RE: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions.../Winging
>>> From experience I know that longg toes can cause wingingwe just rimmed a MFT the other day, it had been 4 months since her last trim (the owner could not catch her 8 weeks ago when we were there)..so Sally watched her move before the trimand she was winging, something this mare never had done before.after the trim she moved perfect again. That's really interesting, Skye. I'm going to talk to my farrier about it the next time I see him too. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.25/1018 - Release Date: 9/19/2007 3:59 PM
RE: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions.../Winging
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's very obvious that many of the top competition horses wing > in tolt, > though you don't see it so much in other gaits. It would be > interesting to > see video of them moving without a rider. ... In breeding > assessments, > horses which clearly show movement faults when not ridden (for > instance > going very close behind in trot) may gain higher marks if they > don't show > those faults under saddle. > > > Interesting. I'm used to mainly thinking of winging as a > conformation > problem...and I suspect there almost has to be a conformational > element for > a horse to show it as markedly as these two did. But, I've never > seen a > demonstration of exactly how much riding and shoeing/trimming can > be a > factor. Either way, something is seriously amiss. If a horse > can't tolt > without winging, something is awry. > > > > Karen Thomas, NC >From experience I know that longg toes can cause wingingwe just rimmed a MFT the other day, it had been 4 months since her last trim (the owner could not catch her 8 weeks ago when we were there)..so Sally watched her move before the trimand she was winging, something this mare never had done before.after the trim she moved perfect again. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions...
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:58:42 -0400, you wrote: >Now whether it should be part of the judging is another whole >issue. In the FIPO classes for youth and novices, a mark is given for the rider's seat and aids. I would like to see that happen in the main classes too. (nothing to do with horse conformation - that's a whole other subject) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions...
> When I took a USDF dressage judging weekend class the question of a > horse that is winging came up. We were told that this absolutely > shouldn't > be a consideration in the score because this is not what they are being > judged on. I would agree with that. The dressage test isn't about conformation, or even a breed. And maybe the sport competition isn't about conformation, but it should show the best of the breed. Using a video from whatever discipline for educational purposes in regard to conformation, is a good thing. Imagine how much better the horses would do with good legs and correct movement! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions...
When I took a USDF dressage judging weekend class the question of a horse that is winging came up. We were told that this absolutely shouldn't be a consideration in the score because this is not what they are being judged on. In sport, yes, conformation isn't a criteria...but have you ever looked at the FEIF breeding evaluation rules and scoring? Conformation is only 40% of a horse's total score, and legs are a small percentage of the conformation score. With "ridden abilities" being 60% of the score, that leaves a lot of leeway for a horse with weak conformation in the most critical body parts to still get a high score. And no matter how many times I read and reread the FEIF breeding evaluation rules, I can't get a feeling whether the leg traits that I value most are weighted much at all. I've seen a few highly evaluated horses who have questionable legs, and that worries me no end. And of course, we all know that WAY too often, people breed to what wins in the show ring, no matter what breed. As much winging as we see in the competition and evaluated horses, I've never heard it mentioned much by the folks who are into competition...many thanks to Mic for recently voluntarily noting her Skessa's winging. Skessa isn't a competition horse (that I'm aware of) but it's nice to see someone freely bring up a less-than-ideal conformation example, without someone threatening to eat the beast. Skessa certainly seems valuable to Mic for the mare's unique qualities, and that's wonderful - a lot of us have our own less-than-perfect "perfect ponies". We can certainly love our horses without denying their idiosyncrasies. :) Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007 11:53 AM
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions...
> Interesting. I'm used to mainly thinking of winging as a conformation > problem...and I suspect there almost has to be a conformational element for > a horse to show it as markedly as these two did. When I took a USDF dressage judging weekend class the question of a horse that is winging came up. We were told that this absolutely shouldn't be a consideration in the score because this is not what they are being judged on. I am sure this is the same in the WC classes. Now whether it should be part of the judging is another whole issue. I do know that it is considered a fault and judged so, when Hanoverians go for their inspection (and probably the other warmblood inspections, too) - which is a breeding evaluation. That is probably more of an appropriate place for this to be penalized. Of course, if I were considering breeding to one of these horses, their winging in competition would be part of the consideration. -- Laree
RE: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions...
It's very obvious that many of the top competition horses wing in tolt, though you don't see it so much in other gaits. It would be interesting to see video of them moving without a rider. ... In breeding assessments, horses which clearly show movement faults when not ridden (for instance going very close behind in trot) may gain higher marks if they don't show those faults under saddle. Interesting. I'm used to mainly thinking of winging as a conformation problem...and I suspect there almost has to be a conformational element for a horse to show it as markedly as these two did. But, I've never seen a demonstration of exactly how much riding and shoeing/trimming can be a factor. Either way, something is seriously amiss. If a horse can't tolt without winging, something is awry. It's one reason I'd like to get the full video, to see if I might see other angles of these two horses, in other gaits. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?! conformation questions...
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:14:48 -0400, you wrote: > I noticed that the guy stayed on the horse in the ring for a long time after > the hoof incident, and when he left the ring, he finally dismounted Had he dismounted before the end of the class, he would have been disqualified. As it was, he still kept his place in the final even though he didn't get a mark for fast tolt. It's very obvious that many of the top competition horses wing in tolt, though you don't see it so much in other gaits. It would be interesting to see video of them moving without a rider. In breeding assessments, horses which clearly show movement faults when not ridden (for instance going very close behind in trot) may gain higher marks if they don't show those faults under saddle. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
