[efloraofindia:358289] Fwd: [itpmods:14622] Fwd: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense

[J.M. Garg]

-- Forwarded message -
From: J.M. Garg 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 12:28
Subject: Re: [itpmods:14622] Fwd: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense
To: Gurcharan Singh 
Cc: itpmods 


Thanks a lot, Singh ji.
I will look at our observations based on this.

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 12:20, Gurcharan Singh  wrote:

> Garg ji
> Verbascum coromandelianum (Vahl) Kuntze as understood as distinct species
> is described in FBI as V. celsioides Benth. It will have 5 stamens but
> sometimes 4 (hence confusion), lower leaves are pinnatisect , 4-6 inch long
> (lyrate-pinnatifid, 2-4 inch long in chinense), pedicels 12-20 mm long
> (only 4-8 mm long in Chinense), filaments woolly (hairy in chinense)
> All three are described in FBI, we can always find from there.
>
>
>
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Mob: 9810359089
> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM J.M. Garg  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Singh ji,
>> I am asking for the difference between *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus)
>> Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) Kuntze.
>>
>> Flora of China
>>  
>> mentions
>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum
>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them (*Verbascum
>> chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl)
>> Kuntze)) as independent species.
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 09:58, Gurcharan Singh  wrote:
>>
>>> Verbascum chinense is what was described in Flora of British India as
>>> Celsia coromandelianum
>>> Differences are so obvious
>>> V. thapsus: stamens 5, basal leaves not divided, cauline strongly
>>> decurrent, densely woolly
>>> V. chinensis: stamens 4, basal leaves lyrate-pinnatifid, cauline not
>>> decurrent, not densely woolly.
>>> The species are well represented on Flowers of India
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>>> Retired  Associate Professor
>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
>>> Mob: 9810359089
>>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:18 AM J.M. Garg  wrote:
>>>
 Hi, Anil ji,
 Flora of China
  
 mentions
 *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum
 coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them 
 (*Verbascum
 chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl)
 Kuntze)) as independent species.
 We do not know the difference between the two.


 On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 08:26, Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur <
 anilthakur2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You are right, Garg ji
> But the confusion arises when one data base considers some species as
> accepted and the  other as a synonym of some other name.
> Regards
>
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020, 7:16 am J.M. Garg,  wrote:
>
>> Hi, Anil ji,
>> POWO is not the ultimate solution. Catalogue of Life is far ahead in
>> many families, particularly those which are not there in WCSP from Kew.
>> Both needs to consulted simultaneously where species are not listed
>> in WCSP.
>> However, any inputs in this matter.
>> --
>> With regards,
>> J. M. Garg
>>
>> On Thu, 3 Sep, 2020, 10:49 pm Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur, <
>> anilthakur2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Garg ji, there are many such problems with closely related species
>>> on different databases. Therefore, I consult only POWO at present.
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020, 9:30 pm J.M. Garg,  wrote:
>>>


 -- Forwarded message -
 From: J.M. Garg 
 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:29
 Subject: Re: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense
 To: efloraofindia 


 Flora of China
  
 mentions
 *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau(syn: *Scrophularia
 chinensis* Linnaeus; *Celsia coromandeliana* Vahl; *Verbascum
 coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze; *V. sinense* H. Léveillé & Giraud).
 I could not find any clue on searching the net.

 On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:27, J.M. Garg  wrote:

>
> Catalogue of life
> 
> gives *Verbascum chinense* (L.) Santapau as a syn. of *Verbascum
> coromandelianum* subsp. *sinense* (L.) D. Mc Kean with
> distribution as China (Guangxi, Sichuan, Yunnan), Pakistan (Sind,
> Pakistani Punjab, Rawalpindi, N.W.Frontier Prov., Peshawar), Jammu &
> Kashmir (K

[efloraofindia:358289] Fwd: [itpmods:14622] Fwd: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense

[J.M. Garg]

-- Forwarded message -
From: Gurcharan Singh 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 12:20
Subject: Re: [itpmods:14622] Fwd: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense
To: J.M. Garg 
Cc: itpmods 


Garg ji
Verbascum coromandelianum (Vahl) Kuntze as understood as distinct species
is described in FBI as V. celsioides Benth. It will have 5 stamens but
sometimes 4 (hence confusion), lower leaves are pinnatisect , 4-6 inch long
(lyrate-pinnatifid, 2-4 inch long in chinense), pedicels 12-20 mm long
(only 4-8 mm long in Chinense), filaments woolly (hairy in chinense)
All three are described in FBI, we can always find from there.




Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Mob: 9810359089
https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/


On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM J.M. Garg  wrote:

> Thanks, Singh ji,
> I am asking for the difference between *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus)
> Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) Kuntze.
>
> Flora of China
>  
> mentions
> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum coromandelianum*
> (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them (*Verbascum chinense*
> (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) Kuntze)) as
> independent species.
>
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 09:58, Gurcharan Singh  wrote:
>
>> Verbascum chinense is what was described in Flora of British India as
>> Celsia coromandelianum
>> Differences are so obvious
>> V. thapsus: stamens 5, basal leaves not divided, cauline strongly
>> decurrent, densely woolly
>> V. chinensis: stamens 4, basal leaves lyrate-pinnatifid, cauline not
>> decurrent, not densely woolly.
>> The species are well represented on Flowers of India
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>> Retired  Associate Professor
>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
>> Mob: 9810359089
>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:18 AM J.M. Garg  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Anil ji,
>>> Flora of China
>>>  
>>> mentions
>>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum
>>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them (*Verbascum
>>> chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl)
>>> Kuntze)) as independent species.
>>> We do not know the difference between the two.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 08:26, Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur <
>>> anilthakur2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 You are right, Garg ji
 But the confusion arises when one data base considers some species as
 accepted and the  other as a synonym of some other name.
 Regards

 On Fri, 4 Sep 2020, 7:16 am J.M. Garg,  wrote:

> Hi, Anil ji,
> POWO is not the ultimate solution. Catalogue of Life is far ahead in
> many families, particularly those which are not there in WCSP from Kew.
> Both needs to consulted simultaneously where species are not listed in
> WCSP.
> However, any inputs in this matter.
> --
> With regards,
> J. M. Garg
>
> On Thu, 3 Sep, 2020, 10:49 pm Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur, <
> anilthakur2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Garg ji, there are many such problems with closely related species on
>> different databases. Therefore, I consult only POWO at present.
>> Regards
>>
>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020, 9:30 pm J.M. Garg,  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>> From: J.M. Garg 
>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:29
>>> Subject: Re: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense
>>> To: efloraofindia 
>>>
>>>
>>> Flora of China
>>>  
>>> mentions
>>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau(syn: *Scrophularia
>>> chinensis* Linnaeus; *Celsia coromandeliana* Vahl; *Verbascum
>>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze; *V. sinense* H. Léveillé & Giraud).
>>> I could not find any clue on searching the net.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:27, J.M. Garg  wrote:
>>>

 Catalogue of life
 
 gives *Verbascum chinense* (L.) Santapau as a syn. of *Verbascum
 coromandelianum* subsp. *sinense* (L.) D. Mc Kean with
 distribution as China (Guangxi, Sichuan, Yunnan), Pakistan (Sind,
 Pakistani Punjab, Rawalpindi, N.W.Frontier Prov., Peshawar), Jammu &
 Kashmir (Kashmir).
 POWO
 
 gives *Verbascum chinense *(L.) Santapau with native range is
 Afghanistan to S. China and Indo-China (Afghanistan, Bangladesh,
 Cambo