Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Shakthi Kannan]

Hi,

--- On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 13:27 +0530, senthilraja P wrote:
| So if such a working environment is created within college, students should
| have to learn to use these..
\--

There are assumptions in the above statement, and lot of things can
happen between the 'created' and the 'use' :)

SK

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Shakthi Kannan
http://www.shakthimaan.com
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Aanjhan R  wrote:

> Reading through the suggestions, an idea that popped up was to deploy
> FSOC (Four Seasons of Code) [1] and register people as
> mentors/students. For a sample deployment one can check out the dgplug
> website [2].
>
> [1] https://github.com/shreyankg/fsoc
> [2] http://fsoc.dgplug.org/

Shakthi, who is on the list, had worked with Kushal to come up with a
preliminary set of tasks which would do two things : [1] gauge the
level of understanding of the student and, [2] allow a potential
mentor to begin a conversation with the student.

Setting preliminary tasks also help a bit in breaking the ice and
forming good habits. Along with the ability to think smartly the
capability to be able to think in steps, sequentially with tests for
each step is a big thing to coach.

-- 
sankarshan mukhopadhyay

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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Yoganandam Goteti]

On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 13:27 +0530, senthilraja P wrote:

> >
> > Sorry for getting ranty, but this attitude is what pisses me off. I've been
> > a student before, when there aren't even (local) forums like these to ask
> > and learn. You're saying you can't even edit a wiki and *ask what you need*
> > in a structured way. So what is it that you couldn't find info about? Ask it
> > now, and you'll see how you'll get the answers. Go ahead. And FYI, something
> > woozy like "whole student community will be grateful to you" is nonsense. I
> > would be happier if I know just one good student benefited in a measurable
> > way from my time spent. If you want help, do your homework, and then come to
> > us.
> >
> >
> The solution is to create a working environment within the college
> itself...  an intranet webserver running within the computer lab..  a mail
> server .. a POP3 server..   a local wiki, which collates knowledge from
> students..  an intranet forum..  all these at one stage connected to wiki..
> 
> So if such a working environment is created within college, students should
> have to learn to use these..
> 
> Secondly, students should be encouraged to try new applications/ new
> initatives for the college use..
> 
> Colleges have 8 Mbps bandwidth..  and if properly used, students can publish
> their own website within their lab servers..
> 
> We have to train students to think practically..  The benchmark for any
> initiative/application is how far it is well received among the users..
> 
> Regards,
> Senthil
+1
GY


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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[senthilraja P]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Vamsee Kanakala wrote:

> On Tuesday 30 November 2010 09:16 PM, Prawin K wrote:
>
>> So, I suggest the mentors, to start a blog for themself (for mentorship),
>> to
>> list out the link urls, useful books and other resources in internet about
>> the technology, which help the students to self start. And after having
>> some
>> basic knowledge, the students can do small codings and then personally
>> contact the mentors.
>>
>
> Dude, I don't mean to sound nasty, but let's get this straight, you mean
> you're not even willing to do something as simple as "dear classmates, what
> are you interested in, and what do you need?" and post it online? So we have
> to guess what you might need to get started with and put it all up? Who's
> doing the asking here, exactly?
>
> How exactly do we know how much you can find online through simple
> googling, and where exactly do we have to step in to help you? Suppose, I
> know Ruby/Rails. So how do I know if people are even interested in knowing
> more? And which part of it?
>
> Sorry for getting ranty, but this attitude is what pisses me off. I've been
> a student before, when there aren't even (local) forums like these to ask
> and learn. You're saying you can't even edit a wiki and *ask what you need*
> in a structured way. So what is it that you couldn't find info about? Ask it
> now, and you'll see how you'll get the answers. Go ahead. And FYI, something
> woozy like "whole student community will be grateful to you" is nonsense. I
> would be happier if I know just one good student benefited in a measurable
> way from my time spent. If you want help, do your homework, and then come to
> us.
>
>
The solution is to create a working environment within the college
itself...  an intranet webserver running within the computer lab..  a mail
server .. a POP3 server..   a local wiki, which collates knowledge from
students..  an intranet forum..  all these at one stage connected to wiki..

So if such a working environment is created within college, students should
have to learn to use these..

Secondly, students should be encouraged to try new applications/ new
initatives for the college use..

Colleges have 8 Mbps bandwidth..  and if properly used, students can publish
their own website within their lab servers..

We have to train students to think practically..  The benchmark for any
initiative/application is how far it is well received among the users..

Regards,
Senthil
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Prawin K]

hi gentleman,
i'm extremely sorry that my english is too bad that everyone
misunderstand my idea. I dont mean that the mentors have to spoonfeed
the students through blogs. I never mean that i should get honey
sitting in my place itself. Even i hate tasting honey without some of
my effort in getting it. Let me explain what i really mean.
Suppose, you are a mentor with skills in javascript and xml. And you
have created an orkut application.
Now your blog will contain the following info. .
* project title, description
* tools and technology used (here js,xml)
* detailed description (about 10-15lines)
* pre requistics to get through the project (here, knowledge of js,
xml, a google account, webspace to hold application)
* links for source code, documentation etc. .
And thats it. Now we can examine the pre requistics, get knowledge
through internet, practice some sample codes and then get into the
project.
If i want to develop an orkut application, i dont have to disturb you.
I can go through your blog, get an idea, practice it and get back to
you if i get any doubts.
Instead of one person personaly contacting a mentor, and some other
day someone again contacting same mentor, for same reason then it
kills some time of the mentor. If the discussion is open, anyone can
know it, participate in it. . (that is real open source, right?).
Infact, the mailing list is a good option for that, but searching the
previous mails, or repeating same questions will add little
difficulty.
You can notice some mails with the blog address of the mentor. So if
need that project later, i have to search my mailbox again or post a
mail again regarding the project. So, i suggest to add the blog
address along with the mentor name, mail id, and technology which is
already there.
And dear gentlemen and good ladies, I personaly apologize to each one
of you, if I mean anything wrong. Im really sorry.
Regards,
K.Prawin
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 17:57 +0100, Aanjhan R wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Sudharshan S 
> wrote:
> > Projects which start like this tend to become awesomer over time.
> Find your
> > 'itch' and 'scratch' it. If you are stuck you can always seek
> guidance from
> > the mentors; but only IF you had attempted to use a search engine to
> get
> > answers first (Speaking from experience).
> 
> And while on this topic,
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnusim8085 is all there seeking some love. 

the tamil translation is also ready - it has some 10 strings left over
which I am not able to do - but you could use it ...
-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com

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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Vamsee Kanakala]

On Tuesday 30 November 2010 09:16 PM, Prawin K wrote:

So, I suggest the mentors, to start a blog for themself (for mentorship), to
list out the link urls, useful books and other resources in internet about
the technology, which help the students to self start. And after having some
basic knowledge, the students can do small codings and then personally
contact the mentors.


Dude, I don't mean to sound nasty, but let's get this straight, you mean 
you're not even willing to do something as simple as "dear classmates, 
what are you interested in, and what do you need?" and post it online? 
So we have to guess what you might need to get started with and put it 
all up? Who's doing the asking here, exactly?


How exactly do we know how much you can find online through simple 
googling, and where exactly do we have to step in to help you? Suppose, 
I know Ruby/Rails. So how do I know if people are even interested in 
knowing more? And which part of it?


Sorry for getting ranty, but this attitude is what pisses me off. I've 
been a student before, when there aren't even (local) forums like these 
to ask and learn. You're saying you can't even edit a wiki and *ask what 
you need* in a structured way. So what is it that you couldn't find info 
about? Ask it now, and you'll see how you'll get the answers. Go ahead. 
And FYI, something woozy like "whole student community will be grateful 
to you" is nonsense. I would be happier if I know just one good student 
benefited in a measurable way from my time spent. If you want help, do 
your homework, and then come to us.



Vamsee.
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Aanjhan R]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Sudharshan S  wrote:
> Projects which start like this tend to become awesomer over time. Find your
> 'itch' and 'scratch' it. If you are stuck you can always seek guidance from
> the mentors; but only IF you had attempted to use a search engine to get
> answers first (Speaking from experience).

And while on this topic,

https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnusim8085 is all there seeking some love.

--
A
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Sudharshan S]

Prawin,

On Tuesday 30 November 2010 09:16 PM, Prawin K wrote:

The problem for us is to know where and how to start with. And it is
impossible for the mentors to spoon feed every student and teach everything.


Its a lot easier to know where to start if you are working on a project 
meant to 'scratch your own itch'.
Take a look at gnusim8085 for instance. Some student found that no 
graphical 8085 simulators existed for Linux, rolled out his own.


Projects which start like this tend to become awesomer over time. Find 
your 'itch' and 'scratch' it. If you are stuck you can always seek 
guidance from the mentors; but only IF you had attempted to use a search 
engine to get answers first (Speaking from experience).



Sudharshan S
http://sudharsh.wordpress.com

[1]: http://gnusim8085.org

P.S: The student btw is Sridar Ratnakumar.
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Prawin K]

Dear Gentleman and good ladies,

It is true that most of resource people will be getting requests from
college students for the topics and mentor-ship for their projects. It is
also necessary for the students to learn few basic things (as listed in
previous mail) before starting projects.

The problem for us is to know where and how to start with. And it is
impossible for the mentors to spoon feed every student and teach everything.

So, I suggest the mentors, to start a blog for themself (for mentorship), to
list out the link urls, useful books and other resources in internet about
the technology, which help the students to self start. And after having some
basic knowledge, the students can do small codings and then personally
contact the mentors.

Suppose, if there are 4 mentors, good in Drupal, they can list the links
suggesting the students to learn prior doing a project with drupal. So the
students can go through the posts of 4 mentors, finds the best which fits
his/her need.

And if the mentors find little more time, they can write posts in their own
language so that the whole student community will be grateful to you.
So, the mentor list will be more useful if it is like,
NAME - EMAIL ID - BLOG ADDRESS - TECHNOLOGY

I personaly give the above opinion as I have spent a lots of time in
searching resources (and couldnt find any resource that starts from basics).
Anyhow there are a lot of experienced professionals and mentors who have
better options and opinions which might be better than that of mine. So,
continue discussing.

Regards,
K.Prawin
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Aanjhan R]

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Vamsee Kanakala  wrote:
> A very good initiative, but I think it needs to be done in a lot more
> organized manner than just listing contacts on a wiki. Perhaps, something

[snip]

>  Say if there are 3 people interested in mentoring in Python, we allow the
> students to submit as many proposals as possible (maybe giving advice on how

Reading through the suggestions, an idea that popped up was to deploy
FSOC (Four Seasons of Code) [1] and register people as
mentors/students. For a sample deployment one can check out the dgplug
website [2].

[1] https://github.com/shreyankg/fsoc
[2] http://fsoc.dgplug.org/

Regards,
Aanjhan
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Re: [Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Vamsee Kanakala]

On Sunday 28 November 2010 06:29 PM, Shrinivasan T wrote:

We can share this link to the college students so that they can choose
their mentors and start contributing.

Share your thoughts.


A very good initiative, but I think it needs to be done in a lot more 
organized manner than just listing contacts on a wiki. Perhaps, 
something like GSoC but with a more general approach. While I have 
always been keen to interact with college students, the kind of 
interaction is almost always "please spoon feed me". I send them almost 
step by step instructions to how to "ask smart questions" and do their 
homework, and most of them will never get back.


Perhaps we should turn it around - since most of us have jobs and our 
time is limited, we can list what platforms/technologies we are willing 
to help with, and ask them to submit ideas - give them ample resources 
to read up and what to ask and how to ask.


 Say if there are 3 people interested in mentoring in Python, we allow 
the students to submit as many proposals as possible (maybe giving 
advice on how to fine-tune it) and pair *1 student with 1 
volunteer/mentor*. So out of maybe 10 project ideas presented, only 3 
will be selected. This puts the onus on students with come up with a 
good idea, and makes them compete for experts' time/attention.


I think this gives the maximum attention to a deserving student, while 
also giving value to the mentor's time.



Vamsee.
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[Ilugc] Mentoring students for Projects

[Shrinivasan T]

Friends.

Most of us will be getting requests from college students for the
topics and mentor-ship for their projects.

For any student, to do some project in the open source world, he/she
needs to learn some basic things like

Linux Installation
Connecting with internet
Joining Mailing lists
Creating filters for mailing lists
Mailing list guidelines
IRC tools and Joining in Channels
Choosing a suitable Project
Learning the language like c,c++,Python,Perl,Ruby,LAMP,Web,Java technologies
Revision Control Systems like svn, git
Documenting the code

and more.

Though they can learn by themself, if we mentor them in the initial
stages of the FOSS contributions,
Their progress will be quicker and they will get more interest to contribute.

Please add your details here.
http://wiki.ilugc.in/index.php?title=Projects_Mentors

We can help students from get in the project and till they start
discussing with main stream project developers.

we can mentor them by online media like mail,chat,irc etc.

We can share this link to the college students so that they can choose
their mentors and start contributing.

Share your thoughts.

Thanks.


--
Regards,
T.Shrinivasan


My Life with GNU/Linux : http://goinggnu.wordpress.com
Free/Open Source Jobs : http://fossjobs.in
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