Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
On Wed, Sep 12, 2007 at 04:18:02PM -0700, Judy Ryder wrote: > I would like to see a video of what the icelandic-style trainers believe is > a trotty tolt. > > Does anyone have one? wasn't video, but i think some of the multi-gaited stjarni pix i posted awhile back showed it pretty clearly. (you may remember them as "fox trot" or whatever -- i recall there being considerable disagreement on the list for posted terms -- but my (american-born, icelandic-trained) photographer called that "trotty tolt" (brokk-tolt). > That's limiting, tho, for those Icelandic Horses that are conformed for, and > naturally fox trot, which is a super gait, very smooth, and easy on the > horse. would you consider stjarni such a horse? > We can do it! We operate on the 100 Monkey Theory :-). uhh, this is the thing about monkeys and food-washing in seawater, right? it's a myth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey http://www.uhh.hawaii.edu/~ronald/HMP.htm --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
>Do you think that being a gaited horse, that the people separate it from >regular horses, and think these things are OK for a gaited horse? Possibly. They are not, in general, used to gaited horses. But we even said - "is it OK for a 6ft 200lb man to use a 6 inch shanked curb bit with a flash noseband on a 13hh pony on an enclosed track" - and they still didn't get it. It's an ongoing discussion though. > >Is it all the same stuff, tho? I mean, are they teaching the kids natural >horsemanship, or about regular horses and equine biomechanics, etc.? or the >same icelander-style riding and training? > They seem to do all sorts. There's the Youth Cup, which is basically just a normal Icelandic competition for kids, but at the Youth Camp they are much more eclectic. They've had NH demos, driving, orienteering, lessons from people like Bruno Podlech (of no tack fame) and so on. So it's not all tearing around an oval track. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
> Trouble is, that's virtually the entire board of the IHS. They have > almost all come from "big horse" backgrounds, and in my opinion should > already know better. I think at the board meeting I will push for FEIF > to come into line with the FEI rules for bitting etc Do you think that being a gaited horse, that the people separate it from regular horses, and think these things are OK for a gaited horse? > I agree in principal, but would say that competition riding is only > one part of FEIF. They also do a lot for kids, leisure riders, > breeders etc all of which does not have such a high profile. Is it all the same stuff, tho? I mean, are they teaching the kids natural horsemanship, or about regular horses and equine biomechanics, etc.? or the same icelander-style riding and training? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
On 9/13/07, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I try not to be defeatist, but sometimes it feels like pushing a > boulder up a mountain. We have a Board meeting in a couple of weeks - > maybe we'll be able to work something out then. Fancy putting together > a nice presentation on the evils of drop/flash nosebands with curb > bits? > > Mic > it cant be as bad as the walking horse big lick industry mic, they actually offer people money to shut up and go away, threaten lives, offer promises of blue ribbons in the show ring, organize people in the crowd to boo when certain competitors who wont play along enter the show ring...all this documented. They are like the mafioso. and we stopped them! at least for the WGC show last year! dont lose hope. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:15:38 -0400, you wrote: > We need to involve more people who know more breeds than simply >Icelandic's. Trouble is, that's virtually the entire board of the IHS. They have almost all come from "big horse" backgrounds, and in my opinion should already know better. I think at the board meeting I will push for FEIF to come into line with the FEI rules for bitting etc.> > >I think it's time for us to stand up and say we don't need an international >organization. FEIF is going down a road that is all too embarrassingly >familiar. I agree in principal, but would say that competition riding is only one part of FEIF. They also do a lot for kids, leisure riders, breeders etc all of which does not have such a high profile. > >We don't NEED the Swedes or the Germans or the Icelanders who are into this. >We don't need to be sending money to the FEIF, when this is their focus. If >we cut their funding, that's a start. As I've said before, they honestly won't miss the funding from us "small" countries. FEIF dues are calculated on the number of members of the organisation of the member country, and so far the US and UK are relative minnows.> > >In the USA, the usual percentage I see cited for show riders is something >like 5% of the total riders. That seems about right, across all breeds. I >suspect it's about right for Icelandic horses too, probably across the >world...but how much money is allocated for these events? What else does >FIFO spend money on? > See above. I think over here, a much higher percentage of Icelandic riders do take part in competitions, but then we're not talking high-powered events. To put it in perspective, the judges we had at the show last weekend were able to come at a moment's notice as the show they were meant to be judging was cancelled due to lack of entries. There were less than 100 horse/riders taking part there were a grand total of 30 at the show over here! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
RE: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
Hmmm, I wonder. John, who sometimes appears on this list, and myself,
have tried to get a motion put forward to the delegates assembly calling for
the use of drop or flash nosebands with curb bits to be banned in FIPO
competition. So far, we are the only ones on the Board of Trustees for the
UK who see it as a problem. It's unbelievable, John even sent them that
awful photo from the WC of the rider using a flash noseband (tight) with a
Paso bit.
Yes, and kudos to John for taking those pictures and submitting them. His
photos were so good, so clear, they speak volumes...
t's not even as though the Board members are all serious competition
riders or something If we can't even convince a small group of British
("we're a nation of animal lovers") people, I'm not so sure how it's going
to go with people like the German and Swedish (not to mention Icelandic)
sports riders.
That sounds like it is in the US too...a small group who's so indoctrinated
to the "traditional" stuff that they can't see the forest for the trees.
Within that group, all this stuff is "normal". Looking in from outside
their insulated world, it's shocking. The way I see to change it is to
involve more people who don't see it as "normal" - and I agree, you British
have a long history of taking the humane treatment of animals to a high
level. We need to involve more people who know more breeds than simply
Icelandic's.
I think it's time for us to stand up and say we don't need an international
organization. FEIF is going down a road that is all too embarrassingly
familiar. There is no excuse for any gaited breed to be escalating the
harsh tack that is allowed...there is no need for a horse to use weighted
bell boots...or packing material to give more "lift" to his step...and there
is no excuse for the toes on the Icelandic's to be so long.
We don't NEED the Swedes or the Germans or the Icelanders who are into this.
We don't need to be sending money to the FEIF, when this is their focus. If
we cut their funding, that's a start.
In the USA, the usual percentage I see cited for show riders is something
like 5% of the total riders. That seems about right, across all breeds. I
suspect it's about right for Icelandic horses too, probably across the
world...but how much money is allocated for these events? What else does
FIFO spend money on?
Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
>Does anyone have one?
Good lord no, it's a FAULT. Silly woman! ; )
>talked with the Icelanders, somewhere in the 70's, they came up with : draf
>tolt and brokk tolt.
Both of which mean - guess what? Trotty tolt.
>
>That's limiting, tho, for those Icelandic Horses that are conformed for, and
>naturally fox trot, which is a super gait, very smooth, and easy on the
>horse.
I agree. Also the ones which do a nice stepping pace.
>
>Mic, you are in a perfect position to educate across the pond.
>
Hmmm, I wonder. John, who sometimes appears on this list, and myself,
have tried to get a motion put forward to the delegates assembly
calling for the use of drop or flash nosebands with curb bits to be
banned in FIPO competition. So far, we are the only ones on the Board
of Trustees for the UK who see it as a problem. It's unbelievable,
John even sent them that awful photo from the WC of the rider using a
flash noseband (tight) with a Paso bit.
It's not even as though the Board members are all serious competition
riders or something If we can't even convince a small group of
British ("we're a nation of animal lovers") people, I'm not so sure
how it's going to go with people like the German and Swedish (not to
mention Icelandic) sports riders.
I try not to be defeatist, but sometimes it feels like pushing a
boulder up a mountain. We have a Board meeting in a couple of weeks -
maybe we'll be able to work something out then. Fancy putting together
a nice presentation on the evils of drop/flash nosebands with curb
bits?
Mic
Mic (Michelle) Rushen
---
Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs:
www.solva-icelandics.co.uk
---
"Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Fox Trot
>what you call a "fox trot" they'd just call a "trotty tolt" and work >with as such. >> >>But it's not. > > No, it's not a trotty tolt, it's a fox trot, I would like to see a video of what the icelandic-style trainers believe is a trotty tolt. Does anyone have one? >>>but for an island which > does not actually have a word for fox trot and tends to use tolt as a > cover-all word for any gait which isn't actually hard pace, trotty > tolt is a good compromise. New words are invented every day. So it's not unreasonable that they will start to use fox trot for the actual gait. Way back when Col. Bradbury talked with the Icelanders, somewhere in the 70's, they came up with : draf tolt and brokk tolt. >>>However, it does hold negative connotations > - "it's not "proper" tolt, it's TROTTY tolt" rather than "oh look, > what a super fox trot". That's limiting, tho, for those Icelandic Horses that are conformed for, and naturally fox trot, which is a super gait, very smooth, and easy on the horse. As Icelandics are a breed known for tolt, > rather than fox trot, I can't see this changing among the thousands > who don't read this list. We can do it! We operate on the 100 Monkey Theory :-). It's worked so far! No one should be against learning new stuff! It's beneficial to the horse, also, not to be forced to tolt if he's not conformed to do it. The Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon means that when only a limited number of individuals knows a 'new way', it remains the conscious property of those individuals. However, when one more individual manifests this new awareness, the field is strengthened, a critical mass is reached, and the awareness becomes the conscious property of all. This new awareness is communicated mind to mind. Look what happened with the Sensation Saddle! And natural horsemanship! And bitless riding! It's spreading! Mic, you are in a perfect position to educate across the pond. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
