Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy.
I thought I would clarify because my lost post sounded rather jerkish. (sorry). I am not disagreeing that code stability is not a higher priority. What my point is, is that the concept of facilitating updates that minimize the downtime of an application is not flawed. I see your point in that the added complexity makes software stability harder to achieve, but that is an implementation issue (our job to make sure it works well). Also, there are also ways to build a good methodology into the software. For example, there is no real reason why pulling a node out of a load blancer pool, and deploying a new application has to be two manual steps. Although, it could be argued that deploying to every system at the same time is risky, so in that case you could design a tool that would allow the administrator to step the deployment process through each node. In this way they can verify that everything is still ok after each update. This type of management is very reliable and very predictable, because there is still some human intervention. -Jason > -Original Message- > From: Jason T. Greene > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:40 PM > To: Remy Maucherat; Sacha Labourey; Robb Greathouse; Stan Silvert; Ryan > Campbell; 'JBoss.org development list'; Scott M Stark > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Remy Maucherat > > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:00 PM > > To: Sacha Labourey; Robb Greathouse; Stan Silvert; Ryan Campbell; > > 'JBoss.org development list'; Scott M Stark > > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > > > > -snip- > > > Maybe these techniques will be implemented eventually, but given the > > target users need mature stuff, it's going to take a long time overall. > > It's quite simple: users who want to use a cluster usually want the best > > quality of service, while at the same time generic automagical features > > like these ones add complexity and unpredictability. If you'd like, you > > can try and sell this sort of deployment methodology to the DGI, for > > example ;) > > > > There are some issues at the moment in mod_jk about quality of service, > > that are a technical prerequisite to all of the fancy marketing friendly > > features, so we're going to start there. > > There are ways to do this in a very predictable manner. > > Although, I would be curious to hear your solution for achieving 5 9's of > uptime while still allowing updates. > > -Jason Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ JBoss-Development mailing list JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy.
> -Original Message- > From: Remy Maucherat > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:00 PM > To: Sacha Labourey; Robb Greathouse; Stan Silvert; Ryan Campbell; > 'JBoss.org development list'; Scott M Stark > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > -snip- > Maybe these techniques will be implemented eventually, but given the > target users need mature stuff, it's going to take a long time overall. > It's quite simple: users who want to use a cluster usually want the best > quality of service, while at the same time generic automagical features > like these ones add complexity and unpredictability. If you'd like, you > can try and sell this sort of deployment methodology to the DGI, for > example ;) > > There are some issues at the moment in mod_jk about quality of service, > that are a technical prerequisite to all of the fancy marketing friendly > features, so we're going to start there. There are ways to do this in a very predictable manner. Although, I would be curious to hear your solution for achieving 5 9's of uptime while still allowing updates. -Jason Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ JBoss-Development mailing list JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy.
How is this a gimmick? It's semantically equivalent to an lb node status monitor. Traffic should not be sent to nodes that aren't up. -Jason > -Original Message- > From: Remy Maucherat > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:52 AM > To: Sacha Labourey; Robb Greathouse; Stan Silvert; Ryan Campbell; > 'JBoss.org development list'; Scott M Stark > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > > > Better integration between Apache and tomcat through Mod_jk is something > > you need to work on with Mladen: there is huge value in having the web > > container communicate status information back to the web server (server > > goes down, shutdown cluster, extend cluster size, new nodes, etc.) > > > > We need to start working on these end-to-end features: restarting an > > application should be a smooth action for the user: if we have multiple > > nodes the Apache LB should be made aware of that and use a different > node > > in the meantime. > > > > Mladen and Rémy, you should start adding JIRA tasks for this. > > Sure, I have no problem with that. > > I told you it's a bad idea: at best this capability is a useless gimmick. > Beyond that, you can decide on the direction you want to follow and we'll > (try to) implement it (and hopefully it will bring in more sales :) ). > > Rémy Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ JBoss-Development mailing list JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy.
[Not really responding to this but I lost the first messages] I'd like to see a mode where during redeployment the server waits for the single deployment to reappear before processing the request. Even a really large deployment usually takes less than 10 seconds, so the user would never have to see any sort of outage or HTTP error and no reconfiguring of the load balancer would be necessary. Obviously, you would need to have some sort of time-out. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ JBoss-Development mailing list JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy.
I disagree. Why should a user be expected to restart the ENTIRE application server, when only a single deployment is changing? There are ways to do this that minimizes outage. Typically you do manual rolling update across all nodes. This process though can be somewhat of a pain in the ass (take one node out of the lb, add another), which is why I have always thought we should offer an automated tool for this. Most modern load balancers have an API for this kind of thing. -Jason > -Original Message- > From: Remy Maucherat > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:37 AM > To: Robb Greathouse; Sacha Labourey; Stan Silvert; Ryan Campbell; > 'JBoss.org development list'; Scott M Stark > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > > > Oh, thanks for clarification. > > > > When a app starts undeployment there are two possible cases. 1) It is > > being redeployed, and should return a 500 plus and 2) It is being > > undeployed for good and should return a 404. > > > > Maybe what is required is a configurable retry period. After a app is > > undeployed it could wait a defined number of seconds to see if it comes > > back. If it does not comeback after 5 or 10 seconds then Tomcat could > > conclude it was undeployed. Otherwise it would retry the request on the > > same machine without failover. > > There's an interface on mod_jk to allow configuring workers "manually" > when you expect to do maintenance. I'm not he one coding mod_jk, so if > they want to do it and code something automagical, they can ;) > > Similarly, while autodeployment is cool in development or when doing pre > production testing, I don't think it is realistic to use it in real > production environments. > > Rémy Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ JBoss-Development mailing list JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy.
Only on shutdown of the server. Its independent of tomcat5/6. > -Original Message- > From: Sacha Labourey > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:30 AM > To: Robb Greathouse; Stan Silvert; Ryan Campbell; 'JBoss.org > development list'; Scott M Stark > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > > That is a good point and I thought this had been solved some > time ago? > > > -Original Message- > > From: Robb Greathouse > > Sent: mercredi, 28. juin 2006 16:14 > > To: Stan Silvert; Ryan Campbell; 'JBoss.org development > list'; Scott M > > Stark > > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 redeploy. > > > > Will Tomcat 6 have better integration with JBoss and Apache? > > I've seen a recurring problem with Tomcat 5 returning 404's during > > redeployment. If it returned a 500 plus error it would > force apache > > to fail-over. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Stan Silvert > > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:04 AM > > To: Ryan Campbell; 'JBoss.org development list'; Scott M Stark > > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 integrated > > > > > > > > So, head should only be compilable with a 1.5 jdk. > > > > > > However, some modules will still enforce source & target > at 1.4, so > > > that we can back merge fixes to the jboss4 tree. > > > > > > Correct? > > > > > > > What's the latest on this? The JSF integration code under > the Tomcat > > module needs JDK 1.5 to compile. I can change it to be > 1.4-compatible > > if I have to. > > > > Stan Silvert > > JBoss, a division of RedHat > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Ryan Campbell > > > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:16 PM > > > To: JBoss.org development list; Scott M Stark > > > Cc: The Core; Bill Burke > > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 integrated > > > > > > So, head should only be compilable with a 1.5 jdk. > > > > > > However, some modules will still enforce source & target > at 1.4, so > > > that we can back merge fixes to the jboss4 tree. > > > > > > Correct? > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:jboss- > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Anil Saldhana > > > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:10 AM > > > To: Scott M Stark > > > Cc: JBoss.org development list; The Core; Bill Burke > > > Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 integrated > > > > > > Ruel is looking into this. The issue is that the Tomcat jars need > > > JDK5 for compilation and the way the current HEAD build is > > setup, we > > > may have some issues. > > > > > > Scott M Stark wrote: > > > > The tomcat module needs jdk5, not all of head. jboss5 > > will require a > > > > jdk5 runtime. > > > > > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- > > > >> From: Anil Saldhana > > > >> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:06 AM > > > >> To: JBoss.org development list > > > >> Cc: Bill Burke; The Core > > > >> Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] Tomcat 6 integrated > > > >> > > > >> Hi Scott, > > > >> with regard to the current TC6 integration that Bill > > undertook > > > >> in HEAD: > > > >>http://jira.jboss.com/jira/browse/JBAS-3330 > > > >> > > > >> http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=85382 > > > >> > > > >> This has placed a need for JDK5 in HEAD as TC6 needs it. > > > >> > > > >> You will need to make a decision to make HEAD requiring JDK5. > > > >> > > > >> Regards, > > > >> Anil > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web > > services, security? > > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to > > make your job > > > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on > > > Apache Geronimo > > > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=1216 > > > 42 ___ > > > JBoss-Development mailing list > > > JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ JBoss-Development mailing list JBoss-Development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
