Deprecating Autocloud

[Sayan Chowdhury]

Hi all,

Autocloud[1] has been part of the early stages of the 2-week Atomic
release process. AFAIK, it was built as a quick solution until
taskotron was not ready. Autocloud has served us well but over the
last year, we haven't pushed much to Autocloud and it's also mostly in
maintenance mode. Another big reason now for deprecating Autocloud is
that it's still in Python2.

Are there any concerns if we go ahead deprecate Autocloud in Fedora 31?

[1] https://apps.fedoraproject.org/autocloud/

Sayan
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 at 06:09, Sayan Chowdhury  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Autocloud[1] has been part of the early stages of the 2-week Atomic
> release process. AFAIK, it was built as a quick solution until
> taskotron was not ready. Autocloud has served us well but over the
> last year, we haven't pushed much to Autocloud and it's also mostly in
> maintenance mode. Another big reason now for deprecating Autocloud is
> that it's still in Python2.
>
> Are there any concerns if we go ahead deprecate Autocloud in Fedora 31?
>
>

Deprecating it in Fedora 31 means that it goes away when Fedora 31 end of
lifes (which would be late 2021? or early 2022). Do you mean to stop it
sooner than that?



> [1] https://apps.fedoraproject.org/autocloud/
>
> Sayan
> --
> Sayan Chowdhury <https://words.yudocaa.in/>
> GPG Fingerprint : 0F16 E841 E517 225C 7D13  AB3C B023 9931 9CD0 5C8B
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Sinny Kumari]

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:55 PM Stephen John Smoogen 
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 at 06:09, Sayan Chowdhury  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Autocloud[1] has been part of the early stages of the 2-week Atomic
>> release process. AFAIK, it was built as a quick solution until
>> taskotron was not ready. Autocloud has served us well but over the
>> last year, we haven't pushed much to Autocloud and it's also mostly in
>> maintenance mode. Another big reason now for deprecating Autocloud is
>> that it's still in Python2.
>>
>> Are there any concerns if we go ahead deprecate Autocloud in Fedora 31?
>>
>>
>
> Deprecating it in Fedora 31 means that it goes away when Fedora 31 end of
> lifes (which would be late 2021? or early 2022). Do you mean to stop it
> sooner than that?
>

If we are using autocloud only for Fedora Atomic Host Two Week release, we
should be able to deprecate it with F29 EOL [1]

[1]
https://lists.projectatomic.io/projectatomic-archives/atomic-announce/2019-February/msg3.html



>
>
>> [1] https://apps.fedoraproject.org/autocloud/
>>
>> Sayan
>> --
>> Sayan Chowdhury <https://words.yudocaa.in/>
>> GPG Fingerprint : 0F16 E841 E517 225C 7D13  AB3C B023 9931 9CD0 5C8B
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>>
>
>
> --
> Stephen J Smoogen.
>
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Kevin Fenzi]

On 4/23/19 8:31 AM, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:55 PM Stephen John Smoogen 
> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 at 06:09, Sayan Chowdhury  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Autocloud[1] has been part of the early stages of the 2-week Atomic
>>> release process. AFAIK, it was built as a quick solution until
>>> taskotron was not ready. Autocloud has served us well but over the
>>> last year, we haven't pushed much to Autocloud and it's also mostly in
>>> maintenance mode. Another big reason now for deprecating Autocloud is
>>> that it's still in Python2.
>>>
>>> Are there any concerns if we go ahead deprecate Autocloud in Fedora 31?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Deprecating it in Fedora 31 means that it goes away when Fedora 31 end of
>> lifes (which would be late 2021? or early 2022). Do you mean to stop it
>> sooner than that?
>>
> 
> If we are using autocloud only for Fedora Atomic Host Two Week release, we
> should be able to deprecate it with F29 EOL [1]

Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? (taskotron?)

if we can do that we can just retire it as soon as that move is done and
we are happy with the new process.

kevin




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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Sinny Kumari]

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> On 4/23/19 8:31 AM, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:55 PM Stephen John Smoogen 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 at 06:09, Sayan Chowdhury  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Autocloud[1] has been part of the early stages of the 2-week Atomic
> >>> release process. AFAIK, it was built as a quick solution until
> >>> taskotron was not ready. Autocloud has served us well but over the
> >>> last year, we haven't pushed much to Autocloud and it's also mostly in
> >>> maintenance mode. Another big reason now for deprecating Autocloud is
> >>> that it's still in Python2.
> >>>
> >>> Are there any concerns if we go ahead deprecate Autocloud in Fedora 31?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Deprecating it in Fedora 31 means that it goes away when Fedora 31 end
> of
> >> lifes (which would be late 2021? or early 2022). Do you mean to stop it
> >> sooner than that?
> >>
> >
> > If we are using autocloud only for Fedora Atomic Host Two Week release,
> we
> > should be able to deprecate it with F29 EOL [1]
>
> Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? (taskotron?)
>

It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which would
replace checks performed by autocloud.

(CC'ed tflink and kparal)
Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud Images
like booting images and other basic checks?


> if we can do that we can just retire it as soon as that move is done and
> we are happy with the new process.
>
> kevin
>
>
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Kamil Páral]

> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  
> 
> It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which would
> replace checks performed by autocloud.
> 
> (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud Images
> like booting images and other basic checks?

(My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me try again 
from the web UI...)

Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is going 
away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/

I recommend to ask in the CI list:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ci%40lists.fedoraproject.org/

It should be possible for them to provide the infrastructure you need.
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Neal Gompa]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  >
> >
> > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which would
> > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> >
> > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud Images
> > like booting images and other basic checks?
>
> (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me try 
> again from the web UI...)
>
> Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is going 
> away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
>

But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
with that?

Also, I don't relish the idea of writing Ansible playbooks for tests.
And I imagine most other folks don't. We don't need a Zuul-like system
for most package testing.



-- 
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which
> would
> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> > >
> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud
> Images
> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
> >
> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me
> try again from the web UI...)
> >
> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is
> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> >
>
> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
> with that?
>
>
Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until
Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why do
you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why are you
replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there are
multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource
developers exhibit..



> Also, I don't relish the idea of writing Ansible playbooks for tests.
> And I imagine most other folks don't. We don't need a Zuul-like system
> for most package testing.
>
>
>
> --
> 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Neal Gompa]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi > > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which 
>> > > would
>> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
>> > >
>> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
>> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud 
>> > > Images
>> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
>> >
>> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me try 
>> > again from the web UI...)
>> >
>> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is 
>> > going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
>> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
>> >
>>
>> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
>> with that?
>>
>
> Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until Fedora 
> CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why do you spend 
> time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why are you replacing 
> my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there are multiple thesis 
> and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource developers exhibit..
>
>

I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
because most of us can't interact with it.

The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.

What I'm annoyed about is the continual replacement of things with
stuff that works _less_ than before. I'm sure this has a lot to do
with "agile" and pushing "minimal viable products" as full
replacements, with the hope that it'd iteratively build up. That
doesn't seem to happen quickly enough for things to be useful, and
sometimes the effort going in falls off before it reaches parity with
what it replaced.

Replacing a Honda Civic with a Tata Nano just doesn't fly.



-- 
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Neal Gompa]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:21 AM Pierre-Yves Chibon  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place 
> > >> > > which would
> > >> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> > >> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud 
> > >> > > Images
> > >> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
> > >> >
> > >> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me 
> > >> > try again from the web UI...)
> > >> >
> > >> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is 
> > >> > going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> > >> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
> > >> with that?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until 
> > > Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why 
> > > do you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why 
> > > are you replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there 
> > > are multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource 
> > > developers exhibit..
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
> > because most of us can't interact with it.
> >
> > The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
> > attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.
>
> Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for the
> issues you've seen/faced?
>

I personally haven't opened any tickets because I can't figure out how
to use it. But I've heard from others (Fabio, Miro, etc.) that none of
it works, so I haven't bothered trying to dig into it anymore.



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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which 
> >> > > would
> >> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> >> > >
> >> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> >> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud 
> >> > > Images
> >> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
> >> >
> >> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me 
> >> > try again from the web UI...)
> >> >
> >> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is 
> >> > going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> >> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> >> >
> >>
> >> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
> >> with that?
> >>
> >
> > Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until 
> > Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why do 
> > you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why are you 
> > replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there are 
> > multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource 
> > developers exhibit..
> >
> >
> 
> I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
> because most of us can't interact with it.
> 
> The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
> attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.

Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for the
issues you've seen/faced?


Pierre
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:22:31AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:21 AM Pierre-Yves Chibon  
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi 
> > > >> > >  > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place 
> > > >> > > which would
> > > >> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> > > >> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora 
> > > >> > > cloud Images
> > > >> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let 
> > > >> > me try again from the web UI...)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron 
> > > >> > is going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> > > >> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
> > > >> with that?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until 
> > > > Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why 
> > > > do you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why 
> > > > are you replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure 
> > > > there are multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that 
> > > > OpenSource developers exhibit..
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
> > > because most of us can't interact with it.
> > >
> > > The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
> > > attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.
> >
> > Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for 
> > the
> > issues you've seen/faced?
> 
> I personally haven't opened any tickets because I can't figure out how
> to use it. But I've heard from others (Fabio, Miro, etc.) that none of
> it works, so I haven't bothered trying to dig into it anymore.

Would be nice to rely on your own experience rather than hearsay :)
I'm not saying Miro hasn't had problems, he has said so in a few occasions
before with links to tickets he opened but I'm hearing a lot of people
bad-mouthing CI while there aren't so many tickets on:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/ considering how wide it is deployed and
should impact the community.
So I'm questioning if people are bad-mouthing because they've heard other people
doing it or because they have legitimate issues that have been reported and
should be fixed.

I'm very happy to help raise concerns/issues from the community about issues
about the CI pipeline but I need to have hard-facts and tickets to be able to do
so, not hear-say.


Thanks,
Pierre
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Neal Gompa]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:32 AM Pierre-Yves Chibon  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:22:31AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:21 AM Pierre-Yves Chibon  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral 
> > > > >>  wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi 
> > > > >> > >  > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place 
> > > > >> > > which would
> > > > >> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> > > > >> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora 
> > > > >> > > cloud Images
> > > > >> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let 
> > > > >> > me try again from the web UI...)
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron 
> > > > >> > is going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> > > > >> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace 
> > > > >> Taskotron
> > > > >> with that?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron 
> > > > > until Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was 
> > > > > constantly 'why do you spend time on this broken crap' and then it 
> > > > > becomes the 'oh why are you replacing my favorite thing in the 
> > > > > world'. I am pretty sure there are multiple thesis and doctorates on 
> > > > > the codependency that OpenSource developers exhibit..
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
> > > > because most of us can't interact with it.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
> > > > attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.
> > >
> > > Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for 
> > > the
> > > issues you've seen/faced?
> >
> > I personally haven't opened any tickets because I can't figure out how
> > to use it. But I've heard from others (Fabio, Miro, etc.) that none of
> > it works, so I haven't bothered trying to dig into it anymore.
>
> Would be nice to rely on your own experience rather than hearsay :)
> I'm not saying Miro hasn't had problems, he has said so in a few occasions
> before with links to tickets he opened but I'm hearing a lot of people
> bad-mouthing CI while there aren't so many tickets on:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/ considering how wide it is deployed and
> should impact the community.
> So I'm questioning if people are bad-mouthing because they've heard other 
> people
> doing it or because they have legitimate issues that have been reported and
> should be fixed.
>
> I'm very happy to help raise concerns/issues from the community about issues
> about the CI pipeline but I need to have hard-facts and tickets to be able to 
> do
> so, not hear-say.
>

My two problems right now:

1. I don't know how to actually use it (I'd like to for snapd, at least)
2. I really don't want to have to design an Ansible playbook for this
(that's overkill!).


-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 29. 04. 19 v 14:20 Pierre-Yves Chibon napsal(a):
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  
 wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi > wrote:
>>
>>
>> It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which 
>> would
>> replace checks performed by autocloud.
>>
>> (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
>> Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud 
>> Images
>> like booting images and other basic checks?
> (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me try 
> again from the web UI...)
>
> Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is 
> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
>
 But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
 with that?

>>> Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until 
>>> Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why do 
>>> you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why are you 
>>> replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there are 
>>> multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource 
>>> developers exhibit..
>>>
>>>
>> I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
>> because most of us can't interact with it.
>>
>> The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
>> attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.
> Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for the
> issues you've seen/faced?


This is my experience with CI if you wish:


https://pagure.io/standard-test-roles/issue/182

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1566392

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1571269


Unresolved tickets opened for a year.


Vít

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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Miro Hrončok]

On 29. 04. 19 14:32, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:22:31AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:21 AM Pierre-Yves Chibon  wrote:


On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:




On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:


On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  wrote:



On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi 

(My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me try again 
from the web UI...)

Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is going 
away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/



But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
with that?



Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until Fedora 
CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why do you spend 
time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why are you replacing my 
favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there are multiple thesis and 
doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource developers exhibit..




I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
because most of us can't interact with it.

The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.


Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for the
issues you've seen/faced?


I personally haven't opened any tickets because I can't figure out how
to use it. But I've heard from others (Fabio, Miro, etc.) that none of
it works, so I haven't bothered trying to dig into it anymore.


Would be nice to rely on your own experience rather than hearsay :)
I'm not saying Miro hasn't had problems, he has said so in a few occasions
before with links to tickets he opened but I'm hearing a lot of people
bad-mouthing CI while there aren't so many tickets on:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/ considering how wide it is deployed and
should impact the community.
So I'm questioning if people are bad-mouthing because they've heard other people
doing it or because they have legitimate issues that have been reported and
should be fixed.

I'm very happy to help raise concerns/issues from the community about issues
about the CI pipeline but I need to have hard-facts and tickets to be able to do
so, not hear-say.


I am opening tickets a there is nothing by silence.
The CI people are glad to help me solve immediate problems (figure out why it 
errored this time again), but for long term issues, there is nothing.


My personal favorites:

There is no way to see what's going on:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/2 (8 months old)

There is no way to reproduce+debug easily:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/4 (8 months old)

There is no way to see why it errored:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/43 (1 month old)

There is no way to see when it errored:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/49 (fresh)

There is no way to rely on CI not erroring by random reason:
https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/44 (1 month old)


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 02:55:23PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> There is no way to see what's going on:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/2 (8 months old)

Seems to be acked and known.
This is not a small/easy fix though
 
> There is no way to reproduce+debug easily:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/4 (8 months old)

Seems to have been worked on and has stalled a little bit. Let's see if we can
poke it.

> There is no way to see why it errored:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/43 (1 month old)

While there was some discussion it seems the actual issue is still valid. This
also may not be an easy fix as wrapping errors is always a complicated task.

> There is no way to see when it errored:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/49 (fresh)

This was opened last Friday, we can give them a little more time to provide
feedback :)

> There is no way to rely on CI not erroring by random reason:
> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/44 (1 month old)

Not much input on this one as well :(


Thanks for your tickets, I'll try to get them some attention.

Pierre
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 08:11, Neal Gompa  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place
> which would
> >> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> >> > >
> >> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> >> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud
> Images
> >> > > like booting images and other basic checks?
> >> >
> >> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me
> try again from the web UI...)
> >> >
> >> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is
> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> >> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> >> >
> >>
> >> But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
> >> with that?
> >>
> >
> > Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until
> Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why do
> you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why are you
> replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there are
> multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource
> developers exhibit..
> >
> >
>
> I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
> because most of us can't interact with it.
>
> The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
> attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.
>
> What I'm annoyed about is the continual replacement of things with
> stuff that works _less_ than before. I'm sure this has a lot to do
> with "agile" and pushing "minimal viable products" as full
> replacements, with the hope that it'd iteratively build up. That
> doesn't seem to happen quickly enough for things to be useful, and
> sometimes the effort going in falls off before it reaches parity with
> what it replaced.
>
>
As much as I would love to blame Agile/MVP as much as the next guy... part
of the reason things keep getting replaced versus worked on is what the
developers here from the community is 'X is completely broken, either get
rid of it or I am gone.' That and the fact that most developer thinks
whatever they (or someone else) wrote last week is complete dog-vomit,
leads to a constant iteration of replacement tools. 2-3 years ago it was a
weekly email flood of 'Fedora build systems suck.. they have no CI and you
can't do CD'

Look this is remodeling the house. It is very hard to make the master
bedroom bigger when we are also told not to make the rooms around it
smaller. It is even harder when you have to do it while the people live in
the house and we aren't allowed to wake or bother anyone while we do all
this work. So you are going to end up with Tata's because anything bigger
can't fit in the Civic.



> Replacing a Honda Civic with a Tata Nano just doesn't fly.
>
>
>
> --
> 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
> ___
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 02:39:19PM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote:
> 
> Dne 29. 04. 19 v 14:20 Pierre-Yves Chibon napsal(a):
> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 08:10:59AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:51 AM Stephen John Smoogen  
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 07:35, Neal Gompa  wrote:
>  On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:21 AM Kamil Páral  
>  wrote:
> >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which 
> >> would
> >> replace checks performed by autocloud.
> >>
> >> (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> >> Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud 
> >> Images
> >> like booting images and other basic checks?
> > (My email to the list was rejected because I'm not subscribed, let me 
> > try again from the web UI...)
> >
> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is 
> > going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> >
>  But Fedora CI is broken and/or vaporware. How can we replace Taskotron
>  with that?
> 
> >>> Honestly.. weren't we saying the same damn thing about taskotron until 
> >>> Fedora CI became the latest thing to rail about. It was constantly 'why 
> >>> do you spend time on this broken crap' and then it becomes the 'oh why 
> >>> are you replacing my favorite thing in the world'. I am pretty sure there 
> >>> are multiple thesis and doctorates on the codependency that OpenSource 
> >>> developers exhibit..
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I actually don't remember this for Taskotron... I'm pretty sure that's
> >> because most of us can't interact with it.
> >>
> >> The problem with Fedora CI is that it's documentation is useless and
> >> attempts to use the system end in miserable failure.
> > Sorry for asking, but could you point me to the tickets you've opened for 
> > the
> > issues you've seen/faced?
> 
> 
> This is my experience with CI if you wish:
> 
> 
> https://pagure.io/standard-test-roles/issue/182
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1566392
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1571269
> 
> 
> Unresolved tickets opened for a year.

Thanks,

Pierre
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Sinny Kumari]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:47 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:39 AM Sinny Kumari  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
>>
>>> Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? (taskotron?)
>>>
>>
>> It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which
>> would
>> replace checks performed by autocloud.
>>
>> (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
>> Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud
>> Images like booting images and other basic checks?
>>
>
> Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is
> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
>

Thanks kamil! yeah, it doesn't make sense to move to Taskotron if it is
going to be deprecated as well.


> I recommend to ask in the CI list:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ci%40lists.fedoraproject.org/
>
> It should be possible for them to provide the infrastructure you need.
>

Hmm, I am not very sure if we should spend time investigating and setting
up alternative
to autocloud unless we have usecases for long run. Fedora Atomic Host Two
Week releases ends with F29 EOL.


-- 
http://sinny.io/
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Dusty Mabe]

On 4/29/19 9:27 AM, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:47 PM Kamil Paral  > wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:39 AM Sinny Kumari  > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  > wrote:
> 
> Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? 
> (taskotron?)
> 
> 
> It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which 
> would
> replace checks performed by autocloud.
> 
> (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud 
> Images like booting images and other basic checks?
> 
> 
> Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is 
> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> 
> 
> Thanks kamil! yeah, it doesn't make sense to move to Taskotron if it is going 
> to be deprecated as well.
> 
> 
> I recommend to ask in the CI list:
> 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ci%40lists.fedoraproject.org/
> 
> It should be possible for them to provide the infrastructure you need.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I am not very sure if we should spend time investigating and setting up 
> alternative
> to autocloud unless we have usecases for long run. Fedora Atomic Host Two 
> Week releases ends with F29 EOL.

I would say let's keep it around until we EOL f29 Atomic Host. Let's not put 
any investment into it or migrating
it elsewhere.

Dusty 
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2019-04-29 at 18:57 +0530, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:47 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:39 AM Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? (taskotron?)
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which
> > > would
> > > replace checks performed by autocloud.
> > > 
> > > (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
> > > Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud
> > > Images like booting images and other basic checks?
> > > 
> > 
> > Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is
> > going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> > 
> 
> Thanks kamil! yeah, it doesn't make sense to move to Taskotron if it is
> going to be deprecated as well.
> 
> 
> > I recommend to ask in the CI list:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ci%40lists.fedoraproject.org/
> > 
> > It should be possible for them to provide the infrastructure you need.
> > 
> 
> Hmm, I am not very sure if we should spend time investigating and setting
> up alternative
> to autocloud unless we have usecases for long run. Fedora Atomic Host Two
> Week releases ends with F29 EOL.

We could run these tests in openQA pretty easily, I think. The question
is, I guess, whether they will still be of value for Fedora CoreOS.

I guess to me the real job Autocloud is doing is this: "make sure the
images we intend people to use to run Fedora instances in the cloud
basically work and can do some simple tasks people tend to do with such
images". If the Fedora CoreOS team already is covering this some other
way, or intends to cover it some other way before Fedora CoreOS becomes
a supported thing, then we probably don't need to preserve the
Autocloud tests. If this is not in scope for the Fedora CoreOS
team...we probably still need to do it somewhere else.

So...has anyone asked the Fedora CoreOS team what the plans here are?
:)
-- 
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Fedora QA Community Monkey
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Dusty Mabe]

On 5/1/19 10:20 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-04-29 at 18:57 +0530, Sinny Kumari wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:47 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:39 AM Sinny Kumari  wrote:
>>>

 On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? (taskotron?)
>

 It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which
 would
 replace checks performed by autocloud.

 (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
 Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud
 Images like booting images and other basic checks?

>>>
>>> Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is
>>> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
>>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
>>>
>>
>> Thanks kamil! yeah, it doesn't make sense to move to Taskotron if it is
>> going to be deprecated as well.
>>
>>
>>> I recommend to ask in the CI list:
>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ci%40lists.fedoraproject.org/
>>>
>>> It should be possible for them to provide the infrastructure you need.
>>>
>>
>> Hmm, I am not very sure if we should spend time investigating and setting
>> up alternative
>> to autocloud unless we have usecases for long run. Fedora Atomic Host Two
>> Week releases ends with F29 EOL.
> 
> We could run these tests in openQA pretty easily, I think. The question
> is, I guess, whether they will still be of value for Fedora CoreOS.
> 
> I guess to me the real job Autocloud is doing is this: "make sure the
> images we intend people to use to run Fedora instances in the cloud
> basically work and can do some simple tasks people tend to do with such
> images". If the Fedora CoreOS team already is covering this some other
> way, or intends to cover it some other way before Fedora CoreOS becomes
> a supported thing, then we probably don't need to preserve the
> Autocloud tests. If this is not in scope for the Fedora CoreOS
> team...we probably still need to do it somewhere else.
> 
> So...has anyone asked the Fedora CoreOS team what the plans here are?
> :)

We plan to have testing at various stages of the CoreOS build and delivery
pipeline. We definitely plan to have FCOS taken care of using the existing
kola testing utility [1] that was in use previously for container linux.

With that said, one thing that has previously been out of scope for kola is
testing instances that aren't provisioned with ignition (i.e. they use 
cloud-init
instead). Today the Fedora Cloud base images are not provisioned using ignition 
so
we'll either need to consider adding ignition as an option there OR consider 
running
automated tests against the Fedora Cloud base images in OpenQA (if that's 
possible).

Dusty

[1] https://github.com/coreos/mantle#kola
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Neal Gompa]

On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 10:48 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 5/1/19 10:20 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2019-04-29 at 18:57 +0530, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:47 PM Kamil Paral  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:39 AM Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:19 AM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
> 
> > Or could we move f29+ all to whatever is replacing it? (taskotron?)
> >
> 
>  It will be nice but I am not aware of any other system in place which
>  would
>  replace checks performed by autocloud.
> 
>  (CC'ed tflink and kparal)
>  Does taskotron provides capability to perform tests on Fedora cloud
>  Images like booting images and other basic checks?
> 
> >>>
> >>> Theoretically it is possible using nested virt. However, Taskotron is
> >>> going away as well. The replacement is Fedora CI:
> >>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ci/
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks kamil! yeah, it doesn't make sense to move to Taskotron if it is
> >> going to be deprecated as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I recommend to ask in the CI list:
> >>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ci%40lists.fedoraproject.org/
> >>>
> >>> It should be possible for them to provide the infrastructure you need.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hmm, I am not very sure if we should spend time investigating and setting
> >> up alternative
> >> to autocloud unless we have usecases for long run. Fedora Atomic Host Two
> >> Week releases ends with F29 EOL.
> >
> > We could run these tests in openQA pretty easily, I think. The question
> > is, I guess, whether they will still be of value for Fedora CoreOS.
> >
> > I guess to me the real job Autocloud is doing is this: "make sure the
> > images we intend people to use to run Fedora instances in the cloud
> > basically work and can do some simple tasks people tend to do with such
> > images". If the Fedora CoreOS team already is covering this some other
> > way, or intends to cover it some other way before Fedora CoreOS becomes
> > a supported thing, then we probably don't need to preserve the
> > Autocloud tests. If this is not in scope for the Fedora CoreOS
> > team...we probably still need to do it somewhere else.
> >
> > So...has anyone asked the Fedora CoreOS team what the plans here are?
> > :)
>
> We plan to have testing at various stages of the CoreOS build and delivery
> pipeline. We definitely plan to have FCOS taken care of using the existing
> kola testing utility [1] that was in use previously for container linux.
>
> With that said, one thing that has previously been out of scope for kola is
> testing instances that aren't provisioned with ignition (i.e. they use 
> cloud-init
> instead). Today the Fedora Cloud base images are not provisioned using 
> ignition so
> we'll either need to consider adding ignition as an option there OR consider 
> running
> automated tests against the Fedora Cloud base images in OpenQA (if that's 
> possible).
>

It's all possible with OpenQA, the tests just have to be written. :)


-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Dusty Mabe]

On 5/2/19 12:08 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 10:48 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:

>> We plan to have testing at various stages of the CoreOS build and delivery
>> pipeline. We definitely plan to have FCOS taken care of using the existing
>> kola testing utility [1] that was in use previously for container linux.
>>
>> With that said, one thing that has previously been out of scope for kola is
>> testing instances that aren't provisioned with ignition (i.e. they use 
>> cloud-init
>> instead). Today the Fedora Cloud base images are not provisioned using 
>> ignition so
>> we'll either need to consider adding ignition as an option there OR consider 
>> running
>> automated tests against the Fedora Cloud base images in OpenQA (if that's 
>> possible).
>>
> 
> It's all possible with OpenQA, the tests just have to be written. :)

I don't know a whole lot about OpenQA but I'm interested to know:
Is it easy to start a VM and attach metadata to it (i.e. support cloud-init)? 
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2019-05-02 at 10:15 -0400, Dusty Mabe wrote:
> 
> On 5/2/19 12:08 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 10:48 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
> > > We plan to have testing at various stages of the CoreOS build and delivery
> > > pipeline. We definitely plan to have FCOS taken care of using the existing
> > > kola testing utility [1] that was in use previously for container linux.
> > > 
> > > With that said, one thing that has previously been out of scope for kola 
> > > is
> > > testing instances that aren't provisioned with ignition (i.e. they use 
> > > cloud-init
> > > instead). Today the Fedora Cloud base images are not provisioned using 
> > > ignition so
> > > we'll either need to consider adding ignition as an option there OR 
> > > consider running
> > > automated tests against the Fedora Cloud base images in OpenQA (if that's 
> > > possible).
> > > 
> > 
> > It's all possible with OpenQA, the tests just have to be written. :)
> 
> I don't know a whole lot about OpenQA but I'm interested to know:
> Is it easy to start a VM and attach metadata to it (i.e. support cloud-init)? 

I'd have to look into it, but it shouldn't be hard. Starting VMs is
what it *does*, and if it can't support cloud-init already, I can add
it. I'm on vacation till the 19th, will follow up on this later.

It would be a good idea if the actual tests can be shared between test
systems as much as possible. I know the tests Autocloud ran were
basically just bash scripts - openQA could easily use those. What do
the tests run in kola look like?

There's also the question of whether we still want to ship/support the
Cloud Base images. For now they are still release-blocking
deliverables, but their status feels a little vague to me. It would be
good to figure out for sure whether we still consider them important,
if so why, and if so who is in charge of them.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Dusty Mabe]

On 5/2/19 12:53 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2019-05-02 at 10:15 -0400, Dusty Mabe wrote:
>>
>> On 5/2/19 12:08 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 10:48 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
 We plan to have testing at various stages of the CoreOS build and delivery
 pipeline. We definitely plan to have FCOS taken care of using the existing
 kola testing utility [1] that was in use previously for container linux.

 With that said, one thing that has previously been out of scope for kola is
 testing instances that aren't provisioned with ignition (i.e. they use 
 cloud-init
 instead). Today the Fedora Cloud base images are not provisioned using 
 ignition so
 we'll either need to consider adding ignition as an option there OR 
 consider running
 automated tests against the Fedora Cloud base images in OpenQA (if that's 
 possible).

>>>
>>> It's all possible with OpenQA, the tests just have to be written. :)
>>
>> I don't know a whole lot about OpenQA but I'm interested to know:
>> Is it easy to start a VM and attach metadata to it (i.e. support 
>> cloud-init)? 
> 
> I'd have to look into it, but it shouldn't be hard. Starting VMs is
> what it *does*, and if it can't support cloud-init already, I can add
> it. I'm on vacation till the 19th, will follow up on this later.

Sounds good.

> 
> It would be a good idea if the actual tests can be shared between test
> systems as much as possible. I know the tests Autocloud ran were
> basically just bash scripts - openQA could easily use those. What do
> the tests run in kola look like?

They are embedded in kola itself. It's very much a focused tool for a
single purpose.

> 
> There's also the question of whether we still want to ship/support the
> Cloud Base images. For now they are still release-blocking
> deliverables, but their status feels a little vague to me. It would be
> good to figure out for sure whether we still consider them important,
> if so why, and if so who is in charge of them.
> 

I think so. Some effort has been made to consolidate cloud/server, but for
right now nothing is broke and people are working on other things so it is
the status quo. You can talk to me or Joe Doss about cloud images if you
have issues.

Dusty
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Sayan Chowdhury]

>
> I would say let's keep it around until we EOL f29 Atomic Host. Let's not put 
> any investment into it or migrating
> it elsewhere.

Agreed, let's keep it till when it's needed and not worry about it's successor.

-- 
Sayan Chowdhury 
GPG Fingerprint : 0F16 E841 E517 225C 7D13  AB3C B023 9931 9CD0 5C8B
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Sinny Kumari]

Reviving this thread

Recently Fedora 29 went EOL [1] and with that we also did final Fedora
Atomic Host release and its EOL announcement [2] .
I think we should be good with deprecating autocloud now unless we want to
keep using it for running tests on Fedora Cloud images.

Thanks,
Sinny

[1]
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/VUK3CJ5LO4ROUH3JTCDVHYAVVYAOCU62/
[2]
https://lists.projectatomic.io/projectatomic-archives/atomic-devel/2019-December/msg0.html

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:00 PM Sayan Chowdhury  wrote:

> >
> > I would say let's keep it around until we EOL f29 Atomic Host. Let's not
> put any investment into it or migrating
> > it elsewhere.
>
> Agreed, let's keep it till when it's needed and not worry about it's
> successor.
>
> --
> Sayan Chowdhury <https://words.yudocaa.in/>
> GPG Fingerprint : 0F16 E841 E517 225C 7D13  AB3C B023 9931 9CD0 5C8B
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2019-12-05 at 14:44 +0530, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> Reviving this thread
> 
> Recently Fedora 29 went EOL [1] and with that we also did final Fedora
> Atomic Host release and its EOL announcement [2] .
> I think we should be good with deprecating autocloud now unless we want to
> keep using it for running tests on Fedora Cloud images.

It's already done, Kevin turned it off several days ago.

openQA is now running the autocloud tests on Cloud_Base qcow2 images, e.g. 
https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?distri=fedora&version=30&build=Fedora-Cloud-30-20191205.0&groupid=1
 .
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: Deprecating Autocloud

[Sinny Kumari]

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:21 AM Adam Williamson 
wrote:

> On Thu, 2019-12-05 at 14:44 +0530, Sinny Kumari wrote:
> > Reviving this thread
> >
> > Recently Fedora 29 went EOL [1] and with that we also did final Fedora
> > Atomic Host release and its EOL announcement [2] .
> > I think we should be good with deprecating autocloud now unless we want
> to
> > keep using it for running tests on Fedora Cloud images.
>
> It's already done, Kevin turned it off several days ago.
>
> openQA is now running the autocloud tests on Cloud_Base qcow2 images, e.g.
> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?distri=fedora&version=30&build=Fedora-Cloud-30-20191205.0&groupid=1
> .
>
>
That's awesome to know! Seems like I missed the news :)


> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
> http://www.happyassassin.net
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