Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
Hi Brynn, Am 20.06.2015 um 06:00 schrieb Brynn: > Hi Maren, >Out of curiosity, when you type "wik" in you browser, how does it > know to find the Inkscape wiki, and not Wikipedia, or Wikimedia, or some > other program's wiki, etc? - The browser proposes the pages I have visited most often first ;) The other pages range below in the list it shows me. >If users are looking to the Roadmap as "set in stone" then they > simply need to be informed properly. For as long as I've been using > Inkscape (8 years), the wiki has been a resource for both users and > developers. Most of them have no idea that it's being groomed as > 'developer only'. Ask Martin how many times I asked him to confirm > that, Yes, the wiki will only be for developers. At least 4 or 5, as I > recall. **It's a radical change, and afaik, I'm the only user who knows > that.** - I'm a user, too ;) New people who want to download, or learn about Inkscape - at least in my google results - are guided to inkscape.org, not to wiki.inkscape.org. For the first few weeks that I was here, I didn't even know the Wiki existed (until I translated the pages that link to it). It seems this was different in a time when I haven't been part of the project, didn't know that. >Not only do I have a list of wiki articles that are user-related, > that are linked from the FAQ (attached), I actually started to make a > list of ALL wiki articles that are for users. But I started getting > tripped up when I came to things I didn't understand, and wasn't sure if > they were for users or not. >I would be glad to start working on that again, if I could get > some guidance from you, on pages where I have questions. All I could do > is make a list, but that might be a starting place for someone else? - Sounds like we have a volunteer ;) - seriously, I believe it's a good idea to make a list of which info should be accessible more easily to users. I can't promise we can take *everything* to the website (esp. those things that will be in the manual might not be needed there), but we should find out what could be missing, and give it proper thought. >(Note that when I first started working on the FAQ, I don't think > you were involved yet. After I announced some of my work on the dev > mailing list, it was Bryce who said that if I found info in the wiki > which really should be in the documentation, to make note of it. It's > possible that it's not appropriate for some of this to be documented, > but that was my best understanding at the time.) >I guess the FAQ would be my best idea as the best place for the > Roadmap to be linked, if it should not be on the website. But it would > go a long way towards preventing users from thinking it's "a done deal" > by putting a simple sentence at the top of the page, to that effect. > That could also be said in the faq. >I was just about to add those couple of links I've been putting > off adding. So shall I make the new faq item for the roadmap, while I'm > at it? - Go ahead :) - sounds good to me. >> - You're quite hardy :) >> I've internally categorized most of the Wiki pages as 'outdated' or >> 'describing a plan, but not necessarily the real implementation'... > > Inkscape forums can be quite competitive, as to who gets the right > answer. Although it's never really verbalized, many are aware! > > Where can I look to find out whether a page is outdated or describing a > plan? - Argh. That's difficult. You'd actually need to know the current state to *know* if the info is still correct. So there are a few options: - Look at the top of the page. If there's a hint that the info is outdated, discard right away. - Look at the history of the page, to see when it was last changed. This is not a really good indicator, because a few things just don't change, but it can give you a hint. - Compare with your own knowledge about the topic. Is it different? (That's where it gets difficult... Neither you nor I nor Martin will be able to tell that for all wiki pages) - Ask someone who might know. (This is difficult, too - we know that we don't always get answers... and that people often react annoyed to this kind of question, or say they will help and then never get around to it. This does not have priority for many.) For much of the user-relevant contents, I guess you and I will be able to judge if it is current, with the help of suv for OS X questions. We might not be able to say this for pages about comparisons with other software, which we do not own. About the attached list of Wiki articles: - some of the Illustrator stuff seems no longer really necessary, as we now have the keyboard shortcut editor, which also has the option to choose the Illustrator shortcuts from the dropdown. For the other things, I'm not sure a comparison is a good topic for us... As both programs have evolved since that article was written, I'm inclined to think that much of it will be
Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
>> Ask Martin how many times I asked him to confirm >> that, Yes, the wiki will only be for developers. At least 4 or 5, as I >> recall. **It's a radical change, and afaik, I'm the only user who knows >> that.** There is a (very) long term plan. It allows us to move away from the wiki completely for all uses. But it requires our website to be more stable and capable. So for now, to make sure various groups get comfortable with writing on the website and allow for translations, I made the decision that the wiki should only be used for notes, drafting, development and all those non-user facing works. But this isn't set in stone. The concerns are maintainability going forwards of our various resources. >>I would be glad to start working on that again, if I could get >> some guidance from you, on pages where I have questions. All I could do >> is make a list, but that might be a starting place for someone else? > > - Sounds like we have a volunteer ;) - seriously, I believe it's a good > idea to make a list of which info should be accessible more easily to > users. I can't promise we can take *everything* to the website (esp. > those things that will be in the manual might not be needed there), but > we should find out what could be missing, and give it proper thought. Take such a job one page at a time and make sure the pages in the wiki are deleted. I forget if the wiki has tags, but it might be good to tag pages you've reviewed. > - Go ahead :) - sounds good to me. Me too. :-) Best Regards, Martin Owens -- ___ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
Hi Maren (and whoever else might be interested), For the new faq item pointing to the roadmap, I'm thinking in the first section Did you already do this? Or was it already done, and I didn't realize it? That's why it's showing unpublished? (banging head smiley again!) Ok if I add the caution about the flexibility of the roadmap? Re the list of wiki articles that I thought needed to be added to documentation, that are currently linked from the faq. Ok, so attached is a new document I started, with these faq items at the top, and we can add below as we work through the wiki. Briefly, it sounds like we agree that #1 and #2 would be good to be documented. #3 and #4 are no longer applicable (the faq items which linked to them aren't there anymore -- I think there was some last minute editing, or otherwise sometime since I wrote that list, that those items were either dropped or changed, and the info isn't needed). However, I think it would be awesome to have instructions for compiling, for all 3 supported systems! #5 is the Illustrator info. When I first started with Inkscape, there was some demand for this info. I used to see messages in forums from Illustrator users wishing to switch over -- at least enough messages to warrant the article or chapter in the manual. I haven't seen a message like that for probably.2 or 3 years. I'm not sure why. It seems to me that the info should still be relevant (current info, I mean, current to both programs). But let's not get too hung up on how to accomplish this stuff. Let's just make the list for Step 1. And maybe by the time we're done, we'll be getting some ideas about Step 2. How does that sound? Shortly after I send this, I'll add the list of 10 or 15 pages from the list I told you I had started (separate from the 1 for the faq), and we can discuss whenever we have time. Does that sound ok? All best, brynn -- From: "Maren Hachmann" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 8:52 AM To: "Brynn" ; Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki? Hi Brynn, Am 20.06.2015 um 06:00 schrieb Brynn: Hi Maren, Out of curiosity, when you type "wik" in you browser, how does it know to find the Inkscape wiki, and not Wikipedia, or Wikimedia, or some other program's wiki, etc? - The browser proposes the pages I have visited most often first ;) The other pages range below in the list it shows me. If users are looking to the Roadmap as "set in stone" then they simply need to be informed properly. For as long as I've been using Inkscape (8 years), the wiki has been a resource for both users and developers. Most of them have no idea that it's being groomed as 'developer only'. Ask Martin how many times I asked him to confirm that, Yes, the wiki will only be for developers. At least 4 or 5, as I recall. **It's a radical change, and afaik, I'm the only user who knows that.** - I'm a user, too ;) New people who want to download, or learn about Inkscape - at least in my google results - are guided to inkscape.org, not to wiki.inkscape.org. For the first few weeks that I was here, I didn't even know the Wiki existed (until I translated the pages that link to it). It seems this was different in a time when I haven't been part of the project, didn't know that. Not only do I have a list of wiki articles that are user-related, that are linked from the FAQ (attached), I actually started to make a list of ALL wiki articles that are for users. But I started getting tripped up when I came to things I didn't understand, and wasn't sure if they were for users or not. I would be glad to start working on that again, if I could get some guidance from you, on pages where I have questions. All I could do is make a list, but that might be a starting place for someone else? - Sounds like we have a volunteer ;) - seriously, I believe it's a good idea to make a list of which info should be accessible more easily to users. I can't promise we can take *everything* to the website (esp. those things that will be in the manual might not be needed there), but we should find out what could be missing, and give it proper thought. (Note that when I first started working on the FAQ, I don't think you were involved yet. After I announced some of my work on the dev mailing list, it was Bryce who said that if I found info in the wiki which really should be in the documentation, to make note of it. It's possible that it's not appropriate for some of this to be documented, but that was my best understanding at the time.) I guess the FAQ would be my best idea as the best place for the Roadmap to be linked, if it should not be on the website. But it would go a long way towards preventing users from thinking it's "a done deal" by putting a simple sentence at the top of the page, to that effect. That could also be
