Re: 2008 imac won't start

[Jim Scott]

I wouldn’t bother with a clean install of Yosemite at this point. Whatever RAM 
you use, make sure both sticks have the same specs and are made by the same 
manufacturer. IOW, a matched pair. RAM from different manufacturers or that 
isn’t perfectly matched can do weird stuff, intermittent and otherwise. The 
most common problem is that each stick will have a different latency, which 
will cause boot hiccups or intermittent freezes.. G3 iMacs were notorious for 
being very picky about needing matched pairs of RAM sticks. 

It’s possible mismatched RAM is one of your problems, but don’t be surprised if 
you install a matched pair and still get no video. Dust buildup inside an iMac 
— or any other electronic device — is like wearing a heavy insulated jacket in 
the middle of August in Florida. It causes heat strokes that kill electronics, 
especially video cards that tend to run hot because of all the juice that flows 
through the micro circuitry.

Jim Scott

> On Mar 31, 2018, at 9:50 PM, fishjoy...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> One other piece of info--
> I can get a startup chime when I use two 1GB RAM cards. The screen will stay 
> black, but I can connect through Teamviewer.
> This is the same when I use either (but not both) of my 2GB RAM cards (so I 
> assume that both of them are good) . Using both of the 2GB RAM cards, I do 
> not get a startup chime, screen stays black, and I cannot connect remotely.
> 
> I do not have the adapter to connect a second monitor to the 08 imac, but I 
> will get one. Once I get one, do you think it would do any good to do a clean 
> install of Yosemite?
> Thanks, 
> Joe
> 
> On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 8:27:21 PM UTC-6, fishj...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> My mom's 2008 iMac with Yosemite and 4 GB RAM will no longer start. (Sorry 
> that I don't more specs, but it won't start)
> When I push the power button, all I hear is a clicking sound near the optical 
> drive. No startup chime.
> 
> What I have tried:
> If I unplug the machine, and remove the two 2GB RAM cards and then try to 
> start, I get the "no RAM present" tone.
> If I then unplug it,  put one of the RAM cards in, and then push the power 
> button, I hear the startup chime, but the screen is dark. 
> 
> I have tried booting from a flash drive with Yosemite, and booting from the 
> AHT disk, but to no avail. 
> 
> The same thing happened last week, and I kept swapping RAM cards out with 
> some old 1 GB RAM cards from a previous machine. Somehow, it eventually 
> started and the screen came on. 
> I was able to run the Apple Hardware Test, which gave this error: 
> 4MOT/2/4004:HDD -1392, and a subsequent running of the AHT gave the same 
> error, with -1384 at the end.
> 
> After searching the internet, some folks said that the error was a HD fan 
> error. Some suggesting vacuuming as much dust out as possible, which I did. 
> Then I ran the AHT again, and it found no errors. 
> I also ran Disk Utility, which found and corrected permissions errors. It did 
> not indicate other problems. 
> 
> The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake it, 
> I got a black and white checked screen. I had to force it to shut down, and 
> now it will not start again. I get the same clicking sound near the optical 
> drive. However, if I pull out one of the RAM cards, I can get a startup 
> chime, but I still have a black screen.
> 
> Any thoughts on this issue, or how to troubleshoot it?
> Thanks!
> Joe
> 
> 
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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[fishjoyner]

One other piece of info--
I can get a startup chime when I use two 1GB RAM cards. The screen will 
stay black, but I can connect through Teamviewer.
This is the same when I use either (but not both) of my 2GB RAM cards (so I 
assume that both of them are good) . Using both of the 2GB RAM cards, I do 
not get a startup chime, screen stays black, and I cannot connect remotely.

I do not have the adapter to connect a second monitor to the 08 imac, but I 
will get one. Once I get one, do you think it would do any good to do a 
clean install of Yosemite?
Thanks, 
Joe

On Monday, March 26, 2018 at 8:27:21 PM UTC-6, fishj...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> My mom's 2008 iMac with Yosemite and 4 GB RAM will no longer start. (Sorry 
> that I don't more specs, but it won't start)
> When I push the power button, all I hear is a clicking sound near the 
> optical drive. No startup chime.
>
> What I have tried:
> If I unplug the machine, and remove the two 2GB RAM cards and then try to 
> start, I get the "no RAM present" tone.
> If I then unplug it,  put one of the RAM cards in, and then push the power 
> button, I hear the startup chime, but the screen is dark. 
>
> I have tried booting from a flash drive with Yosemite, and booting from 
> the AHT disk, but to no avail. 
>
> The same thing happened last week, and I kept swapping RAM cards out with 
> some old 1 GB RAM cards from a previous machine. Somehow, it eventually 
> started and the screen came on. 
> I was able to run the Apple Hardware Test, which gave this error: 
> 4MOT/2/4004:HDD -1392, and a subsequent running of the AHT gave the 
> same error, with -1384 at the end.
>
> After searching the internet, some folks said that the error was a HD fan 
> error. Some suggesting vacuuming as much dust out as possible, which I did. 
> Then I ran the AHT again, and it found no errors. 
> I also ran Disk Utility, which found and corrected permissions errors. It 
> did not indicate other problems. 
>
> The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake 
> it, I got a black and white checked screen. I had to force it to shut down, 
> and now it will not start again. I get the same clicking sound near the 
> optical drive. However, if I pull out one of the RAM cards, I can get a 
> startup chime, but I still have a black screen.
>
> Any thoughts on this issue, or how to troubleshoot it?
> Thanks!
> Joe
>
>

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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[fishjoyner]

Update: 3/30/18: 
First, thanks so much to everyone who has given me suggestions to try. I 
really appreciate all of you taking the time to offer your thoughts.

I opened the iMac up and vacuumed out all of the dust (there was a lot).
It still would not start up when I had both RAM cards in (even if I used 
other RAM cards that I had from a different iMac). 
When I put one RAM card in (didn't matter which slot), I got the startup 
chime. I waited several minutes, but the display was still black. 
However, I WAS able to connect to the machine with TeamViewer now!
I was at least able to pull off all of my documents, pictures, etc. 

I ran Disk Utility Verify Disk--it said that the HD appeared to be OK.
I ran permissions repair, and here is what it said:

Repairing permissions for “Macintosh HD”Permissions differ on 
“System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.meta.plist”;
 
should be -rw-r--r-- ; they are lrw-r--r-- .Repaired 

“System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.meta.plist

”Permissions differ on 
“System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.plist”;
 
should be -rw-r--r-- ; they are lrw-r--r-- .Repaired 

“System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources/XProtect.plist”Permissions
 
differ on 
“Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/Safari.help/Contents/Resources/index.html”;
 
should be lrwxr-xr-x ; they are -rwxr-xr-x .Repaired 

“Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/Safari.help/Contents/Resources/index.html”Warning:
 
SUID file 
“System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent”
 
has been modified and will not be repaired.

Permissions differ on 
“Applications/Safari.app/Contents/MacOS/SafariForWebKitDevelopment”; should 
be -rwxr-xr-x ; they are lrwxr-xr-x .Repaired 
“Applications/Safari.app/Contents/MacOS/SafariForWebKitDevelopment” 

Permissions repair complete


I ran Permissions Repair twice, but both times, it said the info above.


Then I ran EtreCheck. That report is below.


Any other thoughts on what might be wrong?

Thanks so much!

EtreCheck version: 4.1.4 (4A203) 

Report generated: 2018-03-31 20:18:08

Download EtreCheck from https://etrecheck.com

Runtime: 5:51

Performance: Below Average


Problem: Other problem

Description: 

Won’t start up with both RAM sticks installed. Will only start up with one 
RAM stick installed, and even then, the display is dark. I ran EtreCheck by 
using TeamViewer remotely. 


Major Issues:

  Anything that appears on this list needs immediate attention.

  Old operating system - Old operating system versions no longer receive 
security updates.

  Low RAM - This machine has insufficient RAM.

  Obsolete hardware - This machine may be considered obsolete.


Minor Issues:

  These issues do not need immediate attention but they may indicate future 
problems.

  Upgradeable RAM - This machine has upgradeable RAM that would help its 
performance.

  Small backup drive - Time Machine backup drive is too small.

  Unsigned files - There is unsigned software installed. They appear to be 
legitimate but should be reviewed.

  Low performance - EtreCheck report took over 5 minutes to run. This is 
unusual.

  32-bit Apps - This machine has 32-bits apps that may have problems in the 
future.


Hardware Information:

  iMac (24-inch, Early 2008) - Obsolete!

  iMac Model: iMac8,1

  1 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (Duo) CPU: 2-core

  2 RAM Upgradeable

BANK 0/DIMM0

  2 GB DDR2 SDRAM 800  ok

BANK 1/DIMM1

  Empty

Video Information:

  Unknown

Display 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz


Drives:

  disk0 - Hitachi HDP725032GLA380 320.07 GB (Mechanical) 

  Internal SATA 3 Gigabit Serial ATA

disk0s1 - EFI [EFI] 210 MB

disk0s2 - Macintosh HD (Journaled HFS+) 319.21 GB

disk0s3 - Recovery HD [Recovery] 650 MB


  disk1 - SuperDrive 4.94 GB (Unknown) 

  Internal ATAPI


  disk2 - Lexar USB Flash Drive Media 16.00 GB (Unknown) 

  External USB


Mounted Volumes:

  disk0s2 - Macintosh HD 319.21 GB (296.40 GB free)

  Journaled HFS+

  Mount point: /

  

  disk1s3 - A***c 4.94 GB (84 MB free)

  HFS+

  Mount point: /Volumes/Applications Install Disc

  

  disk2s1 - I***e 16.00 GB (10.22 GB free)

  Journaled HFS+

  Mount point: /Volumes/Install OS X Yosemite

  

Network:

  Interface Bluetooth-Modem: Bluetooth DUN

  Interface en0: Ethernet

One IPv4 address

  Interface fw0: FireWire

  Interface en1: Wi-Fi

802.11 a/b/g/n

One IPv4 address

  Interface en2: Bluetooth PAN


System Software:

  OS X Yosemite 10.10.5 (14F2511) 

  Time since boot: About an hour

  System Load: 1.73 (1 min ago) 1.79 (5 min ago) 1.80 (15 min ago)


Security:

  System   Status

  Gatekeeper   Mac App Store and identified developers



Unsigned Files:

  Launchd: /Library/LaunchAgents/org.chromium.chromoting.plist

Executable: 

Re: 2008 imac won't start

['John Carmonne' via iMac Group]

On Mar 31, 2018, at 6:07 PM, fishjoy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi John,
> This sounds intriguing--and like you say, what do I have to lose.
> Although I have worked with Macs for many years, I do not have much 
> experience inside one. 
> Are there photos or videos for the process you describe? I am not even sure 
> what you mean when you say "Take the card off of the heat sink."
> And where do I buy the paste?
> Thanks for your help!
> -Joe
> 

You'll find video card replacement instructions on iFixit site and many others 
in a Google search.  Most Radio Shack stores and most electronic stores have 
thermal paste. BTW you can get the card out without removing the logic board. 
Look at some of the You Tube videos. However someone suggested a couple new RAM 
sticks you may want to try that first.

John


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[fishjoyner]

Hi John,
This sounds intriguing--and like you say, what do I have to lose.
Although I have worked with Macs for many years, I do not have much 
experience inside one. 
Are there photos or videos for the process you describe? I am not even sure 
what you mean when you say "Take the card off of the heat sink."
And where do I buy the paste?
Thanks for your help!
-Joe

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 3:00:36 PM UTC-6, John Carmonne wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2018, at 10:53 AM, Jim Scott wrote: 
>
> > 
> > In the case of your 2008 iMac, in addition to all of the above, the 
> cooling fins of the heat sink can be clogged by dust, etc. over time as the 
> air intake vents directly below the card and heat sink assembly are 
> hoovering up stuff from the desktop. This leads to overheating and eventual 
> failure of the BGA. Reflowing the BGA doesn’t work because by the time the 
> problem shows itself, too many of the microscopic traces inside the chip 
> have been damaged by arcing. That’s why a more permanent repair involves 
> replacing the chip with a new one. But new chips are hard if not impossible 
> to find, and my favorite eBay bad chip repair/replace guy refuses to work 
> on those old iMac video cards because he can’t guarantee a reflow and he 
> can’t obtain new chips that will work with the card. 
> > 
> > Been there, done that a number of times. It’s time to ewaste that iMac, 
> in my experience. 
> > 
> > Jim Scott, Eureka, CA 
> > 
>   
>  I have recently fixed a number of these iMacs may sound crazy but it 
> worked for me. It's free and at this point you have nothing to lose. 
>
> Take the card off the heat sink and clean all the paste off. 
> Pre heat oven to 390 F (pre heat is important) 
> Place card on 4 small aluminum foil balls at the corners 
> Bake for 7 mins 
> Open door and let board cool don't touch it or move it. 
> When cool reinstall (don't forget to apply new paste). 
>
> I have also found some with faulty fans so check the fan working before 
> you put it all back together. 
>
>
>
> John Carmonne 
> Yorba Linda CA 
> 92886 USA 
> MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[Eric Volker]

> On Mar 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, Jim Scott  wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> I gave up on “shadetree” BGA reflows years ago, but YMMV. My reflows worked 
> for a while, then died for good. 
> Another issue with the 2008-era iMacs is that occasionally the “coolant” 
> (ether, I’m told) leaks out of the tubes running to and from the fins and the 
> heat sink proper. Same problem with G4 iMacs, which also are pretty efficient 
> little stationary Hoovers and can choke themselves to overheat death.
> 
> Jim Scott, Eureka, CA
> 

I can confirm that I had a bad GPU heat pipe in my 24” 2007 iMac. The GPU would 
regularly hit  100ºC when doing anything remotely stressful. Rather than fix 
it, I compensated by using Macs Fan Control. It didn’t fix the problem, but got 
enough air flow going inside the chassis to keep the GPU from melting into a 
puddle.

The iMac eventually died from a bad PSU. RIP.

Eric

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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[375GTB .]

I BET it is the RAM

I'd replace BOTH with DDR2 200 pin DIMs

2GB each...

$15 on eBay

That Clicking business sounds like a bad HDD!

The Click Of Death

You want an INDEPENDENT Mac repair shop.

Apple Stores are only for items less than 3 to  4 years old!

J.C.

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Jim Scott  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I gave up on “shadetree” BGA reflows years ago, but YMMV. My reflows
> worked for a while, then died for good.
> Another issue with the 2008-era iMacs is that occasionally the “coolant”
> (ether, I’m told) leaks out of the tubes running to and from the fins and
> the heat sink proper. Same problem with G4 iMacs, which also are pretty
> efficient little stationary Hoovers and can choke themselves to overheat
> death.
>
> Jim Scott, Eureka, CA
>
> > On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:00 PM, 'John Carmonne' via iMac Group <
> imaclist@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 30, 2018, at 10:53 AM, Jim Scott wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In the case of your 2008 iMac, in addition to all of the above, the
> cooling fins of the heat sink can be clogged by dust, etc. over time as the
> air intake vents directly below the card and heat sink assembly are
> hoovering up stuff from the desktop. This leads to overheating and eventual
> failure of the BGA. Reflowing the BGA doesn’t work because by the time the
> problem shows itself, too many of the microscopic traces inside the chip
> have been damaged by arcing. That’s why a more permanent repair involves
> replacing the chip with a new one. But new chips are hard if not impossible
> to find, and my favorite eBay bad chip repair/replace guy refuses to work
> on those old iMac video cards because he can’t guarantee a reflow and he
> can’t obtain new chips that will work with the card.
> >>
> >> Been there, done that a number of times. It’s time to ewaste that iMac,
> in my experience.
> >>
> >> Jim Scott, Eureka, CA
> >>
> >
> > I have recently fixed a number of these iMacs may sound crazy but it
> worked for me. It's free and at this point you have nothing to lose.
> >
> > Take the card off the heat sink and clean all the paste off.
> > Pre heat oven to 390 F (pre heat is important)
> > Place card on 4 small aluminum foil balls at the corners
> > Bake for 7 mins
> > Open door and let board cool don't touch it or move it.
> > When cool reinstall (don't forget to apply new paste).
> >
> > I have also found some with faulty fans so check the fan working before
> you put it all back together.
> >
> >
> >
> > John Carmonne
> > Yorba Linda CA
> > 92886 USA
> > MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem
> >
>
> --
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> group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs.
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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[Jim Scott]

Hi John,

I gave up on “shadetree” BGA reflows years ago, but YMMV. My reflows worked for 
a while, then died for good. 
Another issue with the 2008-era iMacs is that occasionally the “coolant” 
(ether, I’m told) leaks out of the tubes running to and from the fins and the 
heat sink proper. Same problem with G4 iMacs, which also are pretty efficient 
little stationary Hoovers and can choke themselves to overheat death.

Jim Scott, Eureka, CA

> On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:00 PM, 'John Carmonne' via iMac Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mar 30, 2018, at 10:53 AM, Jim Scott wrote:
> 
>> 
>> In the case of your 2008 iMac, in addition to all of the above, the cooling 
>> fins of the heat sink can be clogged by dust, etc. over time as the air 
>> intake vents directly below the card and heat sink assembly are hoovering up 
>> stuff from the desktop. This leads to overheating and eventual failure of 
>> the BGA. Reflowing the BGA doesn’t work because by the time the problem 
>> shows itself, too many of the microscopic traces inside the chip have been 
>> damaged by arcing. That’s why a more permanent repair involves replacing the 
>> chip with a new one. But new chips are hard if not impossible to find, and 
>> my favorite eBay bad chip repair/replace guy refuses to work on those old 
>> iMac video cards because he can’t guarantee a reflow and he can’t obtain new 
>> chips that will work with the card.
>> 
>> Been there, done that a number of times. It’s time to ewaste that iMac, in 
>> my experience.
>> 
>> Jim Scott, Eureka, CA
>> 
> 
> I have recently fixed a number of these iMacs may sound crazy but it worked 
> for me. It's free and at this point you have nothing to lose.
> 
> Take the card off the heat sink and clean all the paste off.
> Pre heat oven to 390 F (pre heat is important)
> Place card on 4 small aluminum foil balls at the corners
> Bake for 7 mins
> Open door and let board cool don't touch it or move it.
> When cool reinstall (don't forget to apply new paste).
> 
> I have also found some with faulty fans so check the fan working before you 
> put it all back together.
> 
> 
> 
> John Carmonne
> Yorba Linda CA
> 92886 USA
> MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem
> 

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Re: 2008 imac won't start

['John Carmonne' via iMac Group]

On Mar 30, 2018, at 10:53 AM, Jim Scott wrote:

> 
> In the case of your 2008 iMac, in addition to all of the above, the cooling 
> fins of the heat sink can be clogged by dust, etc. over time as the air 
> intake vents directly below the card and heat sink assembly are hoovering up 
> stuff from the desktop. This leads to overheating and eventual failure of the 
> BGA. Reflowing the BGA doesn’t work because by the time the problem shows 
> itself, too many of the microscopic traces inside the chip have been damaged 
> by arcing. That’s why a more permanent repair involves replacing the chip 
> with a new one. But new chips are hard if not impossible to find, and my 
> favorite eBay bad chip repair/replace guy refuses to work on those old iMac 
> video cards because he can’t guarantee a reflow and he can’t obtain new chips 
> that will work with the card.
> 
> Been there, done that a number of times. It’s time to ewaste that iMac, in my 
> experience.
> 
> Jim Scott, Eureka, CA
> 
 
 I have recently fixed a number of these iMacs may sound crazy but it worked 
for me. It's free and at this point you have nothing to lose.

Take the card off the heat sink and clean all the paste off.
Pre heat oven to 390 F (pre heat is important)
Place card on 4 small aluminum foil balls at the corners
Bake for 7 mins
Open door and let board cool don't touch it or move it.
When cool reinstall (don't forget to apply new paste).

I have also found some with faulty fans so check the fan working before you put 
it all back together.



John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[Jim Scott]

It’s the video daughtercard. A bad/faulty/dying video card will thwart boot. 
The RAM card thing makes sense because only one stick makes it easier for the 
EFI boot sequence to progress to a startup chime. Or, there’s a conflict 
between the two sticks that wasn’t apparent until now. Or both. The AHT does 
not detect a faulty video card; it only detects the presence or absence of that 
card. The only way to be certain it’s the video card is to replace it with a 
known good one. Good luck finding one of those today.

iMacs of that vintage are notorious for failing/failed video cards. It’s 
amazing yours lasted this long. The problem is basically the same one that 
affected G3 white iBooks and many G4 iBooks and PowerBooks. Many newer laptops 
made by Apple … and devices made by other manufacturers … also are affected. 
It’s a failing of the solder joints holding the video chip to the board. The 
technique for affixing the hundreds of tiny solder balls to the chip and thence 
to the board is known as BGA or Ball Grid Array. Thus sometimes a video problem 
can be corrected by reflowing the solder. But if the solder is bad, or the 
board flexes (G3 white iBooks, with their 50+ screws holding all the bits and 
pieces together, were notorious for this; the advent of aluminum and plastic 
Unibody cases helped), or too many heat up/cool down cycles are experienced, 
the chip will come loose again anyway. 

In the case of your 2008 iMac, in addition to all of the above, the cooling 
fins of the heat sink can be clogged by dust, etc. over time as the air intake 
vents directly below the card and heat sink assembly are hoovering up stuff 
from the desktop. This leads to overheating and eventual failure of the BGA. 
Reflowing the BGA doesn’t work because by the time the problem shows itself, 
too many of the microscopic traces inside the chip have been damaged by arcing. 
That’s why a more permanent repair involves replacing the chip with a new one. 
But new chips are hard if not impossible to find, and my favorite eBay bad chip 
repair/replace guy refuses to work on those old iMac video cards because he 
can’t guarantee a reflow and he can’t obtain new chips that will work with the 
card.

Been there, done that a number of times. It’s time to ewaste that iMac, in my 
experience.

Jim Scott, Eureka, CA

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 6:11 PM, fishjoy...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the idea. However, this one (a 24" also) will not boot into Safe 
> mode.
> In fact, I cannot get even a startup chime unless I pull one of the RAM cards 
> out. It doesn't matter whether the left one is in or the right one is in, if 
> I only have one RAM card in, it will produce the startup chime. However, I 
> still have a black screen. 
> 
> I did try to set up an appointment at an Apple store, but since it is 10 
> years old, they would not look at it. 
> 
> A couple of questions:
>   • If it is the video card, does the RAM card thing make any sense?
>   • If the video card was going out, should the Apple Hardware Test have 
> told me that when I ran it last week?
>   • Is there any way to be certain that the problem is the video card?
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 8:11:50 AM UTC-6, ValterV wrote:
> Il giorno 27/03/18 03:17, "fishj...@gmail.com" ha scritto: 
> 
> > The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake 
> > it, I got a black and white checked screen. 
> Bummer. That screen makes me think about a damaged video card. 
> 
> I had a similar issue with an Early 2008 24" iMac: red vertical stripes 
> appeared all over the screen (bad video card), and the iMac froze on 
> startup. 
> 
> When I tried to boot in Safe mode, though (hold Shift key during startup), 
> it did boot up. So I thought the video drivers were conflicting with the 
> (now) bad video card, hence the freeze at boot. 
> I disabled all of the drivers, and the iMac would boot fine (although screen 
> redraw was sometimes slow). 
> 
> You can try booting in Safe mode and, if working, you may try my workaround. 
> 
> Here's what I did: 
> - Remove all AMD/ATI kexts in /System/Library/Extensions 
> (it depends on your video card maker and model; mine was ATI Radeon 2600) 
> - Terminal: Touch "System/Library/Extensions" 
> - Delete "System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches" (in Finder) 
> - Reboot 
> 
> I wrote more details here: 
> http://www.mac-forums.com/apple-desktops/341784-imac-vertical-lines-screen-f 
> rezees-boot.html#post1762659 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs.
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> guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[GMail Valter Psicof]

Il giorno 28/03/18 03:11, "fishjoy...@gmail.com" ha scritto:

> In fact, I cannot get even a startup chime unless I pull one of the RAM
> cards out. 
Ok, so it definitely has some RAM issue.
Maybe a video card issue, too, but of course that comes later.

> It doesn't matter whether the left one is in or the right one is
> in, if I only have one RAM card in, it will produce the startup chime.
If you get the chime with either RAM chip, but not with both, it might be
the RAM itself is fine (although I would test with other RAM modules to be
sure), but the RAM slots and/or controller have issues.

> However, I still have a black screen.
That could depend on a video card issue, or still a RAM issue (e.g. if the
RAM controller is faulty, maybe it pass the first tests but then hangs up
later).

Or, it could be the screen (monitor) is dead, if nothing ever appears on it.
Do you have an external monitor to connect?

>- If it is the video card, does the RAM card thing make any sense?
IMO, there's some issues with the RAM part, regardless of the video card.

>- If the video card was going out, should the Apple Hardware Test have
>told me that when I ran it last week?
Keep in mind AHT is not omniscient: some faults are intermittent, or AHT
cannot detect them all.

>- Is there any way to be certain that the problem is the video card?
Until you solve the RAM issue (so you can boot), I don't think so.

Afterwards, once you are able to boot, you might connect an external monitor
to check whether the issue is video card- or monitor- related.
And you could try my trick to boot into Safe mode to delve deeper.


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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[Julia Brinckloe]

I recall a similar issue I had and I merely replaced the RAM sticks. Also
maxed out the RAM while I was at it. Problem solved.

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:

> Thanks for the idea. However, this one (a 24" also) will not boot into
> Safe mode.
> In fact, I cannot get even a startup chime unless I pull one of the RAM
> cards out. It doesn't matter whether the left one is in or the right one is
> in, if I only have one RAM card in, it will produce the startup chime.
> However, I still have a black screen.
>
> I did try to set up an appointment at an Apple store, but since it is 10
> years old, they would not look at it.
>
> A couple of questions:
>
>- If it is the video card, does the RAM card thing make any sense?
>- If the video card was going out, should the Apple Hardware Test have
>told me that when I ran it last week?
>- Is there any way to be certain that the problem is the video card?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 8:11:50 AM UTC-6, ValterV wrote:
>>
>> Il giorno 27/03/18 03:17, "fishj...@gmail.com" ha scritto:
>>
>> > The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to
>> wake
>> > it, I got a black and white checked screen.
>> Bummer. That screen makes me think about a damaged video card.
>>
>> I had a similar issue with an Early 2008 24" iMac: red vertical stripes
>> appeared all over the screen (bad video card), and the iMac froze on
>> startup.
>>
>> When I tried to boot in Safe mode, though (hold Shift key during
>> startup),
>> it did boot up. So I thought the video drivers were conflicting with the
>> (now) bad video card, hence the freeze at boot.
>> I disabled all of the drivers, and the iMac would boot fine (although
>> screen
>> redraw was sometimes slow).
>>
>> You can try booting in Safe mode and, if working, you may try my
>> workaround.
>>
>> Here's what I did:
>> - Remove all AMD/ATI kexts in /System/Library/Extensions
>> (it depends on your video card maker and model; mine was ATI Radeon 2600)
>> - Terminal: Touch "System/Library/Extensions"
>> - Delete "System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches" (in Finder)
>> - Reboot
>>
>> I wrote more details here:
>> http://www.mac-forums.com/apple-desktops/341784-imac-vertical-lines-screen-f
>>
>> rezees-boot.html#post1762659
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[fishjoyner]

Thanks for the idea. However, this one (a 24" also) will not boot into Safe 
mode.
In fact, I cannot get even a startup chime unless I pull one of the RAM 
cards out. It doesn't matter whether the left one is in or the right one is 
in, if I only have one RAM card in, it will produce the startup chime. 
However, I still have a black screen. 

I did try to set up an appointment at an Apple store, but since it is 10 
years old, they would not look at it. 

A couple of questions:

   - If it is the video card, does the RAM card thing make any sense?
   - If the video card was going out, should the Apple Hardware Test have 
   told me that when I ran it last week?
   - Is there any way to be certain that the problem is the video card?

Thanks!

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 8:11:50 AM UTC-6, ValterV wrote:
>
> Il giorno 27/03/18 03:17, "fishj...@gmail.com " ha scritto: 
>
> > The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake 
> > it, I got a black and white checked screen. 
> Bummer. That screen makes me think about a damaged video card. 
>
> I had a similar issue with an Early 2008 24" iMac: red vertical stripes 
> appeared all over the screen (bad video card), and the iMac froze on 
> startup. 
>
> When I tried to boot in Safe mode, though (hold Shift key during startup), 
> it did boot up. So I thought the video drivers were conflicting with the 
> (now) bad video card, hence the freeze at boot. 
> I disabled all of the drivers, and the iMac would boot fine (although 
> screen 
> redraw was sometimes slow). 
>
> You can try booting in Safe mode and, if working, you may try my 
> workaround. 
>
> Here's what I did: 
> - Remove all AMD/ATI kexts in /System/Library/Extensions 
> (it depends on your video card maker and model; mine was ATI Radeon 2600) 
> - Terminal: Touch "System/Library/Extensions" 
> - Delete "System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches" (in Finder) 
> - Reboot 
>
> I wrote more details here: 
> http://www.mac-forums.com/apple-desktops/341784-imac-vertical-lines-screen-f 
>
> rezees-boot.html#post1762659 
> 
>  
>
>
>
>

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Re: 2008 imac won't start

[GMail Valter Psicof]

Il giorno 27/03/18 03:17, "fishjoy...@gmail.com" ha scritto:

> The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake
> it, I got a black and white checked screen.
Bummer. That screen makes me think about a damaged video card.

I had a similar issue with an Early 2008 24" iMac: red vertical stripes
appeared all over the screen (bad video card), and the iMac froze on
startup.

When I tried to boot in Safe mode, though (hold Shift key during startup),
it did boot up. So I thought the video drivers were conflicting with the
(now) bad video card, hence the freeze at boot.
I disabled all of the drivers, and the iMac would boot fine (although screen
redraw was sometimes slow).

You can try booting in Safe mode and, if working, you may try my workaround.

Here's what I did:
- Remove all AMD/ATI kexts in /System/Library/Extensions
(it depends on your video card maker and model; mine was ATI Radeon 2600)
- Terminal: Touch "System/Library/Extensions"
- Delete "System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches" (in Finder)
- Reboot 

I wrote more details here:
http://www.mac-forums.com/apple-desktops/341784-imac-vertical-lines-screen-f
rezees-boot.html#post1762659



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Re: 2008 imac won't start

['John Carmonne' via iMac Group]

On Mar 26, 2018, at 6:17 PM, fishjoy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> My mom's 2008 iMac with Yosemite and 4 GB RAM will no longer start. (Sorry 
> that I don't more specs, but it won't start)
> When I push the power button, all I hear is a clicking sound near the optical 
> drive. No startup chime.
>  
> 
> The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake it, 
> I got a black and white checked screen. I had to force it to shut down, and 
> now it will not start again. I get the same clicking sound near the optical 
> drive. However, if I pull out one of the RAM cards, I can get a startup 
> chime, but I still have a black screen.
> 
> Any thoughts on this issue, or how to troubleshoot it?
> Thanks!
> Joe
> 

Sounds like video card to me.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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2008 imac won't start

[fishjoyner]

Hi all,
My mom's 2008 iMac with Yosemite and 4 GB RAM will no longer start. (Sorry 
that I don't more specs, but it won't start)
When I push the power button, all I hear is a clicking sound near the 
optical drive. No startup chime.

What I have tried:
If I unplug the machine, and remove the two 2GB RAM cards and then try to 
start, I get the "no RAM present" tone.
If I then unplug it,  put one of the RAM cards in, and then push the power 
button, I hear the startup chime, but the screen is dark. 

I have tried booting from a flash drive with Yosemite, and booting from the 
AHT disk, but to no avail. 

The same thing happened last week, and I kept swapping RAM cards out with 
some old 1 GB RAM cards from a previous machine. Somehow, it eventually 
started and the screen came on. 
I was able to run the Apple Hardware Test, which gave this error: 
4MOT/2/4004:HDD -1392, and a subsequent running of the AHT gave the 
same error, with -1384 at the end.

After searching the internet, some folks said that the error was a HD fan 
error. Some suggesting vacuuming as much dust out as possible, which I did. 
Then I ran the AHT again, and it found no errors. 
I also ran Disk Utility, which found and corrected permissions errors. It 
did not indicate other problems. 

The machine worked fine for about a week, but today when I tried to wake 
it, I got a black and white checked screen. I had to force it to shut down, 
and now it will not start again. I get the same clicking sound near the 
optical drive. However, if I pull out one of the RAM cards, I can get a 
startup chime, but I still have a black screen.

Any thoughts on this issue, or how to troubleshoot it?
Thanks!
Joe

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