Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I just ride, and let them figure out what lead they are on? << Me too!! When I took a clinic last summer, we were cantering circles, and the instructor told me I was on the wrong lead, and I replied, "that's her problem, if she is uncomfortable, she will change leads" (meaning the horse). I don't show, so I don't care which lead she is on. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/ Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
> > So now I am about 99% trail rider. I still want my horses to bend around my > leg in order that my knee is not banged into a tree trunk on our narrow > forest trails. I want him/her to do nice upward and downward transitions > because they keep us both safe. For instance, we're trotting (or gaiting > actually) forward and there's something dangerous in the trail. I still > appreciatet a nice halt. I like to half pass my horse over onto the track > I want to use on wider trails. Or maybe move Tosca's butt sideways when I > feel like she is about to "lose" it with the Arab colt who is being ponied > beside her. > i think we do all that, but not in an "aware" way... Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
I dont know it just seems "hard" to me, complicated! From the saddle, I cant tell what foot is stepping on the ground, and I dont really understand why it matters. Altho I do know someone who has a bad back from a fall when she says her horse changed leads unexpectedly? that sounds funny to me. I just ride, and let them figure out what lead they are on? And I dont canter much except Jaspar and I just let him figure it out. I love the sidepassing as a fun thing to make Tivar do... and the spanish walk, that was a "trick" i thought I would try. But for the life of me I cant figure out stuff like "on the forehand" or understand what purse it would serve me to know that... Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
I see it as VERY applicable to my world though, the lower ends. Me too! I never got beyond the very lower levels of dressage, but I really loved the communication and bonding it gave me and my horse. Only in dressage have I ever experienced the feeling that my horse was absolutely tuned to the smallest closing of my hand or a change in the tension in the muscle in my calf. Of course, I actually had muscles in my calves then. So now I am about 99% trail rider. I still want my horses to bend around my leg in order that my knee is not banged into a tree trunk on our narrow forest trails. I want him/her to do nice upward and downward transitions because they keep us both safe. For instance, we're trotting (or gaiting actually) forward and there's something dangerous in the trail. I still appreciatet a nice halt. I like to half pass my horse over onto the track I want to use on wider trails. Or maybe move Tosca's butt sideways when I feel like she is about to "lose" it with the Arab colt who is being ponied beside her. We had quite a ride yesterday as we accompanied Bev out. She was riding a 16 h Anglo Arab and ponying a five year old who is still quite a handful. When we got back to the barn she commented on Tosca, "She acts like she's been doing this all her life." All the drama of the youngster coping with being ponied down steep and slippery (bad trail choice) single track trails didn't seem to bother her a bit. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
>>> See? that stuff so mystifies and baffles me and seems so complicated >>> and unrelated to what I actually DO that I tend to tune out and ignore >>> it, so thats probably why he did not appeal to me. And Janice, that always seems odd to me when you say that, and I've heard you say it before. Why do you feel it's so unrelated to what you do? I'm serious, very curious. After all, you wanted to teach your horse to do the Spanish Walk, right? And you were very interested in having Shirley show you how to get Tivar to sidepass, right? (She's generally not the biggest fan of sidepass per se...) You do like to have horses trained that you can open gates on the trail, without having to dismount, right? And you were interested in the stuff that Liz showed for honing gaits...? That's exactly why I was vaguely interested in Dennis Reis - but, like Laree, I'm not sure I got an accurate impression of what he's really about. He is one of the few who seemed at that time able to blend the worlds. I've never wanted to compete in dressage, but the communication, the finesse required for the sport has always fascinated and astounded me...but I don't have the patience or interest to pursue it. I see it as VERY applicable to my world though, the lower ends. Some knowledge of the progression of the training required, the biomechanics behind the correct training - it all adds up to help me train my horses for trail - albeit using only a very low-end of dressage - but it also helps me make informed decisions about the long-term soundness implications of certain training practices being hawked by some unscrupulous trainers... Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
I think he developed confidence. I saw several shows on RFDTV about a year or two ago, a series where he had a long training school thing over a period of a week or so at his farm or facility or something. Each episode was very intense in one particular area and there was a lot of personal interraction with participants. He was very relaxed and casual and personable in those. Like a normal person i think. But again, the things he taught just didnt appeal to me. Like changing leads :) Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
> > One Dennis Reis episode I saw that knocked my socks off - and I REALLY wish > I had it on video - was where he explained SO clearly the difference between > leg yields and shoulder-ins. He demonstrated the difference himself (no > horse), by showing the difference in the way his body was bent compared to > the way he was looking, and I did the same while I watched him do it. See? that stuff so mystifies and baffles me and seems so complicated and unrelated to what I actually DO that I tend to tune out and ignore it, so thats probably why he did not appeal to me. Also he talks too much saying dumb stuff, and when I saw him he did everything in a roundpen, then moved on to the outside area and rode around the green/problem horse at a gallop while everyone cheered. Some people capture us, our imaginations, I think its what we are ready to learn at the time. Some people, even parelli, on tv, seems sorta arrogant and showbiz, in person he blew me away, he made me feel moved and humble, him and Linda both. Gawani pony boy, I had the same impression as renee, Gawani PHONEY Boy, then I saw him in person and he blew me away. He has this absolutely STUPID zen hippie persona that turns me off, a pretty boy thing, but in person, at jacksonville equestrian center, he worked with a problem horse, and it was almost like whoever got the problem horse for him was trying to make him look like a fool, either that or kill him. While he was talking to the audience the horse was behind him circling and behaving aggressively, which he ignored, until the horse actually stood on his rear legs and HOPPED across the roundpen toward him STRIKING at him in a spectacular manner. The horse was not green or nervous, the horse was actually vicious. Was attacking him. to KILL. At one point he went y and ran outside the roundpen and nobody was laughing. and then... his phoney boy facade dissolved and he went back into the roundpen and something magical happened where he did not look up at the audience again for about a half hour, he was so focused on that horse, starting with approaching him in a mesmerizingly calm, soothing manner, approach and retreat, it was honestly magical and in about 45 minutes he had a horse that had been trying to kill him eating out of the palm of his hand. calm and mannerly. and he said thats it, know when to stop for the day, and I respected him for that too. I think maybe sometimes people are good but get off on the wrong marketing idea. and it turns some off. But if you think about it, he must be better than most people working with horses because marketing alone isnt gonna get anybody ANYWHERE with horses... jmo Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
From what I understood from others that have seen him in the past is that he has definitely improved in the showmanship aspect of his presentation. They said he used to be very boring but he was very charismatic when I saw him - wonder where he went to learn that. I don't have a clue. Since I wrote that first post, I've been thinking about that very thing...maybe there's a niche that Janice could fill? :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
> > That's funny, because that wasn't my impression of him at all. Now, mind > you, I haven't had RFD-TV in a couple of years - Please remember this was an expo, not a clinic, so I'm not sure if it was representative of his overall work and I only went one day and not the second - I had never seen him before that day. The only work he did was with the two horses and almost all of it was in the round pen. I am not saying that I would never go to one of his clinics but I wasn't blown away either. I do think he had some good things to offer and if the proof is in the pudding - the finished product of his students and their horses was very positive. What I DO > remember was that he was one of the few natural horsemen type clinicians I'd > seen that seemed to have a genuine understanding of dressage, at least > enough to explain some things clearly, and how to apply NH to the sport. They did say in his bio at the beginning that he did study dressage for a couple of years - at least one year that's all he did - daily > Good theater - that's what it boils down to too often isn't it?Of > course, I shouldn't lecture on this subject. The other thing I remember > about Dennis Reis is that he is certainly one who sure needs a dash of > "theater"! >From what I understood from others that have seen him in the past is that he has definitely improved in the showmanship aspect of his presentation. They said he used to be very boring but he was very charismatic when I saw him - wonder where he went to learn that. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story - Dennis Reis
>>> I came away from the expo with mixed feelings, too. Good points are >>> that none of his horses or students horses are ridden with a bit and >>> there was lots of bridleless riding. His horses and his students horses >>> seemed to be willing, happy workers. He is a round pen , join up kind of >>> trainer. That's funny, because that wasn't my impression of him at all. Now, mind you, I haven't had RFD-TV in a couple of years - our valued shade trees kept growing over our satellite dish, to the point that we were going to have to cut a big tree to get reliable signal, so we switched to cable. I used to watch him occasionally, and he intrigued me - but it might have been just the subject matter he was covering at the time. During the episodes I watched, I don't remember him using a round-pen at all - maybe he did, but it wasn't THE focus like it seems to be with Monty Roberts. What I DO remember was that he was one of the few natural horsemen type clinicians I'd seen that seemed to have a genuine understanding of dressage, at least enough to explain some things clearly, and how to apply NH to the sport. This was about the time that Linda Parelli was starting to talk about Fluidity, but for a good ten years prior, I'd been working with Shirley as we both delved into NH, trying to figure out ways to apply it to dressage - she is a long-time student of serious dressage, more classical in intent, although she has competed to some pretty serious levels in the past. Up until 5-8 years ago, we were pretty much doing our own thing trying to blend NH and dressage - Shirley doing much of the blending of course, and me trying to keep up as I was learning the basics of both. One Dennis Reis episode I saw that knocked my socks off - and I REALLY wish I had it on video - was where he explained SO clearly the difference between leg yields and shoulder-ins. He demonstrated the difference himself (no horse), by showing the difference in the way his body was bent compared to the way he was looking, and I did the same while I watched him do it. If ever I had any doubts that shoulder-in is indeed much more difficult than leg-yields, going through the motions myself (the best a two-legged creature can) really made the point that books and demos had never truly conveyed to me. I think about that episode often now, since so many Icelander trainers talk about "shoulder-in to get tolt", especially when what I see them doing is RARELY really shoulder-in, and is usually some sort of bastardized leg-yield/shoulder-in/yanking-around being done in very poor form. >>> I think this horse could have been better turned around with clicker >>> training/ Parelli, etc, but that would have taken too long for it to be >>> good theater. Good theater - that's what it boils down to too often isn't it?Of course, I shouldn't lecture on this subject. The other thing I remember about Dennis Reis is that he is certainly one who sure needs a dash of "theater"! That's one reason I was never sure how much I liked him. And I'm pretty serious about this stuff - I can't really imagine how he ever developed the following he has developed. So, maybe he DID use a round pen a lot and maybe I just slept through those parts! Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Another Success Story
"stubborn, willful,> ignoring me, giving me the hoof"< boy, you aren't kidding, those ears were cranking around to you constantly, what a good job you have done. And what a hot number, grey and pink are the prettiest combo together. My young mare, also 5 years, is very similar, and I am still working with her in short rides with specific horses to get a more desired action, she bucks when I won't let her go in front, won't let her pick the speed, won't let her stand and play statue, etc...but we didn't get this a year ago, so we are just going slow until this attitude passes and she becomes happy to go out with me, then I will ride her alone, but not until. She is too willful as you put it and has tissy fits when she doesn't get her way. She is a good girl and loves me on the ground. I am taking it slow so it doesn't become too daunting to get through to her under saddle and nothing too stressful. She is such a sweety otherwise. You keep up the good work and keep me updated, it is reassuring to know someone with a good outcome in a short period of time. Jeannette
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How was the dennis reis thing Laree, can you give us a report? I have > mixed feelings about him on RFDTV. This wasn't really a clinic - just an expo tour. We found out too late to go that he does a training session the day before with his students that anyone can go to - that would have been interesting. I came away from the expo with mixed feelings, too. Good points are that none of his horses or students horses are ridden with a bit and there was lots of bridleless riding. His horses and his students horses seemed to be willing, happy workers. He is a round pen , join up kind of trainer. While I think that can be used to good effect on a few horses, I think it's way overused by these guys because it makes good theater in a short amount of time. He worked with one horse that I think definitely benefitted from the method and one that I think there was a better way for her. The horse that he first worked with was a gelding that still thought he was a stallion. You will see this on his show because they were filming episodes during the expo. This horse was 8 years old, had been passed from home to home becasue in his transitions from walk to trot and trot to canter he would put on a bucking show that only the best of cowboys could ride. I think this was learned behavior that got him what he wanted - being put up. I think this was the last resort for this horse before he was going to the glue factory. Many people gave up on this horse but his current owner really wanted to work through this and searched for a better way to get through to this horse - Kudos to him. It was a little rough for some but I think for this horse it was what he needed at the time. The other horse was a mare that would suffer greatly from separation anxiety. The people bought her and she was being used in a kids riding program - underweight, wormy, etc. They got home, got her healthy and in good weight and she became a horse they couldn't handle. Part of it was the new owners fault because she set no boundaries but mostly that this horse needed to partner with her owner rather than the other horses. I think this horse could have been better turned around with clicker training/ Parelli, etc, but that would have taken too long for it to be good theater. He worked with both these horses twice during the day and towards the end of the second session with the mare, I really wanted to go down and stop it because I think she was really stressed and overloaded. The owners of that mare will have their problem solved but at what cost to the horse. So, again, he wasn't by far the worst I have seen but he wasn't the best. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story
How was the dennis reis thing Laree, can you give us a report? I have mixed feelings about him on RFDTV. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story
I now have > a partner in Whisper, and while we are not a perfect > team yet, we are well on our way. Way to go, Susan!. I went to a Dennis Reis expo yesterday and one thing he said was that you should be a partner with your horse on the ground before you ever get on their back. I think that's hard for all of us becasue we wnat to RIDE but it's well worth the effort as you have found out. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story
. > > understanding advice from Robyn paid off. I now > have > a partner in Whisper, and while we are not a perfect > team yet, we are well on our way. Here is a video > of > my ride from yesterday. I named it "Ears to You" > because I noticed while editing how much her ears > are > on me, and they never were before. > I love your video. Maybe I need to give more effort to Dagur. Whisper is awesome. I did miss you when you were off line for a while, Good luck Lorraine __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] Another Success Story
wow susan that is so awesome! She sounds like Tivar in some ways, almost a bossy dominant way, but now maybe she is still bossy and dominant but wanting to take care of you, her responsibility now. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
