RE: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[travis]

The MSN way doesn't work that well though because you both have to be online at the 
same time.  Does anyone know how ICQ does this?  That seems like the most reliable 
system.

Travis

 Original Message 
From: Max Metral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-05-03 14:01:56.0
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

The way MSN does it is much lighter weight in general (but provides less
functionality).  Basically if an ack isn't received within a timeout, the
client is in charge of alerting the user that something went wrong (which it
does by putting a red message in the IM window saying the message *may* not
have been received).  It may be doing a retry under the covers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


So let me get this straight,

I send a message, if the recipient receives a message, he responds saying
that the message was received right?  And if there was no response, the
sender client would save the message and try again?

Now this brings me to another question, does the server store any messages
at any time?  Like if I send a message to a user that is offline, can the
server store that message and send it when that user goes online (like ICQ
or e-mail even)?

Travis

 Original Message 
From: temas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-05-03 10:52:24.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could
sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with
an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging,
but
> the lack of reliability.   
> 
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> 
> Travis 
> 
>  Original Message  
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing /
guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > What's the whole setup? 
> > 
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> > 
> > --temas 
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > 
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > > 
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > Travis Reeder 
> > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev maili

[JDEV] Jabber DevZone News - Jabber Foundation

[Jabber DevZone]

Jabber Foundation

The following was posted by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via the Jabber DevZone web site 
(http://dev.jabber.org/):

Jabber.org and Jabber.com are beginning the process of creating the
Jabber Foundation.  Included below are some rough ideas on how this
foundation might be organized and
it's role in the Jabber community.

The role we would like the foundation to play is one that serves this
community.  There have been many challenges lately that we've all
faced as the community grows and
development accelerates, and confusion about the roles that different
entities have within the community.  There are also new participants
that would like to be involved in
Jabber but it isn't clear how to help or where to start.  These are
issues that we hope the foundation can work towards, as well as
providing better tools and forums to the
Jabber development community.

Very quickly I put together some high level ideas of what the
foundation can do and categorized it into four Ds:


Define
Specifications for the existing protocols for clients, servers, and
services
New extensions and additions to the protocols
Feature sets and testing suites
Describe
Architecture overviews
Development, protocol, and user documentation
Common glossary and terminology definitions
Discuss
Developer news and forums
Hosting events and gatherings
Protocol and architectural growth and extensions
Disseminate
Links to clients and client projects
Comprehensive index for servers, services, and modules
Highlight related projects and integration/interoperability efforts



The foundation will be hosted at jabber.org and is seen as simply a
growth and solidification of what the site already does.  What it will
not do is any direct
technical software development, but instead foster the community and
provide tools and forums for doing development. Also, to be clear, the
foundation will be
focusing on standardization but not in the larger IM space, just
within the Jabber community itself. Some of the first steps will be
working on solidifying the
existing protocol documentation (not changing in any way, just
clarifying poorly documented areas) and setting up an open process for
working together on
extensions and feature additions. The growth of the Jabber community
alone demands these things, and this is where the foundation can start
helping most.

Here are some of the details to be discussed:


Mission: The Jabber Foundation provides organizational and technical
assistance to the Jabber Community to help accomplish its mission of
fostering "freedom of conversation" among people, applications, and
systems regardless of medium through an open communications
framework.


Charter: The Jabber Foundation shall provide direct organizational
assistance and indirect technical assistance to the Jabber Community
in carrying out its mission.  Direct organizational assistance will
include brand management, logistical support, legal assistance, press
relations, and communication facilities.  Indirect technical
assistance will include project management, protocol specification,
standards activities, documentation support, and site development.
The Jabber Foundation will not make technical decisions for Jabber
but
will help the Jabber Community to make technical decisions more
effectively. All activities and proceedings will be openly accessible
and published.


Structure: Membership-based, not-for-profit corporation.  The Jabber
Foundation will not be registered as a nonprofit or charitable
organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. Internal Revenue
Code. This means that, for individuals within the U.S., donations to
the Jabber Foundation are not tax-deductible although corporate
donations may be considered business expense, provided the
corporation
benefits from the activities of the Jabber Foundation.


Membership: Members elected by simple majority of current members. 
Requires
the submission of a simple applicant profile to help electing members
understand
the qualifications of an applicant for membership.  The initial
membership will
be defined in the Articles of Incorporation.  No more than 15% of the
membership may come from any one organization.


Projects: The Projects help direct significant development such as
server, client, or transport development.  The Jabber Foundation
Projects are established by simple majority of the Members.


Organization: Board of Directors and Executive
Committee.  Board of Directors shall direct the management of the
affairs of the corporation.  The first Board of Directors will be
defined in the Articles of Incorporation for the corporation. 
Subsequent
Boards of Directors will be elected by a majority of the
membership.  The Executive Committee shall be appointed by the Board
of
Directors and shall manage the affairs of the company for the Board
of
Directors.


Officers: Chairman, President, Secretary, Treasurer.


Term:  One Year


Number:  Initially there will be 5 members of the Board of Directors.


Incorp

RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Gregory Graham]

Title: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?





My observation is that the server does store messages when the receiver is off-line, but at this time no feedback is given to the sender. The  event (described in events.html) could be sent by the server in such a case, allowing the sending client to give appropriate indication to the user, like ICQ does.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?



So let me get this straight,


I send a message, if the recipient receives a message, he responds saying that the message was received right?  And if there was no response, the sender client would save the message and try again?

Now this brings me to another question, does the server store any messages at any time?  Like if I send a message to a user that is offline, can the server store that message and send it when that user goes online (like ICQ or e-mail even)?

Travis


 Original Message 
From: temas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-05-03 10:52:24.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html


Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.


--temas


On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but
> the lack of reliability.   
> 
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> 
> Travis 
> 
>  Original Message  
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > What's the whole setup? 
> > 
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> > 
> > --temas 
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > 
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > > 
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > Travis Reeder 
> > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> ___ jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev


___
jdev mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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__

[JDEV] Cleaning Up The Karma code

[Harold E. Gottschalk Jr.]

I have spent the 
last day reviewing the karma code and have found that it needs some cleaning 
up.  I would like to propose the following changes and get some input from 
the more experienced jabberd developers.
 
The code in mio.c 
regarding karma does not pay attention to most of what you place in the 
 section of the jabber.xml.  Two reasons 1) a 
typical cut and paste coding mistake. 2) Then the information is not even used 
latter just the karma defaults found in lib.h.
 
Here is a diff of 
the changes I have made to mio.c so far.
 
532c532< mio_karma(new, 
KARMA_INIT, KARMA_MAX, KARMA_INC, KARMA_DEC, KARMA_PENALTY, 
KARMA_RESTORE);---> mio_karma(new, 
KARMA_INIT, KARMA_DEF_MAX, KARMA_DEF_INC, KARMA_DEF_DEC, KARMA_DEF_PENALTY, 
KARMA_DEF_RESTORE);770,777c770,777< 
KARMA_DEF_INIT   = j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/init"), 
KARMA_INIT);< KARMA_DEF_INIT   = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/max"), 
KARMA_MAX);< KARMA_DEF_INIT   = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/inc"), 
KARMA_INC);< KARMA_DEF_INIT   = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/dec"), 
KARMA_DEC);< KARMA_DEF_INIT   = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/penalty"), 
KARMA_PENALTY);< KARMA_DEF_INIT   = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/restore"), 
KARMA_RESTORE);< KARMA_DEF_RATE_T = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_attrib(xmlnode_get_tag(io, "rate"), "time"), 
5);< KARMA_DEF_RATE_P = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_attrib(xmlnode_get_tag(io, "rate"), "points"), 
25);---> KARMA_DEF_INIT    = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/init"), 
KARMA_INIT);> 
KARMA_DEF_MAX = j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, 
"karma/max"), KARMA_MAX);> 
KARMA_DEF_INC = j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, 
"karma/inc"), KARMA_INC);> 
KARMA_DEF_DEC = j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, 
"karma/dec"), KARMA_DEC);> KARMA_DEF_PENALTY = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/penalty"), 
KARMA_PENALTY);> KARMA_DEF_RESTORE = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/restore"), 
KARMA_RESTORE);> KARMA_DEF_RATE_T  = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_attrib(xmlnode_get_tag(io, "rate"), "time"), 
5);> KARMA_DEF_RATE_P  = 
j_atoi(xmlnode_get_attrib(xmlnode_get_tag(io, "rate"), "points"), 
25);782c782< 
register_beat(j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "heartbeat"), KARMA_HEARTBEAT), 
_karma_heartbeat, 
NULL);---> 
register_beat(j_atoi(xmlnode_get_tag_data(io, "karma/heartbeat"), 
KARMA_HEARTBEAT), _karma_heartbeat, 
NULL);855c855< mio_karma(new, KARMA_INIT, 
KARMA_MAX, KARMA_INC, KARMA_DEC, KARMA_PENALTY, 
KARMA_RESTORE);---> mio_karma(new, 
KARMA_INIT, KARMA_DEF_MAX, KARMA_DEF_INC, KARMA_DEF_DEC, KARMA_DEF_PENALTY, 
KARMA_DEF_RESTORE);
 
I have continued to 
leave KARMA_INIT as is fore the time being because this used in some strange way 
to indicate it is a new connection.  I will spend some more time on 
completing that transition.
 
--
 
The karma_heartbeat 
has been adjust for registration, but the default value of KARMA_HEARTBEAT is 
used in karma.c and may or may not reflect the true heartbeat setting set in 
.
 
karma.c 
66-68
    
/* only increment every KARMA_HEARTBEAT seconds */    if( ( 
k->last_update + KARMA_HEARTBEAT > cur_time ) && k->last_update 
!= 0)    return;
 
I propose adding a 
KARMA_DEF_HEARTBEAT that is set in mio.c and then used as an extern in 
karma.c.
---
 
Also client.c and 
some others use their own karma settings than those found in  and as 
state by a comment in the code that they would first like to uses the 
 setting instead of the defaults found 
lib.h.
 
What I propose is 
adding the externs that point to KARMA_DEF... in client .c 
et.al.
 
client.c 
504-509
    
/* XXX note, this isn't quite what i had in mind for 
karma 
* since it's not taking the default from  over the 
 * 
internal defaults... it should take the c2s config 
first 
* any values not there should come from  and any 
other 
* non-matched values should use the internal defaults 
*/    
mio_karma2(m, &k);
 

 
I would apprciate 
feedback on the cleanup presented.  Who would I send the updates for 
inclusion into CVS.
 

heg
 
"If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is 
no hope for it." - Albert 
Einstein

[JDEV] server 2 server connections

[Stijn Opheide]

Hi,

where in the jabber.xml file is defined to which server the s2s-service
makes a connection for user files/info? I would like to set this to
another server than users.jabber.org.
Do I also need to configure the server that keeps track of the
user-entries in a special way?

I can't find anything but this in the config file:


i'm changing the server to 'meister.kotnet.org' and then I connect with
one client (gabber under linux) on meister.kotnet.org with username
'cernunos'. I also connect to damien.kotnet.org (the server where the
jud service is ) with username 'stijn' and i'm trying to add user
'cernunos' on this client and as server i'm giving 'damien.kotnet.org'
but this doesn't work.
The server on damien.kotnet.org returns:
20010503T21:10:30: [warn] (damien.kotnet.org): xdb_file failed to open
file ./spool/damien.kotnet.org/cernunos.xml: No such file or directory

and i'm seeing cernunos as 'offline'. The server on meister.kotnet.org
is not telling me anything about a connection from damien.kotnet.org

I hope this clearafies my problem

greetings,

Stijn.

P.S. excuse me for my bad english :-)
 

-- 
Stijn Opheide
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://bifrost.kotnet.org -- http://cernunos.studentenweb.org
___
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RE: [JDEV] Newbie

[Randy Higginbotham]

I've 
got conferencing and the MSN transport working. I found during the configuration 
of the jabber.xml that formatting the tags (i.e., indenting) is a 
no-no.
 
for 
example (from my notes), the following produces an error:
 

./conference-0.4.1/conference.so

 

Maybe I had a blank space after the .so or a carriage 
return. I don't know but it 
works just fine like this:
 
./conference-0.4.1/conference.so
 
Your 
best bet is not to assume anything about the formatting of the jabber.xml file, 
use/modify the examples that comes with the services/transports, and follow 
the directions precisely.
 
Randy
 

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bill FarrellSent: 
  Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:47 PMTo: JDEV Mailing List 
  (E-mail)Subject: [JDEV] Newbie
  Hello, 
  Everyone,
   
  I'm having a good 
  experience with the basic jabberd and got a local JUD added with zero 
  problem.  That was a Good Thing.  
   
  I've since tried 
  to add a conference, and AIM transport, and an ICQ transport.  Each 
  of these exercises have met with nothing but mysterious messages like "Not 
  acceptable" and "Not Implemented".  The AIM transport wouldn't compile at 
  all, regardless of what the FAQ's and HowTo's said.
   
  I've checked every 
  character of XML, verified it with the HOWTO and the FAQ's, straightened away 
  the indents so it looked pretty (with some servers, neatness counts!), run the 
  server in debug mode (which basically produces zillions of useless lines) and 
  by this point, IF I had hair, I'd be tearing it out.
   
  Is there anyone 
  who has actually gotten ICQ or conferencing to work?  I'm running the 
  server on both RH6.2 and RH7.1 with identical results.  That is, the 
  basic server comes up beautifully and JUD is a TREAT!  If that were 
  all I needed to work, I could be happy with that.
   
  I'm convinced 
  there has GOT to be a config problem, but looking at the docs and looking at 
  what I've got in jabber.xml, they're near identical (except for machine name, 
  of course).  All the virtual machine names in the id's are unique and 
  present in DNS (both internal and external DNS's, that is).  The FAQ's 
  didn't have a whole lot to go on and I didn't find the other documentation to 
  be much help.  I've read everything I could get to on the jabber.* 
  sites...
   
  Could anyone share 
  their experience in bringing up the latest version of conferencing and/or ICQ 
  transport?  I'd be a most grateful!!
   
   
  
  Bill FarrellWebmasterhttp://www.ages.comhttp://www.vaspartsonline.com
  
  Please visit us at www.vaspartsonline.com for 
  quotes, order updates, specials, AGES / Volvo Aerospace general information, 
  and related aviation news.
  All price quotations are provided for information 
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  the market of the material quoted, without prior notice. Any contract for 
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  terms and conditions of sale. Any material sold and shipped to a Customer, 
  and/or resold and shipped (to a third party, etc.), MUST comply with U.S. 
  Export Regulations. No material can be sold or shipped to a debarred entity or 
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  This e-mail message/fax, may contain legally 
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Re: [JDEV] Newbie

[John Hebert]

5/3/01 12:47:03 PM, Bill Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Hello, Everyone,
...
>   Could anyone share their experience in bringing up the latest version of
>   conferencing and/or ICQ transport?  I'd be a most grateful!!

I've gotten the conferencing transport to work pretty easily by following the docs 
included.

I'm not sure where to start with explaining how to go about installing the transports, 
but I'll try:

1. What is the exact URL of the transport package(s) you are trying to install?
2. What does your jabber.xml look like?
3. What are the errors you are seeing?

--
John Hebert
System Engineer
http://www.vedalabs.com
Changing your state of mind through sound. 

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Re: [JDEV] Newbie

[DJ Adams]

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 03:47:03PM -0400, Bill Farrell wrote:
>  
> Could anyone share their experience in bringing up the latest version of
> conferencing and/or ICQ transport?  I'd be a most grateful!!

Hi Bill

Any chance of posting your jabber.xml here so we could have a look?

cheers
dj
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RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Max Metral]

The way MSN does it is much lighter weight in general (but provides less
functionality).  Basically if an ack isn't received within a timeout, the
client is in charge of alerting the user that something went wrong (which it
does by putting a red message in the IM window saying the message *may* not
have been received).  It may be doing a retry under the covers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


So let me get this straight,

I send a message, if the recipient receives a message, he responds saying
that the message was received right?  And if there was no response, the
sender client would save the message and try again?

Now this brings me to another question, does the server store any messages
at any time?  Like if I send a message to a user that is offline, can the
server store that message and send it when that user goes online (like ICQ
or e-mail even)?

Travis

 Original Message 
From: temas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-05-03 10:52:24.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could
sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with
an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging,
but
> the lack of reliability.   
> 
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> 
> Travis 
> 
>  Original Message  
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing /
guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > What's the whole setup? 
> > 
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> > 
> > --temas 
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > 
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > > 
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > Travis Reeder 
> > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> ___ jdev mailing list
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_

[JDEV] Newbie

[Bill Farrell]

Hello, 
Everyone,
 
I'm having a good 
experience with the basic jabberd and got a local JUD added with zero 
problem.  That was a Good Thing.  
 
I've since tried to 
add a conference, and AIM transport, and an ICQ transport.  Each of 
these exercises have met with nothing but mysterious messages like "Not 
acceptable" and "Not Implemented".  The AIM transport wouldn't compile at 
all, regardless of what the FAQ's and HowTo's said.
 
I've checked every 
character of XML, verified it with the HOWTO and the FAQ's, straightened away 
the indents so it looked pretty (with some servers, neatness counts!), run the 
server in debug mode (which basically produces zillions of useless lines) and by 
this point, IF I had hair, I'd be tearing it out.
 
Is there anyone who 
has actually gotten ICQ or conferencing to work?  I'm running the server on 
both RH6.2 and RH7.1 with identical results.  That is, the basic server 
comes up beautifully and JUD is a TREAT!  If that were all I needed to 
work, I could be happy with that.
 
I'm convinced there 
has GOT to be a config problem, but looking at the docs and looking at what I've 
got in jabber.xml, they're near identical (except for machine name, of 
course).  All the virtual machine names in the id's are unique and present 
in DNS (both internal and external DNS's, that is).  The FAQ's didn't have 
a whole lot to go on and I didn't find the other documentation to be much 
help.  I've read everything I could get to on the jabber.* 
sites...
 
Could anyone share 
their experience in bringing up the latest version of conferencing and/or ICQ 
transport?  I'd be a most grateful!!
 
 

Bill FarrellWebmasterhttp://www.ages.comhttp://www.vaspartsonline.com

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RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Colin Madere]

Title: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?





Correct and yes.


Offline messages are supported in the current server, to my knowledge.  I don't know all the gory details though :)


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:21 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight,
> 
> I send a message, if the recipient receives a message, he 
> responds saying that the message was received right?  And if 
> there was no response, the sender client would save the 
> message and try again?
> 
> Now this brings me to another question, does the server store 
> any messages at any time?  Like if I send a message to a user 
> that is offline, can the server store that message and send 
> it when that user goes online (like ICQ or e-mail even)?
> 
> Travis
> 
>  Original Message 
> From: temas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 2001-05-03 10:52:24.0
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
> http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html
> 
> Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
> have some functionality tailored to that idea.
> 
> --temas
> 
> On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> > 
> > Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a 
> client?  You could sent
> > "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent 
> to you and the
> > client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a 
> message with an
> >  namespace that the special client knows to process 
> differently.. no
> > server mod necessary...
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> > 
> > 
> > I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business 
> environment that didn't
> > get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight 
> into the trash
> > can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  
> I'm pretty sure
> > that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not 
> lose any messages,
> > or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq 
> for years now.
> > This is probably the one thing that will make me switch 
> back to icq (been
> > using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed 
> over.  It's not
> > the lack of features because the most important thing here 
> is messaging, but
> > the lack of reliability.   
> > 
> > I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a 
> message was
> > received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> > 
> > Travis 
> > 
> >  Original Message  
> > From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> > To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging 
> (although I'm sure
> > everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> > complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, 
> MQseries and JMS in
> > general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would 
> probably be an
> > interesting thing to do.
> > (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> > Are there any open standards out there regarding message 
> queing / guarenteed
> > messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > > -Original Message- 
> > > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > What's the whole setup? 
> > > 
> > > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being 
> discussed in JAM. 
> > > 
> > > --temas 
> > > 
> > > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > > 
> > > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from 
> icq users?  
> > > > 
> > > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > > 
> > > > Travis Reeder 
> > > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ___ 
> > > > jdev mailing list 
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > > 
> > ___ jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> 
> __

Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??

[temas]

Rate limitting is the connections per second from an ip, karma is the
amount of data you can read and process over a period of time.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 13:56:07 -0500, Dustin Puryear wrote:
> temas wrote:
> > 
> > I thought that function only did rate limit checks, not karma?
> 
> Well, whatever it does, I am no longer rate-limited. 
> 
> Regards, Dustin
> 
> > 
> > --temas
> > 
> > On 03 May 2001 10:04:43 -0500, Dustin Puryear wrote:
> > > Dixon Canario wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Dustin,
> > > >
> > > > Can I get your soluction please... can I get the code for that file or
> > > > just tell me what to fix so that I can solve that problem, too.
> > > >
> > > > oh and what you mean by: Short-Circuiting it!
> > > >Well help me man, this part is kicking my behind... :)
> > >
> > > Change jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check() to:
> > >
> > > int jlimit_check(jlimit r, char *key, int points)
> > > {
> > > int now = time(NULL);
> > >
> > > if(r == NULL) return 0;
> > >
> > > return 0;
> > > ...
> > >
> > > This seems to do the trick.
> > >
> > > Regards, Dustin
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanx,
> > > > Dixon
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > > Dustin Puryear
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:57 PM
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??
> > > >
> > > > FYI, I ended up short-circuiting the karma code in
> > > > jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check(). Using 0 does not seem to
> > > > work.
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Dustin
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> > > > In the beginning the Universe was created.
> > > > This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> > > > ___
> > > > jdev mailing list
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > jdev mailing list
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> > > In the beginning the Universe was created.
> > > This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> > > ___
> > > jdev mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > 
> > ___
> > jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> 
> -- 
> Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> In the beginning the Universe was created. 
> This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> ___
> jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

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RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[travis]

So let me get this straight,

I send a message, if the recipient receives a message, he responds saying that the 
message was received right?  And if there was no response, the sender client would 
save the message and try again?

Now this brings me to another question, does the server store any messages at any 
time?  Like if I send a message to a user that is offline, can the server store that 
message and send it when that user goes online (like ICQ or e-mail even)?

Travis

 Original Message 
From: temas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-05-03 10:52:24.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but
> the lack of reliability.   
> 
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> 
> Travis 
> 
>  Original Message  
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > What's the whole setup? 
> > 
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> > 
> > --temas 
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > 
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > > 
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > Travis Reeder 
> > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> ___ jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

___
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

___
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Max Metral]

I agree with that, but isn't this thread (also?) about normal IM messages
and the fact that you don't get positive ack for those either?

-Original Message-
From: Guy Hussussian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


Plain and simple. MSN does not support offline messages.  MSN requires that
all participants (clients) on a 'chat' connect to the same (MSN) server. If
the clients are not attached the message is rejected.

The MSN switchboard model at work here.

-G
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Max Metral
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:46 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but doesn't MSN Messenger already do
this (message ack)?  How did they implement it in their protocol?  (I don't
know what's happening behind, but when you IM someone sometimes it comes
back with a non-delivery error, even though other convos are working)

-Original Message-
From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
>
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could
sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with
an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
>
>
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging,
but
> the lack of reliability.
>
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.
>
> Travis
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
>
>
>
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service)
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing /
guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message-
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> >
> >
> > What's the whole setup?
> >
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM.
> >
> > --temas
> >
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.
> > >
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?
> > >
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks.
> > >
> > > Travis Reeder
> > > Chief Software Architect
> > > ThinkVirtual
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > jdev mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> >
> >
> > ___
> > jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> >
> ___ jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

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Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??

[Dustin Puryear]

temas wrote:
> 
> I thought that function only did rate limit checks, not karma?

Well, whatever it does, I am no longer rate-limited. 

Regards, Dustin

> 
> --temas
> 
> On 03 May 2001 10:04:43 -0500, Dustin Puryear wrote:
> > Dixon Canario wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Dustin,
> > >
> > > Can I get your soluction please... can I get the code for that file or
> > > just tell me what to fix so that I can solve that problem, too.
> > >
> > > oh and what you mean by: Short-Circuiting it!
> > >Well help me man, this part is kicking my behind... :)
> >
> > Change jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check() to:
> >
> > int jlimit_check(jlimit r, char *key, int points)
> > {
> > int now = time(NULL);
> >
> > if(r == NULL) return 0;
> >
> > return 0;
> > ...
> >
> > This seems to do the trick.
> >
> > Regards, Dustin
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanx,
> > > Dixon
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Dustin Puryear
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:57 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??
> > >
> > > FYI, I ended up short-circuiting the karma code in
> > > jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check(). Using 0 does not seem to
> > > work.
> > >
> > > Regards, Dustin
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> > > In the beginning the Universe was created.
> > > This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> > > ___
> > > jdev mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > >
> > > ___
> > > jdev mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> >
> > --
> > Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> > In the beginning the Universe was created.
> > This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> > ___
> > jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> 
> ___
> jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

-- 
Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
In the beginning the Universe was created. 
This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
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Re: [JDEV] Guaranteed message delivery (was: Unreliable?)

[DJ Adams]

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 01:35:03PM -0500, Colin Madere wrote:

> You still maintain the ability to send message to clients that don't support
> your specialized  section, but you will need some way to know (which I
> believe there is a way to ask for someone's client type) to not wait for
> return receipts from those clients.

You can send a jabber:iq:version query to get the basic client details 
but perhaps a browse would be a better way to implement discovery of 
things like this. Just thinking aloud...

dj
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[JDEV] Guaranteed message delivery (was: Unreliable?)

[Colin Madere]

Title:  [JDEV] Guaranteed message delivery (was: Unreliable?)






Maybe I was not verbose enough in my explanation.


Guaranteed messages is not currently a feature of the Jabber server OR any Jabber clients I know of.  It would be a nice _optional_ feature of the Jabber server, but should be optional since it would cause increased traffic that some solutions may not want.

Here is a more verbose explanation of what I was proposing using the existing Jabber server version(s) and modifying an existing client or rolling your own:

Note:  Not showing server in this since it includes not logic for guarenteed


1) Client A sends message -> Client B 
2) Client B recv message and sends a "receipt message" -> Client A
3) Client A removes message from "pending receipt" list


Client A will alert user if a message is on the "pending receipt" list for more than X seconds.


The "receipt message" could be a standard message with no normal body text but includes an  section which includes the message that was received and any other pertinent information.  The specialized client would know to process this  section to update it's "pending receipt" list.

You still maintain the ability to send message to clients that don't support your specialized  section, but you will need some way to know (which I believe there is a way to ask for someone's client type) to not wait for return receipts from those clients.

Colin Madere
Vedalabs, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?



But what if the client never gets the message?  That's the whole problem here.  The server needs to know whether the client got the message or not, not the other way around. 

Travis 


 Original Message  
From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: 2001-05-03 09:01:34.0 
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 




Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no server mod necessary...

-Original Message- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 



I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages, or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.  This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but the lack of reliability.   

I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   

Travis 
 Original Message  
From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 




I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an interesting thing to do.

(JMS = Java Message Service) 
Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?

> -Original Message- 
> From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> What's the whole setup? 
> 
> As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> 
> --temas 
> 
> On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > 
> > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > 
> > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > 
> > Travis Reeder 
> > Chief Software Architect 
> > ThinkVirtual 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> 
> 
> ___

RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Guy Hussussian]

Plain and simple. MSN does not support offline messages.  MSN requires that
all participants (clients) on a 'chat' connect to the same (MSN) server. If
the clients are not attached the message is rejected.

The MSN switchboard model at work here.

-G
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Max Metral
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:46 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but doesn't MSN Messenger already do
this (message ack)?  How did they implement it in their protocol?  (I don't
know what's happening behind, but when you IM someone sometimes it comes
back with a non-delivery error, even though other convos are working)

-Original Message-
From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
>
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could
sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with
an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
>
>
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging,
but
> the lack of reliability.
>
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.
>
> Travis
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
>
>
>
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service)
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing /
guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message-
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> >
> >
> > What's the whole setup?
> >
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM.
> >
> > --temas
> >
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.
> > >
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?
> > >
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks.
> > >
> > > Travis Reeder
> > > Chief Software Architect
> > > ThinkVirtual
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > jdev mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> >
> >
> > ___
> > jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> >
> ___ jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

___
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RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Max Metral]

Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but doesn't MSN Messenger already do
this (message ack)?  How did they implement it in their protocol?  (I don't
know what's happening behind, but when you IM someone sometimes it comes
back with a non-delivery error, even though other convos are working)

-Original Message-
From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?


http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could
sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with
an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging,
but
> the lack of reliability.   
> 
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> 
> Travis 
> 
>  Original Message  
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing /
guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > What's the whole setup? 
> > 
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> > 
> > --temas 
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > 
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > > 
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > Travis Reeder 
> > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> ___ jdev mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev

___
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RE: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[travis]

Title: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?



But what if the client never gets the message?  That's the whole problem here.  The server needs to know whether the client got the message or not, not the other way around.



Travis



 Original Message 

From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: 2001-05-03 09:01:34.0

To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?






Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no server mod necessary...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?



I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages, or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.  This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but the lack of reliability.   

I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   

Travis 


 Original Message  
From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 




I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an interesting thing to do.

(JMS = Java Message Service) 
Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?

> -Original Message- 
> From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> What's the whole setup? 
> 
> As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> 
> --temas 
> 
> On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > 
> > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > 
> > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > 
> > Travis Reeder 
> > Chief Software Architect 
> > ThinkVirtual 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> 
> 
> ___ 
> jdev mailing list 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> 
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RE: RE: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[travis]

Actually, you could be right, so the server might not register that you have logged 
off and so sends off messages to you still even though you aren't online. Just another 
reason to make the clients send back a "message received" to the server so the server 
can know to get rid of that message.

Travis

 Original Message 
From: Max Horn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-05-03 09:13:20.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?

At 11:34 Uhr -0600 02.05.2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I think there should be some response from the client back to the 
>server letting it know that it has received the message and can then 
>delete.  If no response is returned, then it will retry, or wait 
>until another presence from the client has been sent.  Something 
>along those lines anyway.  It's impossible to get to trust something 
>like this unless you know without a doubt that you are not going to 
>miss any messages.


I wonder if this is related to the bug I described some days ago on 
this mailing list (but never got a reply) related to muliple 
presence, and the lack of automatical delivery of  ... the server normally should broadcast this 
when a user logs off, but sometimes doesn't. So far whenever I got 
this it was related to multiple resources, though.


Max
-- 
---
Max Horn
C++/ObjC/Java Developer

email: 
phone: (+49) 6151-494890

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Re: [JDEV] etherx, what is it?

[temas]

You can sort of think of jabberd as etherx, but etherx as a single piece
is gone.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 11:52:06 -0400, Randy Higginbotham wrote:
> Forgive me for being a kook, but what is etherx used for in the 1.4.1
> release of the jabber server. It's not found in any Makefile. I see from the
> source code some indications of "1.0 style" etherx attributes. I'm working
> on a linux (rel 2.2.16) box, is etherx part of the kernel? Please someone
> clarify my cornfusion.
> 
> Randy
> 
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Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??

[temas]

I thought that function only did rate limit checks, not karma?

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:04:43 -0500, Dustin Puryear wrote:
> Dixon Canario wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Dustin,
> > 
> > Can I get your soluction please... can I get the code for that file or
> > just tell me what to fix so that I can solve that problem, too.
> > 
> > oh and what you mean by: Short-Circuiting it!
> >Well help me man, this part is kicking my behind... :)
> 
> Change jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check() to:
> 
> int jlimit_check(jlimit r, char *key, int points)
> {
> int now = time(NULL);
> 
> if(r == NULL) return 0;
> 
> return 0;
> ...
> 
> This seems to do the trick. 
> 
> Regards, Dustin
> 
> 
> > 
> > Thanx,
> > Dixon
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Dustin Puryear
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:57 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??
> > 
> > FYI, I ended up short-circuiting the karma code in
> > jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check(). Using 0 does not seem to
> > work.
> > 
> > Regards, Dustin
> > 
> > --
> > Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> > In the beginning the Universe was created.
> > This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> > ___
> > jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> > 
> > ___
> > jdev mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
> 
> -- 
> Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> In the beginning the Universe was created. 
> This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> ___
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber

[temas]

yes, sorry.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:06:37 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> Thanks!  That'll work.
> 
> One thing, do you mean "dpsms" rather than "jpollds" down there?  (I
> remember jpolld was the old scaling attempt...)
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:36 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber
> > 
> > 
> > Ok, well...
> > In short:  dpsm is the devpoll socket manager.  It handles sockets in
> > the same manner as c2s currently, but does it in a higher scaling
> > fashion.
> > 
> > In long, normal c2s only handles 1024 sockets, that sucks.  
> > So I looked
> > at the latest and greatest socket technology and saw devpoll 
> > to probably
> > be the best option.  I then designed dpsm around devpoll and 
> > around the
> > idea of running it in front of the main jabberd to handle a lot of
> > sockets. 
> > 
> > Example:  two mid size boxes in front of a larger backend box, the
> > smaller running the jpollds, and the larger only jabbed.
> > 
> > So there is a lame summary of it and an example setup.  It's still
> > growing, but should be functional.
> > 
> > --temas
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 15:06:46 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> > > temas,
> > > 
> > > Any chance you could give us a quick run-down of what dpsm 
> > does and how it
> > > should be used?  I scanned the source and such, but it 
> > would be nice to get
> > > a clear picture from the author about it :)
> > > 
> > > colin
> > > 
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:22 PM
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > dpsm is me.  It works right now (requires kernel module 
> > for devpoll
> > > > support).  It's not fully tested, but that should be 
> > > > happening more this
> > > > week.  Give it a go and help develop it and I'll love you =)
> > > > 
> > > > Not sure on mod_farm right now, haven't looked in a while.
> > > > 
> > > > --temas
> > > > 
> > > > On 02 May 2001 09:56:50 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> > > > > Another note:
> > > > > 
> > > > > According to jabber.com, they charge based on concurrent 
> > > > users on the
> > > > > server.  Currently they are in a state which it is not 
> > > > profitable for them
> > > > > to deal with small companies(they didn't really give me 
> > a number) or
> > > > > companies that did not have a _gaurenteed_ high number of 
> > > > concurrent users.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Going on three weeks now that I'm waiting for answers to 
> > > > technical questions
> > > > > to see if the jabber.com server is a viable solution 
> > for my company.
> > > > > 
> > > > > IOW, until they get some big sales and can beef up on 
> > > > resources (read: more
> > > > > employees), I wouldn't waste your time or theirs unless you 
> > > > have a need for
> > > > > a server (and can afford it - once again, I didn't get any 
> > > > prices) that will
> > > > > have a constant concurrent user count above 10K (that's my 
> > > > guess, since they
> > > > > didn't give me any solid numbers).
> > > > > 
> > > > > (Don't get me wrong, I understand their need to focus on 
> > > > customers that can
> > > > > bring in the big cash until they have good income and are 
> > > > stabilized)
> > > > > 
> > > > > WHILE I'm on the subject, hey JER and whoever else has 
> > > > worked on it, what's
> > > > > the status of dpsm and 'mod_farm' is it?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:24 PM
> > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Lemme just translate this marketing stuff to 
> > engineering speak:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >"Enables Distributed Processing across multiple server 
> > > > > > "farms" which in
> > > > > > > >  turn may support multiple CPUs."
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Jabber.com reworked the server to be pre-emptively 
> > multi-threaded
> > > > > > (pthreads). Additionally, some work on JSM was done to 
> > > > permit multiple
> > > > > > JSMs to be fully meshed across a network. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >"Allows components of a Jabber server to be distributed 
> > > > > > across multiple
> > > > > > > >  machines, enabling a greater degree of inherent 
> > redundancy."
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Not sure what this means. :) 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >"Enables groups of "socket" connections to be 
> > > > distributed across
> > > > > > > >mini-servers
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The component formerly known as jpoll. Open source now has an
> > > > > > equivalent called dspm (or dpsm, never can get it straight).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > As it stands, j.com has pretty much rewritten most of jabberd 
> > > > > > to be super
> > > > > > e

RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[temas]

http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/events.html
http://docs.jabber.org/draft-proto/html/expire.html

Although not spec yet, we have discussed this issue before, and events
have some functionality tailored to that idea.

--temas

On 03 May 2001 10:01:34 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent
> "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the
> client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an
>  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no
> server mod necessary...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't
> get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash
> can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure
> that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages,
> or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.
> This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been
> using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not
> the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but
> the lack of reliability.   
> 
> I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was
> received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   
> 
> Travis 
> 
>  Original Message  
> From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure
> everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server
> complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in
> general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an
> interesting thing to do.
> (JMS = Java Message Service) 
> Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed
> messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> > 
> > 
> > What's the whole setup? 
> > 
> > As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> > 
> > --temas 
> > 
> > On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> > guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> > buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> > email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > > 
> > > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> > using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > > 
> > > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > Travis Reeder 
> > > Chief Software Architect 
> > > ThinkVirtual 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___ 
> > > jdev mailing list 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> > 
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RE: [JDEV] etherx, what is it?

[Ted Rolle]

> ... cornfusion.

... Now there's food for thought!
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Re: [JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall

[Stijn Opheide]

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 04:58:24PM +0200, Stijn Opheide wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> i just set up a server on a private student-network of our university,
> and i'm wondering if it is possible to have correspondation with the
> main jabber-server if our server is behind an Address Translator (we
> have ip's in the 10.* range), so our dns-entries and ip's are not
> accessible from outside our network.

OK, we're working on a solution. We have a couple of computers that have
an external IP and that can also access the 10.* addresses. So how can
we best set up things?

i'll call the computer with access to both networks 'try', then the
other servers on the internal network are 'damien' and 'meister'.

We would like to have meister and damien connecting to try for user
information. So that they don't connect to users.jabber.org and that try
connects to users.jabber.org for user information of the rest of the
world.
then, will damien and meister also know other users then their own?

greetings,

Stijn.


-- 
Stijn Opheide
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[JDEV] etherx, what is it?

[Randy Higginbotham]

Forgive me for being a kook, but what is etherx used for in the 1.4.1
release of the jabber server. It's not found in any Makefile. I see from the
source code some indications of "1.0 style" etherx attributes. I'm working
on a linux (rel 2.2.16) box, is etherx part of the kernel? Please someone
clarify my cornfusion.

Randy

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Re: [JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall

[DJ Adams]

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 10:19:13AM -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> 
> Couldn't you set the name of the jabber server to the NAT box externally and
> do some port forwarding for 5222/5269?  Seems like I've seen someone post on
> here before about how to accomplish that...

Ah yeah, I remember that too now ;-)

dj
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RE: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Max Horn]

At 11:34 Uhr -0600 02.05.2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I think there should be some response from the client back to the 
>server letting it know that it has received the message and can then 
>delete.  If no response is returned, then it will retry, or wait 
>until another presence from the client has been sent.  Something 
>along those lines anyway.  It's impossible to get to trust something 
>like this unless you know without a doubt that you are not going to 
>miss any messages.


I wonder if this is related to the bug I described some days ago on 
this mailing list (but never got a reply) related to muliple 
presence, and the lack of automatical delivery of  ... the server normally should broadcast this 
when a user logs off, but sometimes doesn't. So far whenever I got 
this it was related to multiple resources, though.


Max
-- 
---
Max Horn
C++/ObjC/Java Developer

email: 
phone: (+49) 6151-494890
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RE: [JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall

[Colin Madere]

Title: RE: [JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall






Couldn't you set the name of the jabber server to the NAT box externally and do some port forwarding for 5222/5269?  Seems like I've seen someone post on here before about how to accomplish that...

> -Original Message-
> From: DJ Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:07 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 04:58:24PM +0200, Stijn Opheide wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > i just set up a server on a private student-network of our 
> university,
> > and i'm wondering if it is possible to have correspondation with the
> > main jabber-server if our server is behind an Address Translator (we
> > have ip's in the 10.* range), so our dns-entries and ip's are not
> > accessible from outside our network.
> 
> Hi Stijn
> 
> (assuming you mean the server at jabber.org by 'main')
> 
> no, the server to server (s2s) component will try and reach 
> your server
> in a dialback process for server identity verification and 
> will fail if
> it can't resolve / reach the host.
> 
> dj
> in neck-sticking-out mode again
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Re: [JDEV] Jabber Test Suite on hold

[Dustin Puryear]

DJ Adams wrote:
> > logins (may need less, but I am only using second-resolution at this
> > point) or I get errors. Also, I ended ripping out the karma code in
> 
> Could this be the  ?

Doesn't seem to affect it. Also, I am experiencing problems even with
the default rate setting:

   

What happens is that _usually_ by the third time I open a stream and
start sending data Jabber does NOT send the messages I send back to me.
I just use a select() to time-out after a second or so in order to abort
a read(), which would just hang. If I introduce a 1-second delay (maybe
shorter, but this is the value I'm using now) then I have no problems. I
can connect X times and each message I send is sent back to me. 

You can see the problem by running active_jab, from the test suite, as:

$ ./active_jab -s localhost -j crack -t 5 

This produces the time-outs. If I use:

$ ./active_jab -s localhost -j crack -t 5 -w 1

Then I get no time-outs.

Anyone have any suggestions? 

Regards, Dustin



> 
> dj
> 
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This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
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Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??

[Dustin Puryear]

Dixon Canario wrote:
> 
> Hi Dustin,
> 
> Can I get your soluction please... can I get the code for that file or
> just tell me what to fix so that I can solve that problem, too.
> 
> oh and what you mean by: Short-Circuiting it!
>Well help me man, this part is kicking my behind... :)

Change jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check() to:

int jlimit_check(jlimit r, char *key, int points)
{
int now = time(NULL);

if(r == NULL) return 0;

return 0;
...

This seems to do the trick. 

Regards, Dustin


> 
> Thanx,
> Dixon
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Dustin Puryear
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:57 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] does anyone knows how to disable Karma??
> 
> FYI, I ended up short-circuiting the karma code in
> jabberd/lib/rate.c:jlimit_check(). Using 0 does not seem to
> work.
> 
> Regards, Dustin
> 
> --
> Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
> In the beginning the Universe was created.
> This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
> ___
> jdev mailing list
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> 
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This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
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RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?

[Colin Madere]

Title: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?






Couldn't someone relatively easily build this into a client?  You could sent "message receipt" messages with the ID of the message sent to you and the client could take care of keeping track of it.  Just send a message with an  namespace that the special client knows to process differently.. no server mod necessary...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?



I couldn't imagine using a messenger in a business environment that didn't get all the messages through to me.  That would go straight into the trash can if I wasn't sure I was going to get a message or not.  I'm pretty sure that when using icq or the other messengers, you do not lose any messages, or I have never run across it at least and I've used icq for years now.  This is probably the one thing that will make me switch back to icq (been using jabber for about a month now) until this is smoothed over.  It's not the lack of features because the most important thing here is messaging, but the lack of reliability.   

I really think there should be a way of guaranteeing that a message was received.  Or if not, at least bounce it back.   

Travis 


 Original Message  
From: Colin Madere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: 2001-05-02 13:19:00.0 
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: RE: [JDEV] Unreliable? 




I don't know that everyone needs _guarenteed_ messaging (although I'm sure everyone would like it).  That does add overhead and client/server complexity.  I've looked into things such as SonicMQ, MQseries and JMS in general and a Jabber server/client developed on JMS would probably be an interesting thing to do.

(JMS = Java Message Service) 
Are there any open standards out there regarding message queing / guarenteed messages etc. besides JMS (since some people still don't like Java)?

> -Original Message- 
> From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:19 PM 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable? 
> 
> 
> What's the whole setup? 
> 
> As for messaging as you describe it, this is being discussed in JAM. 
> 
> --temas 
> 
> On 02 May 2001 10:20:25 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be 
> guaranteed to receive a message.  Now most of my list is icq 
> buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell people to 
> email me if they want to make sure I get it.  
> > 
> > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm 
> using jim mostly)?  Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users?  
> > 
> > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks. 
> > 
> > Travis Reeder 
> > Chief Software Architect 
> > ThinkVirtual 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
> > jdev mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev 
> 
> 
> ___ 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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> 
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Re: [JDEV] Setting karma to disabled

[Dustin Puryear]

> "Harold E. Gottschalk Jr." wrote:
> 
> Dustin,
> I spent most of my day looking through the jabberd code and found some
> code that was misleading mio.c that I will present later after I come
> up with a fix.
> 
> If you set the following you will disable karma, go to the service c2s
> and set the  to zero there.

Odd. I have the following and I still get rate-limited when I remove my
"fix" to rate.c:

 

  ./pthsock/pthsock_client.so


  

  2
  1024
  4096
  6
  0
  0
  1024


Regards, Dustin


> 
>   
> 
>   ./pthsock/pthsock_client.so
> 
> 
>   
>   
> 10
> 10
> 1
> 0
> -6
> 10
>   
> 
> I did this and it worked for me.  If it does not work then I might
> have fixed something in mio.c that made it work.  But the hacks I did
> there did not make it work unil I played with the above karma.  I
> played with the karma in  to no avail.
> 
> I hope this helps you out.
> 
> heg
> 
> "If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it." -
> Albert Einstein
> 
> 

-- 
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This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
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Re: [JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall

[DJ Adams]

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 04:58:24PM +0200, Stijn Opheide wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> i just set up a server on a private student-network of our university,
> and i'm wondering if it is possible to have correspondation with the
> main jabber-server if our server is behind an Address Translator (we
> have ip's in the 10.* range), so our dns-entries and ip's are not
> accessible from outside our network.

Hi Stijn

(assuming you mean the server at jabber.org by 'main')

no, the server to server (s2s) component will try and reach your server
in a dialback process for server identity verification and will fail if
it can't resolve / reach the host.

dj
in neck-sticking-out mode again
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RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber

[Colin Madere]

Title: RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber





Thanks!  That'll work.


One thing, do you mean "dpsms" rather than "jpollds" down there?  (I remember jpolld was the old scaling attempt...)


> -Original Message-
> From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber
> 
> 
> Ok, well...
> In short:  dpsm is the devpoll socket manager.  It handles sockets in
> the same manner as c2s currently, but does it in a higher scaling
> fashion.
> 
> In long, normal c2s only handles 1024 sockets, that sucks.  
> So I looked
> at the latest and greatest socket technology and saw devpoll 
> to probably
> be the best option.  I then designed dpsm around devpoll and 
> around the
> idea of running it in front of the main jabberd to handle a lot of
> sockets. 
> 
> Example:  two mid size boxes in front of a larger backend box, the
> smaller running the jpollds, and the larger only jabbed.
> 
> So there is a lame summary of it and an example setup.  It's still
> growing, but should be functional.
> 
> --temas
> 
> On 02 May 2001 15:06:46 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> > temas,
> > 
> > Any chance you could give us a quick run-down of what dpsm 
> does and how it
> > should be used?  I scanned the source and such, but it 
> would be nice to get
> > a clear picture from the author about it :)
> > 
> > colin
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:22 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber
> > > 
> > > 
> > > dpsm is me.  It works right now (requires kernel module 
> for devpoll
> > > support).  It's not fully tested, but that should be 
> > > happening more this
> > > week.  Give it a go and help develop it and I'll love you =)
> > > 
> > > Not sure on mod_farm right now, haven't looked in a while.
> > > 
> > > --temas
> > > 
> > > On 02 May 2001 09:56:50 -0500, Colin Madere wrote:
> > > > Another note:
> > > > 
> > > > According to jabber.com, they charge based on concurrent 
> > > users on the
> > > > server.  Currently they are in a state which it is not 
> > > profitable for them
> > > > to deal with small companies(they didn't really give me 
> a number) or
> > > > companies that did not have a _gaurenteed_ high number of 
> > > concurrent users.
> > > > 
> > > > Going on three weeks now that I'm waiting for answers to 
> > > technical questions
> > > > to see if the jabber.com server is a viable solution 
> for my company.
> > > > 
> > > > IOW, until they get some big sales and can beef up on 
> > > resources (read: more
> > > > employees), I wouldn't waste your time or theirs unless you 
> > > have a need for
> > > > a server (and can afford it - once again, I didn't get any 
> > > prices) that will
> > > > have a constant concurrent user count above 10K (that's my 
> > > guess, since they
> > > > didn't give me any solid numbers).
> > > > 
> > > > (Don't get me wrong, I understand their need to focus on 
> > > customers that can
> > > > bring in the big cash until they have good income and are 
> > > stabilized)
> > > > 
> > > > WHILE I'm on the subject, hey JER and whoever else has 
> > > worked on it, what's
> > > > the status of dpsm and 'mod_farm' is it?
> > > > 
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:24 PM
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Distributed design of jabber
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Lemme just translate this marketing stuff to 
> engineering speak:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > >"Enables Distributed Processing across multiple server 
> > > > > "farms" which in
> > > > > > >  turn may support multiple CPUs."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Jabber.com reworked the server to be pre-emptively 
> multi-threaded
> > > > > (pthreads). Additionally, some work on JSM was done to 
> > > permit multiple
> > > > > JSMs to be fully meshed across a network. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > >"Allows components of a Jabber server to be distributed 
> > > > > across multiple
> > > > > > >  machines, enabling a greater degree of inherent 
> redundancy."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Not sure what this means. :) 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > >"Enables groups of "socket" connections to be 
> > > distributed across
> > > > > > >mini-servers
> > > > > 
> > > > > The component formerly known as jpoll. Open source now has an
> > > > > equivalent called dspm (or dpsm, never can get it straight).
> > > > > 
> > > > > As it stands, j.com has pretty much rewritten most of jabberd 
> > > > > to be super
> > > > > efficient and thread-safe. This was _not_ a minor 
> > > undertaking, but was
> > > > > well worth the effort. Jabber.com provides a super-fast, 
> > > fully QA'd
> > > > > and peer-reviewed implementation of jabberd/jsm/etc. They've 
> > > > > worked very
> > > > > hard to make it scalable

[JDEV] server behind a NAT and firewall

[Stijn Opheide]

Hello,

i just set up a server on a private student-network of our university,
and i'm wondering if it is possible to have correspondation with the
main jabber-server if our server is behind an Address Translator (we
have ip's in the 10.* range), so our dns-entries and ip's are not
accessible from outside our network.

greetz,

Stijn.

-- 
Stijn Opheide
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://bifrost.kotnet.org -- http://cernunos.studentenweb.org
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Re: [JDEV] EtherX - What's the protocol?

[Mark Wilcox]

Mark Zamoyta wrote:

> Thanks for the replies.
>
>  If I wanted to communicate with Jabber users via my IM server, what would be
> the best way to go?  I'm thinking of taking EtherX and integrating it into
> my system.  Would this work, and how can I get some info on EtherX's
> protocol?

I would forget about EtherX. Instead my recommendation would be to just emmulate
the Jabber protocol itself.   The basic docs are at http://docs.jabber.org. The
protocol itself is not TCP based, it's XML based and transport agnostic ( well
we'll find out just how much so, if you accomplish this feat wirelessly).

Mark

> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> > or, as an alternative:
> >
> > Do you want to support the jabber 'server to server' protocol on your own
> server
> > so it can impersonate a jabber server, masquerade its users as jabber
> users, and
> > allow the local users to send messages out to jabber users?
> >
> > -David Waite
> >
> > temas wrote:
> >
> > > Just so I'm clear before I make a more full reply, what your saying is
> > > this:
> > >
> > > You have an IM system you want to bridge to Jabber, and rather than
> > > making a single transport that could be distributed to other people, you
> > > want to make a transport that you just run on your servers
> > > in front of your setup.  This way admins only have to alias the
> > > transport to you and not actually setup a transport.  Correct?
> > >
> > > --temas
> > >
> > > On 26 Apr 2001 16:25:02 -0700, Mark Zamoyta wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking of writing a Jabber Transport to my company's IM
> system, but
> > > > the problem is getting the transport installed on 35,000+ Jabber
> servers,
> > > > handling transport installation problems, making sure the transport
> gets
> > > > bundled in with future Jabber servers, etc...
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking it's alot easier for my company's IM system to "pretend"
> to be
> > > > a Jabber Server.
> > > >
> > > > Can I just integrate EtherX into my current system?   Is the EtherX
> protocol
> > > > documented anywhere?
> > > >
> > > > I'm interested in any ideas concerning this!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Mark
> > > > www.airstrategy.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > > ___
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> >
> >
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Proposal (was: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?)

[Kerem HADIMLI]

Well, i agree that this thing is bad in Jabber. Maybe something like;
The client sends something like , or
jabber:iq:embed within the jabber:iq:auth data when it
sends it.
Then, if the server supports this (if it doesn't, then it'll just ignore the
tag, XML-power :P), it would be able to send messages to the client embedded
inside a jabber:iq:embed info/query, and if it doesn't receive a reply within
30 seconds, will simply disconnect the client (will not 2nd message's iq,
before it received iq-result for the first). Also, the client will accept
normal messages.

In this way, if the client doesn't support jabber:iq:embed stuff, then it can
just connect as a regular basic client. If the client supports it, and the
server too, then the client will receive messages in a guaranteed way, but
will get disconnected if it doesn't reply within 30 seconds. Also, the server
won't send the client a second jabber:iq:embed info/query if it haven't
received reply to the first yet.

Also, the server will not accept any jabber:iq:embed info/queries from other
servers, nor other clients, and will reply itself with an error, to prevent
fake messages. And also, the client will reply with , if it
receives a jabber:iq:embed info/query, whose from attribute isn't the server
it's connected to (it can check from the values in stream:stream tag)

I think this system will be pretty good, also we'll have a "supports" tag
implemented in the authorization protocol, which will allow advanced
server-client communications if both sides support.


An example connection may be (af
ter opening stream):

SEND: 
SEND:  
SEND:   username
SEND:   password
SEND:   resource
SEND:   jabber:iq:embed
SEND:  
SEND: 

RECV: 
RECV:  
RECV:   jabber:iq:embed
RECV:  
RECV: 

SEND: 

RECV: 
RECV:  
RECV:   
RECV:Jabber rocks!
RECV:   
RECV:  
RECV: 

SEND: 
SEND:  
SEND: 

All please reply with your toughts about this stuff, i think this will be
best, and most Jabber-style way to do this.

Regards,
Kerem HADIMLI


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> I think there should be some response from the client back to the server letting it 
>know that it has received the message and can then delete.  If no response is 
>returned, then it will retry, or wait until another presence from the client has been 
>sent.  Something along those lines anyway.  It's impossible to get to trust something 
>like this unless you know without a doubt that you are not going to miss any messages.
> 
> Travis
> 
>  Original Message 
> From: "Thomas Parslow (PatRat)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 2001-05-02 10:44:38.0
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> 
> > My main concern with jabber is that you can't always be guaranteed to receive a 
>message.  Now most of my list is icq buddies, but I miss a lot of messages.  I tell 
>people to email me if they want
> > to make sure I get it.
> >
> > Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm using jim mostly)?  Or 
>is it just that it's mostly from icq users?
> >

> > Could someone give me some insight into this?  Thanks.
> >
> > Travis Reeder
> > Chief Software Architect
> > ThinkVirtual
> 
> It's probably to do with the bug I pointed out a little while ago, for
> some people, if they go offline without first shutting down jabber then
> they appear to be online for up to 15 minutes, any messages sent to
> them in that time go to the big bit bucket in the sky...
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any plans to fix this?
> 
> Thomas Parslow (PatRat) ICQ #:26359483
> Rat Software
> http://www.rat-software.com/
> Please leave quoted text in place when replying
> 

-- 
If it happens once, it's a bug.
If it happens twice, it's a feature.
If it happens more than twice, it's a design philosophy.

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Re: [JDEV] All clear

[DJ Adams]

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 07:27:42PM -0500, temas wrote:
> Interesting program, but I meant the current webboards/webboards system
> we have on the site now.

Great! Looking forward to using the webboards via an NNTP interface -
excellent.

Thanks temas

dj
(it also means I can do that part of my reading more comfortably from my
vt420 too ;-)

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