Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
Hi all, I'm a web hack who enjoys doing some web application programming. While this isn't my "day job", I wouldn't mind for it to be. In the past, the web applications I have written (for school assignments and other stuff like that) have all be hosted on Jrun or Tomcat. In thinking about any future career moves, would I be well served to take the time to learn WebSphere? Does WebSphere offer a large advantage over the other application servers, or is it more the case of "you know one, you know them all"? And if you think I should learn WebSphere, what is the best way to do so? Thanks for your advice -- I'm looking forward to reading what you have to say. Best Regards, Andy === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
Andy As you probably already know, IBM markets their product Websphere, in a total package for developers, designers and Web Admins. As a programmer, I wouldnt be too concerned about the App Server as much as I would be concerned about the Application Development tool. IBMs WSAD (WebSphere Application Developer Studio) is designed in such a fashion as to compliment the App Server and Vice Versa. If youre looking towards a career in web design for small to mid size corporations, then you might consider following IBMs road to Java. The nice thing about WebSphere is that it has been ported to many platforms including but not limited to Linux, W2K and IBMs proprietary AS400/OS400( More commonly known as I-Series 400). On the other hand, if youre looking at a smaller entrepreneur approach to tap into the market, then you might consider keeping with the open source community. To simply answer your question Should I learn Websphere?. I wouldnt waste precious time learning WebSphere, however, you might want learn WSAD or even VAJ (Visual Age for Java). Ive seen many job postings on dice.com indicating a demand for programmers with knowledge of both. HTH - Original Message - From: Andy Engle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:10:30 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere? > Hi all, > > I'm a web hack who enjoys doing some web application programming. While > this isn't my "day job", I wouldn't mind for it to be. In the past, the web > applications I have written (for school assignments and other stuff like > that) have all be hosted on Jrun or Tomcat. In thinking about any future > career moves, would I be well served to take the time to learn WebSphere? > Does WebSphere offer a large advantage over the other application servers, > or is it more the case of "you know one, you know them all"? And if you > think I should learn WebSphere, what is the best way to do so? > > Thanks for your advice -- I'm looking forward to reading what you have to > say. > > > Best Regards, > Andy > > === > To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". > For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". > Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: > > http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html > http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp > http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp > http://www.jspinsider.com > > -- ___ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
Hi Andy, I'm not yet a guru (or an expert) in this area, but do take a look at this link : http://www.togethercommunity.com/download.jsp?type=templates I suppose it might help you in your decision making ! Best Regards, Bob === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
Is IBM Websphere all that cheap compared to JRUN Server? JRUN Server also comes with a development IDE, JRUN Studio, for an additional $400.00. The cost for the server is now under $1000.00. I thought IBM Websphere was still in the 20K-30K range (for the entire package including the development Studio), which is a lot more money for a small business than JRUN Server. Celeste -Original Message- From: Darrin Blocker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere? Andy - As you probably already know, IBM markets their product Websphere, in a total package for developers, designers and Web Admins. As a programmer, I wouldn't be too concerned about the App Server as much as I would be concerned about the Application Development tool. IBM's WSAD (WebSphere Application Developer Studio) is designed in such a fashion as to compliment the App Server and Vice Versa. If you're looking towards a career in web design for small to mid size corporations, then you might consider following IBM's road to Java. The nice thing about WebSphere is that it has been ported to many platforms including but not limited to Linux, W2K and IBM's proprietary AS400/OS400( More commonly known as I-Series 400). On the other hand, if you're looking at a smaller entrepreneur approach to tap into the market, then you might consider keeping with the open source community. To simply answer your question "Should I learn Websphere?". I wouldn't waste precious time learning WebSphere, however, you might want learn WSAD or even VAJ (Visual Age for Java). I've seen many job postings on dice.com indicating a demand for programmers with knowledge of both. HTH.. - Original Message - From: Andy Engle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:10:30 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere? > Hi all, > > I'm a web hack who enjoys doing some web application programming. While > this isn't my "day job", I wouldn't mind for it to be. In the past, the web > applications I have written (for school assignments and other stuff like > that) have all be hosted on Jrun or Tomcat. In thinking about any future > career moves, would I be well served to take the time to learn WebSphere? > Does WebSphere offer a large advantage over the other application servers, > or is it more the case of "you know one, you know them all"? And if you > think I should learn WebSphere, what is the best way to do so? > > Thanks for your advice -- I'm looking forward to reading what you have to > say. > > > Best Regards, > Andy > > === > To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". > For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". > Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: > > http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html > http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp > http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp > http://www.jspinsider.com > > -- ___ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
You wrote: > Is IBM Websphere all that cheap compared to JRUN Server? JRUN Server > also comes with a development IDE, JRUN Studio, for an additional > $400.00. The cost for the server is now under $1000.00. I'm really not too sure on the cost of the JRun server. When we used it (about a year and a half ago) it was for our senior project, and so we basically just used the trial version. It was obviously limited in functionality, but good enough for what we were using it for. And of course we didn't pay anything for it, since it was the demo version. I am not sure they still have the demo version available or not. > I thought IBM Websphere was still in the 20K-30K range (for the > entire package including the development Studio), which is a lot more > money for a small business than JRUN Server. I ain't gonna be the one payin' for it! I'll let any future employer do that. :) I just want to know if I should take the time to learn more about it. So far, it sounds like it would be helpful to know more about WebSphere, but not absolutely essential. Thanks, Andy __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
As I guy who conducts interviews. Having the technology of the products used by the hiring company will help get you the interviews. However, unless you've used them in an industrial setting - the interviewer will quickly see through your thin layer of skills. The best use of your time (assuming you don't have a sheet of paper proving you've learned this stuff) is to pick a group of technologies that work together - and build an appropriate application & put it into production. For example; Java, Servlet, Struts, JSP, EJB. This gives you something to put on your resume that looks like industry experience, and you've done some learning in the process. As well, it gives you a story to tell during the interview. What you did, what worked, what didn't, what you learned, how you'd do things differently. The other important thing to spend time is learning and understanding good "design". This is something harder to teach, harder to learn, but just as important. Some of the scariest things I see in the industry are guys from other industries who've read a book, built an application, and then sell themselves like professional IT guys; where their skills are no where near the same level as the guy who's spent 4 years in university and many more years practicing the trade. I've worked with some very smart cookies who were self taught; but these guys tend to be far and few between. Make sure you focus on UNDERSTANDING how everything works together. Getting depth in JRUN is more important then getting breath across JRUN, WebSphere, Weblogic, etc - especially if you are entering the market as a junior guy! Best of luck. -Original Message- From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andy Engle Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere? Hi all, I'm a web hack who enjoys doing some web application programming. While this isn't my "day job", I wouldn't mind for it to be. In the past, the web applications I have written (for school assignments and other stuff like that) have all be hosted on Jrun or Tomcat. In thinking about any future career moves, would I be well served to take the time to learn WebSphere? Does WebSphere offer a large advantage over the other application servers, or is it more the case of "you know one, you know them all"? And if you think I should learn WebSphere, what is the best way to do so? Thanks for your advice -- I'm looking forward to reading what you have to say. Best Regards, Andy === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at: http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.jsp http://www.jguru.com/faq/index.jsp http://www.jspinsider.com
Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere?
John, I agree with your advice. Getting the depth of understanding of how to design AND build a web site using JSP/servlets, JDBC, Java class beans (as opposed to applets), tag libraries (Jakarta libraries or even JRUN's), XML, and Model-View-Controller (MVC) architecture is MUCH more important at the outset than the breadth of experience. We are production shop that uses JRUN, and although JRUN does not have the market share that IBM Websphere or BEA Weblogic has, it is still one of the cheapest third party servers you can purchase, unless you go open source (JBoss, Tomcat). Once you have worked with one Sun certified compliant JDBC driver and server, than you can easily pick up on the others. The same is true in regards to MVC architecture and to serlvet/EJB servers, in my opinion. Struts is one of the most popular MVC architecture's around, but it is not the only MVC open source architecture out there. Another is Maverick, which has some feature that Struts doesn't have. But again, once you understand MVC architecture, and how to design and build a MVC web site, which open source architecture you choose to use, or even if you decide to write is your own, is moot. Interestingly enough, though I have always maintained this viewpoint in regards to hiring people, this is the first time I seen anyone else express this viewpoint. Most other managers still believe if the individual "hasn't worked in product A, then he's no use to me". It's the basic understanding of the concepts regarding what's involved in designing and building a site or product, and the technology you are using, that is most important. The programming language and the software packages you choose to use to meet that goal are second in my opinion. Celeste -Original Message- From: John Slaman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 8:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere? As I guy who conducts interviews. Having the technology of the products used by the hiring company will help get you the interviews. However, unless you've used them in an industrial setting - the interviewer will quickly see through your thin layer of skills. The best use of your time (assuming you don't have a sheet of paper proving you've learned this stuff) is to pick a group of technologies that work together - and build an appropriate application & put it into production. For example; Java, Servlet, Struts, JSP, EJB. This gives you something to put on your resume that looks like industry experience, and you've done some learning in the process. As well, it gives you a story to tell during the interview. What you did, what worked, what didn't, what you learned, how you'd do things differently. The other important thing to spend time is learning and understanding good "design". This is something harder to teach, harder to learn, but just as important. Some of the scariest things I see in the industry are guys from other industries who've read a book, built an application, and then sell themselves like professional IT guys; where their skills are no where near the same level as the guy who's spent 4 years in university and many more years practicing the trade. I've worked with some very smart cookies who were self taught; but these guys tend to be far and few between. Make sure you focus on UNDERSTANDING how everything works together. Getting depth in JRUN is more important then getting breath across JRUN, WebSphere, Weblogic, etc - especially if you are entering the market as a junior guy! Best of luck. -Original Message- From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andy Engle Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Somewhat off-topic: Should I learn WebSphere? Hi all, I'm a web hack who enjoys doing some web application programming. While this isn't my "day job", I wouldn't mind for it to be. In the past, the web applications I have written (for school assignments and other stuff like that) have all be hosted on Jrun or Tomcat. In thinking about any future career moves, would I be well served to take the time to learn WebSphere? Does WebSphere offer a large advantage over the other application servers, or is it more the case of "you know one, you know them all"? And if you think I should learn WebSphere, what is the best way to do so? Thanks for your advice -- I'm looking forward to reading what you have to say. Best Regards, Andy === To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST". Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Ser
