Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
Hi Maren, Is compiling a user topic? Or is this developer realm? For me, it's a bit in a grey zone in between, but more on the dev side. Testers would need that. Or people who want to offer Inkscape for download. Perhaps you would be surprised how many Inkscape users like to use the development build? Witness this old topic from IF (circa 2008): http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6t=1289 I don't think snapshots are still available, although I could be wrong. And this quite new topic (couple of weeks ago): http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11t=18869 There have been many times I would like to use a development version for short term projects, although not for my regular use, except I don't know how to compile. (I found the development version of Ponyscape in a zip file, and I do play with that now and then. But I don't otherwise keep up with Ponyscape development.) For those Inkscape users who already know how to compile, they do use dev versions. As far as I can tell, when someone knows how to compile, they prefer the development version. I could name you 5 users right now, using a dev version, (or who would, if available for Windows) and given some time could list 10 or more. You could add that to the to-do list, to a new 'Website' section, as 'needs update' Just like these: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/testing/, https://inkscape.org/en/develop/debugging/ (that last one might just need a quick glance by someone who knows how it works, could still be current) You lost me there. To-do list, new Website section, needs update?? If I understand what you're saying, I might be about to post a new message on a subject related to to-do list. All best, brynn -- From: Maren Hachmann ma...@goos-habermann.de Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 12:03 PM To: Brynn br...@frii.com; inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki? Hi Brynn, Am 20.06.2015 um 20:50 schrieb Brynn: Hi Maren (and whoever else might be interested), For the new faq item pointing to the roadmap, I'm thinking in the first section Did you already do this? Or was it already done, and I didn't realize it? That's why it's showing unpublished? (banging head smiley again!) Ok if I add the caution about the flexibility of the roadmap? - Right, it's already in the FAQ: https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#Will_there_be_an_Inkscape_1.00?_What_would_it_be_like? Yes, please add the note about possible changes / not taking that by the letter there. Re the list of wiki articles that I thought needed to be added to documentation, that are currently linked from the faq. Ok, so attached is a new document I started, with these faq items at the top, and we can add below as we work through the wiki. - Nice :) Briefly, it sounds like we agree that #1 and #2 would be good to be documented. #3 and #4 are no longer applicable (the faq items which linked to them aren't there anymore -- I think there was some last minute editing, or otherwise sometime since I wrote that list, that those items were either dropped or changed, and the info isn't needed). However, I think it would be awesome to have instructions for compiling, for all 3 supported systems! - Yes :) But those instructions (esp. the necessary libraries you need to install before you compile) change rapidly (relative to Inkscape-time units :)). I don't know if it is possible to make them so generic as to keep them current for as long as possible. Is compiling a user topic? Or is this developer realm? For me, it's a bit in a grey zone in between, but more on the dev side. Testers would need that. Or people who want to offer Inkscape for download. For the normal users, pre-release versions are available for download for previewing when a new release is nearing, and daily builds for Ubuntu are available all the time, too. I think ~suv is creating OS X builds regularly. Compiling on Linux/Debian-based systems is quite generic and easy, and there's a (mostly, don't know about dependencies) current version on the Wiki: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/CompilingUbuntu For Windows, the last update by TheAdib is from last summer: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Creating_Inkscape_distributions#Creating_a_Windows_Distro For OS X, there's a clearly outdated guide: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/CompilingMacOsX Oh, oops - I just found that the info *is* already on the website: https://inkscape.org/en/develop/getting-started/ (could probably profit from an update, though) You could add that to the to-do list, to a new 'Website' section, as 'needs update' Just like these: https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/testing/, https://inkscape.org/en/develop/debugging/ (that last one might just need a quick glance by someone who knows how it works, could
Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
Ask Martin how many times I asked him to confirm that, Yes, the wiki will only be for developers. At least 4 or 5, as I recall. **It's a radical change, and afaik, I'm the only user who knows that.** There is a (very) long term plan. It allows us to move away from the wiki completely for all uses. But it requires our website to be more stable and capable. So for now, to make sure various groups get comfortable with writing on the website and allow for translations, I made the decision that the wiki should only be used for notes, drafting, development and all those non-user facing works. But this isn't set in stone. The concerns are maintainability going forwards of our various resources. I would be glad to start working on that again, if I could get some guidance from you, on pages where I have questions. All I could do is make a list, but that might be a starting place for someone else? - Sounds like we have a volunteer ;) - seriously, I believe it's a good idea to make a list of which info should be accessible more easily to users. I can't promise we can take *everything* to the website (esp. those things that will be in the manual might not be needed there), but we should find out what could be missing, and give it proper thought. Take such a job one page at a time and make sure the pages in the wiki are deleted. I forget if the wiki has tags, but it might be good to tag pages you've reviewed. - Go ahead :) - sounds good to me. Me too. :-) Best Regards, Martin Owens -- ___ Inkscape-docs mailing list Inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs
Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
Hi Maren (and whoever else might be interested), For the new faq item pointing to the roadmap, I'm thinking in the first section Did you already do this? Or was it already done, and I didn't realize it? That's why it's showing unpublished? (banging head smiley again!) Ok if I add the caution about the flexibility of the roadmap? Re the list of wiki articles that I thought needed to be added to documentation, that are currently linked from the faq. Ok, so attached is a new document I started, with these faq items at the top, and we can add below as we work through the wiki. Briefly, it sounds like we agree that #1 and #2 would be good to be documented. #3 and #4 are no longer applicable (the faq items which linked to them aren't there anymore -- I think there was some last minute editing, or otherwise sometime since I wrote that list, that those items were either dropped or changed, and the info isn't needed). However, I think it would be awesome to have instructions for compiling, for all 3 supported systems! #5 is the Illustrator info. When I first started with Inkscape, there was some demand for this info. I used to see messages in forums from Illustrator users wishing to switch over -- at least enough messages to warrant the article or chapter in the manual. I haven't seen a message like that for probably.2 or 3 years. I'm not sure why. It seems to me that the info should still be relevant (current info, I mean, current to both programs). But let's not get too hung up on how to accomplish this stuff. Let's just make the list for Step 1. And maybe by the time we're done, we'll be getting some ideas about Step 2. How does that sound? Shortly after I send this, I'll add the list of 10 or 15 pages from the list I told you I had started (separate from the 1 for the faq), and we can discuss whenever we have time. Does that sound ok? All best, brynn -- From: Maren Hachmann ma...@goos-habermann.de Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 8:52 AM To: Brynn br...@frii.com; inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki? Hi Brynn, Am 20.06.2015 um 06:00 schrieb Brynn: Hi Maren, Out of curiosity, when you type wik in you browser, how does it know to find the Inkscape wiki, and not Wikipedia, or Wikimedia, or some other program's wiki, etc? - The browser proposes the pages I have visited most often first ;) The other pages range below in the list it shows me. If users are looking to the Roadmap as set in stone then they simply need to be informed properly. For as long as I've been using Inkscape (8 years), the wiki has been a resource for both users and developers. Most of them have no idea that it's being groomed as 'developer only'. Ask Martin how many times I asked him to confirm that, Yes, the wiki will only be for developers. At least 4 or 5, as I recall. **It's a radical change, and afaik, I'm the only user who knows that.** - I'm a user, too ;) New people who want to download, or learn about Inkscape - at least in my google results - are guided to inkscape.org, not to wiki.inkscape.org. For the first few weeks that I was here, I didn't even know the Wiki existed (until I translated the pages that link to it). It seems this was different in a time when I haven't been part of the project, didn't know that. Not only do I have a list of wiki articles that are user-related, that are linked from the FAQ (attached), I actually started to make a list of ALL wiki articles that are for users. But I started getting tripped up when I came to things I didn't understand, and wasn't sure if they were for users or not. I would be glad to start working on that again, if I could get some guidance from you, on pages where I have questions. All I could do is make a list, but that might be a starting place for someone else? - Sounds like we have a volunteer ;) - seriously, I believe it's a good idea to make a list of which info should be accessible more easily to users. I can't promise we can take *everything* to the website (esp. those things that will be in the manual might not be needed there), but we should find out what could be missing, and give it proper thought. (Note that when I first started working on the FAQ, I don't think you were involved yet. After I announced some of my work on the dev mailing list, it was Bryce who said that if I found info in the wiki which really should be in the documentation, to make note of it. It's possible that it's not appropriate for some of this to be documented, but that was my best understanding at the time.) I guess the FAQ would be my best idea as the best place for the Roadmap to be linked, if it should not be on the website. But it would go a long way towards preventing users from thinking it's a done deal by putting a simple
Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki?
Hi Maren, Out of curiosity, when you type wik in you browser, how does it know to find the Inkscape wiki, and not Wikipedia, or Wikimedia, or some other program's wiki, etc? If users are looking to the Roadmap as set in stone then they simply need to be informed properly. For as long as I've been using Inkscape (8 years), the wiki has been a resource for both users and developers. Most of them have no idea that it's being groomed as 'developer only'. Ask Martin how many times I asked him to confirm that, Yes, the wiki will only be for developers. At least 4 or 5, as I recall. **It's a radical change, and afaik, I'm the only user who knows that.** Not only do I have a list of wiki articles that are user-related, that are linked from the FAQ (attached), I actually started to make a list of ALL wiki articles that are for users. But I started getting tripped up when I came to things I didn't understand, and wasn't sure if they were for users or not. I would be glad to start working on that again, if I could get some guidance from you, on pages where I have questions. All I could do is make a list, but that might be a starting place for someone else? (Note that when I first started working on the FAQ, I don't think you were involved yet. After I announced some of my work on the dev mailing list, it was Bryce who said that if I found info in the wiki which really should be in the documentation, to make note of it. It's possible that it's not appropriate for some of this to be documented, but that was my best understanding at the time.) I guess the FAQ would be my best idea as the best place for the Roadmap to be linked, if it should not be on the website. But it would go a long way towards preventing users from thinking it's a done deal by putting a simple sentence at the top of the page, to that effect. That could also be said in the faq. I was just about to add those couple of links I've been putting off adding. So shall I make the new faq item for the roadmap, while I'm at it? - You're quite hardy :) I've internally categorized most of the Wiki pages as 'outdated' or 'describing a plan, but not necessarily the real implementation'... Inkscape forums can be quite competitive, as to who gets the right answer. Although it's never really verbalized, many are aware! Where can I look to find out whether a page is outdated or describing a plan? Could you keep track of the kind of info you are looking up, so we can maybe find a way to include the main components on the website? I don't remember everything I've looked up, but once was info about the new Symbols dialog. And if the new manual comes out pretty soon, I won't have to go to the wiki anymore. This is a whole other subject, but I wish we had like a team to write the manual, so it wouldn't all be on 1 person's shoulders! I mean, Inkscape really should have it's own official manual, rather than an official manual. And imo, the official manual should be on the website. But again, that's another subject. Thanks, brynn -- From: Maren Hachmann ma...@goos-habermann.de Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 12:46 PM To: Brynn br...@frii.com; inkscape-docs@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] more prominent link to the wiki? Hi Brynn, Am 19.06.2015 um 05:19 schrieb Brynn: Hi Maren, Yes, I understand that the intent for the wiki is more for developers. I didn't mean there should be a more prominent link for users to get to the wiki. I meant for developers, but others could use it too. - Mmh. For devs, the link isn't too hidden, I think: https://inkscape.org/en/develop/ , fourth paragraph (but also new devs should not rely on the info in the Wiki being up to date). I usually just type 'wik' into my browser's address line, and then autocompletion kicks in... I don't know. Maybe developers just don't need to go from website to wiki. Maybe it's just me. But fwiw, what I'm looking for most often is the Release Notes, - I think that for the next version we could try and get the Release Notes on the website when they are finalized. They are an important part of the documentation. This will also make it easier for our translators' team (who have access to website editing, but most don't have wiki privileges) to translate them (translating Release Notes is a difficult task by itself...). Roadmap, - The Roadmap is being changed by devs all the time - and users should not rely on it too much - but unfortunately, they often take it by the letter, and are then disappointed... It's good info, but I'm a bit hesitant to put it on the website. Is there a place on the website which could profit from a direct link to the Roadmap? (maybe: The Next Release, FAQ, Features?) and I often search the wiki while trying to answer support questions from forums. - You're quite hardy
