Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bruce Johnson]

“It just works!” :-) Glad it’s working!!!

On Jan 19, 2021, at 7:13 PM, Bill Spencer 
mailto:wspen...@jhu.edu>> wrote:

Well, I have no idea how it happened, but the iTunes drive is already getting 
backed up. So I bothered you for nothing, more or less. Thanks! Bill

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 1:45:49 PM UTC-5 
john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:


On Jan 18, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Bill Spencer  wrote:

I have reformatted the backup drive and set TM to back up the internal HD to 
it, but how do I point the live external iTunes folder to the backup drive 
also? I can't see any way to do that. Thanks again! me


The directions are here: 
https://www.macworld.com/article/3153995/how-to-make-sure-time-machine-backs-up-external-drives.html

Time Machine automatically puts external HD’s on the exclusion list, so you 
have to remove the iTunes drive from there before you can include the iTunes in 
the backup.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bill Spencer]

Well, I have no idea how it happened, but the iTunes drive is already 
getting backed up. So I bothered you for nothing, more or less. Thanks! Bill

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 1:45:49 PM UTC-5 
john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

>
>
> On Jan 18, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Bill Spencer  wrote:
>
> I have reformatted the backup drive and set TM to back up the internal HD 
> to it, but how do I point the live external iTunes folder to the backup 
> drive also? I can't see any way to do that. Thanks again! me
>
>
>
> The directions are here: 
> https://www.macworld.com/article/3153995/how-to-make-sure-time-machine-backs-up-external-drives.html
>  
>
> Time Machine automatically puts external HD’s on the exclusion list, so 
> you have to remove the iTunes drive from there before you can include the 
> iTunes in the backup.
>
>
> -- 
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
>

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Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 18, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Bill Spencer 
mailto:wspen...@jhu.edu>> wrote:

I have reformatted the backup drive and set TM to back up the internal HD to 
it, but how do I point the live external iTunes folder to the backup drive 
also? I can't see any way to do that. Thanks again! me


The directions are here: 
https://www.macworld.com/article/3153995/how-to-make-sure-time-machine-backs-up-external-drives.html

Time Machine automatically puts external HD’s on the exclusion list, so you 
have to remove the iTunes drive from there before you can include the iTunes in 
the backup.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bill Spencer]

I have reformatted the backup drive and set TM to back up the internal HD 
to it, but how do I point the live external iTunes folder to the backup 
drive also? I can't see any way to do that. Thanks again! me

On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 3:16:29 PM UTC-5 
john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

>
>
> On Jan 17, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Bill Spencer  wrote:
>
> Thank you both for this information. Unfortunately I am not in a position 
> to buy another external HD so I will have to manage with what I have. In 
> reading through your comments, I realized that there's no need for the 
> iTunes backup to be in a separate partition (at least, I think this is so); 
> I have no idea why I set things up that way originally. (I continue to 
> refer to "iTunes" even though it's not called that anymore...one cannot 
> usually teach old dogs new tricks.) Here's what I think I'll do, subject to 
> your better advice: 
>
>1. Reformat the backup drive to APFS without a partition
>2. Set up Time Machine to back up the main HD to the newly-formatted 
>external HD
>3. Copy the contents of the current iTunes drive to the 
>newly-formatted backup drive.
>4. Reformat the current iTunes drive to the new format
>5. Copy the backed-up iTunes material back to the newly-reformatted 
>external iTunes drive
>6. Set up Time Machine to back up the external iTunes drive to the 
>newly-formatted external HD
>
> Will this approach work? Or, what do I need to change in that proposal? 
> Again, my thanks for your input. Bill
>
>
> To re-aquaint myself with the original problem: you have your iTunes stuff 
> on an external drive by itself, and a backup drive that was used by CCC to 
> back up the iTunes volume and internal HD’s as separate volumes? You never 
> actually specified what was on each external volume.
>
> if it’s like this:
> external Disk 1: iTunes
> external Disk 2:Partition 1  existing CCC internal backup, partition 
> 2 existing CCC itunes backup 
>
> 1) reformat backup drive as a single partition. I do not know if the OS 
> lets you format hard drives as APFS, but it will be offered as an option if 
> so. (Remember, drive reformats like this are done at the Physical disk 
> level in Disk Utility the one named Seagate or WD something something, not 
> the Volume level)
>
> 2) Set this newly formatted volume as your Time Machine volume and point 
> both the internal HD and external iTunes **folder** to it for backing up.
>
> No need to be copying back and forth like you were planning.
>
> OTOH if the partition drive is your internal backup and your ‘live’ iTunes 
> volume, I’d reformat the remaining one copy the live iTunes to it and then 
> reformat the whole new backup drive as a single volume and then point the 
> internal HD and the iTunes folder on the (now) external iTunes volume to 
> Time Machine.
>
> Time machine isn’t picky about the drive formatting it’s backing up, just 
> the formatting of it’s drive.
>
> -- 
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
>
>

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Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 17, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Bill Spencer 
mailto:wspen...@jhu.edu>> wrote:

Thank you both for this information. Unfortunately I am not in a position to 
buy another external HD so I will have to manage with what I have. In reading 
through your comments, I realized that there's no need for the iTunes backup to 
be in a separate partition (at least, I think this is so); I have no idea why I 
set things up that way originally. (I continue to refer to "iTunes" even though 
it's not called that anymore...one cannot usually teach old dogs new tricks.) 
Here's what I think I'll do, subject to your better advice:

  1.  Reformat the backup drive to APFS without a partition
  2.  Set up Time Machine to back up the main HD to the newly-formatted 
external HD
  3.  Copy the contents of the current iTunes drive to the newly-formatted 
backup drive.
  4.  Reformat the current iTunes drive to the new format
  5.  Copy the backed-up iTunes material back to the newly-reformatted external 
iTunes drive
  6.  Set up Time Machine to back up the external iTunes drive to the 
newly-formatted external HD

Will this approach work? Or, what do I need to change in that proposal? Again, 
my thanks for your input. Bill

To re-aquaint myself with the original problem: you have your iTunes stuff on 
an external drive by itself, and a backup drive that was used by CCC to back up 
the iTunes volume and internal HD’s as separate volumes? You never actually 
specified what was on each external volume.

if it’s like this:
external Disk 1: iTunes
external Disk 2:Partition 1  existing CCC internal backup, partition 2 existing 
CCC itunes backup

1) reformat backup drive as a single partition. I do not know if the OS lets 
you format hard drives as APFS, but it will be offered as an option if so. 
(Remember, drive reformats like this are done at the Physical disk level in 
Disk Utility the one named Seagate or WD something something, not the Volume 
level)

2) Set this newly formatted volume as your Time Machine volume and point both 
the internal HD and external iTunes **folder** to it for backing up.

No need to be copying back and forth like you were planning.

OTOH if the partition drive is your internal backup and your ‘live’ iTunes 
volume, I’d reformat the remaining one copy the live iTunes to it and then 
reformat the whole new backup drive as a single volume and then point the 
internal HD and the iTunes folder on the (now) external iTunes volume to Time 
Machine.

Time machine isn’t picky about the drive formatting it’s backing up, just the 
formatting of it’s drive.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bill Spencer]

2. Connect the drive to a USB port on your AirPort base station, then 
>turn it on.
>3. Open AirPort Utility, then select your base station and click Edit 
>to view its settings.
>4. Click the Disks tab in the settings window.
>5. Select your backup disk from the list of partitions, then select 
>“Enable file sharing”: 
>[image: AirPort Utility window Disks tab with "Enable file sharing" 
>turned on]
>6. If more than one user on your network will back up to this disk 
>with Time Machine, you can use the Secure Shared Disks pop-up menu to make 
>sure that they can view only their own backups, not yours. Choose “With 
>accounts” from the menu, then click the add button (+) to add users.
>7. Click Update to restart your base station and apply the settings.
>
> --
> AirPort Time Capsule
>
> Time Machine can back up to the built-in hard disk of an AirPort Time 
> Capsule on your network.
>
>  
> --
> Learn more
>
>- How to back up your Mac with Time Machine 
><https://support.apple.com/kb/HT201250>
>- Time Machine can't back up to a disk formatted for Windows, or to an 
>iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch.
>
> Published Date: November 12, 2020
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 4:59 PM Bruce Johnson  
> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 1, 2021, at 12:57 PM, William Spencer  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi there: I’ve got Big Sur installed now, and I’m hoping to be able to 
>> use Time Machine to do my backing up rather than Carbon Copy Cloner, which 
>> is what I’ve been using for quite a while now. But I can’t see how to 
>> configure TM to do what I need. Here’s the setup: 
>>
>>- I have three physical HDs, one internal to the Mini and two 
>>external.
>>- One of the externals is partitioned, so the system actually thinks 
>>I have four HDs. 
>>- The idea is to back up the internal to one partition and the 
>>standalone external to the other partition.
>>
>>  Time Machine is a real ‘fire and forget’ backup system…you turn it on 
>> and you don’t have to fuss with it ever again.
>>
>> Time machine backs up the booted volume (plus any mounted external 
>> volume, optionally, see link below)
>>
>> IS the standalone external another bootable drive? Then, unfortunately 
>> what I would do is back it up with CCC (or it’s own Time Machine 
>> Configuration while booted) That way you can do the back up internal to one 
>> partition, the external to another. and be able to recover them both as 
>> bootable drives; you cannot use a bootable volume backed up as a mounted 
>> external drive in Migration Assistant (which is how you restore an entire 
>> volume from Time Machine)
>>
>>
>>- TM isn’t showing me one of the (partitioned) HDs as a possible 
>>destination for a backup.
>>
>> Likely it is because it’s not the correct format (see below)
>>
>>
>>- It also isn’t showing me the internal HD as a source.
>>
>> You don’t select a source in Time Machine. It backs up the currently 
>> booted volume. By default it excludes external drives but you can undo that 
>> in the preferences: 
>> https://www.macworld.com/article/3153995/how-to-make-sure-time-machine-backs-up-external-drives.html
>>  (you 
>> can also exclude items on the boot drive that way as well. My email 
>> folders, for example are excluded, because all my email “lives” on the 
>> server, so restoring my email is merely a matter gdropping the account, 
>> re-adding it and re-synching the folders.
>>
>> This doesn’t work if you use POP or have local non-synched folder (they 
>> show as ‘On my Mac’ in the list in Mail)
>>
>>
>>- The two it's showing (which are for what used to be called iTunes, 
>>one the source and the other the destination) are formatted as Mac OS 
>>Extended (Journaled); the two it isn’t showing (for the HD itself, ditto) 
>>are formatted as APFS.
>>
>>
>> I”m not sure why, Big Sur is supposed to use APFS fro Time Machine, at 
>> least per the Ars Techhnica Big Review: 
>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/macos-11-0-big-sur-the-ars-technica-review/9/#h1
>>  
>>
>>
>>- Is that difference in format a (or the) issue?
>>- If I reformat anything I will lose all that data, as you know.
>>- How can I proceed?
>>
>> Honestly, what I would do is purchase a new larger external HDD (mine is 
>> a 4TB one I got at Costco for ~$80-$90 I think, on sale) and set it up as 
&g

Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bruce Rubin]

gt;
>- I have three physical HDs, one internal to the Mini and two external.
>- One of the externals is partitioned, so the system actually thinks I
>have four HDs.
>- The idea is to back up the internal to one partition and the
>standalone external to the other partition.
>
>  Time Machine is a real ‘fire and forget’ backup system…you turn it on and
> you don’t have to fuss with it ever again.
>
> Time machine backs up the booted volume (plus any mounted external volume,
> optionally, see link below)
>
> IS the standalone external another bootable drive? Then, unfortunately
> what I would do is back it up with CCC (or it’s own Time Machine
> Configuration while booted) That way you can do the back up internal to one
> partition, the external to another. and be able to recover them both as
> bootable drives; you cannot use a bootable volume backed up as a mounted
> external drive in Migration Assistant (which is how you restore an entire
> volume from Time Machine)
>
>
>- TM isn’t showing me one of the (partitioned) HDs as a possible
>destination for a backup.
>
> Likely it is because it’s not the correct format (see below)
>
>
>- It also isn’t showing me the internal HD as a source.
>
> You don’t select a source in Time Machine. It backs up the currently
> booted volume. By default it excludes external drives but you can undo that
> in the preferences:
> https://www.macworld.com/article/3153995/how-to-make-sure-time-machine-backs-up-external-drives.html
>  (you
> can also exclude items on the boot drive that way as well. My email
> folders, for example are excluded, because all my email “lives” on the
> server, so restoring my email is merely a matter gdropping the account,
> re-adding it and re-synching the folders.
>
> This doesn’t work if you use POP or have local non-synched folder (they
> show as ‘On my Mac’ in the list in Mail)
>
>
>- The two it's showing (which are for what used to be called iTunes,
>one the source and the other the destination) are formatted as Mac OS
>Extended (Journaled); the two it isn’t showing (for the HD itself, ditto)
>are formatted as APFS.
>
>
> I”m not sure why, Big Sur is supposed to use APFS fro Time Machine, at
> least per the Ars Techhnica Big Review:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/macos-11-0-big-sur-the-ars-technica-review/9/#h1
>
>
>
>- Is that difference in format a (or the) issue?
>- If I reformat anything I will lose all that data, as you know.
>- How can I proceed?
>
> Honestly, what I would do is purchase a new larger external HDD (mine is a
> 4TB one I got at Costco for ~$80-$90 I think, on sale) and set it up as one
> or two time machine volumes. (depending on why you want those two drives
> backed up to different partitions)
>
> Time Machine is a multi-point backup/restore system (It’s been a very long
> time since I've used CCC for this purpose) It maintains a database of
> changed files and folders and only backs up the changes as it goes. So you
> want to have (imo) at a minimum 2X your backed up data as free space, 3X is
> closer to optimal.
>
> So I’d look at how much you have to back up to start, and size it from
> there.
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a
> group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs.
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> .
>

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Re: Time Machine configuration...?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 1, 2021, at 12:57 PM, William Spencer 
mailto:wspence...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi there: I’ve got Big Sur installed now, and I’m hoping to be able to use Time 
Machine to do my backing up rather than Carbon Copy Cloner, which is what I’ve 
been using for quite a while now. But I can’t see how to configure TM to do 
what I need. Here’s the setup:

  *   I have three physical HDs, one internal to the Mini and two external.
  *   One of the externals is partitioned, so the system actually thinks I have 
four HDs.
  *   The idea is to back up the internal to one partition and the standalone 
external to the other partition.

 Time Machine is a real ‘fire and forget’ backup system…you turn it on and you 
don’t have to fuss with it ever again.

Time machine backs up the booted volume (plus any mounted external volume, 
optionally, see link below)

IS the standalone external another bootable drive? Then, unfortunately what I 
would do is back it up with CCC (or it’s own Time Machine Configuration while 
booted) That way you can do the back up internal to one partition, the external 
to another. and be able to recover them both as bootable drives; you cannot use 
a bootable volume backed up as a mounted external drive in Migration Assistant 
(which is how you restore an entire volume from Time Machine)

  *   TM isn’t showing me one of the (partitioned) HDs as a possible 
destination for a backup.

Likely it is because it’s not the correct format (see below)


  *   It also isn’t showing me the internal HD as a source.

You don’t select a source in Time Machine. It backs up the currently booted 
volume. By default it excludes external drives but you can undo that in the 
preferences: 
https://www.macworld.com/article/3153995/how-to-make-sure-time-machine-backs-up-external-drives.html
 (you can also exclude items on the boot drive that way as well. My email 
folders, for example are excluded, because all my email “lives” on the server, 
so restoring my email is merely a matter gdropping the account, re-adding it 
and re-synching the folders.

This doesn’t work if you use POP or have local non-synched folder (they show as 
‘On my Mac’ in the list in Mail)

  *   The two it's showing (which are for what used to be called iTunes, one 
the source and the other the destination) are formatted as Mac OS Extended 
(Journaled); the two it isn’t showing (for the HD itself, ditto) are formatted 
as APFS.

I”m not sure why, Big Sur is supposed to use APFS fro Time Machine, at least 
per the Ars Techhnica Big Review: 
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/macos-11-0-big-sur-the-ars-technica-review/9/#h1


  *   Is that difference in format a (or the) issue?
  *   If I reformat anything I will lose all that data, as you know.
  *   How can I proceed?

Honestly, what I would do is purchase a new larger external HDD (mine is a 4TB 
one I got at Costco for ~$80-$90 I think, on sale) and set it up as one or two 
time machine volumes. (depending on why you want those two drives backed up to 
different partitions)

Time Machine is a multi-point backup/restore system (It’s been a very long time 
since I've used CCC for this purpose) It maintains a database of changed files 
and folders and only backs up the changes as it goes. So you want to have (imo) 
at a minimum 2X your backed up data as free space, 3X is closer to optimal.

So I’d look at how much you have to back up to start, and size it from there.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


-- 
You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group 
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Time Machine configuration...?

[William Spencer]

Hi there: I’ve got Big Sur installed now, and I’m hoping to be able to use Time 
Machine to do my backing up rather than Carbon Copy Cloner, which is what I’ve 
been using for quite a while now. But I can’t see how to configure TM to do 
what I need. Here’s the setup:
I have three physical HDs, one internal to the Mini and two external.
One of the externals is partitioned, so the system actually thinks I have four 
HDs. 
The idea is to back up the internal to one partition and the standalone 
external to the other partition.
TM isn’t showing me one of the (partitioned) HDs as a possible destination for 
a backup.
It also isn’t showing me the internal HD as a source.
The two it's showing (which are for what used to be called iTunes, one the 
source and the other the destination) are formatted as Mac OS Extended 
(Journaled); the two it isn’t showing (for the HD itself, ditto) are formatted 
as APFS.
Is that difference in format a (or the) issue?
If I reformat anything I will lose all that data, as you know.
How can I proceed?
Thanks for any insight, and happy new year!


***

Bill Spencer in Maryland
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz i5/11.1

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