Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-16 Thread Praveen A
2010/5/17 nishandh M :
> GODDAMN windows has its own migratory issues. People really got confused
> when Vista and Office2007 came. here we are only trying to deal with
> migratory issues from WIN users. If we have any ethical/personal problem
> with WIN interface, or we have any Patent problem in adopting WIN interface
> ways, we preach (or atleast make a sabotage) that  way is
> the freedom way, and Windows way is the RETARD way.

http://www.xpde.com/
http://www.reactos.org

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-16 Thread nishandh M
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Srihari k  wrote:

> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 3:06 AM, nishandh M  wrote:
> >
> > Hiii, a wish list:
> > Classes of linux users:(simplified, please suggest changes..)
> > Developer: (Commited to developing Linux on long term, has pretty good
> > knowledge in trouble shooting, rectifying errors and development)
> > Enthusiast:(Contributing to the development of FLOSS part time.- an IT
> > student, serious enthusiast)
> > Non-techie: Is ready to test and use Linux, at the moment not
> > contributing,and cant handle errors.
> > Wishlist for User friendlines: ( The numbering is not based on priority.
> > Random order)
> > 1) The need for simplifying the language when communicating with Non
> techie
> > class of Linux users.{Bipin kumar}
> >
> > May not always possible, how would we work it out? If a person is busy,
> but
> > can provide a solution in short form, let him do it. Somebody else would
> be
> > ready to elaborate it.(this has to be notified with a 'free to elaborate'
> > tag(?), as some of us may feel reluctant to expand it without adding
> > details,taking it as an unpreferred practice in Mailing list )
>
> Agreed.People are to post solutions (uninstall/install xyz) or post
> commands.The questioner can then ask for further help -" I dont know
> how to uninstall "-then anyone can extend further help ( Well this is
> how it happens most of the time) . What i am trying to tell is
> :Elaboration is neccessary only if the person asking is in do
>
Yups. agreed. Let this guideline be included in the  FSUG home page
guideline.
''If the answers posted to your query are looking difficult, be very free to
ask for an easier way to do it"
Also:
a) "Those posting questions about software problems are requested to provide
as much necessary details as possible"
b) Should we also draft a recommended proforma (a simple one) for those who
post questions?

Draft proforma:

{Distro:, version:, whether updated through net:, software having the
problem and its version,...what else would be necessary? corresponding
hardware information? }
We will make templates for specific categories, which can be posted to the
user in one click. We expect to get it back "filled in the blanks" as far as
he could. The template categories could be i) network issues, ii) Display
issues iii) Mounting issues iv)... like that
This template should also have a simple guideline on how he could find
answers to these.
It can also have a statement : "Please avoid filling in those details where
you are sure, are not necessary to rectify the problem" [a power user may
get mad if he get such a fill_in_the_blanks post back to a query. Most power
users send relevant data in first post]



> 2) RTF will not be used for communications to mailing list. Images will be
> > attached, not embedded in email.{widely supported, Hiran Venugopal,
> Praveen
> > A,Yadu Nand...}
> > 3)Automation of the following tasks: mounting file systems.{widely
> > supported, Praveen, Srihari}
> > 4) Extensive Right click menus [context menus] with the following
> > options:{Praveen A }
> >
> > 4a)Media operations : Format, mount, unmount
> > 4b) File opertations Zip, unzip,
> > 4c)Memmory release
> >
> > 5) Extensive support for the differentially abled {Jinesh KJ..}:
> >
> > 5a) text to speach
> > 5b) Image to speach
> >
> > 6) Unified icons -- Image overlays and text ( A standardization :
> > recommended for ease of learners)
>
> > 7) Extensive interactive tool tips in small, commited windows, which
> > recognizes context[interacting with the programme/OS]. Supported with
> images
> > , audio and video.
> > 8) Special interpreter programme which crawls through settings files (eg:
> > .ini files) and displays information,Displays changeable settings in a
> > graphical manner.
> >
> > Eg: Reads OS Boot order from grub.lst and presents the order in GUI,
> > settings changeable from interface.
> >
> > 9)A clean Linux Uninstallation program, which allows any other existing
> OS
> > to load. No MBR manipulations afterwards should be necessary
> >
> > {from
> http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs?cmm=25416339&tid=5468635254074103253&start=1
> }
> > 10) Extensive fine tuneability of the OS. {Srihari}
> > 11) Add a training multimedia on bug reporting, with very attractive icon
> in
> > boot menu and and Desktop by default.(later be switched off)
>
> Why include in the OS?Anyone capable of reporting a bug(i.e internet
> connectivity) can access the training multimedia from web.
>
Any one capable of reporting a bug can make many situations easy for him.
Google, as always, would give 9,99,999 results or its multiples on most key
words on IT, but we are thinking of multimedia content which are relavent
and recommended for the specific Distro. Well this may not be included in
the first DVD. It would only help.


> > 12) Best bug reporter gets ice creams, steam engines or missiles.
> > 13) All developers gets ( choices plees... :)  )
> > 14) Boot option inc

Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-16 Thread Srihari k
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 3:06 AM, nishandh M  wrote:
>
> Hiii, a wish list:
> Classes of linux users:(simplified, please suggest changes..)
> Developer: (Commited to developing Linux on long term, has pretty good
> knowledge in trouble shooting, rectifying errors and development)
> Enthusiast:(Contributing to the development of FLOSS part time.- an IT
> student, serious enthusiast)
> Non-techie: Is ready to test and use Linux, at the moment not
> contributing,and cant handle errors.
> Wishlist for User friendlines: ( The numbering is not based on priority.
> Random order)
> 1) The need for simplifying the language when communicating with Non techie
> class of Linux users.{Bipin kumar}
>
> May not always possible, how would we work it out? If a person is busy, but
> can provide a solution in short form, let him do it. Somebody else would be
> ready to elaborate it.(this has to be notified with a 'free to elaborate'
> tag(?), as some of us may feel reluctant to expand it without adding
> details,taking it as an unpreferred practice in Mailing list )

Agreed.People are to post solutions (uninstall/install xyz) or post
commands.The questioner can then ask for further help -" I dont know
how to uninstall "-then anyone can extend further help ( Well this is
how it happens most of the time) . What i am trying to tell is
:Elaboration is neccessary only if the person asking is in do
> 2) RTF will not be used for communications to mailing list. Images will be
> attached, not embedded in email.{widely supported, Hiran Venugopal, Praveen
> A,Yadu Nand...}
> 3)Automation of the following tasks: mounting file systems.{widely
> supported, Praveen, Srihari}
> 4) Extensive Right click menus [context menus] with the following
> options:{Praveen A }
>
> 4a)Media operations : Format, mount, unmount
> 4b) File opertations Zip, unzip,
> 4c)Memmory release
>
> 5) Extensive support for the differentially abled {Jinesh KJ..}:
>
> 5a) text to speach
> 5b) Image to speach
>
> 6) Unified icons -- Image overlays and text ( A standardization :
> recommended for ease of learners)

> 7) Extensive interactive tool tips in small, commited windows, which
> recognizes context[interacting with the programme/OS]. Supported with images
> , audio and video.
> 8) Special interpreter programme which crawls through settings files (eg:
> .ini files) and displays information,Displays changeable settings in a
> graphical manner.
>
> Eg: Reads OS Boot order from grub.lst and presents the order in GUI,
> settings changeable from interface.
>
> 9)A clean Linux Uninstallation program, which allows any other existing OS
> to load. No MBR manipulations afterwards should be necessary
>
> {from http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs?cmm=25416339&tid=5468635254074103253&start=1}
> 10) Extensive fine tuneability of the OS. {Srihari}
> 11) Add a training multimedia on bug reporting, with very attractive icon in
> boot menu and and Desktop by default.(later be switched off)

Why include in the OS?Anyone capable of reporting a bug(i.e internet
connectivity) can access the training multimedia from web.

> 12) Best bug reporter gets ice creams, steam engines or missiles.
> 13) All developers gets ( choices plees... :)  )
> 14) Boot option includes the following options along with administrator/user
>
> 14a) I wanna try it, with all assistance (a short name for it...pls)

Live CD mode

> 14b) Boot next time, discarding all changes made in current login.(let the
> user twaek, but not suffer consequences)

Live CD mode

> 15) Let an option be there to release possible OS/backgruond routine process
> resources. for a "Game/Video reneder" mode. On single click, and return to
> full fledged mode.[inspired by Game mode in antivirus softwares]

There are no UN-necessary background process most of the time.However
compiz and such eye candies are resource consuming.You can turn them
off from their own menus.If you want a single click turn off them
,make a script to turn off them --Someone can help you with that.This
unnecessary background processes(printer service in my case) differ
for different people so a single solution , i think ,would not be very
smart

And regarding the antivirus thingy -- That is THE worst thing you can
take inspiration for something in a GNU/Linux system look at this -
http://xkcd.com/c272.html :)

> 16)Constitute a platform to accumulate money, inorder to buy "user
> friendliness"patents from the propreitory developers. Cant just pirate on
> them and let them go to hell.they have families.

USER FRIENDLINESS IS NOT MAKING GNOME/KDE/ LOOK LIKE
GODDAMN WINDOWS.


> 17)I recently saw an image crawler in web, which indexes only CC/GPL images.
> Designing  one for forum crawling would be great. i hope its already there.
>
> 17a) men should be able to rank discussions, and post consolidations.
>
> 18) Narendra Sisodaya has listed a lot of changes, in his SchoolOS project.
> like Gobotype Filesystem, and more.
> Praveen A has created a project page:
> htt

Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-16 Thread nishandh M
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Rajiv Nair  wrote:

> @nishandh
>
> For a person who complains quite a bit about un-user friendliness of
> error messages and stuff, your mails are pretty hard to decipher.
>
> I'm referring to lines like
>  - "It didn't negate that it was the rule from the days of billboard"
>  - "would take into consideration some extra automatic adjustments in
> context of sending/recieving equipment's hardware and software
> efficiency"
>
> Jaba? :D
>
> Reminds of an episode in the sit-com FRIENDS where a character
> overuses a thesaurus and writes "They're humid, pre-possessing
> homosapiens with full-sized aortic pumps" instead of "They're warm,
> nice people with big hearts."
>
> Maybe you should read the quote in your own signature once more ;)
>
> Regards,
> Rajiv
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>

@Rajiv,

Jabaabji :D
(let the word attain a meaning from its context, as the other admin says :)
)
and there is a similiar text in kandalaya.org guideline. but not this much
horsepower.

-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-16 Thread Rajiv Nair
@nishandh

For a person who complains quite a bit about un-user friendliness of
error messages and stuff, your mails are pretty hard to decipher.

I'm referring to lines like
 - "It didn't negate that it was the rule from the days of billboard"
 - "would take into consideration some extra automatic adjustments in
context of sending/recieving equipment's hardware and software
efficiency"

Jaba? :D

Reminds of an episode in the sit-com FRIENDS where a character
overuses a thesaurus and writes "They're humid, pre-possessing
homosapiens with full-sized aortic pumps" instead of "They're warm,
nice people with big hearts."

Maybe you should read the quote in your own signature once more ;)

Regards,
Rajiv

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-16 Thread nishandh M
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 12:13 PM, ashik salahudeen wrote:

> Of bcourse no top posting when possible. You of all people should know why
> i did it :). Since i dont have broadband and am unable to do anything coz am
> in sick bed, i am emailing from my phone and thats the reason for top
> posting. The gmail app doesnt allow me to remove the text.
>
> I do not normally involve much in the discussions but in this case i need
> to see whats going on. I should he back up with a modem and a broadband
> connection by tomorrow. Until then forgive the top posting. I will keep my
> emails to the minimum till then.
>
> --
> Aashik
>
> On May 16, 2010 10:57 AM, "sooraj kenoth"  wrote:
>
> @Ashik
>
> I think we following, *No RTF* as well as *No top posting* policy.
>
> Regards:
> Sooraj Kenoth
>
> --
>
> "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ilug-tvm" group. To contr...
>
>  --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
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>
>
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>

Ashik, I did read the entire Kandalaya.org guideline.
By "as of now", I meant 'prevalent at the moment'. It didnt negate that it
was the rule from the days of billboard.
During the days of bill boards, a text either 'long' or 'space consuming'
could 'cloud' a good discussion.
This is further discussed in the other thread in which HTML/RTF text is
specifically discussed.

I had to search for what exactly is "no_top_pasting", for those who are in
my condition,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting
explains.
@Ashik,Thanks for taking the effort to reply with the phone.
I think we got another minor but significant bug regarding readability/user
friendliness:
It would be nice, if the mailing service providers, like Gmail, would take
into consideration some extra automatic adjustments in context of
sending/recieving equipment's hardware and software efficiency. This option
should be adjustable by the user.
Let "no_top_posting" be default(automaticaly done when not specified )when
sending from mobile / CLI ?

-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread ashik salahudeen
Of bcourse no top posting when possible. You of all people should know why i
did it :). Since i dont have broadband and am unable to do anything coz am
in sick bed, i am emailing from my phone and thats the reason for top
posting. The gmail app doesnt allow me to remove the text.

I do not normally involve much in the discussions but in this case i need to
see whats going on. I should he back up with a modem and a broadband
connection by tomorrow. Until then forgive the top posting. I will keep my
emails to the minimum till then.

--
Aashik

On May 16, 2010 10:57 AM, "sooraj kenoth"  wrote:

@Ashik

I think we following, *No RTF* as well as *No top posting* policy.

Regards:
Sooraj Kenoth

--

"Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread sooraj kenoth
@Ashik

I think we following, *No RTF* as well as *No top posting* policy.

Regards:
Sooraj Kenoth

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread ashik salahudeen
Nishandh,  the no rtf policy was not "as of now". It was in place for a long
time and it appears that _you_  simply chose to recognize it now. Clearly
you havent read the mailinglist guidelines at all. Please do go through them
carefully.

--
Aashik

On May 15, 2010 11:10 PM, "nishandh M"  wrote:



On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Hiran Venugopalan 
wrote: > > On 15 May 2010 03:...
Hi Hiran,
Regarding ilug-tvm, we have approved the No-RTF policy as of now, becuase of
the wide spread opinion from its active contributors.

This issue is addressed here, as we are dealing with Participatory Mode Of
 Userfriendliness-Development. The newbies are supported with efficient
communication platforms, who may opt for better readability. That is not
restricted to ML, as is exemplified by the functionality of the Wiki,
Praveen A has created for us, which would be more readable for  the newbies.
The readability aspects of RTF and other differentialy emphasising
technologies are discussed further in the Thread Dealing with "Mailing List
Best Practices"

Sorry for not being able to express it in comprehension in the rough draft.

>
> --
>
> > Hiran Venugopalan > Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio > IRC : HFactor |
> Phone : 09496346709 | W : ht...
>
> > > -- > "Freedom is the only law". > "Freedom Unplugged" >
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org > > You received...
>


-- 
#//#
  "Simplicity...

"Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org   You
received this message ...

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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread nishandh M
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Hiran Venugopalan wrote:

> On 15 May 2010 03:06, nishandh M  wrote:
>
> > 2) RTF will not be used for communications to mailing list. Images will
> be
> > attached, not embedded in email.{widely supported, Hiran Venugopal,
> Praveen
> > A,Yadu Nand...}
>
> How it become part of  'User Friendlines' in FLOSS ?
> Its just part of mailing list rules.
>
Hi Hiran,
Regarding ilug-tvm, we have approved the No-RTF policy as of now, becuase of
the wide spread opinion from its active contributors.

This issue is addressed here, as we are dealing with Participatory Mode Of
 Userfriendliness-Development. The newbies are supported with efficient
communication platforms, who may opt for better readability. That is not
restricted to ML, as is exemplified by the functionality of the Wiki,
Praveen A has created for us, which would be more readable for  the newbies.
The readability aspects of RTF and other differentialy emphasising
technologies are discussed further in the Thread Dealing with "Mailing List
Best Practices"

Sorry for not being able to express it in comprehension in the rough draft.

>
> --
> Hiran Venugopalan
> Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
> IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in
>
> --
> "Freedom is the only law".
> "Freedom Unplugged"
> http://www.ilug-tvm.org
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
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>
>
>
> For details visit the google group page:
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>



-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

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"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread Hiran Venugopalan
On 15 May 2010 03:06, nishandh M  wrote:

> 2) RTF will not be used for communications to mailing list. Images will be
> attached, not embedded in email.{widely supported, Hiran Venugopal, Praveen
> A,Yadu Nand...}

How it become part of  'User Friendlines' in FLOSS ?
Its just part of mailing list rules.

-- 
Hiran Venugopalan
Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread Praveen A
2010/5/15 nishandh M :
> Shud we restrict the discussion to the potentials of FSUG Tvm only?

We need not restrict it.

-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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Re: [fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-15 Thread Praveen A
2010/5/15 nishandh M :
> Praveen A has created a project page:
> http://www.fosscommunity.in/wiki/If_linux_needs_to_be_adopted_by_desktop_users,_it_needs_to_be_much_more_user_friendly_%28nobody_argues%29
> Consolidations will be posted to this page

I made a shorter link which is easy to remember
http://www.fosscommunity.in/wiki/Desktop_Priorities

I think it would be better to work on the wiki directly from a
consolidation point of view. But if some one volunteers consolidate,
replying here would be easier.

> Shud we restrict the discussion to the potentials of FSUG Tvm only?


-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
 What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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[fsug-tvm] A very rough draft on 'User Friendlines' in FLOSS

2010-05-14 Thread nishandh M
Hiii, a wish list:

Classes of linux users:(simplified, please suggest changes..)
Developer: (Commited to developing Linux on long term, has pretty good
knowledge in trouble shooting, rectifying errors and development)
Enthusiast:(Contributing to the development of FLOSS part time.- an IT
student, serious enthusiast)
Non-techie: Is ready to test and use Linux, at the moment not
contributing,and cant handle errors.

Wishlist for User friendlines: ( The numbering is not based on priority.
Random order)

1) The need for simplifying the language when communicating with Non techie
class of Linux users.{Bipin kumar}

May not always possible, how would we work it out? If a person is busy, but
can provide a solution in short form, let him do it. Somebody else would be
ready to elaborate it.(this has to be notified with a 'free to elaborate'
tag(?), as some of us may feel reluctant to expand it without adding
details,taking it as an unpreferred practice in Mailing list )


2) RTF will not be used for communications to mailing list. Images will be
attached, not embedded in email.{widely supported, Hiran Venugopal, Praveen
A,Yadu Nand...}

3)Automation of the following tasks: mounting file systems.{widely
supported, Praveen, Srihari}

4) Extensive Right click menus [context menus] with the following
options:{Praveen A }

4a)Media operations : Format, mount, unmount
4b) File opertations Zip, unzip,
4c)Memmory release

5) Extensive support for the differentially abled {Jinesh KJ..}:

5a) text to speach
5b) Image to speach

6) Unified icons -- Image overlays and text ( A standardization :
recommended for ease of learners)

7) Extensive interactive tool tips in small, commited windows, which
recognizes context[interacting with the programme/OS]. Supported with images
, audio and video.

8) Special interpreter programme which crawls through settings files (eg:
.ini files) and displays information,Displays changeable settings in a
graphical manner.

Eg: Reads OS Boot order from grub.lst and presents the order in GUI,
settings changeable from interface.

9)A clean Linux Uninstallation program, which allows any other existing OS
to load. No MBR manipulations afterwards should be necessary
   {from
http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs?cmm=25416339&tid=5468635254074103253&start=1
}

10) Extensive fine tuneability of the OS. {Srihari}

11) Add a training multimedia on bug reporting, with very attractive icon in
boot menu and and Desktop by default.(later be switched off)

12) Best bug reporter gets ice creams, steam engines or missiles.

13) All developers gets ( choices plees... :)  )

14) Boot option includes the following options along with administrator/user

14a) I wanna try it, with all assistance (a short name for it...pls)
14b) Boot next time, discarding all changes made in current login.(let the
user twaek, but not suffer consequences)

15) Let an option be there to release possible OS/backgruond routine process
resources. for a "Game/Video reneder" mode. On single click, and return to
full fledged mode.[inspired by Game mode in antivirus softwares]

16)Constitute a platform to accumulate money, inorder to buy "user
friendliness"patents from the propreitory developers. Cant just pirate on
them and let them go to hell.they have families.

17)I recently saw an image crawler in web, which indexes only CC/GPL images.
Designing  one for forum crawling would be great. i hope its already there.

17a) men should be able to rank discussions, and post consolidations.


18) Narendra Sisodaya has listed a lot of changes, in his SchoolOS project.
like Gobotype Filesystem, and more.

Praveen A has created a project page:
http://www.fosscommunity.in/wiki/If_linux_needs_to_be_adopted_by_desktop_users,_it_needs_to_be_much_more_user_friendly_%28nobody_argues%29
Consolidations will be posted to this page

Shud we restrict the discussion to the potentials of FSUG Tvm only?





-- 

#//#
  "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//#

-- 
"Freedom is the only law". 
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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