Re: JESS: License question
Hi, Thanks for the replies, but neither actually got around to answering the question regarding Jess - is it a straight commercial product? Is it GPL? I am quite surprised at the tone of the replies, and I must assume that my hypothetical (to use Jess in a commercial product, after removing the 'Sandia' messages) was taken as a statement of intent. No so - I just don't understand the license/copyright position, and was using the hypothetical to try and get a handle on it. As to : "If you're not smart enough to see someone else's code and then go create some code of your own to do the same thing...", this technique is sometimes referred to as reinventing the wheel - rarely a good thing, even in the food industry. Cheers, Danny. "James C. Owen" wrote: > Amen. But ONLY if the organization (person) who owned the copyright actually wanted >to go to the bother and trouble of doing so. It is my understanding that prior to >the infamous Lotus/whoever case that the copyright laws were such that you only had >to change 10% of the existing code to > make it your own. That involved changing only the header file in some code. >However, after the Lotus case "look and feel" became an important factor. > > Also, if you will recall, Borland dBASE III and dBASE II lost their copyright >because a large percentage of their code came from some public domain code that they >did not acknowledge in their original copyright application. For a period of about >90 days, we all made legal copies of dBASE > III. > > Besides all that, it shows a total lack of competence to blatantly copy someone >else's code. If you're not smart enough to look at what someone else has done and >then create your own, you should change your line of business; say, become a lawyer >or a used car salesman. If you're not smart > enough to see someone else's code and then go create some code of your own to do the >same thing, then maybe you should consider a career in the food service industry. :-) > > "Lawrence D. DeVooght" wrote: > > > You would "stand" about the same place if you took a best seller, or the galleys >of an upcoming best seller, corrected any typos, rearranged some paragraphs and >chapters to suite your aesthetic flow and changed some context to make it more in >line with how you think the story should go. > > > > You would "stand" to get you butt sued off. > > > > Lawrence D. DeVooght > > Savant Information Systems > > Kenwood, California > > > > Those who cheat time must accept a proportional risk of failure. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Danny Ayers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 7:35 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject:JESS: License question > > > > Hi, > > I'm afraid I'm no good at legal jargon, and I would like to know what > > the license/copyright situation is with Jess. The source couldn't be > > much more open (ref. the bug fix postings on this group), but the > > standard package gives a 'Sandia' ownership message. I am a little > > confused - if for example I was to take the Alpha code, debug it and > > remove all copyright notices, then release a commercial product that > > incorporated said code, how would I stand legally? (I have no such > > intentions BTW). > > If someone could kindly translate this into natural language for me, I > > would be most grateful. > > Cheers, > > Danny. > > -- > > > > Alternate email : > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > "one on two and plenty of through" > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the > > list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > > > > --- > > > >Part 1.2Type: application/ms-tnef > >Encoding: base64 > > -- > > ttfn > > IHN > Jim > > - > James C. Owen > Knowledge-Based Systems Corporation > 4817 Buckskin Drive > Fort Worth, Texas 76137 > > 817.314.0584 Office > 817.314.0585 FAX > 817.247.8976 Cellular > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.kbsc.com > > "I Love You ... I Love You ... I Love You. -God" > (Seen on a billboard in DFW MetroPlex.) > > - > To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the > list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - - To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list (use your own address!) List problems? Notify [EMA
RE: JESS: License question
How do I get off this list anyone? Thanks > -Original Message- > From: Danny Ayers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 10:35 AM > To: Jess > Subject: JESS: License question > > Hi, > I'm afraid I'm no good at legal jargon, and I would like to know what > the license/copyright situation is with Jess. The source couldn't be > much more open (ref. the bug fix postings on this group), but the > standard package gives a 'Sandia' ownership message. I am a little > confused - if for example I was to take the Alpha code, debug it and > remove all copyright notices, then release a commercial product that > incorporated said code, how would I stand legally? (I have no such > intentions BTW). > If someone could kindly translate this into natural language for me, I > would be most grateful. > Cheers, > Danny. > -- > > > Alternate email : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "one on two and plenty of through" > > - > To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users > [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the > list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - - To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Re: JESS: License question
Amen. But ONLY if the organization (person) who owned the copyright actually wanted to go to the bother and trouble of doing so. It is my understanding that prior to the infamous Lotus/whoever case that the copyright laws were such that you only had to change 10% of the existing code to make it your own. That involved changing only the header file in some code. However, after the Lotus case "look and feel" became an important factor. Also, if you will recall, Borland dBASE III and dBASE II lost their copyright because a large percentage of their code came from some public domain code that they did not acknowledge in their original copyright application. For a period of about 90 days, we all made legal copies of dBASE III. Besides all that, it shows a total lack of competence to blatantly copy someone else's code. If you're not smart enough to look at what someone else has done and then create your own, you should change your line of business; say, become a lawyer or a used car salesman. If you're not smart enough to see someone else's code and then go create some code of your own to do the same thing, then maybe you should consider a career in the food service industry. :-) "Lawrence D. DeVooght" wrote: > You would "stand" about the same place if you took a best seller, or the galleys of >an upcoming best seller, corrected any typos, rearranged some paragraphs and chapters >to suite your aesthetic flow and changed some context to make it more in line with >how you think the story should go. > > You would "stand" to get you butt sued off. > > Lawrence D. DeVooght > Savant Information Systems > Kenwood, California > > Those who cheat time must accept a proportional risk of failure. > > -Original Message- > From: Danny Ayers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 7:35 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject:JESS: License question > > Hi, > I'm afraid I'm no good at legal jargon, and I would like to know what > the license/copyright situation is with Jess. The source couldn't be > much more open (ref. the bug fix postings on this group), but the > standard package gives a 'Sandia' ownership message. I am a little > confused - if for example I was to take the Alpha code, debug it and > remove all copyright notices, then release a commercial product that > incorporated said code, how would I stand legally? (I have no such > intentions BTW). > If someone could kindly translate this into natural language for me, I > would be most grateful. > Cheers, > Danny. > -- > > Alternate email : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "one on two and plenty of through" > > - > To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the > list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - > > --- > >Part 1.2Type: application/ms-tnef >Encoding: base64 -- ttfn IHN Jim - James C. Owen Knowledge-Based Systems Corporation 4817 Buckskin Drive Fort Worth, Texas 76137 817.314.0584 Office 817.314.0585 FAX 817.247.8976 Cellular mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.kbsc.com "I Love You ... I Love You ... I Love You. -God" (Seen on a billboard in DFW MetroPlex.) - To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
RE: JESS: License question
You would "stand" about the same place if you took a best seller, or the galleys of an upcoming best seller, corrected any typos, rearranged some paragraphs and chapters to suite your aesthetic flow and changed some context to make it more in line with how you think the story should go. You would "stand" to get you butt sued off. Lawrence D. DeVooght Savant Information Systems Kenwood, California Those who cheat time must accept a proportional risk of failure. -Original Message- From: Danny Ayers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 7:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:JESS: License question Hi, I'm afraid I'm no good at legal jargon, and I would like to know what the license/copyright situation is with Jess. The source couldn't be much more open (ref. the bug fix postings on this group), but the standard package gives a 'Sandia' ownership message. I am a little confused - if for example I was to take the Alpha code, debug it and remove all copyright notices, then release a commercial product that incorporated said code, how would I stand legally? (I have no such intentions BTW). If someone could kindly translate this into natural language for me, I would be most grateful. Cheers, Danny. -- Alternate email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] "one on two and plenty of through" - To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] - application/ms-tnef
Re: JESS: License question
Note: I'm not a legal expert either, not do I speak for Sandia. I'm just the author of Jess. I wanted Jess to be open-source and free. Sandia wanted it to be copyrighted and pay-for-use. Negotiations have been strained. I think the current situation is best summed up as "Jess is free for academic use; commercial users must arrange a license with Sandia." Contact Ann Freundendahl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to talk about licensing Jess. I think Danny Ayers wrote: > > Hi, > I'm afraid I'm no good at legal jargon, and I would like to know what > the license/copyright situation is with Jess. The source couldn't be > much more open (ref. the bug fix postings on this group), but the > standard package gives a 'Sandia' ownership message. I am a little > confused - if for example I was to take the Alpha code, debug it and > remove all copyright notices, then release a commercial product that > incorporated said code, how would I stand legally? (I have no such > intentions BTW). > If someone could kindly translate this into natural language for me, I > would be most grateful. > Cheers, > Danny. > -- > > > Alternate email : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "one on two and plenty of through" > > - > To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' > in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the > list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - > > - Ernest Friedman-Hill Distributed Systems ResearchPhone: (925) 294-2154 Sandia National LabsFAX: (925) 294-2234 Org. 8920, MS 9214 [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 969 http://herzberg.ca.sandia.gov Livermore, CA 94550 - To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list. List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
