RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
There is no server greater than JBOSS. From: "Eric J Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:07:36 -0500 I suspect that by now ed no longer is reading this mailing list. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rod Macpherson Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time I personally welcome any rational opinion and in particular negative ones since there is a cheerleading bias and gang mentality that often creeps in to mailing lists and newsgroups. That JBoss is not ready for prime time based on your observations of this mailing list is a non sequitur. Having personally used several of the products you mentioned, there is an equal or greater number of bugs on other newsgroups and mailing lists for other products. This mailing list is second to none in terms of the quality and quantity of information on a given topic. Compared to the support we got from two other products, the help we received here was an order of magnitude better. If you are acquiring technology based on the number of bugs on a mailing list then be prepared to use products that are dead or dying since that's where you metric will score highest:) -Original Message- From: Ed Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. Just my opinion. Ed Brown _ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
I suspect that by now ed no longer is reading this mailing list. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rod Macpherson Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time I personally welcome any rational opinion and in particular negative ones since there is a cheerleading bias and gang mentality that often creeps in to mailing lists and newsgroups. That JBoss is not ready for prime time based on your observations of this mailing list is a non sequitur. Having personally used several of the products you mentioned, there is an equal or greater number of bugs on other newsgroups and mailing lists for other products. This mailing list is second to none in terms of the quality and quantity of information on a given topic. Compared to the support we got from two other products, the help we received here was an order of magnitude better. If you are acquiring technology based on the number of bugs on a mailing list then be prepared to use products that are dead or dying since that's where you metric will score highest:) -Original Message- From: Ed Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. Just my opinion. Ed Brown _ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
I personally welcome any rational opinion and in particular negative ones since there is a cheerleading bias and gang mentality that often creeps in to mailing lists and newsgroups. That JBoss is not ready for prime time based on your observations of this mailing list is a non sequitur. Having personally used several of the products you mentioned, there is an equal or greater number of bugs on other newsgroups and mailing lists for other products. This mailing list is second to none in terms of the quality and quantity of information on a given topic. Compared to the support we got from two other products, the help we received here was an order of magnitude better. If you are acquiring technology based on the number of bugs on a mailing list then be prepared to use products that are dead or dying since that's where you metric will score highest:) -Original Message- From: Ed Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. Just my opinion. Ed Brown _ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: AW: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 01:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm doing this work on my limited spare time. If I had the time to > contribute, I would. As it stands, I don't see JBoss as being a > production ready tool. If nothing else, you're wrong about this. We're successfully using it in production and it runs like a charm. Sure, it has its quirks, but what doesn't? Have you ever had to work with Oracle? I have also trained people on J2EE using JBoss. They are now using it in production where they work. If it wasn't for JBoss we probably wouldn't even be using J2EE. We might not even use Java. PHP would look a lot more attractive if you had to pay a lot of money to the big boys for J2EE. Personally, I don't think that a J2EE container is useful enough to be worth what many vendors expect you to pay for one. It can save you a lot of time, but that isn't a solution in itself. Despite comments that have been made by Sun in the past, JBoss (and its other free/low-cost friends) has significantly raised the profile of J2EE. I for one am deeply grateful for the great work being done by the JBoss group, the Jetty team, the Postgres team and the Apache foundation. They are giving the world a realistic alternative to the commercial crapware that is out there. -- Peter Beck BEng (hons) MIEE - Managing Director, Electrostrata Ltd. http://www.electrostrata.com --+-+-- Experts in e-business and e-commerce --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: AW: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Your opinion, Ed. There are plenty of us who use JBoss for production applications, but it helps if you appreciate the product and the community, which includes some of the best developers in the world, and are willing to invest the time it takes to scale the ever expanding learning curve. > > I don't see JBoss as being a production ready tool. > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: AW: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
You've said that many times; you're starting to sound like a broken record. Everyone has a right to their opinion, however the jboss-USER list is a place for USERS of jboss to voice theirs. Go set up a NOT-jboss-user list and voice your opinion there. If you're not going to contribute, and especially if you're not going to even use it, then get off this list. I'm surprised the list owners haven't booted you off already. Bet of luck to you with your $XX,XXX bills, David Mensaje citado por [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > ...If I had the time to > contribute, I would. As it stands, I don't see JBoss as being a production > ready tool... --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: AW: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Quoting "Jung , Dr. Christoph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > >Von: Ed Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Gesendet: Samstag, 29. März 2003 03:59 > >An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Betreff: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > >Lastly, I gave up on using the embedded version of Axis with JBoss. I found > it odd that I had to > >compile the source just to get it working when everything else worked "out > of the box." And then > >getting to the Axis console was problematic. > > Now that is the point where I have to stand up. Where was your bug report? > Where was your contribution in the form of feature requests, fixes, faq > points such that other users of jboss (like you know refrain to be one of > those) who do not like hot-deployment can access the axis console directly? > I didn´t even know your name until this ugly posting. You consider it ugly, I consider it facts. I asked on this list why Axis wasn't working and I got nothing. I went to the JBoss forums where I found out you had to get the source and recompile in order to get it working. I didn't have to do anything like that for Orion, WebSphere, the defunct Borland offering, or WebLogic. ... > I find your destructive stance of leaning back and expecting everything to > run out of the box (without compilation) extremely odd. I don't find it odd at all. I used Ant right out of the box, as I did Struts, Tomcat, Apache, JUnit > It will not work > except with open source projects sponsored by IBM and throwing a lot of > money and resources into it. Linux would have died with people like yours > (and how often have I compiled that kernel, I can tell you). > > So, my conclusion is that you are not ready for JBoss and you have not the > slightest idea of team work and psychology. I'm doing this work on my limited spare time. If I had the time to contribute, I would. As it stands, I don't see JBoss as being a production ready tool. > > CGJ > > > ### > > This message has been scanned by F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange. > For more information, connect to http://www.F-Secure.com/ > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > ___ This mail sent using ToadMail -- Web based e-mail @ ToadNet --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: AW: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Thank you Dr. Christoph, this seems to be going towards the actual crux of the conversation, and very good stand. From my standpoint, going use a non-technical example, people buying furniture... *Some people like to buy nice, warranted, expensive furniture for their home, ready to go and shipped to their house and transported in and setup. If something fails or breaks during transport, moving it in, or setting it up, they can demand a replacement or compensation. - FULL SERVICE *Others go to the local store, get something that works for them, and move it themselves and then expect nothing to go wrong until it is time to replace it, or it is asked to do more than expected. - EFFICIENCY *Then there are the people who will get unfinished/unassembled furniture at relatively low cost and put it together themselves. Maybe make their own little changes like different color/laquer, or maybe do a little woodwork or upholstry to meet their needs. - SELF SERVICE *Last, and not least, are those people that will start with paper and pen tools to design what they want, research and identify the tools and materials they need, then spend time building exactly what they want or what other people may want. - I WANT A RECLINING, MASSAGING, HEATED COUCH WITH BUILT-IN REMOTE, MINIFRIDGE, AND A CUP-HOLDER THAT WILL FIT MY BEVERAGE. It is these last people with innovations that make our world go forward, challenging ideas, making a better life for those of use who may want SELF SERVICE, EFFICIENCY, or FULL SERVICE. Open Source is unique in that it can offer tools for most, if not all these people at lower costs then elsewhere. There are FULL-SERVICE contracts using open-source software available, including JBoss if this is what you are looking for. p.s. As for the Axis comment, I think everyone that has decent technical experience realizes that the JBoss.Net/Axis project is new, unique innovation, attempting to reduce development time by making single POJO (Java Objects/Classes) that can be used both in the Java/EJB world *AND* the Web Service world through Axis, all through the same platform. This innovation takes time, insight, and support. If Jboss.net/axis is something you really want then offer time or insight or support. my two coppers, -D --- From: "Jung , Dr. Christoph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Now that is the point where I have to stand up. Where was your bug = report? Where was your contribution in the form of feature requests, fixes, faq points such that other users of jboss (like you know refrain to be one = of those) who do not like hot-deployment can access the axis console = directly? I didn=B4t even know your name until this ugly posting.=20 We are working 11 hours a day and dedicating our weekends to improve = JBoss just to get to hear "not ready for primetime" instead of "good job, but = we could improve it here and there, heres my code that points into that direction". Until I see a major part of JBoss users requesting me to = shift development focus, I will follow my own needs (the ones of my company, respectively). I find your destructive stance of leaning back and expecting everything = to run out of the box (without compilation) extremely odd. It will not = work except with open source projects sponsored by IBM and throwing a lot of money and resources into it. Linux would have died with people like = yours (and how often have I compiled that kernel, I can tell you).=20 So, my conclusion is that you are not ready for JBoss and you have not = the slightest idea of team work and psychology.=20 CGJ --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:58, Ed Brown wrote: G'day Ed, Great and thanks. That is much more useful comment. No doubt people will defend various parts of jboss, but this is good input to be going forward with. Perhaps more constructive discussion can now occur instead of the bandwidth wasting that has been going on. I was about to put in a filter on this and related subjects and I hate having to do that. brian wallis... > I'm well versed in open software. I've used quite a bit of it and will > continue to use quite a bit of it. > > Previously, I've expressed my thoughts that the JBoss JMS implementation is > not up to snuff. I'm not the only one to say so. In fact, with something I > was working on, I looked into hooking up other message providers to take > the place of JBoss' implementation. For JBoss' sake, I hope the deal with > WebMethods will get JBoss an improved JMS implementation. But why would > WebMethods give that away for free? > > I'm not a fan of entity beans, but I have used them. I didn't find their > implementation anything to write home about. > > It was frustrating to have the format of the data source file change > between bug fix releases. I can understand changes between major revisions, > but not between bug fix releases. > > Lastly, I gave up on using the embedded version of Axis with JBoss. I found > it odd that I had to compile the source just to get it working when > everything else worked "out of the box." And then getting to the Axis > console was problematic. > > JBoss is not ready for prime time. As a reference implementation, it's > fine. I could never justify JBoss for use in a commerical setting where > customers are being serviced. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: ValueWeb: Dedicated Hosting for just $79/mo with 500 GB of bandwidth! No other company gives more support or power for your dedicated server http://click.atdmt.com/AFF/go/sdnxxaff00300020aff/direct/01/ ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
AW: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >Von: Ed Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Gesendet: Samstag, 29. März 2003 03:59 >An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Betreff: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time >Lastly, I gave up on using the embedded version of Axis with JBoss. I found it odd that I had to >compile the source just to get it working when everything else worked "out of the box." And then >getting to the Axis console was problematic. Now that is the point where I have to stand up. Where was your bug report? Where was your contribution in the form of feature requests, fixes, faq points such that other users of jboss (like you know refrain to be one of those) who do not like hot-deployment can access the axis console directly? I didn´t even know your name until this ugly posting. We are working 11 hours a day and dedicating our weekends to improve JBoss just to get to hear "not ready for primetime" instead of "good job, but we could improve it here and there, heres my code that points into that direction". Until I see a major part of JBoss users requesting me to shift development focus, I will follow my own needs (the ones of my company, respectively). I find your destructive stance of leaning back and expecting everything to run out of the box (without compilation) extremely odd. It will not work except with open source projects sponsored by IBM and throwing a lot of money and resources into it. Linux would have died with people like yours (and how often have I compiled that kernel, I can tell you). So, my conclusion is that you are not ready for JBoss and you have not the slightest idea of team work and psychology. CGJ ### This message has been scanned by F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange. For more information, connect to http://www.F-Secure.com/ --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
I'm well versed in open software. I've used quite a bit of it and will continue to use quite a bit of it. Previously, I've expressed my thoughts that the JBoss JMS implementation is not up to snuff. I'm not the only one to say so. In fact, with something I was working on, I looked into hooking up other message providers to take the place of JBoss' implementation. For JBoss' sake, I hope the deal with WebMethods will get JBoss an improved JMS implementation. But why would WebMethods give that away for free? I'm not a fan of entity beans, but I have used them. I didn't find their implementation anything to write home about. It was frustrating to have the format of the data source file change between bug fix releases. I can understand changes between major revisions, but not between bug fix releases. Lastly, I gave up on using the embedded version of Axis with JBoss. I found it odd that I had to compile the source just to get it working when everything else worked "out of the box." And then getting to the Axis console was problematic. JBoss is not ready for prime time. As a reference implementation, it's fine. I could never justify JBoss for use in a commerical setting where customers are being serviced. Quoting "Corbin, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Instead of deriding this guy for having an opinion on JBOSS (which > should be > welcomed), why don't you explain the difference between open source > software > and commercial software. It would have saved tons of bandwidth and > maybe > not chased this guy from using JBOSS (not that any of you care > anyway...). > > Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now... > > Ed, > > One of the beauties of Open Source is its openness in the community (I > know...a little corny), especially when it comes to bug identification > and > resolution. It may appear that JBOSS is buggy due to the number of > messages > you see on this board. In fact, JBOSS is really no different than any > other > commercial software products in that it does have bugs. The differences > are > that with open source, you are kind of airing your dirty laundry by > being so > open. The benefit is HUGE as some have mentioned. In the open source > community, bugs get identified publicly (forums like this) and resolved > VERY > quickly which leads to a more stable offering in the short term. On > the > other hand, commercial software bug identification and resolution gets > bogged down by many things (schedules, politics, etc.) and you never > know if > and when your bug will ever get fixed. The length of time between a > bug > identification and a bug fix is much greater with commercial software. > > Cheers, > > J.D. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 7:38 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > > Quoting Sacha Labourey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > So don't use it. > > > > I'm no longer using it. > > > > Ed Brown > > So get the hell off the list. It *is* the 'jboss-user' list. > > Michael > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > This electronic message transmission contains information from the > Company that may be proprietary, confidential and/or privileged. > The information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or > entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be > aware that any disclosure, copying or distribution or use of the > contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received > this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender > immediately by replying to the address listed in the "From:" field. > > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > Ed Brown _
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
if you are no longer using it please stop cluttering this mailing list. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Brown > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:04 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > > > Quoting Sacha Labourey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > So don't use it. > > I'm no longer using it. > > > > Ed Brown > > > _ > This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? > http://www.toadmail.com > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Instead of deriding this guy for having an opinion on JBOSS (which should be welcomed), why don't you explain the difference between open source software and commercial software. It would have saved tons of bandwidth and maybe not chased this guy from using JBOSS (not that any of you care anyway...). Anyway, I'm off my soapbox now... Ed, One of the beauties of Open Source is its openness in the community (I know...a little corny), especially when it comes to bug identification and resolution. It may appear that JBOSS is buggy due to the number of messages you see on this board. In fact, JBOSS is really no different than any other commercial software products in that it does have bugs. The differences are that with open source, you are kind of airing your dirty laundry by being so open. The benefit is HUGE as some have mentioned. In the open source community, bugs get identified publicly (forums like this) and resolved VERY quickly which leads to a more stable offering in the short term. On the other hand, commercial software bug identification and resolution gets bogged down by many things (schedules, politics, etc.) and you never know if and when your bug will ever get fixed. The length of time between a bug identification and a bug fix is much greater with commercial software. Cheers, J.D. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 7:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > Quoting Sacha Labourey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > So don't use it. > > I'm no longer using it. > > Ed Brown So get the hell off the list. It *is* the 'jboss-user' list. Michael --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user This electronic message transmission contains information from the Company that may be proprietary, confidential and/or privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying or distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to the address listed in the "From:" field. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
> Quoting Sacha Labourey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > So don't use it. > > I'm no longer using it. > > Ed Brown So get the hell off the list. It *is* the 'jboss-user' list. Michael --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Your loss IMHO. The fact is that all software has bugs (c.f. the reports of a bug in the Patriot missile software this morning). [Please let's exclude provable languages from this conversation as they don't seem to be used in the real world.] You could be like NASA, of course, and take so long testing and proving software/hardware components that last time I heard they were still using the 6502 as the processor for some of their components. So - the mature attitude is to accept that any software that is developed at a reasonable pace will have some bugs. Once you've done that, you realise that the important things are how easy it is to find out about exisiting bugs and how quickly those bug reports are responded to. The likes of JBoss tend to be very open and public about bugs, whereas other companies it is sometimes like getting blood out of a stone just to get them to admit it. This is to their advantage. /david BTW: Were you actually using JBoss in the past? Ed Brown wrote: Quoting Sacha Labourey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: So don't use it. I'm no longer using it. Ed Brown _ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Quoting Sacha Labourey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > So don't use it. I'm no longer using it. Ed Brown _ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Ed, Thanks for your insightful comments. All of us who run JBoss with zero problems will consider your well thought out conclusion the next time we consider paying $50k for a buggy app server. I am looking forward to the next careful evaluation you make. Just a little tip though; Next time it would be much easier and less time consuming to look at the bug list for a given project, rather than to hang out on the mail list. Jboss has a bug list: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=22866&atid=376685 And seriously, please email me your next evaluation at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! -James BTW: Sorry guys, I just couldn't resist, and I haven't had coffee yet. On Wed, 2003-03-26 at 20:02, Ed Brown wrote: > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also posted > here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are just > too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown > > > _ > This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? > http://www.toadmail.com > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
ignorance is bliss... -Original Message- From: Rob Finneran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 2:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time Funny! - Original Message - From: "Ian Duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ed Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time On Wednesday 26 March 2003 07:02 pm, Ed Brown wrote: > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also > posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. > There are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown +--+ | PLEASE | | DO NOT | | FEED THE | | TROLLS | +--+ | | | | .\|.||/.. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Funny! - Original Message - From: "Ian Duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ed Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time On Wednesday 26 March 2003 07:02 pm, Ed Brown wrote: > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also > posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There > are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown +--+ | PLEASE | | DO NOT | | FEED THE | | TROLLS | +--+ | | | | .\|.||/.. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
So don't use it. Thank you for your valuable feedback. Cheers, Sacha > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Brown > Sent: jeudi, 27. mars 2003 04:02 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > > > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. > Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime > time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown > > > __ > ___ > This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want > to go fast? > http://www.toadmail.com > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
On Wednesday 26 March 2003 07:02 pm, Ed Brown wrote: > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also > posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There > are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown +--+ | PLEASE | | DO NOT | | FEED THE | | TROLLS | +--+ | | | | .\|.||/.. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Yer funny. -Neal On Wednesday 26 March 2003 10:02 pm, Ed Brown wrote: > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, > I've also posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. > There are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Huh? First off, why would you post here? I mean, no offense, but who asked you? All app servers have bugs. The difference here is that the vendor (JBoss community) doesn't try to pretend they don't exist. They are discussed and fixed... Oh... and what's this? Oh... it's a bugfix HOURS after the bug was discovered!!! JBoss is USED in "primetime" scenarios in many companies, including mine. We run mission critical apps on JBoss and we wouldn't be able to survive without it. Your message is basically FUD. > From: Ed Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:02:13 -0500 (EST) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also > posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are > just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Ok, thanks. Your detailed analysis will be reviewed when more time allows. > -Original Message- > From: Ed Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:02 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > > > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. > Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime > time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown > > > __ > ___ > This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want > to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/j> boss-user > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
Wow, thanks Ed for this informative message. I guess I'll dump JBoss right now. If you have anymore helpful tips, don't hold back. John - Original Message - From: "Ed Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: [JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time > > I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. > > I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. > > Just my opinion. > > Ed Brown > > > _ > This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? > http://www.toadmail.com > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! > NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! > http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en > ___ > JBoss-user mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
[JBoss-user] JBoss: Not Ready For Prime Time
I've been monitoring this email list for some time. Occasionally, I've also posted here to get information. I've come to the conclusion that JBoss is not ready for prime time. There are just too many bugs with the app server. Just my opinion. Ed Brown _ This mail sent via toadmail.com, web e-mail @ ToadNet - want to go fast? http://www.toadmail.com --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The Definitive IT and Networking Event. Be There! NetWorld+Interop Las Vegas 2003 -- Register today! http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?keyn0001en ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
