RE: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I'll be happy to answer that - I've talked about it on the list many times - BUT, if I do, I'd still like for you to answer the question I asked you first. :) Who is the "they" who said that treeless saddles aren't working?<< Ok, you answered yours, and Cary's riding just doesn 't match up to simple conditioning, so that is maybe why the Sensation is fine for him. The "they" I was referring to was other people in every saddle booth I visited at the Convention. I didn't get their names, and if I did I would not print them without their permission. People there were interested in the flexible saddles and there was always several of us in each booth getting an education on the saddle that was there. When asked what we were riding in now, and how it was working, a huge majority of the people in each booth (different people in each booth, BTW) had treeless, and were looking for more support for longer rides. The majority of these people had every intention of keeping their treeless, but they wanted another option for their horse. To swith out saddles. Now, Karen, please don't take this as treeless bashing. If you read my original post, I specifically said it was not to bash treeless. I plan on keeping mine and I think it is the most comfy saddle I have ever sat in. This is a discussion of other options we Icey people want. It is not to dis you, so please keep your anger in check so we can discuss this without Judy putting an end to it. I have seen posts from people who never post, and I have received private posts from people with questions. It is not who is right and who is wrong, it is about exploring other options. So please don't take it as a slam against you, Carey, or treeless saddles. We have not had many options in the past and treeless was a Godsend to us. Thankfully, the saddle people are listening, and we now have other options. Since endurance people ride so many miles in conditioning and competition, if you want something comfortable for you and your horse, they are the ones to listen to. Plus, many, many Arabs are very short backed and wide, so they have similar problems to Icey people in fitting a saddle. The difference in riding for pleasure and riding endurance, is you may be able to get away with a marginal fit in pleasure riding, but that would NEVER cut the mustard in endurance, so let us listen to whay they say. And of course the treeless list is pro-treeless - that is what the list is for!!! Susan in NV http://desertduty.blogspot.com/ Riding for Breast Cancer Awareness Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
K...if you ride your horse a few days during the week...long slow rides, you could easily do a CTR ride on the weekend. Granted...not endurance, but still a fun ride. Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
There have been times when he can Skjoni have built up to riding as much as 3-4 hours per ride, with maybe 20-25 miles in > a weekend. Okay Karen, I understand that neither you nor Cary has any interest in riding Limited Distance or Endurance, but this is just about the amount of conditioning we give our endurance horses in miles and frequency per week. If they do a competitive ride on a Saturday then they get up to a week's rest. We train in about the way you would condition a human runner, with a schedule that includes long slow days, speed days and climbing days, so this might be harder work than Cary and his horse are doing, but then again, it might not. If he ever goes berserk and wants to try Limited Distance, I'll bet he and his pony would get a nice completion. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
>>> Hi Karen...how many days/hours/miles per week? At what speed is he moving out? Terrain? I think it's great that Senastion is working out for your horses. I still have mine...it's my backup saddle. <;p[] Sure, Raven, I just answered that in another post, even though I've written about it many times before. Now, since I gave my answers, maybe you could help us by giving some details of your conditioning schedule for Huginn. I know you've said that you don't ride in the winter - isn't that right? And your winters in WI are pretty long, right? How do you bring him back to condition each spring without risking injury to him? That's an ongoing problem for many real-world working people. Cary worries about it all the time for Skjoni. Also, how often do you have the chiropractor out for him? Did you ever find a bit that would stop him - don't I remember you asking that question to the list maybe a year ago? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
>>> Just out of curiosity, how many times a week and what is the average number of miles per ride, and what is the weekly average total miles he puts in his Sensation? You don't need to be specific, just thow out, on average the number of days a week he puts more than 8 miles in the Sensation. I'll be happy to answer that - I've talked about it on the list many times - how and when he rides certainly isn't confidential BUT, if I do, I'd still like for you to answer the question I asked you first. :) Who is the "they" who said that treeless saddles aren't working?If they are credible and have valid reasons for their conclusions, I certainly want to know - the last thing I'd ever want to do is hurt my horses. Please don't take this personally, but we should be asking these sorts of questions anytime we hear ANY generalization about horses or horsemanship. You should know me well enough by now to know that I don't take vague statements lightly - be that if some Icelander says that Icelandics can be ridden by large men all day, or if some local horse trader tells me that his for-sale horse is perfect and has no vices, or when Tolt News (or was it the Quarterly?) says that Icelandic horses can't be trained by Natural Horsemanship methods, or if people say that Icelandics don't founder or that they need special trainers and special farriers - all of which we've heard "them" say many times. Can you give me some names of specific people who said this and tell me how they arrived at this conclusion? Some questions that immediately come to my mind that maybe you can answer: Did "they" have vested interests in saying what they did - in other words, do "they" sell saddles, or did "they" have a bad experience with one brand that they never worked through, and thus "they" decided the whole genre is bad? Again, I mean nothing personal here, just the normal "just the facts ma'am" questions we should always ask when we are looking out for our horses. I'm especially prone to ask these type questions when I hear generalizations that don't support what I've seen in my own horses or in others. I don't really think Cary's riding schedule/habits/history is going to either validate or defeat the idea of treeless saddles being used for endurance - he's just one rider out of many treeless riders in the USA. But I CAN cite his experience to point out one data point to conflict with your point that treeless saddles will only works for lightweight riders for maybe less than 8 mile trips. Here goes anyway, fwiw: Cary is 235 pounds, 6'2" and 53 years old. He's as far from "lightweight" as they come, and his horse isn't huge. He's not a distance rider... He couldn't be an endurance rider even if he wanted to (he doesn't) because he simply doesn't have a predictable amount of time to condition his horse. Thus, he has a whole 'nuther set of problems to deal with. How can he keep his horse in condition and not risk injuring him via the "weekend warrior" syndrome? For the past 2-3 months, he's barely ridden, maybe 3-4 times in since Christmas - his work schedule has been horrible, the weather less than ideal, and when I was laid up with flu and pneumonia for 3-4 weeks in January-February, he had to take on the responsibility of feeding/caring for all of the horses. There are, however, times in the spring, summer and fall when health, weather and work realities allow him to ride 2-3, MAYBE 4, times a week. That's about the most he can ride, unless we go on a dedicated "riding vacation." There have been times when he can Skjoni have built up to riding as much as 3-4 hours per ride, with maybe 20-25 miles in a weekend. That is not unusual at all in the non-winter months, and he's hit that peak several times over the two years he's been riding Skjoni in a treeless saddle. It's true that what works on short rides may not work on longer rides...BUT, it's also true that what doesn't work on short rides most certainly won't work on longer rides. Unfortunately for us (but hopefully fortunately for the people we've shared our experiences with), we have spent more time observing saddles that don't work on our horses even for shorter rides, even some we had great expectations for when we first got them. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 3/1/2008 5:41 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
>> Cary weighs 235 pounds. He's no endurance rider, but he's certainly ridden Skjoni for more than eight miles Hi Karen...how many days/hours/miles per week? At what speed is he moving out? Terrain? I think it's great that Senastion is working out for your horses. I still have mine...it's my backup saddle. <;p[] Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention/Raven
--- Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>I will try to get some photos together for you.in a few days (Tuesday).<< Thanks, Raven. I was very dissappointed I did not get to see their saddles in person and sit in them. Same for the FreeNEasy. They were not there, either. Susan in NV http://desertduty.blogspot.com/ Riding for Breast Cancer Awareness Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I know there are people for whom Reactor Panels didn't work for their horses, and who have turned to treeless saddles.<< Yes, there is not one saddle that will work for everybody. I think, for longer distances, people are leaving treeless and looking for something else. That is why there are so many flexible saddles available today. At least there are many more options in all the saddle styles. >> BTW, Cary weighs 235 pounds. He's no endurance rider, but he's certainly ridden Skjoni for more than eight miles.<< Just out of curiosity, how many times a week and what is the average number of miles per ride, and what is the weekly average total miles he puts in his Sensation? You don't need to be specific, just thow out, on average the number of days a week he puts more than 8 miles in the Sensation. Susan in NV http://desertduty.blogspot.com/ Riding for Breast Cancer Awareness Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention/Raven
>> RP, which I love dearly as do all of my horses StephI feel the very same way. <;p] Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention/Raven
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 9:46 PM, susan cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Raven, since I didn't get to see the RP in person, > could you give a detailed report on it and how it is > put together? There's a detailed gallery of photos in my yahoo photos, I can't get a link to it on dial up, but I believe if you go to photos and search for stefffi_c you'll get my gallery. I put it up right after I got my RP, which I love dearly as do all of my horses. I've had it almost 3 years now and it is still my favorite saddle. I have a fox hunter/cross country model in a 19.5" seat with an extra long extra forward flap. Steph -- "Brutality begins where skill ends." "Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels." Von Niendorff
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention/Raven
>> Raven, since I didn't get to see the RP in person, could you give a detailed report on it and how it is put together? SusanI will try to get some photos together for you.in a few days (Tuesday). As I have a very busy day tomorrow, and back to school Monday. Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
>>> It was the only saddle that worked for Huginn. We love our RP endurance >>> saddle! FWIW, the similar and much touted Free N Easy flex panel saddle SEEMED to work for Skjoni for several months...And then Skjoni started getting a little pacey, then hard to catch. Finally, on a whim, I had Cary try one of my Sensations and they haven't looked back. I know there are people for whom Reactor Panels didn't work for their horses, and who have turned to treeless saddles. BTW, Cary weighs 235 pounds. He's no endurance rider, but he's certainly ridden Skjoni for more than eight miles. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention/Raven
--- Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> It was the only saddle that worked for Huginn. We love our RP endurance saddle!<< Raven, since I didn't get to see the RP in person, could you give a detailed report on it and how it is put together? Susan in NV http://desertduty.blogspot.com/ Riding for Breast Cancer Awareness Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Saddle report from the AERC convention
>> have seen the Reactor Panels saddles work as well for some situations. It was the only saddle that worked for Huginn. We love our RP endurance saddle! Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
