Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
To my knowledge, very few tests that have been coordinated over the past few years have had any issues with QSL's. Some have taken a long time to be received, and in one case there was a change of ownership after the test, which resulted in the station manager having to find a new job before QSL's could be issued. Otherwise, QSL's have been received. Some objected to receiving QSL's from the Test Coordinator or anyone else other than the station directly. But in almost every case, QSL's have been received. I have a few Postal QSL requests from a test ran earlier this year still sitting on my test, waiting for me to find time to review the cassettes. But that will happen and QSL's will be shipped out before year's end. The delay is regrettable, but in fairness to all, we asked for MP3 files and e-mails, postal and cassettes were a secondary choice. At least two of the cassette recordings contain over an hours worth of material that I'm supposed to find time to listen to, and dig out the DX test. Frankly, Konnie, I think your attitude is a poor one. There is no comparison between ham radio DXing and MW DXing as it pertains to QSL's. The stations are not in the hobby business, they're in the making money business. Any test, QSL, or other extra effort on their part is a gift and should be treated as such. If you want verification make a recording and keep it. That proves your reception much more than any piece of paper. We all like to receive QSL's, and I understand that for some, they're a big part of the hobby. But the attitude shift that is needed is on the part of the DX'ers, not the broadcasters. I think Jim and the new BTC are doing a bang up job. So far, I've promptly received QSL's for two tests that I've received this fall. And I've got some new stations in the log. My hat is off to them. 73, Les Rayburn, N1LF Les Rayburn, director High Noon Film 100 Centerview Drive Suite 111 Birmingham, AL 35216 205.824.8930 205.824.8960 fax 205.253.4867 cell -- From: Konnie Rychalsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:40 PM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking? Most QSLs I receive from stations are from those who were or currently are Ham radio operators. I will remain gratefull with a QSL. I include a friendly letter with my reports showing examples of QSLs, even on an idea for a quick make-shift QSL if the station doesn't have one [and I'll add I've received phonecalls in return stating they were interested.] Maybe if you'll ask, you'll be surprised on the answer, and therefore help the station and the hobby. The reason for hearing a distant station is to have your reception confirmed, as proof, and that is done via a QSL card. Somehow, coordinating a test and not checking into a QSL response just falls short to the hobby that began long before you or I were even born. To settle for less, doesn't help the hobby. Personally, anything less is just that, something less. I believe your response has lead me to question if it is worth staying up, or getting up, to listen to a test anymore. Who's suppossed to share the DX QSL with the station, if the test coordinator doesn't? Don't you think that if a station will not issue a QSL, we should know that ahead of time? I cannot find your explanation to ask, or educate, adequatly helps the hobby. A fish is a fish, a worm is a worm, and a QSL is a QSL. As for these days one of the problems of receiving less than a QSL just may be found in your response. Maybe instead of a stamp, each DXer can send in a dollar, and with the $10 - $20, you can supply the station with a gift...uh, QSL cards!! about 100 worth. You will have left the hobby a better place than you found it. Then, dxers will be gratefull to you and the IRCA for making a difference. What is the IRCA for anyway? And coming from a Ham radio operator God, that was simple. People
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Thanks for the kind words Les - and I'll repeat what I have said before: we are simply continuing the great work done by you, J.D. and other BTC/CPC coordinators for many, many decades. I am fortunate in having a great team to work with and that has made it all great fun. All the best, Jim -- Original message -- From: Les Rayburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To my knowledge, very few tests that have been coordinated over the past few years have had any issues with QSL's. Some have taken a long time to be received, and in one case there was a change of ownership after the test, which resulted in the station manager having to find a new job before QSL's could be issued. Otherwise, QSL's have been received. Some objected to receiving QSL's from the Test Coordinator or anyone else other than the station directly. But in almost every case, QSL's have been received. I have a few Postal QSL requests from a test ran earlier this year still sitting on my test, waiting for me to find time to review the cassettes. But that will happen and QSL's will be shipped out before year's end. The delay is regrettable, but in fairness to all, we asked for MP3 files and e-mails, postal and cassettes were a secondary choice. At least two of the cassette recordings contain over an hours worth of material that I'm supposed to find time to listen to, and dig out the DX test. Frankly, Konnie, I think your attitude is a poor one. There is no comparison between ham radio DXing and MW DXing as it pertains to QSL's. The stations are not in the hobby business, they're in the making money business. Any test, QSL, or other extra effort on their part is a gift and should be treated as such. If you want verification make a recording and keep it. That proves your reception much more than any piece of paper. We all like to receive QSL's, and I understand that for some, they're a big part of the hobby. But the attitude shift that is needed is on the part of the DX'ers, not the broadcasters. I think Jim and the new BTC are doing a bang up job. So far, I've promptly received QSL's for two tests that I've received this fall. And I've got some new stations in the log. My hat is off to them. 73, Les Rayburn, N1LF Les Rayburn, director High Noon Film 100 Centerview Drive Suite 111 Birmingham, AL 35216 205.824.8930 205.824.8960 fax 205.253.4867 cell -- From: Konnie Rychalsky Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:40 PM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking? Most QSLs I receive from stations are from those who were or currently are Ham radio operators. I will remain gratefull with a QSL. I include a friendly letter with my reports showing examples of QSLs, even on an idea for a quick make-shift QSL if the station doesn't have one [and I'll add I've received phonecalls in return stating they were interested.] Maybe if you'll ask, you'll be surprised on the answer, and therefore help the station and the hobby. The reason for hearing a distant station is to have your reception confirmed, as proof, and that is done via a QSL card. Somehow, coordinating a test and not checking into a QSL response just falls short to the hobby that began long before you or I were even born. To settle for less, doesn't help the hobby. Personally, anything less is just that, something less. I believe your response has lead me to question if it is worth staying up, or getting up, to listen to a test anymore. Who's suppossed to share the DX QSL with the station, if the test coordinator doesn't? Don't you think that if a station will not issue a QSL, we should know that ahead of time? I cannot find your explanation to ask, or educate, adequatly helps the hobby. A fish is a fish, a worm is a worm, and a QSL is a QSL. As for these days one of the problems of receiving less than a QSL just may
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Les, I totally agree. Any QSL's we receive are a wonderful gift from the station. HAM radio is much different. QSLing is a huge part of that hobby. Stations are there to make money and keep their head above water. We should all be very thankful with any QSLs we get back. This is not 1965. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Les and patrick are syaing things that areExactly what I said several posts back that no one seemed to reply to. Paul On Nov 26, 2007 2:43 PM, Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Les, I totally agree. Any QSL's we receive are a wonderful gift from the station. HAM radio is much different. QSLing is a huge part of that hobby. Stations are there to make money and keep their head above water. We should all be very thankful with any QSLs we get back. This is not 1965. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Patrick and Les and group HAM radio is much different. QSLing is a huge part of that hobby. I agree with everything that Les has said on this subject. And as a clarification of what Patrick said, it is true that QSLing is a big part of the amateur radio hobby as ARRL awards are based on QSLs. Unfortunately, many operators do not care at all about this aspect of the hobby anymore. The overall return rate on the ARRL's Logbook of the World (electronic) QSLing program is somewhere around 7%. With eQSL, it is more like 5%. I probably have a higher percentage with paper QSLs, only because I send mine to those operators who state that they QSL 100%, and if the state is not needed, I probably won't send my request in the first place. Whether it's SW, MW, FM, or amateur, I am thankful for each and every QSL I receive. Thanks for letting me add my observation. 73 de Joe, KJ8O Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
--- Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Les, I totally agree. Any QSL's we receive are a wonderful gift from the station. That is true. HAM radio is much different. QSLing is a huge part of that hobby. No, it is NOT. It is only to the DX'ers that do contests, and county hunting, and other DX awards. These folks can be aggressive and really annoying. There's more hams that just don't, and there is no longer a requirement to keep a log, though a lot still do. Stations are there to make money and keep their head above water. We should all be very thankful with any QSLs we get back. This is not 1965. You are right about that one. Maybe even 1955 !! Powell POP email is powell at backroads DOT net ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Powell, Since I am not a HAM, I don't follow them all that much these days. So, QSLing for HAMs has really dropped off too. That is too bad, but I guess the times do change. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Thank you Paul. Yes, many of us that are/have been on the other end, as QSLers, see the good the bad. Fortunately with KAVT, I have only received one bad report in the years I have been doing the QSLing. Everyone has been very nice with their reports. But I have heard from others who QSL, that some reports from DXers are very nasy and rude. All it takes is one or two of those to shut down QSLing from some stations. These station are already swamped with work and an uunfriendly letter, phone call, or e mail ruins it for everyone. So we should all go out of our way to see things from the stations/QSLers point of view. The thank you line, or letter, card, always helps. I know of one DXer that used to send flowers to the station after a DX Test. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Patrick: When you said So we should all go out of our way to see things from the stations/QSLers point of view. In this whole email exchange of 23 or so emails, thats the point I've been trying to make. Stations go out of their way for us, we DX'ers should do it for them. However, I get the sense .. that some DX;'ers think they are OWED DX tests, QSL and the like. Paul On Nov 26, 2007 3:26 PM, Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you Paul. Yes, many of us that are/have been on the other end, as QSLers, see the good the bad. Fortunately with KAVT, I have only received one bad report in the years I have been doing the QSLing. Everyone has been very nice with their reports. But I have heard from others who QSL, that some reports from DXers are very nasy and rude. All it takes is one or two of those to shut down QSLing from some stations. These station are already swamped with work and an uunfriendly letter, phone call, or e mail ruins it for everyone. So we should all go out of our way to see things from the stations/QSLers point of view. The thank you line, or letter, card, always helps. I know of one DXer that used to send flowers to the station after a DX Test. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com -- Sincerely, Paul B. Walker, Jr. www.walkerbroadcasting.com www.myspace.com/walkerbroadcasting ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
HAM radio is much different. QSLing is a huge part of that hobby. I agree with everything that Les has said on this subject. And as a clarification of what Patrick said, it is true that QSLing is a big part of the amateur radio hobby as ARRL awards are based on QSLs. Getting my two cents in on Joe's comments. Last week I received a QSL from YL2EC. This came through the burue. I worked YL2EC on 4 August 1992. It took about 16 years to get the card. But did get the card, and only because the person at the W5 QSL bureau caed enough to look up my new call letters and address and then forward the card on to me. You don't find that type of caring among with AM stations or fellow AM DXers. Case in point: Paul where is that stamped envelop you said you would send for those bumper stickers It's now been two weeks and I promised it today to Phil Bytheway. Unfortunately, many operators do not care at all about this aspect of the hobby anymore. The overall return rate on the ARRL's Logbook of the World (electronic) QSLing program is somewhere around 7%. With eQSL, it is more like 5%. I probably have a higher percentage with paper QSLs, only because I send mine to those operators who state that they QSL 100%, and if the state is not needed, I probably won't send my request in the first place. One reason may be the cost of printing and mailing the cards. What cost me around 25.00 in 1973, now cost 125.00. My SSI check will not go that far. I know it have slowed me down. As for eQSL cards I never think of doing it. I find that many person here in the area don't think about it. It had to get the members of the ham club just read any bulletins on our club web site. Mailing a newsletter to all members is to costly. Have noticed that the vast majoity of BCB stations have personel who have never heard of QSLs, or do they know how to respond to a reception report. And I will add that the big stations don't care. 73's Willis ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
--- Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Powell, Since I am not a HAM, I don't follow them all that much these days. So, QSLing for HAMs has really dropped off too. That is too bad, but I guess the times do change. In my experiences in ham radio on VHF, going back even 20-30 years, I had a return of about 85-90% on those I sent. But as Powell said, I only sent them if it was a new state or a new grid square, or county. The result being that I probably sent QSL's out on 15-20% of my contacts overall more obviously earlier and fewer later, and many of the others I knew and/or worked operated pretty much the same way. I can't say that I knew anyone who actually requested a QSL from every new contact solely for the purpose of collecting them. Probably a greater per centage of active hams send cards regularly than BCB DX'ers send reports -- meaning fewer individuals doing it - but the margin probably isn't great. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id [EMAIL PROTECTED] FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Hammarlund HQ-150 4' FET air core loop Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Unfortunately, many operators do not care at all about this aspect of the hobby anymore. The overall return rate on the ARRL's Logbook of the World (electronic) QSLing program is somewhere around 7%. With eQSL, it is more like 5%. I probably have a higher percentage with paper QSLs, only because I send mine to those operators who state that they QSL 100%, and if the state is not needed, I probably won't send my request in the first place. I haven't been too active on HF, but my 6 meter return rate with SASE's is about 70 to 75% for needed grid squares. 2m SSB rate is close to 100%. I think that many of the new hams that I work on 6 meters love exchanging QSL cards and the Techs I hear talking about HF DX on the 2m repeaters seem to love QSLing as well. I return paper QSL's quickly, eQSL's slowly, and LOTW I don't do because I don't log every single contact on the computer. As far as MW DX, while it would be nice to have an actual card from a station, a verification letter just doesn't do it for me, so I just use the audio clip that I make when I hear them. I record everything. My .02 John K9RZZ Milwaukee Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Frankly, Konnie, I think your attitude is a poor one. Amen to that! If you want verification make a recording and keep it. That proves your reception much more than any piece of paper. This is what I do and I have a monster pile of CDs to go back and remember the catch. I think Jim and the new BTC are doing a bang up job. I agree. I have scheduled tests in the past for IRCA and at times for ABDX and I can tell the readers that its not that easy to get a test scheduled, it is a special favor from the station who gives up some revenue to put on the tests and a QSL is nice but not mandatory. If you record it, you have it forever. If you get a QSL also, its icing on the cake. Nice, but you don't have to have one. The stations, they already know where they can be heard. Kevin ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
HAM Radio operators QSL that poorly? Wow. No wonder getting a QSL out of some CEs that are HAMs is not any easier. It looks like HAM radio is going down the tubes too. That is really sad. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Russ, 75-90% is what I would have expected, if not better. But it looks like QSLs are becoming harder to get everywhere. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Paul, One nasty letter, e mail, or phone call from a DXer ruins things for the rest of us. I have heard this first hand from CEs I know. Some are just not interested in going the extra mile for us any longer. Some people feel that those stations were not interested in replying anyway, so it my be an excuse, but whatever the case, we all need to put our best foot forward. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
There's NO excuse.. NO MATTER WHAT.. for a DX'er to harass or bother a station over a QSL that wans't issued. Paul On Nov 26, 2007 8:13 PM, Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul, One nasty letter, e mail, or phone call from a DXer ruins things for the rest of us. I have heard this first hand from CEs I know. Some are just not interested in going the extra mile for us any longer. Some people feel that those stations were not interested in replying anyway, so it my be an excuse, but whatever the case, we all need to put our best foot forward. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com -- Sincerely, Paul B. Walker, Jr. www.walkerbroadcasting.com www.myspace.com/walkerbroadcasting ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Pal, Of course there is no excuse for a bad attitude, but still DXers will do it. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Fortunately, there are a lot of good operators out there who still issue them. I really enjoy the special event stations, as you are practically guarenteed of getting a card once you complete the QSO. But these are largely civic groups that are doing this out of their enjoyment as well. P.S. please save one of your KAVT QSL cards for me, I'll be in California for week. 73 de Joe --- Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HAM Radio operators QSL that poorly? Wow. No wonder getting a QSL out of some CEs that are HAMs is not any easier. It looks like HAM radio is going down the tubes too. That is really sad. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
No, there isn't. But speaking as a long time broadcast engineer it's also wrong for a station employee to paint all DXers with the same brush. It's probably a situation where the person didn't want to be bothered and latched onto a convenient excuse to opt out of the QSL game. Nothing to be done for it, though, right or wrong.. Craig Healy Providence, RI - Original Message - From: Paul B. Walker, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America irca@hard-core-dx.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby There's NO excuse.. NO MATTER WHAT.. for a DX'er to harass or bother a station over a QSL that wans't issued. Paul On Nov 26, 2007 8:13 PM, Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul, One nasty letter, e mail, or phone call from a DXer ruins things for the rest of us. I have heard this first hand from CEs I know. Some are just not interested in going the extra mile for us any longer. Some people feel that those stations were not interested in replying anyway, so it my be an excuse, but whatever the case, we all need to put our best foot forward. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com -- Sincerely, Paul B. Walker, Jr. www.walkerbroadcasting.com www.myspace.com/walkerbroadcasting ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
--- Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, 75-90% is what I would have expected, if not better. But it looks like QSLs are becoming harder to get everywhere. One of things I've found is that when you send a card to one of the big club stations which is operating a contest remotely ( which is about the only way I'd get that grid or county ) make so many contacts on so many bands that they're buried in cards. I've had a few come out of the woodwork 2-3 years later. Some of them simply get so many that they don't respond. And this is all as of about 4-5 years ago, which is the last time I sent any out myself. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id [EMAIL PROTECTED] FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Hammarlund HQ-150 4' FET air core loop Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Hi Patrick I think in all fairness to hams, fortunately the hobby is not going down the tubes (just the QSL part). Michigan's count is up 1.5% from last year, ARRL is always reporting near record crowds for it's various contests such as Field Day, and the emergency aspects of ham radio is second to none. Just my two cents. 73 de Joe --- Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HAM Radio operators QSL that poorly? Wow. No wonder getting a QSL out of some CEs that are HAMs is not any easier. It looks like HAM radio is going down the tubes too. That is really sad. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Joe, The seaside HAM convention always seems to get a lot too. But unfortunately, we are all getting grey. Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Having caught up on my e-mails after a very enjoyable holiday, I read with great interest through the Poor excuses thread started by Mr. Rychalsky. Which prompts me to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving, good DX, and say that the below is a total load of crap! 73 - J.D. Stephens From: Konnie Rychalsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking? Most QSLs I receive from stations are from those who were or currently are Ham radio operators. I will remain gratefull with a QSL. I include a friendly letter with my reports showing examples of QSLs, even on an idea for a quick make-shift QSL if the station doesn't have one [and I'll add I've received phonecalls in return stating they were interested.] Maybe if you'll ask, you'll be surprised on the answer, and therefore help the station and the hobby. The reason for hearing a distant station is to have your reception confirmed, as proof, and that is done via a QSL card. Somehow, coordinating a test and not checking into a QSL response just falls short to the hobby that began long before you or I were even born. To settle for less, doesn't help the hobby. Personally, anything less is just that, ! something less. I believe your response has lead me to question if it is worth staying up, or getting up, to listen to a test anymore. Who's suppossed to share the DX QSL with the station, if the test coordinator doesn't? Don't you think that if a station will not issue a QSL, we should know that ahead of time? I cannot find your explanation to ask, or educate, adequatly helps the hobby. A fish is a fish, a worm is a worm, and a QSL is a QSL. As for these days one of the problems of receiving less than a QSL just may be found in your response. Maybe instead of a stamp, each DXer can send in a dollar, and with the $10 - $20, you can supply the station with a gift...uh, QSL cards!! about 100 worth. You will have left the hobby a better place than you found it. Then, dxers will be gratefull to you and the IRCA for making a difference. What is the IRCA for anyway? And coming from a Ham radio operator God, that was simple. People, stop settling for less, and poor excuses. Get involved in your hobby! Stop looking for what you can get, and add selfishly to a raggetty old shoe box full of mold and mildew stuck in a closet that won't see light for another ten years... and starting looking on how to give to others, including an education on what a QSL really is, and supply them. There needs to be a serious attitude shift here. That should start the keyboards clicking, eh? Konnie SW CT Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Very succintly put! J.D. Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having caught up on my e-mails after a very enjoyable holiday, I read with great interest through the Poor excuses thread started by Mr. Rychalsky. Which prompts me to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving, good DX, and say that the below is a total load of crap! 73 - J.D. Stephens From: Konnie Rychalsky Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking? Most QSLs I receive from stations are from those who were or currently are Ham radio operators. I will remain gratefull with a QSL. I include a friendly letter with my reports showing examples of QSLs, even on an idea for a quick make-shift QSL if the station doesn't have one [and I'll add I've received phonecalls in return stating they were interested.] Maybe if you'll ask, you'll be surprised on the answer, and therefore help the station and the hobby. The reason for hearing a distant station is to have your reception confirmed, as proof, and that is done via a QSL card. Somehow, coordinating a test and not checking into a QSL response just falls short to the hobby that began long before you or I were even born. To settle for less, doesn't help the hobby. Personally, anything less is just that, ! something less. I believe your response has lead me to question if it is worth staying up, or getting up, to listen to a test anymore. Who's suppossed to share the DX QSL with the station, if the test coordinator doesn't? Don't you think that if a station will not issue a QSL, we should know that ahead of time? I cannot find your explanation to ask, or educate, adequatly helps the hobby. A fish is a fish, a worm is a worm, and a QSL is a QSL. As for these days one of the problems of receiving less than a QSL just may be found in your response. Maybe instead of a stamp, each DXer can send in a dollar, and with the $10 - $20, you can supply the station with a gift...uh, QSL cards!! about 100 worth. You will have left the hobby a better place than you found it. Then, dxers will be gratefull to you and the IRCA for making a difference. What is the IRCA for anyway? And coming from a Ham radio operator God, that was simple. People, stop settling for less, and poor excuses. Get involved in your hobby! Stop looking for what you can get, and add selfishly to a raggetty old shoe box full of mold and mildew stuck in a closet that won't see light for another ten years... and starting looking on how to give to others, including an education on what a QSL really is, and supply them. There needs to be a serious attitude shift here. That should start the keyboards clicking, eh? Konnie SW CT Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com - Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Konnie, I read this and thought I should respond since I'm an avid QSL collector. In an ideal world, all stations would send out beautiful full data QSL cards and anything else we asked for. But when did that ever happen? I can't get to my QSL albums right now due to an office remodel but I would bet that even in the 1970s when I started DXing, all the stations didn't send full data QSLs. An these were days when most stations had a printed card. I take anything from the station that says that I heard them. I would rather have better, but reality is that it's better than nothing and that the person spent time reading my letter. QSL response rates for me have been OK, 75%. But it takes second letters, emails and just finding someone with interest that will take the time. A large percentage of my QSLs are prepared cards now. I use local postcards and type the statement for them to sign. Some don't even sign them, they just throw them in the mail. Others throw them in the trash. And I've had hams that have stiffed me for a QSL because it's not ham radio, like listening is inferior. Konnie, maybe you can share some of your experiences on QSLing with us. How many do you get and how many meet your strict criteria? Are you even reporting your QSLs to the club? QSL collecting is a dying part of the hobby and we're just changing with the times. Martin Foltz Mission Viejo CA Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 23:40:48 -0500 From: Konnie Rychalsky Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at Konnie SW CT ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Russ, Well, as an avid QSLer and with me, the two do go together. OK, mentioning WRGG, WISN, and WOKY. Two out of three for me Ain't bad and I got em' QSL'd, but it took a bit of work. The GM at WRGG with a ppc and the next CE inline with WISN, with a letter verie. I never def IDed WOKY during the test. But, as I stated earlier, whatever we get back from a station is ok with me. I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. You are right, the QSL results today are poor compared to even 10 years ago. Things changed drastically around 2001/2002. Why, I have no idea? When I moved back to the OR coast from Portland in 1979, I was in QSL heaven. Not unusual to get 50 or more QSLs in a month. Even in the 80s, the return rate was way up there. It started to change a bit in the 90s, but still a f/up would get the reply. PPCs were not all that common. I could normally coax that verie letter out of a station in most caes. But, after the turn of the century, things changed very quickly, almost over-night. The attitude toiwards the DXer changed very much. Some fly in the ointment changed all that. Corporate ownership may have had some effect, but hey, there were corporations that owned stations in the 80s 90s and the reply rate was still good. But, I just saw an attitude change, where the station did not have that interest in reports. When talking to them, they were generally polite, but I did not hear that interest in their voices. Something changed, rude reports from DXers? Who knows? I have heard stories along those lines, but there have always been those. The general excuse today is, the station does not have time. Well, in my book, if there was the interest, the time would be taken to respond. Maybe some stations are waiting for IBOC to become that reality for more than one reason. Stations all go digital, no more QSL requests. Oh course, being on this side of the table, I still don't understand why a station cannot sign a ppc or e mail back for a QSL, if nothing else, but even those are not easy to get in some cases. Anyway, my 2 cents on the subject. But to everyone, be happy with any QSL you receive. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
--- Bill Harms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, I would add it would be nice (not required), even if you don't try for a QSL, to send a note to the station thanking them for taking the time to do something for DXers that they did not have to do. I agree. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id [EMAIL PROTECTED] FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Hammarlund HQ-150 4' FET air core loop Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Hi Konnie, I think the issue here is not whether stations who test are asked to QSL, but what actually constitutes a QSL. Speaking from experience and many conversations with previous BTCs Les and J.D., I can testify to the fact that it is becoming more and more difficult to get stations and CE's (whether hams or not) to even consider doing a test. We are lucky to get a 10 percent response on our requests for tests, and even fewer of those are affirmatives. When I contact a station, part of the request is always a clear explanation that DXers who send reception reports are going to expect to hear back from the station with a verification of their reception if their report is correct. The brochure that goes along in each test request package also includes an explanation of QSLing and makes it clear that DXers have that expectation in response to a reception report. As I said before, I don't think it is appropriate - especially since the station is generally doing us a BIG favor by conducting the test - to insist that their responses to DXers be done jot and tittle the way we want. Again, this is not an area where I believe a major education program for broadcasters is appropriate. Yes, I am a ham, and on those rare occasions when I get a request for a QSL, I do so 100 percent. I cant say the same for all other hams. Sometimes I get stiffed there too, just as I do by broadcasters. Your comparison between ham QSLing and BCB QSLing seems a little flawed to me, since for hams, it should be an integral part of the hobby with (theoretically) two willing participants, while for BCB QSLing it is a very one-sided and tangential aspect, with broadcasters having a very limited - if any - interest in QSLing. All tests that we have scheduled this season have agreed to respond directly to DXers with verifications. If the quality of the QSL or verie is not up to your standards Konnie, I apologize. I would invite you to contact any stations which you feel have not provided the kind of response you want and work it out between the two of you. But if you choose to do this, please be polite and don't alienate the station personnel from future DXers by making inappropriate demands. As for no response at all, if you run into this problem, I will be more than happy to go to bat and try to explain to the person at the station just how important a QSL is, and do whatever is necessary to illicit their cooperation. I've already done this for a few tests from years past. OK - I hope this horse is officially dead, since my arm is getting tired beating it. However, if other DXers want to chime in with their opinions, I'm always happy to listen and learn. 73s, Jim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Konnie Rychalsky Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:41 PM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking? Most QSLs I receive from stations are from those who were or currently are Ham radio operators. I will remain gratefull with a QSL. I include a friendly letter with my reports showing examples of QSLs, even on an idea for a quick make-shift QSL if the station doesn't have one [and I'll add I've received phonecalls in return stating they were interested.] Maybe if you'll ask, you'll be surprised on the answer, and therefore help the station and the hobby. The reason for hearing a distant station is to have your reception confirmed, as proof, and that is done via a QSL card. Somehow, coordinating a test and not checking into a QSL response just falls short to the hobby that began long before you or I were even born. To settle for less, doesn't help the hobby. Personally, anything less is just that, something less. I believe your response has lead me to question if it is worth staying up, or getting up, to listen to a test anymore. Who's suppossed to share the DX QSL with the station, if the test coordinator doesn't? Don't you think that if a station will not issue a QSL, we should know that ahead of time? I cannot find your explanation to ask, or educate
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Jim: Very very well said. I've had good luck arranging DX Test, due in part to the fact that the folks I've asked are all friend sof mnie, and as a broadcaster, I know exactly how to approach the situation. Like i said, I DX for fun now.. and I'll only usually request a QSL if it's reception that is completely unexpected or out of the ordinary. I think we DX'ers need to be happy with what the stations do for us by simply running the DX tests well outside of normal business hous, staying up late and not being compensated for it... imagine running a DX test for 2 hours, then going to bed and have to be up 5 hours later? I did that once... and I didn't have 5 hours, I had to get up in 3 1/2 hours. People need to understanding running a radio station is NOT nearly as easy, stress free and a walk in the park as they may think. I speak from expierience, as a broadcaster. Count a DX test as a favor.. and anything beyond that, QSL or whateveras icing on an already sweet cake. Things will work out better that way Paul Walker On Nov 23, 2007 8:38 AM, Jim Pogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Konnie, I think the issue here is not whether stations who test are asked to QSL, but what actually constitutes a QSL. Speaking from experience and many conversations with previous BTCs Les and J.D., I can testify to the fact that it is becoming more and more difficult to get stations and CE's (whether hams or not) to even consider doing a test. We are lucky to get a 10 percent response on our requests for tests, and even fewer of those are affirmatives. When I contact a station, part of the request is always a clear explanation that DXers who send reception reports are going to expect to hear back from the station with a verification of their reception if their report is correct. The brochure that goes along in each test request package also includes an explanation of QSLing and makes it clear that DXers have that expectation in response to a reception report. As I said before, I don't think it is appropriate - especially since the station is generally doing us a BIG favor by conducting the test - to insist that their responses to DXers be done jot and tittle the way we want. Again, this is not an area where I believe a major education program for broadcasters is appropriate. Yes, I am a ham, and on those rare occasions when I get a request for a QSL, I do so 100 percent. I can't say the same for all other hams. Sometimes I get stiffed there too, just as I do by broadcasters. Your comparison between ham QSLing and BCB QSLing seems a little flawed to me, since for hams, it should be an integral part of the hobby with (theoretically) two willing participants, while for BCB QSLing it is a very one-sided and tangential aspect, with broadcasters having a very limited - if any - interest in QSLing. All tests that we have scheduled this season have agreed to respond directly to DXers with verifications. If the quality of the QSL or verie is not up to your standards Konnie, I apologize. I would invite you to contact any stations which you feel have not provided the kind of response you want and work it out between the two of you. But if you choose to do this, please be polite and don't alienate the station personnel from future DXers by making inappropriate demands. As for no response at all, if you run into this problem, I will be more than happy to go to bat and try to explain to the person at the station just how important a QSL is, and do whatever is necessary to illicit their cooperation. I've already done this for a few tests from years past. OK - I hope this horse is officially dead, since my arm is getting tired beating it. However, if other DXers want to chime in with their opinions, I'm always happy to listen and learn. 73s, Jim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Konnie Rychalsky Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:41 PM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
--- Konnie Rychalsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? Well, here we go again! I have to once again question the notion that nothing is anything without a QSL. We appear to have two hobbies here - DX'ing and QSL'ing where once there was one. Even when postage rates were reasonable and QSL rates were high, there were always stations which didn't respond after follow-ups. I don't think I ever sent a station more than 3 follow-ups, and that was only once - for reception of KFQD-AK in Syracuse NY in 1966. I think many of us reached a point back then when we would not keep sending fruitless follow-ups, potentially annoying station personnel and wasting our time and money. Today, the costs of QSL'ing are higher and the returns are poor. Many on these lists consider their recording as their QSL because of that. I am one of those unless a DX TEST clearly indicate QSL's will be provided, and even that isn't a certainty, considering the recent past record - WISN-1130/WOKY-920, WRCG-1420 to name a few. People move on and the chain is broken. So, to answer Konnie's question, there are a lot of us who would listen ( whether live or by remote automated unattended recording ) for tests and be happen with them absent a QSL. I am always happy to add a new station to my log. Others may disagree, as Konnie already has, and I know some other do, and that's fine, but I don't believe it is right for those who believe that the QSL is the only object of this hobby to impose that belief on the rest of us who don't share it. Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id [EMAIL PROTECTED] FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Hammarlund HQ-150 4' FET air core loop Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Russ, I would add it would be nice (not required), even if you don't try for a QSL, to send a note to the station thanking them for taking the time to do something for DXers that they did not have to do. Bill Russ Edmunds wrote: --- Konnie Rychalsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? -- Bill Harms Elkridge, Maryland Check out the Spokane Radio History Pages http://spokaneradio.philcobill.com and the Spokane Radio Tower Pages http://spokanetowers.philcobill.com ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
--- Patrick Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, after the turn of the century, things changed very quickly, almost over-night. The attitude toiwards the DXer changed very much. Some fly in the ointment changed all that. Corporate ownership may have had some effect, but hey, there were corporations that owned stations in the 80s 90s and the reply rate was still good. But, I just saw an attitude change, where the station did not have that interest in reports. When talking to them, they were generally polite, but I did not hear that interest in their voices. Something changed, rude reports from DXers? Who knows? I have heard stories along those lines, but there have always been those. *** I think several things happened, including all of the above. Add in relaxed FCC requirements for engineers, for instance. The bottom line is that like most other industries, there are fewer people doing the same or mor work. With greater ownership of more stations by the huge corporations, this is accentuated, and along with that goes the attitude. I also think demands by DX'ers for QSL's but more significantly complaints by other DX'ers about perceived illegal operations, often without any factual basis nor any tolerance for human error or automation failures have increased significantly over the past 8-10 years. And whether DX'ers on these lists like it or not, there are industry people monitoring, reading and sharing what they see, and it isn't always pretty. If it's the attitudes of some number of people in the industry towards DX'ers that's killing the hobby, then we have to accept some portion of the responsibility for that. We'd all be a lot better off without the repeated complaints on the lists about lack of QSL's, lack of tests, when we think stations running higher power than they should be or operating when they shouldn't be. Think about it, folks ! Russ Edmunds Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ) [15 mi NNW of Philadelphia] 40:08:45N; 75:16:04W, Grid FN20id [EMAIL PROTECTED] FM: Yamaha T-80 Onkyo T-450RDS w/ APS9B @15' AM: Hammarlund HQ-150 4' FET air core loop Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Martin, Very well written. I could not had said it better. We take what we can get and another way to say it. Like today, I got a nice surprise with a nice letter on station letterhead from KMER-940-Kemmerer WY, running 150w at night. I am very pleased with that. Not only because of the low power, but mainly I got a reply! 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
Re: [IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Russ, Again, very good comments. You know at times I wish the internet, e mail, etc. was never invented. There is a lot of good but a lot of negative things like you mentioned. I KNOW for a fact that several engineers read our postings. I have had them forwarded to me more than once. 73, Patrick Patrick Martin KAVT Reception Manager ___ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com
[IRCA] Poor Excuses kill this hobby
Jim, With all due respect, you are a ham radio operator, and the reference at the bottom of your recent post ( QRZ.com ) does an excellent job at defining what a QSL is, unless you have redefined it. I in no way suggested that you insist upon the testing-station that you educate them, but come on now you ARE a ham radio operator and wouldn't it help to a) when you ask a station to run a test, ask them if they have a QSL available, b) if not, offer one, and c) it would be nice to let us know? Ham radio operators know what QSLs are, and no news to you I'm sure. Aren't you of all people suppossed to encourage the hobby of radio? Doesn't Ham radio include QSLs??? To everyone on this list, are you implying that even if you do coordinate a DX test, it's possible a QSL will not be issued? If indeed possible, isn't it worth asking? Most QSLs I receive from stations are from those who were or currently are Ham radio operators. I will remain gratefull with a QSL. I include a friendly letter with my reports showing examples of QSLs, even on an idea for a quick make-shift QSL if the station doesn't have one [and I'll add I've received phonecalls in return stating they were interested.] Maybe if you'll ask, you'll be surprised on the answer, and therefore help the station and the hobby. The reason for hearing a distant station is to have your reception confirmed, as proof, and that is done via a QSL card. Somehow, coordinating a test and not checking into a QSL response just falls short to the hobby that began long before you or I were even born. To settle for less, doesn't help the hobby. Personally, anything less is just that, something less. I believe your response has lead me to question if it is worth staying up, or getting up, to listen to a test anymore. Who's suppossed to share the DX QSL with the station, if the test coordinator doesn't? Don't you think that if a station will not issue a QSL, we should know that ahead of time? I cannot find your explanation to ask, or educate, adequatly helps the hobby. A fish is a fish, a worm is a worm, and a QSL is a QSL. As for these days one of the problems of receiving less than a QSL just may be found in your response. Maybe instead of a stamp, each DXer can send in a dollar, and with the $10 - $20, you can supply the station with a gift...uh, QSL cards!! about 100 worth. You will have left the hobby a better place than you found it. Then, dxers will be gratefull to you and the IRCA for making a difference. What is the IRCA for anyway? And coming from a Ham radio operator God, that was simple. People, stop settling for less, and poor excuses. Get involved in your hobby! Stop looking for what you can get, and add selfishly to a raggetty old shoe box full of mold and mildew stuck in a closet that won't see light for another ten years... and starting looking on how to give to others, including an education on what a QSL really is, and supply them. There needs to be a serious attitude shift here. That should start the keyboards clicking, eh? Konnie SW CT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: irca@hard-core-dx.com Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:31:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [IRCA] QSL from WIGG 1420 for DX TEST Folks, I gotta say, any time you get a response from a station these days and the intent is to verify your reception, you need to be grateful. I am certain that this was the intent by WIGG. The days of insisting upon a full data verification with date, time, frequency, power, etc., and an unambiguous your reception is verified statement or the like are gone. In a word, no, not all stations are aware of what constitutes what we DXers would categorize as a full data QSL. And I'm not about to try and launch an education program. Again, we are lucky to get the test and a snail-mail response to our reception reports at all. Jim Pogue KH2AR/WPE9HLJ/KG6DX1A Memphis, Tennessee USA NRD-535, R-390A, ICF-2010 Wellbrook LA5030 loop, PAØRDT mini-whip, attic longwire, Quantum phaser QRZ.com/KH2AR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Konnie Rychalsky Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 7:45 PM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] QSL from WIGG 1420 for DX TEST I thought the definition of a QSL confirms a date? Isn't this instead a Verie? On another note, aren't the stations that run these DX tests aware of QSL response? Konnie SW CT Yesterday received a hand written letter with business card from WIGG 1420khz for DX Test on Nov 4th., signed by Paul Turner. No date was mentioned. _ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
