[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
> -Original Message- > From: Phil Glatz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 11:14 AM > To: jQuery (English) > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > I use the Microsoft Virtual PC: > http://pingv.com/blog/glhines/200712/browser-testing-ie6 > I use that as well. I remember at one point people were wondering how isolated the different IE's were when installed on the same machine (considering the number of hooks IE has into the OS). Using a VM you are sure it's IE6 and only IE6. Jim
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
cfdvlpr wrote: > > How do you test in both IE 6 and IE 7? Are you able to install both > > these on the same machine or do you have more than one machine? I use the Microsoft Virtual PC: http://pingv.com/blog/glhines/200712/browser-testing-ie6 It works very well, and since it has its own registry space, there is a good degree of isolation from your primary setup. I agree that testing on IE 5 makes little sense in most cases. I also use Firefox as my primary development platform, since it is so rich in development tools. I use Firebug, DOM Inspector, and View Formatted Source all the time. Apps that pass validation and work in Firefox generally will work in IE, with little or no tweaking, if you code conservatively (which also makes for more stable sites). You can't ignore IE, since it is the dominant browser, but I've had no problem using Firefox as my primary target.
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Chicks dig it. On Jan 3, 4:17 pm, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Ream Men" just have to know... > > How does developing in FF increase you "reproductivity" ? > > :o) > > Rick > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Eridius > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:58 PM > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > I would never in a million years choose to develop in IE first and then FF, > > there are just so many tools in FF that increases my reproductivity it would > > be slower for me to try to debug first in IE for the issue that FF would let > > me catch easier and faster.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
That is what I use, just be aware the the "filters" don't work. So if you are doing a png fix, it won't work in the standalones. On 1/4/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > You can give this a shot: > > http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE > > Allows you to install multiple versions of IE on your machine...all the > way > back to IE 4. > > -Original Message- > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of cfdvlpr > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:08 PM > To: jQuery (English) > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > How do you test in both IE 6 and IE 7? Are you able to install both these > on the same machine or do you have more than one machine? > > We do most of our testing for IE 6 and IE 7 using browsercam. > Unfortunately, there's no debugging tools on their machines. :( > > On Jan 3, 2:20 pm, "Jeffrey Kretz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... > > But for me, it's no problem to test new applications in IE6, IE7, FF2, > > Opera and (ever since I picked up a Mac) Safari. > > > ... > > JK > > > > > -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
You can give this a shot: http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE Allows you to install multiple versions of IE on your machine...all the way back to IE 4. -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cfdvlpr Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:08 PM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite How do you test in both IE 6 and IE 7? Are you able to install both these on the same machine or do you have more than one machine? We do most of our testing for IE 6 and IE 7 using browsercam. Unfortunately, there's no debugging tools on their machines. :( On Jan 3, 2:20 pm, "Jeffrey Kretz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > But for me, it's no problem to test new applications in IE6, IE7, FF2, > Opera and (ever since I picked up a Mac) Safari. > ... > JK >
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
lmao... I did not catch that; too funny! On 1/3/08, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "Ream Men" just have to know... > > How does developing in FF increase you "reproductivity" ? > > :o) > > Rick > > > -Original Message- > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Eridius > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:58 PM > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > > > > > I would never in a million years choose to develop in IE first and then > FF, > > there are just so many tools in FF that increases my reproductivity it > would > > be slower for me to try to debug first in IE for the issue that FF would > let > > me catch easier and faster. > > > > > > > > -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
"Ream Men" just have to know... How does developing in FF increase you "reproductivity" ? :o) Rick > -Original Message- > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Eridius > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:58 PM > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > I would never in a million years choose to develop in IE first and then FF, > there are just so many tools in FF that increases my reproductivity it would > be slower for me to try to debug first in IE for the issue that FF would let > me catch easier and faster. > >
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
It's silly to rail against "standards." Yes, we still have to support IE6. But IE8 is moving towards standards compliance and eventually that's what we'll be writing for. We know how this game works. New features show up in new browsers, but we can't use them for a few years until the new browsers are old, or until someone writes a library that gives the old browsers the new standards. Now that a Google employee has made a Canvas emulator for IE, we have nifty things like Flot for jQuery. Learn to write for standards now, and you'll have a leg-up later. Or just wait and learn later. Doesn't matter to me. But there's a reason to encourage all the browsers to aim at the standards.
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Who are the 1.6% of people using IE5? Do those people actually expect Web 2.0 sites to work?
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Well, this whole topic is off-topic, since none of this is specifically about jQuery, just debugging in general. But I like to waste time as much as the next person. Too bad the flames didn't take. Larry On Jan 3, 3:14 pm, "Alexandre Plennevaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To get back on topic, there is another free javascript debugger i > mentioned > here:http://www.pixeline.be/blog/2007/free-javascript-debugger-for-interne... > > On Jan 3, 2008 10:54 PM, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > That's what I do. But I focus on making it work in IE first. Then I retrofit > > any minor changes needed for Firefox. > > > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:30 PM > > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about > > dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to > > code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust > > for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know > > the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal > > with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just > > have to deal." > > > I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test > > in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be > > fine. > > > Just my two cents. > > > On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Larry... > > > > I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into > > > other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" > > > browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary > > browser. > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > Behalf Of McLars > > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM > > > To: jQuery (English) > > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, > > > 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since > > I > > > develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of > > our > > > intranet) users are on. > > > > I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to > > > develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, > > > Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs > > > while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in > > > IE--where the debugging is limited. > > > > That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) > > > > Larry > > > > Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > > > > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > > > > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > > > > available. > > > > > JK > > > > > _ > > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > > > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > > > > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > > > > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > > > >http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > > > > 2BCust > > > > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > > > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > > > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > > > > alert() > > > > > Christof > > > > > -- > > > > Benjamin Sterling > > > >http://www.KenzoMedia.com > > > >http://www.KenzoHosting.com > > > >http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > > -- > > Benjamin Sterling > >http://www.KenzoMedia.com > >http://www.KenzoHosting.com > >http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > -- > Alexandre Plennevaux > LAb[au] > > http://www.lab-au.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
I would never in a million years choose to develop in IE first and then FF, there are just so many tools in FF that increases my reproductivity it would be slower for me to try to debug first in IE for the issue that FF would let me catch easier and faster. Andy Matthews-4 wrote: > > > Larry... > > I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into > other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" > browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary > browser. > > > -Original Message- > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of McLars > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM > To: jQuery (English) > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, > 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since > I > develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of > our > intranet) users are on. > > I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to > develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, > Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs > while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in > IE--where the debugging is limited. > > That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) > > Larry > > Jeffrey Kretz wrote: >> There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express >> Edition has a very good debugger: >> >> >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx >> >> >> >> I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger >> available. >> >> >> >> JK >> >> >> >> _ >> >> From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling >> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM >> To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com >> Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite >> >> >> >> In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera >> (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera >> has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] >> >> http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A >> 2BCust >> omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 >> >> On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? >> > Is there anything you'd reccomend? >> >> alert() >> >> Christof >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Benjamin Sterling >> http://www.KenzoMedia.com >> http://www.KenzoHosting.com >> http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Debug-Tools---Charles%2C-DebugBar%2C-Firebug-Lite-tp14602012s27240p14607913.html Sent from the jQuery General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
I can understand that. But in my architecture, I build some basic classes and functions that sit at the bottom of my library and are used by ALL other implementations. My core library (which sits on top of jQuery) has about 50 core methods and every single one of those are tested, tweaked and tested again on my 5 main browsers, practically line-by-line. It took me about a month to dial it in. The remainder is all built on top of it and while I do test on other browsers, it's nowhere near as extensive (as it doesn't need to be). JK -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLars Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:04 PM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite Benjamin, I think (hope) we all test occasionally on all the browsers, while we're developing. But, frankly, I'm not going to test every single line, or block, or function, or whatever, on every browser. The reality is that I have one browser I write the bulk of my code with and all the others are just used for testing and tweaking. As for the "standards" part, that is flame bait for me. Standards don't mean poop to me. They're for idealists. I live in the real world, and I don't have religeon or an agenda. :) Larry On Jan 3, 2:29 pm, "Benjamin Sterling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about > dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to > code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust > for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know > the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal > with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just > have to deal." > > I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test > in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be > fine. > > Just my two cents. > > On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Larry... > > > I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into > > other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" > > browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary > > browser. > > > -----Original Message- > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of McLars > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM > > To: jQuery (English) > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, > > 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since > > I > > develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of > > our > > intranet) users are on. > > > I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to > > develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, > > Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs > > while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in > > IE--where the debugging is limited. > > > That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) > > > Larry > > > Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > > > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > > > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > > > available. > > > > JK > > > > _ > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > > > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > > > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > > >http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > > > 2BCust > > > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > > > alert() > > > > Christof > > > > -- > > > Benjamin Sterling > > >http://www.KenzoMedia.com > > >http://www.KenzoHosting.com > > >http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > -- > Benjamin Sterlinghttp://www.KenzoMedia.comhttp://www.KenzoHosting.comhttp://www.benja minsterling.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
You can install earlier versions of IE with this: http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE That's what I use. JK -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cfdvlpr Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:08 PM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite How do you test in both IE 6 and IE 7? Are you able to install both these on the same machine or do you have more than one machine? We do most of our testing for IE 6 and IE 7 using browsercam. Unfortunately, there's no debugging tools on their machines. :( On Jan 3, 2:20 pm, "Jeffrey Kretz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > But for me, it's no problem to test new applications in IE6, IE7, FF2, Opera > and (ever since I picked up a Mac) Safari. > ... > JK >
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Benjamin, I think (hope) we all test occasionally on all the browsers, while we're developing. But, frankly, I'm not going to test every single line, or block, or function, or whatever, on every browser. The reality is that I have one browser I write the bulk of my code with and all the others are just used for testing and tweaking. As for the "standards" part, that is flame bait for me. Standards don't mean poop to me. They're for idealists. I live in the real world, and I don't have religeon or an agenda. :) Larry On Jan 3, 2:29 pm, "Benjamin Sterling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about > dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to > code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust > for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know > the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal > with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just > have to deal." > > I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test > in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be > fine. > > Just my two cents. > > On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Larry... > > > I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into > > other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" > > browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary > > browser. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of McLars > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM > > To: jQuery (English) > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, > > 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since > > I > > develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of > > our > > intranet) users are on. > > > I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to > > develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, > > Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs > > while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in > > IE--where the debugging is limited. > > > That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) > > > Larry > > > Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > > > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > > > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > > > available. > > > > JK > > > > _ > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > > > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > > > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > > >http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > > > 2BCust > > > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > > > alert() > > > > Christof > > > > -- > > > Benjamin Sterling > > >http://www.KenzoMedia.com > > >http://www.KenzoHosting.com > > >http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > -- > Benjamin > Sterlinghttp://www.KenzoMedia.comhttp://www.KenzoHosting.comhttp://www.benjaminsterling.com- > Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
There is a three-IE package, I believe, that runs multiple IEs under Wine in Linux. I know that a few people use that. --TT On Jan 3, 3:07 pm, cfdvlpr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How do you test in both IE 6 and IE 7? Are you able to install both > these on the same machine or do you have more than one machine? > > We do most of our testing for IE 6 and IE 7 using browsercam. > Unfortunately, there's no debugging tools on their machines. :( > > On Jan 3, 2:20 pm, "Jeffrey Kretz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... > > > But for me, it's no problem to test new applications in IE6, IE7, FF2, Opera > > and (ever since I picked up a Mac) Safari. > > ... > > JK
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
personally, i use VMWare and have a virtual windows XP installation for IE6 in 1024x768 resolution mode. The "standard" user. There is an opensource alternative to VMWare which i heard gets the job done: virtualBox: http://www.virtualbox.org/ HTH Alexandre
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
How do you test in both IE 6 and IE 7? Are you able to install both these on the same machine or do you have more than one machine? We do most of our testing for IE 6 and IE 7 using browsercam. Unfortunately, there's no debugging tools on their machines. :( On Jan 3, 2:20 pm, "Jeffrey Kretz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > But for me, it's no problem to test new applications in IE6, IE7, FF2, Opera > and (ever since I picked up a Mac) Safari. > ... > JK >
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
As far as cross-platform compatibility, the two things that helped me the most were a) using jQuery as a library and b) Koch's site http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/compatibility.html for anything custom. But for me, it's no problem to test new applications in IE6, IE7, FF2, Opera and (ever since I picked up a Mac) Safari. A good programming architecture will be built on top of small bite-sized pieces of reusable code, so just test each piece separately. You can have each browser opened in a window at the same time, make a change to the code and refresh each browser one after the other and ensure everything acts the same. My $0.02. JK _ From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:30 PM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just have to deal." I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be fine. Just my two cents. On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Larry... I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary browser. -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLars Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since I develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of our intranet) users are on. I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in IE--where the debugging is limited. That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) Larry Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > available. > > > > JK > > > > _ > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto: jquery-en@googlegroups.com <mailto:jquery-en@googlegroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > 2BCust > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > alert() > > Christof > > > > > -- > Benjamin Sterling > http://www.KenzoMedia.com <http://www.KenzoMedia.com> > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > http://www.benjaminsterling.com -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com <http://www.benjaminsterling.com>
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
To get back on topic, there is another free javascript debugger i mentioned here: http://www.pixeline.be/blog/2007/free-javascript-debugger-for-internet-explorer/ On Jan 3, 2008 10:54 PM, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > That's what I do. But I focus on making it work in IE first. Then I retrofit > any minor changes needed for Firefox. > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:30 PM > > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about > dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to > code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust > for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know > the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal > with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just > have to deal." > > I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test > in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be > fine. > > Just my two cents. > > > On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Larry... > > > > I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into > > other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" > > browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary > browser. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of McLars > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM > > To: jQuery (English) > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > > > IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, > > 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since > I > > develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of > our > > intranet) users are on. > > > > I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to > > develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, > > Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs > > while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in > > IE--where the debugging is limited. > > > > That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) > > > > Larry > > > > Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > > > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > > > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > > > available. > > > > > > > > > > > > JK > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > > > > > > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > > > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > > > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > > > > > http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > > > 2BCust > > > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > > > > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > > > > > alert() > > > > > > Christof > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Benjamin Sterling > > > http://www.KenzoMedia.com > > > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > > > http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > Benjamin Sterling > http://www.KenzoMedia.com > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > http://www.benjaminsterling.com -- Alexandre Plennevaux LAb[au] http://www.lab-au.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
That's what I do. But I focus on making it work in IE first. Then I retrofit any minor changes needed for Firefox. _ From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:30 PM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just have to deal." I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be fine. Just my two cents. On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Larry... I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary browser. -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLars Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since I develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of our intranet) users are on. I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in IE--where the debugging is limited. That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) Larry Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > available. > > > > JK > > > > _ > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto: <mailto:jquery-en@googlegroups.com> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > 2BCust > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > alert() > > Christof > > > > > -- > Benjamin Sterling > http://www.KenzoMedia.com <http://www.KenzoMedia.com> > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > http://www.benjaminsterling.com -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com <http://www.benjaminsterling.com>
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Not trying to flame bait here, but I really don't see what so hard about dealing with ALL browsers at once. I hear all the time how hard it is to code for IE and, although I dot come across issues that I need to adjust for, I never feel that I can't do something with IE. I guess if you know the limitations going into a development of a site it is easier to deal with. I just don't get the "Build for IE and every other browsers will just have to deal." I say grab a copy of each browser you want to support, open each up and test in each as you go. Stick to "basic" standards and everything should be fine. Just my two cents. On 1/3/08, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Larry... > > I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into > other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" > browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary > browser. > > > -Original Message- > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of McLars > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM > To: jQuery (English) > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, > 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since > I > develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of > our > intranet) users are on. > > I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to > develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, > Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs > while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in > IE--where the debugging is limited. > > That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) > > Larry > > Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > > > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > > available. > > > > > > > > JK > > > > > > > > _ > > > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > > > http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > > 2BCust > > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > > > alert() > > > > Christof > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Benjamin Sterling > > http://www.KenzoMedia.com > > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > > http://www.benjaminsterling.com > > > -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Larry... I'm RIGHT there with you. Better to develop in IE, then move forward into other browsers. Better than getting cool code working with a "fringe" browser, then finding out it doesn't work correctly in the primary browser. -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLars Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since I develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of our intranet) users are on. I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in IE--where the debugging is limited. That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) Larry Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express > Edition has a very good debugger: > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > available. > > > > JK > > > > _ > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera > (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera > has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A > 2BCust > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > alert() > > Christof > > > > > -- > Benjamin Sterling > http://www.KenzoMedia.com > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
IEDeveloperToolbar is somewhat helpful, but kinda flaky. Honestly, though, 99% of the time I just use alert(). I have Firebug, but never use it since I develop on IE. As you said, that's what the vast majority of (and all of our intranet) users are on. I know that is contrary to how many develop, but I feel it's better to develop on the weaker and more popular platform. If it works on IE, FF, Opera, and Safari are usually pretty close. It's better to find the bugs while you work, rather than build a lot of stuff only to find it fail in IE--where the debugging is limited. That's just my personal choice, but I don't have very many bugs. ;) Larry Jeffrey Kretz wrote: > There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express Edition > has a very good debugger: > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx > > > > I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger > available. > > > > JK > > > > _ > > From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM > To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com > Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite > > > > In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera (IE > and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera has a nice > Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] > > http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A2BCust > omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 > > On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > alert() > > Christof > > > > > -- > Benjamin Sterling > http://www.KenzoMedia.com > http://www.KenzoHosting.com > http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
I'm assuming you're at least using firebug lite so that you can hit F12 and see your console.log messages.
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
There's a bit more overhead, but the free Visual Studio Web Express Edition has a very good debugger: http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/Default.aspx I use Firebug as well, but I feel that this is the best IE debugger available. JK _ From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin Sterling Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:19 AM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: [jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A2BCust omer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 On 1/3/08, Christof Donat < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > Is there anything you'd reccomend? alert() Christof -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
In IE I use a combination of DebugBar, IEDevelopemnt toolbar and Opera (IE and Opera use more or less that same javascript engine and Opera has a nice Error console). I also us the iLogger plugin[1] http://trac.asterisk2billing.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/browser/tags/1.3.1/A2BCustomer_UI/javascript/jquery/ilogger.js?rev=462 On 1/3/08, Christof Donat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > > Is there anything you'd reccomend? > > alert() > > Christof > > -- Benjamin Sterling http://www.KenzoMedia.com http://www.KenzoHosting.com http://www.benjaminsterling.com
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
I've used Charles and honestly I don't like it. I use Firebug for FF, and for Flash dev, I use the Flash Net Debugger. A co-worker uses Service Capture, but I've not tried it enough to know if it's good or not. -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cfdvlpr Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:59 AM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite What debug tools do you all use? So far, I've just used firebug. That really only seems to work well for me in Firefox and it works very well - makes my life 100 times easier. How about tools for IE? Is there anything you'd reccomend? As much as I hate coding for IE, it's what 80% of our visitors use. Hopefully, someday everyone on this planet will use Firefox, but until that day I need to code for IE.
[jQuery] Re: Debug Tools - Charles, DebugBar, Firebug Lite
Hi, > What debug tools do you all use? [...] How about tools for IE? > Is there anything you'd reccomend? alert() Christof
