RE: [JDEV] how can get the information about IM open source
Spend a few hours at www.jabber.org. You will find the open source to the Jabber server, ICQ gateways (transports), and many Jabber clients there. Also, you will find lots of documentation about how the Jabber system works and how to set up your own server. There's a lot to see at www.jabber.org, so make sure to give yourself plenty of time to read it all. Then, if you have questions about setting up your own Jabber server, you should subscribe to the JADMIN email list, where you'll be able to get help from other Jabber administrators and developers. Todd. -Original Message- From: anna wang To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3/23/01 1:42 AM Subject: [JDEV] how can get the information about IM open source I want to get soem information about how to set up a system like icq with Java. I don't know where to gain the open source. it is better if the system can work in WAP. Thanks! ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Advertising Namespace
By strange coincidence, some of us at Jabber.com were just talking about this topic this morning. My own opinion is that banner ads should just be another RSS channel. There's no fundamental difference between pushing stock quotes or weather reports to my Jabber client and pushing advertising messages to my Jabber client. Todd. -Original Message-From: Duncan, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:30 PMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: [JDEV] Advertising Namespace Ok. First of all let me start off by saying I find banner ads on my IM clients annoying and invasive. I know this. However, for some shareware/freeware developers, the only way they can see any cost justification is by the selling of ad space on thier web sites and through some of their client software. One of the coolest news readers I've ever seen has a banner ad at the bottom. I respect the developer for going this route and not charging me for using his tool, as I now have this fantastic reader for free. Other developers may want this ability. Others will not. By providing a namespace for this, clients can exclude this, regardless if its sent or not, or if they wish, utilize the namespace to help offset the development costs. I'd guess it would be something like: jabber:x:advertisement http://www.mysoftware.com/bannerads/buy.jpg AE9323DEFGH123 This is not an email to instigate a full-fledge flame war against me or my value system. Thoughts? - Duncan
RE: [JDEV] Advertising Namespace
> Todd suggested something about another RSS channel. I'm not > sure what this > is so I can't speak to it. Perhaps more clarification? See here: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/rss/2000/03/17/about_meerkat.html There's been talk on and off over the past 6 months about someone writing some kind of RSS transport. It would (presumably) take RSS data fees from multiple sources, consolidate them, and then pass them on to a Jabber user to see in a Jabber client. However, I should note that I've never seen any working code, so it's just kind of a "neat to have" feature for the future. But rather than making a whole new namespace for banner ads, it seems more efficient to me to just finish the RSS stuff and have have banner ads be an RSS channel. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Q: oob and direct P2P communications
> ICQ most definately does not allow you to send files through > their servers. I do not know about Yahoo. Somebody told me that the file transfer feature of Yahoo IM was that one client uploads the file to a temporary WebDAV-like storage space on a web server. Then, the other client downloads it from the same place. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Detecting client/server disconnect?
Title: There's nothing special about that sequence. My JabberBot, for instance, sends a single \r every 30 seconds to keep its connection with the server alive. You could probably only send the "stay awake" reminder every few minutes and still get away with it. I agree the TCP keepalive on the server might be more elegant, but this is easier. Todd. -Original Message-From: Jens Alfke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:45 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [JDEV] Detecting client/server disconnect? On Friday, April 6, 2001, at 03:40 PM, Oliver Jones wrote: Winjab works around this problem. It sends, once a minute, the five byte no-op message space space tab space space to the server. This keeps the flow open. In xml terms, this message is formally a noop; very cool. This is a clever hack! Is there something magic about "space space tab space space" or would any whitespace sequence work? On the other hand, using TCP keepalive seems more efficient, since responding to pings would involve only the TCP stack on the server and not the Jabber server process itself. If you imagine a server with 10,000 simultaneous connections, there are going to be 167 of these pings a second, so efficiency becomes important... Jens
RE: [JDEV] "Shall we start a JabberPolitics mailing list?"
> I keep hearing this statistic, but never a source :-) Here is the source: http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/story?id=3ab2bdd71 Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] ANN: Client Developer's Cheat Sheet rev.1
Having the same thing for a server agent/service would be great, too, as I've discovered over the past week. There are much fewer examples out there of XML conversations between service and server then there are between client and server. -Original Message- From: Peter Saint-Andre To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/9/01 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [JDEV] ANN: Client Developer's Cheat Sheet rev.1 Hi Jens, Great document! I agree that we need a task-oriented or use-case-driven document that shows you what XML a Jabber client needs to send and receive to perform common IM functions. Thanks for putting this together. Peter Jens Alfke wrote: > > Over the weekend I wrote some documentation on how to write a Jabber client (rather, the back end of one.) It's an overview that mostly links to material in the JPO and JPG but collates it in a sequence that's more tutorial rather than reference in form. It also clears up some areas that are left very vague in the official docs (e.g. roster management) thanks to the helpful answers I got on this mailing list. > > http://homepage.mac.com/jens/Jabber/JabberClientCheatSheet.html > > This is a supplement to, not a replacement for, the official docs, and in fact I'd be more than happy if some of its organization or content got folded into future revs of the JPO. > > Since this is a first draft and since I'm a Jabber newbie (although one who has gotten his own client up and limping) it's likely that there are errors. If you see anything wrong or have any other feedback, I'd like to hear from you. (Definitely on the to-do list: converting the JPO and JPG references into hyperlinks.) > > -Jens -- Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] .. jabberim and file-transfer ..
The ability to change the file transfer method is planned for a future release of Jabber Instant Messenger. Right now, with version 1.6, there is no way to configure which file-server is used (other than to have Jabber.com create a custom version for you). If you're uncomfortable or unable to use files.jabber.com for file transfers, you should just tell your users not to use that feature. Also, note that the client is no longer called JabberIM. It is now Jabber Instant Messenger. You shouldn't find any references to "JabberIM" anywhere in the software or online help. Todd. -Original Message- From: Jens Langner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JDEV] .. jabberim and file-transfer .. Again me, and again I am wondering about some things about the new release of JabberIM. I tried the file-transfer and recognized that JabberIM is exchanging the files between two jabber-clients via the server http://files.jabber.com/ Of course this is working, but I wondered about the security if I want to use this feature from within a company and transfer important documents, because it is possible for everyone, if he/she knows the correct link to download the file if the transfer is still going on or if the receiver is pending with accepting the transfer. I found no possibility to modify the file-server for this. Has anyone a idea about this or how I can change this behaviour ?? thx, jens ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Kid-safe messaging: [was buddy icons]
> What I would recommend if you want to protect your users from messages > of this type is blocking all messages from people not on the roster, > this should be fairly watertight... Maybe things could be setup so > that all messages received from users not on the roster are forwarded > to another JID (the admins) but this would require a modified client. Or a server side module. > For the time being, just not using the ICQ transport should be enough, > it's not a problem on Jabber (in my experience). True enough. The only porn spam I ever get is when the ICQ gateway is working. Of course, once there is a Jabber client that works well through a firewall, I'll be able to convince the last ICQ holdouts to move over to Jabber and then it won't be an issue for me. However, even though spam isn't a problem yet on the Jabber network, there will come a day when it is does become a problem. Once there are enough users of Jabber, there will naturally follow those who want to advertise to them and then it's only a small step to Jabber spam. That's why it's important (to me, at least) to start planning for countermeasures sooner rather than later. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: Re[2]: [JDEV] Kid-safe messaging: [was buddy icons]
> How about having a way for a client to report a message as spam, it > could send back an with the message content and sender, then if > one user or message is reported many times as spam it will start to be > blocked, have to be thought out well so as to not allow loop holes for > abuse. I like the idea. But what's to stop that user from just creating a new JID? We might just see a lot of one-time JIDs pop up as happens with email spam now. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] install jabber server....
I'd like to suggest that somebody set up mailman to automatically send out the FAQ on a regular basis to the list and also send it to all new subscribers to the list. > -Original Message- > From: Peter Saint-Andre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:55 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [JDEV] install jabber server > > > Not yet. > > http://docs.jabber.org/general/html/faq.html > > Peter > > -- > Peter Saint-Andre > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sabyasachi Sengupta wrote: > > > > hi all, > > can jabber server be installed in a windows NT/2000 environment... > > If yes can you please tell me how? > > thanks > > best regards > > sabyasachi > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] IRC via jabber.com
> Then a little question... I there any way to use the IRC Transport > being connect/logged in as a Jabber user on the jabber.com server? > (As I understand, this server don't implement an IRC Transport) That is correct. Jabber.com's public server doesn't run the IRC transport. You should use the jabber.org server, instead. I think it has IRC (though I never use it). Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] why?
After reading this email list for 8 months, I believe I have just experienced the first troll! Todd. -Original Message- From: Greg Hookey To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/19/01 6:56 PM Subject: [JDEV] why? Good day, I've been looking over your IM system for a while now and I am wondering why you have made certain design decisions. 1) XMLit's new...it's usefull in some situations, but not this one. Why did you choose it. It's makes now sense. You made your configuration files way too complex. You've used it as your user database in which a file per user is in no fashion scalable and makes your IM system rediculously slow. XML has no place here. Especially in a file per user situation. 2) Why in your new CVS version, try to solve this problem by substituting a relation database for a file system. You must realize that this idea is plain rediculous and does not solve the problem of parsing an XML file per user when this should be realistically a database of such information. I've considering using your product in several projects now and I have always been deterred by these poor design/implementation decisions. A tip, just because a technology is out there doesn't necessarily mean that is is a good solution for a problem. And again, XML doesn't fit the bill. I will continue to watch your progress and I wish you luck in the future. Without a better design, you are truly going to need it. Yours, Greg -- = Greg Hookey Software Engineer Elegant Solutions 464 West 13th Ave Vancouver, B.C. Phone: 604.709.0712 Fax: 604.709.0733 [EMAIL PROTECTED] = ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Server problems
> It's me screwing up something testing my very-beta-beta (!) Jabber > client :-), or the server @jabber.com have some problems this days? The public Jabber server at Jabber.com has had some problems the past few days. It was down several hours today, and several hours intermittently over the past few days. If you're developing a "very-beta-beta" Jabber client, I REALLY wish you would run your own test server, instead of our public server. Or use Jabber.org. At least one of these apparent network attacks on our public server appears to have been an under-development Jabber application gone haywire. When one of the premier Jabber servers in the world goes down because of some client developer's lack of sanitary testing, it hurts the Jabber movement. I'd really hate to have to get medieval and start blocking people who use "unapproved" clients on Jabber.com. > Given the actual structure / network layout of the Jabber "model", are > there any solution for server xyz users if that server go down, apart > from having different accounts on differents server? Not really. You have to have different accounts on different servers. Todd. Todd Bradley - Director of Support Services - Jabber.com, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 303-308-3666 "Software is largely a service industry operating under the persistent but unfounded delusion that it is a manufacturing industry." - Eric Raymond ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: Re[2]: [JDEV] Server problems
> Yes, now it's ok. But the same thing as appened to me various time in > the lasts two days. JabberBot also doesn't work very well now (signal > presence but not responding). Thanks for letting me know. If you notice this in the future, please drop an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someone was sending nasty messages to JabberBot earlier. No, I don't mean the usual foul language that people love sending to JabberBot. I mean malformed XML. When I wrote JabberBot, I naively assumed that it would always be sent messages with legal XML, so it crashed when it got bad XML. Fixed now, as far as I can tell. No that's not an open invitation to try to crash it again. ;-) > Ah! Off course I'm not blaming none of the good people of > jabber.com; just reporting! :) Thank you. And may the force be with you, too. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] File transfer and Jabber
> Again, I disagree. The Jabber architecture is very much like SMTP, and > SMTP servers have been handling "in-band" file transfers for decades. > Even huge ISPs and mail services accept file enclosures, although they > may impose limits on the file size. Yes, but SMTP servers have never pretended to be "instant". If I'm running an INSTANT messaging server (which I am), I want the traffic to be as lightweight as reasonable so that processing and delivery remains as INSTANT as possible. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] searchable?
Have you tried http://support.jabber.com/search.html ? Under "Advanced Search" you can select jdev/jadmin archives. > -Original Message- > From: John Hebert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:28 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [JDEV] searchable? > > > Sure, if you download the archives and use grep. :) > > Seriously, this would really be helpful. I thought Mailman > could be configured to allow keyword searches? > > John Hebert > > 4/23/01 5:34:18 AM, Greg Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Are any of these threaded discussions searchable? > >greg > > > >___ > >jdev mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > > > > -- > John Hebert > System Engineer > http://www.vedalabs.com > Changing your state of mind through sound. > > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] jabber initial problems.
Why are you using Jabber.com's server as your test platform for your new Jabber client? Why aren't you using the development server at Jabber.org or your own server? Todd. > -Original Message- > From: Narahari, Sateesh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:58 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: [JDEV] jabber initial problems. > > > Folks, > > I am trying to write a simple jabber client in C++ using > winsock. When I > send the first stream, jabber replies. Here is the conversation : > > SENT: xmlns="jabber:client > " xmlns:stream="http://etherx.jabber.org/streams"/> > > RECV: xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org > /streams' id='3AED7F0C' xmlns='jabber:client' from='jabber.com'> > > Immediately after this, I discover my connection goes to > CLOSE_WAIT from > ESTABLISHED. And get a response from jabber. And the > connection gets closed. > > I am sending stream to jabber.com. > > Any thoughts?. > > Sateesh > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Something similar to ICQ Active Lists
Sounds a lot like shared groups to me: http://docs.jabber.org/server/html/groups.html > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 9:22 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JDEV] Something similar to ICQ Active Lists > > > Has any thought been put into this concept of having what is > pretty much a mailing list so when you are part of an > "active" list, you can see anybody in that list and their > presence and you can send messages to the list, etc. > > Travis Reeder > Chief Software Architect > ThinkVirtual > > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] File transfers
Yes: http://docs.jabber.org/general/html/protocol.html#NAMESPACES-IQOOB And see the myriad JDEV discussions on this topic in the archive: http://mailman.jabber.org/pipermail/jdev/2001-April/subject.html > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 9:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JDEV] File transfers > > > Is there anything in the protocol that will deal with file transfers? > > Travis Reeder > Chief Software Architect > ThinkVirtual > > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Unreliable?
> Now I'm not sure if this is the server or the client (i'm > using jim mostly)? Or is it just that it's mostly from icq users? Back when I used "real" ICQ, a lot of messages were lost, too. I would blame the ICQ gateway on lost messages. It's pretty unlikely that it's the actual Jabber server or your client. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] not allowing file transfers
That all depends on the Jabber client the users are using. Are you developing your own client? If so, it's up to you to decide when and how users can do file transfers. If not, you're on the wrong email list and should probably be posing this question to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] (if that happens to be the client you're talking about) list. Todd. -Original Message- From: Stijn Opheide To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 5/7/01 5:58 AM Subject: [JDEV] not allowing file transfers Hi, is it possible to prohibit users from sending files to each other with jabber? greetings, Stijn. -- Stijn Opheide mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://bifrost.kotnet.org -- http://cernunos.studentenweb.org ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Strange Packets
Maybe this is a stupid question, but have you already looked into the possibility that one of your users has an offline message for someone at that address and the server-to-server component is trying to deliver it? Todd. > -Original Message- > From: Denny Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:38 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JDEV] Strange Packets > > > Does anyone know why when I start up my jabber server that it starts > sending out packets to kelvinator.websavvy.com? Has anyone else looked > at sniffer traffic of jabber, and are you seeing the same thing? > > Thanks, > -- > Denny Chambers > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] returning all spool directory members
All users? I've never seen such a thing. But this is the code to use to show online users: Note: This works with JCS, but I'm not sure if it works with the open source server. Todd. > -Original Message- > From: Greg Wong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:54 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: [JDEV] returning all spool directory members > > > Can anyone tell me what the jabber protocol > call is to return the users? I can't seem to > find docs on it. > > greg > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Jabber DevZone News - @jabber.org server
FWIW, many of the outtages we've had on Jabber.com have been traced back to users of Gabber 0.8.2 (and older). There's a bug whereby Gabber will go into a rapid reconnection loop and hammer port 5222 with literally thousands of connection attempts in a few seconds. This, in turn, floods our firewall and server and makes it that much harder for Jabber to recover from a hiccup. It's essentially a non-distributed DoS. We block out the offending IP and then things are back to normal. Then I try to find who owns that IP, write them a nice email, and find out that sure enough they use Gabber and they did notice it acting "strangely" at about that same time. The new version of Gabber, 0.8.3, supposedly fixes this bug. As far as having more people run their own servers, I'm all for that! That's one of the most beautiful things about Jabber to me. Everyone who wants can have his own server. Todd. > -Original Message- > From: temas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:36 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Jabber DevZone News - @jabber.org server > > > we're just running into the problem that they have more bandwidth than > us and by targetting a single service they can overwhelm it > quickly and > effeciently so the cookies really do little for us. The > pipes just full > (well rate limitted at least) =) > > --temas > > On 23 May 2001 11:17:43 -0400, Mathew Johnston wrote: > > I assume you've got TCP Syncookies enabled in your kernel (and > > in your /proc files)? :) > > > > I guess it's time that we encouraged that 'distributed' nature of > > jabber to kick in, and have more people run private servers. :) > > > > Mat. > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:35:49AM -0700, Jabber DevZone wrote: > > > @jabber.org server > > > > > > The following was posted by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via the Jabber > DevZone web site (http://dev.jabber.org/): > > > > > > For the past few weeks the server hosting jabber.org has > been under > > > frequent DDoS (Distributed > > > Denial of Service) attacks. The type of attack has been > a SYN flood > > > to port 5222, originating from > > > various networks and most likely compromised hosts. > We're not sure > > > who or why, and don't yet have any > > > information about the abuse, but it's not uncommon for > popular open > > > chat systems to be targeted in > > > such a way (IRC for instance). > > > > > > There are two results of the attacks, one is congesting > the server on > > > port 5222 so that nobody can > > > connect. To combat this, as soon as an attack is recognized we > > > immediately apply ipchains filters to > > > block network access to the box and drop all packets from the > > > offending hosts. The larger problem is > > > that on a few occassions the size of the attack is > greater than and > > > overwhelms the amount of bandwidth allotted to > > > our server (a few T1s). It takes a bit longer, but the local ISP > > > hosting the server calls the > > > upstream provider and have the offending networks > blocked, returning > > > the > > > bandwidth capacity to normal. > > > > > > There have a couple of other service outages recently, due to the > > > development nature of the server > > > and that often a transport will runaway and consume > system resources, > > > bringing the server to a halt. As > > > part of the foundation two new server boxes will be > arriving soon, one > > > for the production-only > > > jabber.org server, and one available to the community for > server and > > > transport/services development and > > > testing. With the server developers getting their own domain > > > (jabelin.org) to [ab]use > > > and the added focus on the quality of services available from the > > > foundation, server uptime and administration should improve :-) > > > > > > One last note is that the service was just updated to the latest > > > release last night. The flash5 > > > and HTTP-tunneling socket support is now available directly on > > > jabber.org. WCS (the Web Client > > > Service) is now configured as well, and will be activated > shortly for > > > testing and experimentation. > > > > > > http://jabber.org/?oid=1502 > > > ___ > > > jdev mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > > ___ > > jdev mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Multiple logins
I definitely like where you're headed with this. As someone else pointed out, Jabber needs much more explanatory errors. Right now, the client knows nothing about the reason for why it was disconnected from the server. Also, it's smart to have a better reconnect timeout algorithm than most clients use. The one I like the most is a geometrically increasing reconnect timer. So, when you first get disconnected, you try to reconnect after 20 seconds. If that doesn't work, then you wait 40 more seconds. If that doesn't work, you wait for 80 more seconds. And so on. That's how the new version of Gabber works now, I'm told (though I haven't tried it myself). Todd. -Original Message- From: Jens Alfke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JDEV] Multiple logins IMHO, if a client is disconnected by the server [receives an and ] it should not automatically attempt to reconnect. There is probably some good reason it was disconnected, and this thread illustrates one of the dangers of automatic reconnects. It'd be better to put up a dialog box with "Reconnect" and "Cancel" buttons and let the user decide. (Having a meaningful error code and message to display in the dialog would be even better, of course.) In the event of a network-level disconnect, where the stream isn't properly closed, automatic reconnect might still be a good idea. It would help if the client could use some kind of OS-specific functionality* to determine whether the network is still up or not if I unplug the Ethernet from my laptop I don't want the client to start an infinite series of reconnect attempts, nor do I want it to start dialing the phone to my ISP without my intervention. Jens * In the case of Mac OS 9 there's an OTTCPWillDial function that's described in some tech note, and in Mac OS X there's a System Configuration framework which is not yet documented but whose [open] source can be found in Darwin. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Request for comments on system using jabber
Title: RE: [JDEV] Request for comments on system using jabber Correct, you can't subscribe to a specific resource. May I offer a few words of sage advice in this area? If personalbuddy becomes very popular and you use the roster/subscription approach, you're going to soon start hurting your server (and it darn well better not be MY server!). I know because I've done this myself with Jabberbot. Jabberbot's roster on Jabber.com is about 10 times the size of the next largest user's roster. Whenever Jabberbot tries to log in now, it causes all kinds of server mayhem because every presence change causes the server to go read and parse rosters of everyone in Jabberbot's roster. This, and the subsequent traffic backups, crash the server at Jabber.com (which is JCS, of course, but I suspect the open source server would have the same problem). That's why I turned Jabberbot off about a month ago. One better approach is to have Jabberbot (or personalbuddy) be a server-side agent that has no roster controlled by the server. Todd. -Original Message-From: Colin Madere [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:02 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: [JDEV] Request for comments on system using jabber Good points, Jens. I don't think you can subscribe just to a resource, though. A nice thing which shouldn't be too much of a change would be to actually have to subscribe to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" rather than just send messages to it. That way you can just remove your subscription to the presence and be done with it :) Know any often updated projects on freshmeat so I can see this work? Colin -Original Message- From: Jens Alfke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [JDEV] Request for comments on system using jabber On Thursday, May 24, 2001, at 03:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] saying "watch x" where x is the name of the package to watch it will send you notification of updates. If you send "ignore x" it will stop sending them. I love the idea of presence/IM based services like this, but I'm worried that we're going to get into a real mess where they're all driven by text messages using various different syntaxes ... which is of course exactly what happened in the e-mail world with list servers. (I just read a news article yesterday about a new AIM based agent for Radiohead fans that sounds like it's running some kind of Eliza-like "natural language" interface. Be very afraid.) In the case of your personalbuddy, I can easily see people later deciding they don't want the notifications anymore but not being able to remember the magic "ignore" command. They'd then get mad at the agent for spamming them. Wouldn't it be cleaner to use the existing Jabber subscription model for this rather than inventing your own? I.e. you subscribe to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"'s status and it will send you messages when x is updated. To stop getting updates, unsubscribe. (The status message in the presence could indicate the current version number.) Of course this requires that you run your own Jabber server at alsutton.com, which you might not be willing or able to do. Is it possible in Jabber to subscribe to a single resource? If so, then perhaps people could subscribe to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x" to get notifications for package x. Jens
RE: [JDEV] Re: Large scale Jabber bots
> > [I've retitled this thread...] Thank you! And boy did I never expect this thread to be of so much interest to people. Jens wrote: > > What, all mailservers?! What about the ones that run > > mailing lists or > > [voluntary] announcements? I've been on music mailing lists > > with thousands > > of subscribers, and I get very useful "what's new" mailings > > from Amazon that > > must have tens of thousands of readers. Well, I agree with the person that pointed out this isn't a use you would normally expect of CLIENT software. You would want some special piece of server-side email software to handle your mailing list. Try using Outlook (or what- ever email program you use) to send out 10,000 messages all at once and let me know how it reacts! ;-) > > > Jabber should probably work > > > the same way in this case (200 users max in a roster or something > > > configurable like that) > > > > > > > > Why on earth should that be a requirement? First off, it > > penalizes people for something that's not their fault. I disagree. Except in unusual circumstances, you only have people in your roster that you know and want to talk to. So, in most cases, it IS the user's fault. I can think of two exceptions, though. First, I have no control over who sends me presence subscription requests and how often they do so. So, someone could write a malicious program that generates 100,000 Jabber accounts and then sends me a subscription request for each one. That's a particularly evil attack you could make on a Jabber server, in fact. You could probably bring down that server, then, by sending alter- nating on/off presence packets from just one of the users in that big roster. Each change in presence forces the server to read and parse that whole roster. Or an alternate attack could be that the program searches through the JUD and just sends a single subscription request to each person in the JUD. Then, it would alternate presence rapidly, forcing the server to read and parse ALL rosters on the server. The second exception is that my Jabber client might automatically send a subscription request to somebody without my knowledge. > > Secondly, it ignores very useful aspects of Jabber for > > information delivery. > > Stock price agents, auction agents, news agents, etc. > I'm very familiar with bots. I also know that the majority of > bots do not > require presence information at all, all users do is query > their services. I agree. Most news bots don't have any need for bidirectional presence. > I'm saying that you can't take protocol decisions made for an > average roster > size of 10 and scale it to a roster size of a quarter > million. That definitely makes a lot of sense. The roster system in Jabber was designed with the idea that a user would have just a hand- ful of friends they're interested in. I would bet the major IM systems have some kind of limits to roster size. Anyone know for sure? I doubt AIM would let me have 10,000 users in my AIM roster. But, no, I am not going to try. Thomas Charron wrote: > Yes. The problem is, the typical c2s componenent takes > some things for > granted, namely, one of them being, that it won't take a > tremendouse amount > of work to do some things. In the case of a jabber 'bot', > that bot should > actually be written as a transport and *NOT* as a client > connecting to the > c2s component. As someone pointed out, the downside of this is portability. It is definitely nice to be able to run your bot from any machine, rather than just from the server, which only a limited number of people have access to. On the other hand, the beauty of Jabber is that you can always run your own server! Nonetheless, I agree that for a bot that is expecting to handle many users on the Jabber system as it's currently designed, a transport (aka agent, aka service) is a better way to go than a client. That was my original point in all of this. Now a bot that's not expected to have a lot of users, such as a doppleganger bot (one that runs in the place of a live user behind a traditional client), might be best as a client. And stpeter wrote: > I have a roster on jabber.com (my [EMAIL PROTECTED] account, which I > used for a few months last year). That roster has about 200 > people in it > and is definitely not the largest roster on the system, so > I'd imagine > that Jabberbot has at least several thousand users in its roster. Yes, as of last week there were a little bit over 10,000 JIDs in Jabberbot's roster. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Request for comments on system using jabber
> In the IM bot realm, the existence of ActiveBuddy > disproves your argument. [...] > Their bots log into AIM or Yahoo just like a > client (and that raises the interesting question > of why AOL isn't trying to block them. Perhaps > they have some kind of special deal.) That is a good question. Maybe they haven't generated enough traffic to be an annoyance yet. Maybe nobody's using it! Todd. ps. Jens, it would be awesome if you changed the formatting of your email replies to be plain old text. It's very hard to read your emails when you reply to someone because your mailer doesn't do standard style text attri- bution. I can never tell what text is yours versus what text you're replying to. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Large rosters + a solution for the commands syntax problem
> 1) Large rosters. I don't see the problem here - why oh why > does the server > have to parse the rosters of all the people that presence is > being SENT to? The way it was explained to me is that the server reads the roster of both the sender and the recipient, so that it can compare the subscription types. That's to prevent someone from falsifying a presence subscrip- tion. I talked about this with a few Jabber.com developers this morning and we all agree that the best approach is probably for bots to be services rather than clients. The downside is that they have to deal with their own rosters and presence, but the upside is that they can have total control over how they do that. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Not recieving messages in client
Have you sent the initial presence packet to the server to let it know you're alive, online, and ready to receive messages? Todd. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 7:46 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JDEV] Not recieving messages in client > > > I am writing a simple client in tcl using the tcl jabberlib. > I can connect, authenticate myself and send messages but i > never recieve > any messages! > Even though i send mesages form winjab to the user connected with my > client, my clients socket never recieves anything(i checked > with a sniffer). > Does a client have to register itself somehow to be able to recieve > messages? > > Regards, > David > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language
> Has there ever been any discussion of a client side scripting > language for > Jabber? I'm thinking of something along the lines of mIRC's scripting > language for the IRC protocol. That was the source of my original interest in the Tcl client (zABBER). My goal was to have a client that had a scripting language interpreter so you could write scripts to do special handling of events. But, alas, it's not that advanced. To answer your question, I don't think there's been serious discussion in the past year about a single "official" Jabber client scripting language. It would probably be impossible to get everyone to agree what that language should be. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language
> If you're the author of zabber and the tcl jabbberlib, i salute you! > I tried for several weeks trying to get JabberCOM, jabberoo > and various > other c/c++ libraries to work, but jabberlib worked almost on > the first try. That's great! But no, I'm not the author of the Jabber Tcl stuff. A guy named "waster" wrote them. I'm just the maintainer of the project on Source Forge (and added some minor features and fixed some bugs). Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language
> I find the idea of scripting within Jabber to be intriguing, > but I'm not > clear on what people want to do with this. Can you provide > some scenarios? 1. When I receive a text message from [EMAIL PROTECTED], I would like a message to automatically be sent back saying, "Yes, I completely agree." 2. When my resource is "WorkJIM" and my status is "*Away" and I receive a text message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "AIM" in it, I want a copy of that message sent to my cell phone email. 3. When I get a message from someone who isn't on my roster, I'd like my client to automatically reply with a message of "Your message was ignored because I don't know you." 4. When I get a subscription request from "*@jabber.com" I want to automatically accept it. But when the subscription request comes from "*@icq.jabber.com" I want to automatically decline it. 5. When I get a text conference invitation from someone in my "Employees" group or my "Coworkers" group and the local time is between 8 and 5, I want my client to automatically accept it. In other cases, I want my client to decline it and send a message to the inviter. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Thoughts on AOL Time Warner
> Has anyone tried to actually sue AOL Time Warner for > monopolistic practices > with respect to their Instant Messaging products and tactics? > > I mean, with AOL *and* ICQ, and their constant changing of > AIM protocol to > defeat interoperability, it sounds like it would be a sure win. You're crazy. AOL doesn't have a monopoly on IM. The fact that Microsoft says THEY have more IM users (whether they're lying or not) illustrates AOL isn't a monopoly. And there's nothing illegal about constantly changing your own proprietary protocol. Maybe it's not the best use of your time, but it's certainly not illegal. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Jabber - Scripting Language
> Number 5 on your list could be interesting. Any ideas of how > to find the > time zone difference between the server and a client? No, I have no idea how to ask the server what time it thinks it is. Todd. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] What exactly do you do with the IQ event?
Sounds like you need to spend a lot more quality time with the Jabber Programmer's Guide: http://docs.jabber.org/jpg/html/main.html May I recommend Chapter 9? http://docs.jabber.org/jpg/html/main.html#CH-IQNS > -Original Message- > From: John Meyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:05 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [JDEV] What exactly do you do with the IQ event? > > > Hi, I'm writing my own jabber client and I've looked up and down the > documentation for this, but I just can't seem to get it. What is the > JabberIQ event for, and what's an IQ for? > > John Meyer > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Programmer > > > If we didn't have Microsoft, we'd have to blame ourselves for > all of our > programs crashing > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev > ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
