Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
Anyone know anything about Happy Hoof by Seminole feed?? We just learned that as posse members a local Seminole will give us each a free bag of feed a month. So with both of us being members thats two bags. I was thinking of getting Happy Hoof which is supposed to be low starch low sugar for horses and ponies and mini's prone to obesity and founder. Anyone have any opinions about this? I was thinking of feeding it to my icelandics and donkey only. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
So it isn't the pellets. It is alfalfa itself. I don't like to feed any horse alfalfa. Thanks Judy I know people who say, but they need protein. Is that true? I have my hay analyzed yearly as I buy it from one guy who stores it for me. In general it tends to run a little on the low side for protein (6%) so I mix about 1/2 cup alfalfa soaked pellets (17% protein) in with a little soaked beet pulp (6%), flax supplement and mineral supplement. This puts the amount of protein intake to approx 400 g which is what is recommended for a horse that size. I am supposedly not giving them enough Digestible energy Mcal, but being ponies I figure I am safer to 'underfeed' a little. They do get all the grass hay they can eat but average about 15 pounds each, more when colder than 20 F I checked their weight today and both boys have lost about 30 lbs since Nov., but they came into winter with a little extra padding. They look pretty good -- Anna Southern Ohio
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
I have my hay analyzed yearly as I buy it from one guy who stores it for me. In general it tends to run a little on the low side for protein (6%) so I mix about 1/2 cup alfalfa soaked pellets (17% protein) in with a little soaked beet pulp (6%), flax supplement and mineral supplement. Thanks for the input, Anna. Here's an article about alfalfa by Don Blazer: Blame alfalfa for everything from tying up to navicular, from a calcium/phosphorus imbalance to enteroliths to resistance to training. And you thought alfalfa was the perfect feed for your horse. Your horse thought so too. Well, think again! Alfalfa might just be among the worst things you can feed your horse, even though your horse looks good, has a shiny coat, and loves every stem of the green, sweet hay. Alfalfa is a cattle feed intended to fatten animals for slaughter. When feeding alfalfa to cattle there is no concern with keeping the animal sound and able to work for 20 years or more. Alfalfa, generally, is 18 to 20 per cent protein and often higher. It’s the high protein which is the culprit. A horse’s digestive system has to work extra hard to convert protein to usable energy creating a high body temperature. That’s the first problem. Not too serious, you say. Of course, not. But it is only the beginning. Alfalfa is also very high in calcium and low in phosphorus. Young horses need a calcium/phosphorous ratio of about l.5 to l. Older horses do nicely on a 2 to l ratio, and can stand up to 5 to l calcium to phosphorus. But lots of alfalfa for breakfast and dinner can push those ratios to disastrous proportions if there isn’t another feed in the diet to correct the imbalance. Grain, which is high in phosphorus, low in calcium is nature’s way of balancing the ratio. But lots of horseowners don’t want their horses eating a lot of grain--gives them too much energy--and so there is no diet balancing. Excessive calcium creates the first big series of problems. It all starts with excessive calcium interfering with the function of the parathyroid gland. When the parathyroid gland thinks there is too much calcium available, it shuts down, which in turn disturbs other functions and leads to thumps, muscle cramps, and tying up, all of which can have serious consequences. Excessive calcium can also result in hypothyroid horses, which are plump and shiny, but usually cranky, belligerent, resistant to bending and flexing, very lazy and emotionally unstable. Young horses being conditioned for performance or halter are often plagued by unsoundnesses, as well as training problems, simply because they are physically and emotionally troubled by thyroid or metabolic imbalances nutritionally-induced by alfalfa. Alfalfa can cause numerous training problems seemingly without solutions. Don’t blame your horse or your training techniques; check your feeding program. A calcium/phosphorus imbalance will cause knuckling over and contracted tendons in young horses. Good, rich alfalfa will make young horses grow quickly and often end in epiphysitis, a joint condition which can have long lasting ill effects. High amounts of protein (thanks to alfalfa) when digested, result in an acid condition within the horse. The horse needs to be slightly alkaline. To buffer the acids in the blood, the horse’s body pulls the alkaline minerals from tissue and bone so the heart can continue to function properly. The heart, according to the horse’s body, has a higher priority than ligaments and bones. The result: osselets, spavins and navicular condition. Kidney problems are common in horses which eat a lot of alfalfa. In an effort to get rid of the excess protein in the diet, there is often frequent urination and possible kidney damage. Kidney stones many times are the result of high calcium and high protein in the horse’s diet; thanks to alfalfa. Alfalfa is the only direct link to stones (enteroliths) found in horses. It is very common for horses in California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Utah--states which feed a lot of alfalfa--to have stones. Horses which do not eat alfalfa virtually never have stones. Finally, studies have shown that horses eating mostly alfalfa have a higher incidence of disease than horses on grass hay. In study groups, alfalfa- fed horses had more severe disease symptoms than horses on grass. When taken off the alfalfa, reducing the high amounts of protein, the diseases ended without treatment. If you are feeding alfalfa, in any form, reevaluate your feeding program and consider adding a different roughage. Your horse likes his alfalfa, but he won’t like a calcium/phosphorus imbalance, being hypothyroid, cramping or tying up, having kidney stones or kidney disease, arthritis, osselets, spavins or navicular. He may be unhappy about being taken off alfalfa, but he sure might be a happier, healthier horse who loves to train, compete and enjoy extra years of pain-free exercise. ___ Judy http://iceryder.net
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
I had asked if Alfalfa pellets are bad for Icelandics last week. I heard from someone that Icelandics can't digest them or something. Any answers??? Thanks Hi Lorraine, We have hay cubes made from alfalfa here, not sure I've ever seen alfalfa pellets, except for rabbits. : ) Anyway, I've purchased regular hay with alfalfa in it as well as the hay cubes made with alfalfa My only problem with my horses was it was likely too rich and contributed to waistline problems.Some people report their horses react like ADD kids who get a sugar overload when fed alfalfa. I think my answer would be: Try to stick to grass hay if you can, and go sparingly with the alfalfa pellets / cubes / hay if you can't. Also, with alfalfa hay grown in the western states, there is a danger of increased chances of your horse growing an enterolith in it's colon. Here's a study done at UCDavis about this: http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/VSR/gastrolab/TOPICS.html This does not seem to be a problem (or as big a problem) with alfalfa hay grown elsewhere. I am not sure if this would apply to alfalfa pellets made from hay grown out west as well. Sorry I can't be of more help with your question. Maybe someone else can answer from experience. -- Renee M. in Michigan -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 03/01/2008 5:41 PM
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
I had asked if Alfalfa pellets are bad for Icelandics last week. I heard from someone that Icelandics can't digest them or something. Any answers??? Thanks Sorry for not responding about my experience with alfalfa. I use alfalfa / bermuda grass pellets for treats for clicker training. It's not that the Icelandics can't digest them, it's that the carbs, sugar, and protein are too high in alfalfa, which may have a negative affect on Icelandics in regard to founder, laminitis, insulin resistance, cushings. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had asked if Alfalfa pellets are bad for Icelandics last week. I heard from someone that Icelandics can't digest them or something. Any answers??? Thanks I think they can digest them but don't need that much protein. They do well on low sugar, low protein grass hay. I think that the alfalfa was formulated for dairy cows nutritional needs not horses. That being said, I know there are areas where alfalfa hay and or pellets are most widely available and that some people feed them. I will be happy to hear what others think. Ann
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
It's not that the Icelandics can't digest them, it's that the carbs, sugar, and protein are too high in alfalfa, which may have a negative affect on Icelandics in regard to founder, laminitis, insulin resistance, cushings. So it isn't the pellets. It is alfalfa itself. I don't like to feed any horse alfalfa. Thanks Judy I know people who say, but they need protein. Is that true? Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] I have a question about feed
So it isn't the pellets. It is alfalfa itself. I don't like to feed any horse alfalfa. Thanks Judy I know people who say, but they need protein. Is that true? Sure, horses need protein, but alfalfa has too much for them. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
