Re: [Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-25 Thread Alessandro Vesely 

On Fri 24/Mar/2023 18:42:28 +0100 Dave Crocker wrote:

On 3/24/2023 6:45 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:

On 3/24/2023 6:42 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption. 
Wei is merging 'mine' into his.  (Note mine was done as a variant of his.) 



For folks new to IETF processes, it might be worth explaining that 
contributions about an existing draft are usually anchored in specific 
suggestions for adding/changing/removing text.  This ensures that a) whatever 
concern is being raised is clearly linked to a specific part of the draft, and 
b) provides concrete, candidate text to evaluate.  This quite reliably develops 
movement towards document completion.


Sometimes, this process does not converge to the satisfaction of one or another 
participant.  Their usual response, then, is what I did: I wrote an 
alternative.  In my case it was explicitly derivative, with a goal of getting 
either chosen or merged.  In other cases, it might be completely independent.


Working groups often get bogged down debating concepts.  Having concrete text 
to review, debate, and decide about tends to mitigate against the infinite 
delay that staying at too high a level often produces.



Wouldn't make editing faster using GitHub tools?


Nest
Ale
--




___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-24 Thread Dave Crocker 

On 3/24/2023 6:45 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:

On 3/24/2023 6:42 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption. 
Wei is merging 'mine' into his.  (Note mine was done as a variant of 
his.) 



For folks new to IETF processes, it might be worth explaining that 
contributions about an existing draft are usually anchored in specific 
suggestions for adding/changing/removing text.  This ensures that a) 
whatever concern is being raised is clearly linked to a specific part of 
the draft, and b) provides concrete, candidate text to evaluate.  This 
quite reliably develops movement towards document completion.


Sometimes, this process does not converge to the satisfaction of one or 
another participant.  Their usual response, then, is what I did: I wrote 
an alternative.  In my case it was explicitly derivative, with a goal of 
getting either chosen or merged.  In other cases, it might be completely 
independent.


Working groups often get bogged down debating concepts.  Having concrete 
text to review, debate, and decide about tends to mitigate against the 
infinite delay that staying at too high a level often produces.


d/

--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social
___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-24 Thread Michael Thomas 
Neither in their current forms. They are far too vague. They don't 
specify what has been tried and/or are not adequate or don't work. They 
should not be considered as the only two options.


Also: potential BCP's are in scope via the charter. That requires way 
more information than any supposed protocol solution. Since that is by 
far the most likely output of this, dismissing any talk of them is 
violating the stated charter.


Mike

On 3/24/23 6:42 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:

We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption.

In order to move the adoption forward can we get some specific 
consensus on the drafts that we currently have on the table or some 
specific wording changes needed before adoption.


The drafts on the table:

Draft 1: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chuang-dkim-replay-problem/


Draft 2: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-crocker-dkim-replay/

Questions to answer:

Should we adopt Draft 1?

Should we adopt Draft 2?

Alternatively:

Should we take Draft 1 or Draft 2 and edit or modify it to reflect the 
consensus of the group?


Do we have any volunteers to handle editing duties?

laura


--
The Delivery Experts

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com

Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog







___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-24 Thread Laura Atkins 
Great! Thanks.

laura 



> On 24 Mar 2023, at 14:14, Wei Chuang  wrote:
> 
> +1 I'm working on it.
> 
> -wei
> 
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 6:45 AM Dave Crocker  > wrote:
>> On 3/24/2023 6:42 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
>> > We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption. 
>> 
>> Wei is merging 'mine' into his.  (Note mine was done as a variant of his.)
>> 
>> I believe there will again be only one draft.
>> 
>> d/
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dave Crocker
>> Brandenburg InternetWorking
>> bbiw.net 
>> mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social
>> 
>> ___
>> Ietf-dkim mailing list
>> Ietf-dkim@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

-- 
The Delivery Experts

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com 

Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog  






___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-24 Thread Wei Chuang 
+1 I'm working on it.

-wei

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 6:45 AM Dave Crocker  wrote:

> On 3/24/2023 6:42 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
> > We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption.
>
> Wei is merging 'mine' into his.  (Note mine was done as a variant of his.)
>
> I believe there will again be only one draft.
>
> d/
>
> --
> Dave Crocker
> Brandenburg InternetWorking
> bbiw.net
> mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social
>
> ___
> Ietf-dkim mailing list
> Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim
>


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-24 Thread Dave Crocker 

On 3/24/2023 6:42 AM, Laura Atkins wrote:
We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption. 


Wei is merging 'mine' into his.  (Note mine was done as a variant of his.)

I believe there will again be only one draft.

d/

--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social

___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim

[Ietf-dkim] Problem statement adoption

2023-03-24 Thread Laura Atkins 
We currently have two problem statements to discuss for adoption. 

In order to move the adoption forward can we get some specific consensus on the 
drafts that we currently have on the table or some specific wording changes 
needed before adoption. 

The drafts on the table: 

Draft 1: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chuang-dkim-replay-problem/

Draft 2: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-crocker-dkim-replay/ 

Questions to answer: 

Should we adopt Draft 1? 

Should we adopt Draft 2?

Alternatively: 

Should we take Draft 1 or Draft 2 and edit or modify it to reflect the 
consensus of the group?

Do we have any volunteers to handle editing duties?

laura 


-- 
The Delivery Experts

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com 

Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog  






___
Ietf-dkim mailing list
Ietf-dkim@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim