Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
What are really talking about...?? I'm not a Microsoft follower either but in Fact I love Java and Oracle stuff but I think that Microsoft is gonna Kick some @$$ with Its C# ( C Sharp ) Language I've been using it for a few months is it amazing the things that you can do with it specially since I found a way to use it for Jabber and On linux machines BetCh'all Microsoft don't know about that He He Peace all. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
Dixon Canario wrote: > What are really talking about...?? > I'm not a Microsoft follower either but in Fact I love Java > and Oracle stuff but I think that Microsoft is gonna Kick > some @$$ with Its C# ( C Sharp ) Language I've been using > it for a few months is it amazing the things that you can > do with it specially since I found a way to use it for > Jabber and On linux machines BetCh'all Microsoft don't > know about that He He > I am not completely sure here, but I don't think the C# language is going to kick any part of anyones anatomy. It is proably a very useful language, but you can't keep people (industries) from jumping to different "standards" every few years like microsoft intends to. Java has gathered speed very lowly IMHO, and it still hasn't become the end all be all of programming that it was touted as. C is still one of the most used languages. Why? It has a track record, it has huge pool of developers with exprience ( exprience is a key to success ). It has a well established libaray base and it doesn't change its core every week to fit the trends. What would happen if every time there was a change in light bulb technology the manufactures changed there components, different bulb sizes, different fixtures, think of all the money they could make. Light bulbs and fixtures are cheap too in comparison to what Microsoft is doing to us. I haven't seen any facts, but I would guess that on the average it takes 3 years to become good at a language, not great, good. Microsoft seems to think that just about the time someone is getting good at something everyone should shift to THEIR latest idea of the best thing. Before I go any furher I need to make it clear that I run a Win2k machine for my personal/work use so I am not an anti MS zealot. I think as developers we should really evaluate what the impact of each new language is on the industry as a whole, not just our own personal opinions. I love computers and I think they should be easy to use and fun to use. I also think developers shouldn't have to fight over what to write something in and if they do it should be a limited set of languages not a grocery list. Selection is good when it comes to food, which is fast to make and easy to sell for the most part, but software isn't. Software is a pain in the neck and it is one of the more difficult things to do on some levels ( the please everyone level being the biggest ). As for the original post about the relationship with .NET: .NET is an attempt by Microsoft to appear to be a team player when in fact they intend to close the loop in the future. They claim compliance with SOAP and XML, for now that is true, this paragraph leads me to think they do not intend to stick with these standards. The last two sentences IMHO suggest they are going to change them in the near future. "HailStorm is the user-centric architecture and set of services for .NET that deliver personally relevant information through the Internet to a user, to software running on the user's behalf, or to devices working for the user. HailStorm services are accessed through SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol) and XML (eXtensible Markup Language), which are open access technologies: they can be called from any network-connected device that supports SOAP, regardless of operating system or service provider. SOAP and XML are the open Internet standards Microsoft has helped champion throughout the first phase of the .NET rollout. HailStorm is the next logical step: Microsoft began by encouraging the general standards and introducing the first Web services tools and infrastructure. Now were leading the way to the first set of compelling Web services." http://www.microsoft.com/net/hailstorm.asp I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back SOAP and XML and let .NET .DIE Aaron Johnson > > Peace all. > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
Aaron Johnson wrote: > I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back SOAP > and XML and let .NET .DIE FWIW, my rant on HailStorm may be found here: http://www.saint-andre.com/journal/2001-03-28.html Shall we start a JabberPolitics mailing list? :) Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
>I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back SOAP >and XML and let .NET .DIE Wow, I can honestly say I've never heard such an ignorant statement in my life. Let me put the statement in perspective for people who are not up to par with .NET.. "I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back small peices of wood made so we can pick our teeth, and LET TOOTHPICKS DIE.." Shesh.. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
> From: "Thomas Charron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:38:25 -0400 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dixon Canario" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET? > >> I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back SOAP >> and XML and let .NET .DIE > > > Wow, I can honestly say I've never heard such an ignorant statement in > my life. Let me put the statement in perspective for people who are not up > to par with .NET.. > > "I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back small > peices of wood made so we can pick our teeth, and LET TOOTHPICKS DIE.." > > Shesh.. > Shouldn't that be "sheesh"? Or is that "shush"??? Oh, and I don't use toothpicks... any chance of letting us in on how you see .NET, SOAP and Jabber developing - sorry to be so slow -:) ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
From: "David Bovill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET? > > "I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back small > > peices of wood made so we can pick our teeth, and LET TOOTHPICKS DIE.." > > Shesh.. > Shouldn't that be "sheesh"? Or is that "shush"??? HeHe.. Sheesh. If thats really a word.. > Oh, and I don't use toothpicks... any chance of letting us in on how you see > .NET, SOAP and Jabber developing - sorry to be so slow -:) It depends on which side of Jabber your looking at. If you look at it as a transport for carrying an XML payload to an enpoint, aka, a messaging middleware, then Jabber could be used as a means of transporting SOAP calls 'over the wire' between clients and transports. This would serve as a replacement for HTTP at that end. On the other hand, if you look at Jabber as an Instant Messaging platform, then SOAP via any of the implemented over the wire protocols (HTTP, SMTP, etc..) can serve as the messaging layer for Client to server communications, or even an alternate means of server to server communications. This would provide for the ability for any given transport to be run practically anywhere, under any environment that supports SOAP. If you look at it, the IQ packets are basically RPC calls MADE over the Jabber 'over the wire' protocol. I would almost say if someone created a client socket manager whos sole job was to serve as a gateway for SOAP requests, it would allows clients to have MUCH greater flexibility, due to the fact that they could now take advantage of the many over the wire protocols SOAP current has, allows things such as firewall traversing, etc, to happen transparent to the Jabber system itself.. Remember, though all of this, that when I use the term SOAP, you can interchange it at any point in time with '.NET'. '.NET' is simply the entire idea of making the network servers smarter, so they do the work, and can extend things in a centralized manner. Not a new idea. About to Microsoft saw this. C# is simply a language that allows Microsoft to use a Java like language under its own environment (Ok, their own terms..). An example onw can look at it the Perl.NET initiative, by activestate, which is simply Perl bundled together with some SOAP modules. This also allows previously incompatible systems to talk to eachother in a generic way. An example of this would be C# and the capability for it to serve up COM interfaces and SOAP interfaces without any effort at all.. This is why I made the statement I did. It was simply stating we should go with one, and let that same thing die.. 8-).. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
> > >>> I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back SOAP >>> and XML and let .NET .DIE >> >> >> Wow, I can honestly say I've never heard such an ignorant statement in >> my life. Let me put the statement in perspective for people who are not up >> to par with .NET.. >> >> "I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything we back small >> peices of wood made so we can pick our teeth, and LET TOOTHPICKS DIE.." >> >> Shesh.. >> > > Shouldn't that be "sheesh"? Or is that "shush"??? > > Oh, and I don't use toothpicks... any chance of letting us in on how you see > .NET, SOAP and Jabber developing - sorry to be so slow -:) > Heh, just my 2c... the initial posting was enthusiastic and hollow. give us an example. else we cant tell an insightful comment from the new age of propaganda: 'spamming good technology mail groups'. Sorry for the conspiricy theory: i've no doubt .NET will be great else MS wouldn't back it so hard. but tell us why. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
Title: RE: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET? Can you guys please take this elsewhere unless you are going to give explicit examples of how Jabber development will relate to .NET. Thanks P.S. Just because a company with a lot of money backs something, doesn't mean it is great. > -Original Message- > From: Oliver George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET? > > > > > > > >>> I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything > we back SOAP > >>> and XML and let .NET .DIE > >> > >> > >> Wow, I can honestly say I've never heard such an ignorant > statement in > >> my life. Let me put the statement in perspective for > people who are not up > >> to par with .NET.. > >> > >> "I suggest if we as an industry are going to back anything > we back small > >> peices of wood made so we can pick our teeth, and LET > TOOTHPICKS DIE.." > >> > >> Shesh.. > >> > > > > Shouldn't that be "sheesh"? Or is that "shush"??? > > > > Oh, and I don't use toothpicks... any chance of letting us > in on how you see > > .NET, SOAP and Jabber developing - sorry to be so slow -:) > > > Heh, just my 2c... the initial posting was enthusiastic and hollow. > give us an example. else we cant tell an insightful comment from the > new age of propaganda: 'spamming good technology mail groups'. Sorry > for the conspiricy theory: i've no doubt .NET will be great else MS > wouldn't back it so hard. but tell us why. > > > ___ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev >
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
RE: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?From: Colin Madere Subject: RE: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET? Can you guys please take this elsewhere unless you are going to give explicit examples of how Jabber development will relate to .NET. Thanks Err, I believe I did earlier. P.S. Just because a company with a lot of money backs something, doesn't mean it is great. And just becouse it's backed by alot of money, doesn't mean it isn't. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Relationship with .NET?
[Citation date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:49:35 +1000] > Oliver == Oliver George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Oliver> Sorry for the conspiricy theory: i've no doubt .NET will Oliver> be great else MS wouldn't back it so hard. but tell us Oliver> why. I'll second the request to take the .NET discussion offline. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered." - Nelson Mandela [A Long Walk to Freedom] ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
