Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
--- On Sun, 6/29/08, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never use it to hit them, only as an aid for proper cues. It just seems like it is more natural for a horse to learn aids from behind. Interesting. I haven't heard this before. Which cues are from behind? The ones that say yes really I really do want to go faster in the gait that I have asked for, yes really its true I want you to move ahead at a faster rate.and then with just a light brush its like magic, he moves ahead as light as a feather at whatever gait I have asked for. Baldur likes to know you really mean itusually I only have to do that once in the beginning of the ride, after that I just forget I have it or use it for other trail things. Skyfaxa in her training had a hard time in the beginning of a ride...she just would not move forward...(This was only something that would happen on our long driveway, once we got to our lower gait she was all full steam ahead) so we used ground driving on the ground and used a crop in the saddle to cue her to move forward, she got it instantly. Now she understands what we want and it really is not an issue. Its just with a cue from behind they are magically being pushed, instead of having cues from the seat or on their sides, which I do not believe are really intuitive for a horse to get especially in the beginning of their training. Skye
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
with jas in times when I had to ask him to really move it I swung the reins from one side of withers to the other. like gene autry hyi! hyi! chasing banditos. it made him burst into a blistering 2 mph land speed record, an all time personal high. janice
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
asking teev to go fast I would kick and he would put his ears back, forward, back like wait lets get this straight... you are telling MOI what to do?! then would sorta launch into the next gear like hold on to your dentures granny haha. man his canter was powerful. I saw my donkey do a rare full blown gallop yesterday with flying lead changes. was so cute I laughed outloud. he was leading nasi, trausti and fox, who were all having trouble maintaining speed while still allowing him to be in the lead;) janice
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
with jas in times when I had to ask him to really move it I swung the reins from one side of withers to the other. like gene autry hyi! Oh come one - I'm a huge Gene Autry fan. I never carry a whip with Hunter, but every now and then he just goes to sleep under me (can't believe I'd ever write that) and short of cutting a switch off a tree, the only thing I have at hand it the short bight on my reins, which I do indeed use on either side of his withers. I confess embarrassment. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
Oh come one - I'm a huge Gene Autry fan. I never carry a whip with Hunter, but every now and then he just goes to sleep under me (can't believe I'd ever write that) and short of cutting a switch off a tree, the only thing I have at hand it the short bight on my reins, which I do indeed use on either side of his withers. I confess embarrassment. My reins all have a romal on them, and if I have to use the romal as an incentive (very rare because if the horse has brio, a kissy or a light touch with my heels will produce forward motion) the touch is on the shoulder or under the belly at the girth. Most horses have been introduced to the romal in training so just showing them the romal out of the corner of their eye obviates the need for touching. Touching on the butt is also too likely to produce a buck from the back. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA ranch: http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://members.dslextreme.com/users/napha/HighPoint/
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
Its just with a cue from behind they are magically being pushed, instead of having cues from the seat or on their sides, which I do not believe are really intuitive for a horse to get especially in the beginning of their training. OK, I can see it for horses that aren't finished in their training. Do we need to think of why a horse may not want to speed up, and get to the cause, before reverting to a whip to encourage it? Lots of horses are ridden without whips and respond appropriately to aids. (As an aside, there's a difference between aids and cues: http://iceryder.net/aids.html ) Judy
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
well like my jas. he is just lazy and I always let him get away with it. its such a petty offense when I ride with so many heathens. but stonewall oh jeez he needs to learn things bad. janice
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
Do we need to think of why a horse may not want to speed up, and get to the cause, before reverting to a whip to encourage it? Absolutely. Liz does a section in some of her clinics about finding the joy in our lives as a way to get our energy up, to get the horses to move out more energetically. Parelli uses the analogy of increasing the horse's RPM's, more than worrying about increasing his speed... and of course, his whole impulsion video is about finding that correct balance of 5 where the horse is willing to move forward easily, but is also willing to stop willingly. Jane Savoie talks about getting the horse to march forward with purpose - her lectures are particularly useful to me, even though they may not be literally as natural as I like - she still gives some great verbal images to call back when needed. The bottom line is that most GOOD trainers - different genres, different styles - know that this is a fundamental part of the training of a young horse. I don't worry JUST because someone carries a crop or whip - or wand or carrot stick if you want a more palatable name associated with it. After all, a stick of whatever name can be a good multi-purpose tool. But, when we go so far as to depend on it, even accepting it as inevitable - then something basic is missing.Horses understand intent, and they understand context, so I hope we at least aim for less crude means of communication as our goal. They are certainly capable of understanding us and what we like...if we let them. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
But i need one for brushingspider webs out of the way and whacking jas when he snatches bites off blueberry bushes. The girl I ride with uses hers for spider webs, to push berry vines out of the trail and to brush flies off her horse's face. I've never seen her use it in any other way. Most of us also carry small hand held pruning shears and a little folding saw for doing basic trail maintenance. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
i think a coincidence... because i ride with a crop and if it doesnt have a handle it is a huge pita to me! But i need one for brushing spider webs out of the way and whacking jas when he snatches bites off blueberry bushes. I tend to think it coincidence too. When I was first riding, I had a lousy seat and I couldn't balance anything in my hand easily. But, then I have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time. I ride with a fly whisk, not a crop or whip, and it's become second nature to me, and I KNOW my seat is much better than it's ever been. I just have to work to gain any skills that involve physical coordination. Fly whisks are great for 1) whisking flies (imagine!), but also for 2) clearing spider webs that Janice mentioned. Yesterday, when I rode out, I used the handle end of my whisk to 3) get the chain on the gate turned towards me, so I could open the gate without dismounting. I also use mine sometimes for 4) guiding my horses rather than using the reins, when the seat/legs don't seem quite enough (common as you're training young horses.) I'm talking similar to the way the Parelli students use the carrot stick to guide their horses. I don't whack my horse often at all (and I know Janice doesn't either) but I do find that simply 5) touching the horses with the hair of the whisk, or even just moving it towards them can have the same effect as tapping them - and I'm not as likely to tap too hard. I've also 6) shooed away other horses or dogs by shaking the whisk - the hair is soft but is more visible than a mere crop/whip to intruders. With other horses, it's probably more accurate to say that I tend to lift the whisk up to serve as a visual block to the horse's approach - again, the way many NH trainers teach to use whatever they choose to call their version of a carrot stick. A fly whisk simply has too many uses for me to stop using one! Just make sure your horse is comfortable with one before you try riding with one. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
--- On Sat, 6/28/08, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting topic on the dressage list, with this comment: ... interesting that the riders I have ridden with or taught and that have had trouble holding a whip saying It is distracting and too much in my hands are the ones with the most sensitive hands AND oddly enough, most independent seat. Maybe this is just a coincidence?? Well, I ride with a small whip with 2 of my horses. Some of Baldurs cues are from behind, and it is much easier with a whip than not to have one. A small light well balanced one is nice. Linda Tellington Jones has a white riding whip that is very nice to ride with. My mare Skyfaxa, who Sally and I trained needed cues from behind, but now she no longer needs them. A lot of ground driving seemed to really work with her. I never use it to hit them, only as an aid for proper cues. It just seems like it is more natural for a horse to learn aids from behind. Skye
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
funny how if i smack jas on the shoulder for snatching bites, he puts his ears back a little and swishes his tail. Or if really maddern fire will snake his head a little. But I can whack a yellowfly between his ears with all my might and he doesnt notice it at all. :) Yes, they are masters at perceiving intent... Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
Linda Tellington Jones has a white riding whip that is very nice to ride with. they are good for ponying too. For holding out in case the ponied horse wants to pass too forward or wave like Skye said, from behind to get them to quit dragging and make slack in the rope. But hey Skye, Jeffers has pink crops with ribbon wrapped handles and glitter and a magic wand fairy looking thing at the end. they have pink and blue. I got pink :) i bought this thing at auction one time, they call it a pig slapper, heavy leather weighted at one end with something, man was that thing a mean device. I would say Jaspar, do you want me to use my pig slapper on you? and he would sorta smirk. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
Interesting. I haven't heard this before. Which cues are from behind? waving the whip in the air toward nasi's butt as I pony him and he starts to lag behind. Other than that I guess it is tapping the butt to make them go? I always just tap with the feet. Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting topic on the dressage list, with this comment: ... interesting that the riders I have ridden with or taught and that have had trouble holding a whip saying It is distracting and too much in my hands are the ones with the most sensitive hands AND oddly enough, most independent seat. Maybe this is just a coincidence?? i think a coincidence... because i ride with a crop and if it doesnt have a handle it is a huge pita to me! But i need one for brushing spider webs out of the way and whacking jas when he snatches bites off blueberry bushes. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
