[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Karen, I did not say that the only purpose of the dropped noseband was to steady the bit. I wasn't trying to be dishonest as you seem to imply. I was commenting on the difference in RELEASE between a bit with and without the dropped noseband. Besides keeping the horse's mouth shut, it does steady the bit and hold it. However the noseband doesn't have to be tight and I am not advocating for tight nosebands. I'm not necessarily a proponent for dropped nosebands, Sometimes I use one and sometimes I don't. I don't se it as cruel in the way that I use one. CJ [moderator's note: please use email list netiquette when posting to the list, by deleting the previous post from the bottom, or only quoting a line from the previous post and putting your response below that quote; thanks]
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Keepers also put pressure on the poll. My question was not about the purpose of a dropped noseband, but about the issue Janice raised about release. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Janice, You state that the horse never gets release with a dropped noseband. Are you saying that the horse feels no release when the pressure on the reins (thus the bit and mouth) is softened? I thought about what you said, and realized that the horse doesn't ever feel complete release even if there is no nose band. The bit is still in the corners of the mouth and across the tongue. When you are riding a horse there is always pressure on his back, and there is pressure on his sides even if your leg is draped softly on his sides. I don't see that one can ever give total release when riding. Why do you feel that a dropped noseband is inherently cruel? Are using keepers on a full cheek bit cruel too? I don't see how just holding or steadying the bit in the horse's mouth is more cruel than using a bit at all. If you can explain it in a scientific way on the mechanics of dropped vs no dropped, I would reconsider my opinion. Facts, though, not opinion or emotion, are needed for your argument. [moderator's note: please use email list netiquette when posting to the list, by deleting the previous post from the bottom, or only quoting a line from the previous post and putting your response below that quote; thanks]
[IceHorses] Was Huggin Update, Monday 7/2, NOT GOOD...now fund raising
I am willing to donate 15% of the sale price of the Stubben Benni's Harmony Comfort Saddle II, size 32, brown, almost new, if it sells by 8/15. I am asking $1500. They sell for over $2300 new. If you are interested in the saddle, please mention my donation offer on this list. Christine
[IceHorses] Stubben saddle for sale
I bought a barely used Stubben Benni Harmony Comfort II size 32 (wide) a few weeks ago, and find it doesn't fit my gelding as well as I (and he) would like. It is ebony (a very nice brown), has a quilted seat. Includes fittings. Pictures available. Asking $1550. E-mail for details at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Christine
Re: [IceHorses] Opinions on lunging?
> did i miss something? is that a known problem of geisli's? > --vicka I was recently advised that he had some atrophy of his topline muscles. About that time I realized his saddle was not fitting him well at all-really pushing down on his withers. I did see an example of the problem at some saddle fitting website, and the picture did look like his back. I don't know which came first-poor saddle fit causing back muscles to drop and narrow his wither area, or if the saddle doesn't fit because of the muscles atrophying. Anyway, it's not serious but should be dealt with before it gets worse. CJ
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Question about saddle fit
I can see why your favorite picture is so. He looks gorgeous! Nice picture of you too, but I would prefer to see you wearing a helmet (not to start an argument!) Christine
Re: [IceHorses] Opinions on lunging?
My goals are to rebuild his atrophied muscles, develop better ability for bending and flexing, develop better balance and self-carriage, and develop overall fitness and stamina for 1-3 hour trail rides. Someone should lunge ME so I can reach the same goals for my body :) CJ
Re: [IceHorses] Opinions on lunging?
Thank you. It's quite inspiring! I wish there were more hours (leisure, not work) in the day! I will start with lunging exercises as I have the book, the equipment, and basic skills. CJ
Re: [IceHorses] Opinions on lunging?
Thanks! I have the book but have never read it. Guess it's time to open it up! CJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you like to read CJ? I'd recommend a good book on longeing exercises. Here's one link where you can purchase it: http://www.moondance-store.com/category.aspx?CategoryID Longeing (or lunging) done properly is a great training tool. Just chasing them wround just gives you both a little more exercise. Nancy
[IceHorses] Opinions on lunging?
Geisli could benefit from work without a saddle/rider right now. I do not have access to a roundpen so my options are to lunge him or chase him around the arena. Although I could benefit from the chasing around LOL, I think he would do more productive work if he is working at a more steady pace than fits and starts from me chasing. What are people's thoughts on lunging appropriately? My NH training strongly discouraged lunging. Karen, I did go to the Balance saddle website and it was helpful. Thanks! CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Question about saddle fit
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's a photo of my horse's back the day we bought him. Any guess on > his saddle? The tree imprint was clear on his back where there was no > muscle. He's a very broad horse now with a healthy back, but I don't > ahve current photos of him. I couldn't view pictures because I wasn't on individual mail. I just changed over so I can view pics people post to the list. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Question about saddle fit
> http://www.aboutthehorse.com/secure-web/html/saddles.shtml > Trish Haven't hit 200 lbs yet, but it's too close for comfort! I forgot about Dave Genadek. I had one of his first "Ladies First" and I loved it. I sold it though becuase it was too heavy for me to get it up on my 16 hh QH with my shoulder replacement. I could manage a cordura endurance saddle. What a great thought. I do like the security of the front pommels for going down steep hills. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Question about saddle fit
> Is is an English style saddle that you prefer to ride in? If not, you > may wish to check out Dave Genedek's site and the Cordura endurance > saddle. He gives great measuring directions. > http://www.aboutthehorse.com/secure-web/html/saddles.shtml > Trish Haven't hit 200 lbs yet, but it's too close for comfort! I forgot about Dave Genadek. I had one of his first "Ladies First" and I loved it. I sold it though becuase it was too heavy for me to get it up on my 16 hh QH with my shoulder replacement. I could manage a cordura endurance saddle. What a great thought. I do like the security of the front pommels for going down steep hills. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Question about saddle fit
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm not sure I understood what you said about the fit of the Wintec... is it > sitting too low with a medium wide gullet? I've had a good many Icelandics Right now I have the blue one-medium wide. It seems to be wide enough but too low in the back. Envision the air bladders defating so the seat pushes down within an inch of the spine. That is how it looks. Maybe it actually needs to be wider in the front to level it out? I think I will try the red (wide). I don't have a white one but can get one if needed. > > Are you aware that a saddle that is too tight will cause muscle atrophy? Yes, I think Judy pointed to website recently and I have to admit, my horse's back looks alot like the picture. I think my leather saddle is too wide because it seems to fit down too far in front and pinches him under the stirrup bar. Also I have felt I was sliding forward before. The worst part for my comfort is that I feel like I am sitting on my right "cheek" Like I would if the saddle was pulled off center to the left. I step into the right stirrup in hopes of aligning it, but people observing me from behind will tell me it is already straight. of I know I can't compare width from one saddle to another brand since wide in one may be wider or narrower in a "wide" in another brand. > Poke around on this website: http://www.balanceinternational.com Thanks, I will check it out! A horse will frequently "grow" in the width needed as he builds muscles. How did you get the saddle to fit yout horse while she was building muscle? Thanks for the input. I may have to try a Sensation after all. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Question about saddle fit
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, pippa258 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Have you tried a Sensation? Many of us have ordered more than one as > they have worked so well and are reasonable in price. I haven't tried one. It's treeless, correct? I still rely on my saddle for balance (though I'm thinking it may actually be a crutch, )and I am overweight so am concerned that a treeless saddle would not spread my weight over a large enough area. Should I have these concerns? CJ
[IceHorses] Question about saddle fit
The saddle I have been using on Geisli has got to go-it fits neither of us. So I pulled out my Wintec CAIR dressage saddle to see if adjusting the gullet would help. I thought that it had the wide gullet plate when I tried it on him, but it had the medium. No surprise it just perched on him with that. Using the wintect measuring device, it indicated that he needed the medium wide, which I had. I changed the gullet plate over to the medium wide. Here's the situation-it fits him much better at the withers and down the panels in the front. I think he has lost some muscling along the topline as he isn't as level as I remember-probably from lack of work and the other saddle being too wide. It sits low in the back. When I sit in the saddle, there is about a finger's breadth between the saddle and spine. There are 3 things I think I can do until I can get a saddle fitter to look at it. I do think if some flocking was added it would raise it up enough-not sure what that will do to the seat for me though. I don't need to be encouraged to sit on my crotch more than I tend to do ;) The info with the saddle says that flocking can be added to adjust the saddle. The air bladders cannot be modified with more or less air but the saddle has points where flocking can be inserted between the seat and air bladder. I can use a riser pad. I know this is not a long term solution. If I do that, any suggestions on what would be kindest to his back? Use it the way it is, since it isn't touching his back. Watch for signs of any discomfort. Don't use it at all, which presents me with what shall I use. There is a saddle fitter coming to my area in May-it seems like a long way off. Suggestions? Thanks. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Christopher
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, susan cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Well, Christine, I have not seen you participate in the "actual discussions and idea exchanges" and there are lots of them. I have actually never seen you post or this Christopher for that matter. Christopher got what was coming to him with his obviously ignorant post. I think he is a troll, are you? What do you mean by a troll? I don't live under a bridge and I'm not that short. :) Does the fact I bought my gelding from Gudmar, and have actually met and spoken with him make me a troll. If so, Grrr or whatever trolls say! As far as participating in discussions, I read the posts of interest to me. If I don't have anything new to add, I don't feel the need to add my 2 cents. As far as some of the topics go, I have no knowledge or experience-ice tolting, treeless saddles. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not my icy is or should be called a pony or horse. Frankly, I think pony is more endearing and have always referred to my horese as ponies, regardless of size or DNA. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Gaiting At Liberty and Loose Rein
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > tinajoyce said: > > > My gelding is a tolt machine-no shoes, no boots, and tolts best on a > > loose rein! He came with regular shoes. We reset them at the first > > trim then left him barefoot for the winter. He is tolting the same as > > he did with shoes. > > >>>Great! It would be wonderful to see pictures of his tolt on a loose > >>>rein! > > >>>Can we see pictures of both horses gaiting? Maybe some video? <<<< > > Christine, don't forget us! We'd love to see pictures and video of your > horse tolting! > > > Judy > http://icehorses.net > http://clickryder.com I don't have access to a video camera, and I don't think gaits can really be appreciated or evaluated from one or two still shots. Besides I really don't want to have cricism heaped on me and my horse. We don't look perfect, he carries his head higher and more vertically than I would like. We are working on that. When you must work for a living and board your horse, and you live in a northeast state where it is dark after 4 PM, footing is icy, snowy, bitterly cold and windy, etc. it is difficult to ride often enough to make much progress in fitness and self-carriage, until better weather arrives. You will need to take my word for it for now. Several people have commented when watching him and me tolt about him tolting on a loose rein. He, in fact, tolts better on a loose rein as he really doesn't appreciate tight contact on his mouth. He tolts at liberty too, as well as trot. I was happy to see him trot under saddle today, which has been hard to get. He probably would trot more readily if I had a round pen. He will trot on the lunge line but I will lunge him only for very short periods on perfect footing. I don't really like lunging because I believe it teaches the horse to tune you out. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Christopher
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, pippa258 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Christine wrote: read this list now only to see who they are ripping apart now. > What sort of psychological disorder is it when someone only stays with > something to see "ripping apart"? This could lead you to experience > PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) so might want to be careful! > > Trish Trish, Your point is well taken. Certainly a poor choice of words on my part. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Christopher
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "ToltallyICE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If this is what this list is going to be reduced to I've had enough. I agree with you, Cheryl. I have never been on a list, or even associated with a group of people, with such open hostility. It could be a very helpful and productive list if there were actual discussions and idea exchanges instead of personal attacks. Personal attacks appear to be the method used here to discourage anything other than what a few people see as THE WAY. If you don't swallow the whole thing without a question, you are damned to a terrible fate! All I've got to say is, when people have to attack others to prove their point, they don't have anything else to say to prove their point. If you are familiar with psychology at all, this list seems to be dominated by "borderline personality" disordered members. If you look up what that means, I think you will agree. I read this list now only to see who they are ripping apart now. Judy will allow them to keep at it, so she must approve. I expect I will be told to "cool it" or get removed from the list. Whatever! My blood pressure would be better served be involved elsewhere anyway. Christine
[IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
--- > I'm kinda curious if I missed some e-mails, but since I noticed this > phenomenon once before, I don't think I did. Did anyone criticize Gudmar? > When did his name come up? I BELIEVE that Vicka brought him up this time. > Can someone explain to me why a few people always get so defensive about > Gudmar, when he's not even been mentioned? > > -- Judy's note questioning Vicka about the horses at Gudmar's barn re tolting at liberty, on a loose rein, and shoes was clear that she was questioning him. There is so much criticism of anything from Iceland on this list. I wanted to raise my hand to say my experience is different. Maybe Gudmar is an exception to the "rules" here. The world is not black and white, either good or evil, and not one person, or one newsgroup, has all the answers. Perhaps some of us wouldn't be "defensive" if we didn't get pounced on any time we offered our opinion or different point of view. It's interesting to compare the number of members on this group with the actual number of people who contribute to the list-it's a handful of people. Ever wonder why so few do? This group is like a private little sorority. Those on the "inside" appear to be pointing to us and saying, poor things, they just aren't enlightened like us. We'll let them in when they agree with us. That's all I have to say. You can say any snotty thing you want. CJ
[IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many of his horses gait at liberty? How many gait on a loose rein? I bought a gelding from Gudmar about the same time Vicka bought hers. My gelding is a tolt machine-no shoes, no boots, and tolts best on a loose rein! He came with regular shoes. We reset them at the first trim then left him barefoot for the winter. He is tolting the same as he did with shoes. I guess you will probably say he must be an exception to the rule, huh?
