RE: [IceHorses] Re: tolt-was Bits and Leverage
>>> I don't really buy that all Icelanders define "tolt" as all easy gaits. I heard Gudmar at the Equine Affaire telling the audience that "tolt" is an even 4 beat gait, "one, two, three, four". How would that fit into this? I'm pretty darned sure I've heard him mention the "single foot support phase" too - maybe on the Rick Lamb interview? That audio doesn't seem to still be available for me to check any more though. As far as dealing with Icelanders on import issues, etc...somehow I've managed to accumulate 19 Icelandic's on my farm (plus the five I've sold) without ever having imported a horse. A good many Icelandic horses in this country are second, third, maybe even fifth or sixth generation North American, and a lot of the imports are transferred from American to American. They are very much North American horses now - they couldn't go back to Iceland if anyone wanted to take them back, because of Icelandic law. Anyone have any numbers...? I'd bet there are a lot more domestic-born Icelandic's in the USA by now than imports...and that percentage will probably keep increasing. Not to mention the approximately 500,000 TWH alone in the USA...plus RMH, Saddlebreds, Spotted Saddle Horses, KMH, MFT, McCurdy's Tigers, Peruvians, Paso Finos...and who knows how many grade gaited horses and mules. I'd bet there are at least 1,000,000, if you add in all of the grade mixes. Out of 1,000,000 gaited horses right here in my own country, maybe 3000 of which are Icelandics, I'm not so worried what a few of the quarter million Icelandic-speaking people call the gaits. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[IceHorses] Re: tolt-was Bits and Leverage
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >it is > not enough for us to say "well, we've re-defined this icelandic term to > mean this other thing in english"; that will only lead to miscommunication. > > --vicka (about 2500 miles from me to reykjavik; > 3000 from here to california) > Ok, say we accept this premise, that we should use the Icelandic term "tolt" to mean all easy gaits. What if someone wants to import an Icelandic horse and wants to know *exactly* what gaits the horse is showing, how will we know? What if that is important to someone? I think it's important that we define gaits so that we are able to name the differences. I don't really buy that all Icelanders define "tolt" as all easy gaits. I heard Gudmar at the Equine Affaire telling the audience that "tolt" is an even 4 beat gait, "one, two, three, four". How would that fit into this? Kim
RE: [IceHorses] Re: tolt-was Bits and Leverage
*i* have to talk to icelanders to talk about my horse. y'all are some very fine people, but you're not here to tell me your terms for his gaits, and neither is anybody else who has the least clue what they are doing. so it's me and the icelandic speakers here in my little world, and that's where i have to live and communicate. As someone who worked on gaits virtually alone for years, I take issue with your use of the phrase "have to." I don't buy that anyone HAS to use any particular trainer these days, not that anyone ever did, but especially not with all the convenient multi-media resources we have today. We are so spoiled these days...if I'd stood in line last night, I could new and valid gait info this morning on an iPhone - a PHONE! I don't know what Icelander trainers you are using locally. Maybe they are fine - maybe they are wonderful even. If you have a really good trainer, who coincidentally happens to be Icelandic, that's great. But, no one HAS to use any genre or nationality of trainer, nor any particular trainers, no matter what breed of horse they have, or what discipline you are pursuing. No one HAS to use a dressage instructor who uses practices that they are comfortable with, nor use Big Lick trainers - we can be as picky as we choose to be, and we can choose the trainers that we DO find helpful - by taking lessons, clinics, via their websites, via their books, ... In fact, 20 years ago, I didn't HAVE to use any of the local "gaited horse trainers" that I was suspicious of - and I didn't. And gosh, 20 years ago, there weren't the wealth of books and videos that we have at our disposal now, there was no Internet, so certainly no yahoo groups. No digital cameras - heck, camcorders weren't even that common then - we didn't get one until we'd had horses a couple of years.And yet, even in my primitive pre-internet, pre-camcorder, pre-RFD-TV state, paranoid of inadvertently following a Big Lick trainer, I managed to learn something about gaits. And I often think how terribly much easier and faster it would be today. Oh, the possibilities we are fortunate to have now! There are multiple yahoo lists about gaited horses, including the two big ones that Judy owns - and there is TONS of info in the archives of those lists. Brenda Imus' book, "Gaits of Gold", isn't my favorite by a long shot (but I really can't stand her sales pitches) but it's been out, what? Maybe 10-12 years? I've never seen Larry Whitesell in person, but I have his videos - they certainly look like they have some good, solid info on them. David Lichman has a set of tapes, not so terribly in-depth for the pure study of gaits, but with some clues for integrating Natural Horsemanship into gaited horse breeds. And then there is the "bible" of gaits, the pure study of GAITS, Lee Ziegler's Easy-Gaited Horses, plus several wonderful videos from Liz Graves. There's a guy in Colorado that I can't think of his name right now, but he has some good articles on his website - and I'm sure there are other more local/regional trainers that are good, as well as some who aren't so good. Gaited horses may not be as common in all parts of the country as they are in my neck of the woods, but I know that they are all over the country now. Funny though, that some people still feel that Icelandic's gaits somehow aren't like those of other gaited horses... but GAITS ARE GAITS. There are plenty of resources for solid gait information today - available for people like us like to read it all, digest what feels right and throw away what doesn't make sense for us. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: tolt-was Bits and Leverage
On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 02:02:47PM -, kim morton wrote: > I'm not worried about that at all:), that would be left up to the > Icelanders, not us. Language changes, and that is a fact, otherwise > who knows what language we all would be speaking. I think we are > just talking about which terms WE are going to use here, and how we > will define them, not prescribing which terms Icelanders will be > using, right? I'm not getting that we are trying to tell Icelanders > what to do when it comes to this. *i* have to talk to icelanders to talk about my horse. y'all are some very fine people, but you're not here to tell me your terms for his gaits, and neither is anybody else who has the least clue what they are doing. so it's me and the icelandic speakers here in my little world, and that's where i have to live and communicate. let us also keep in mind that many people new to the icelandic breed are also still dealing with icelanders, for import and information, and knowing what they mean is important for communicating with them. it is not enough for us to say "well, we've re-defined this icelandic term to mean this other thing in english"; that will only lead to miscommunication. --vicka (about 2500 miles from me to reykjavik; 3000 from here to california)
