Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
On Monday, May 23, 2011 06:03:08 AM Kevin Oberman wrote: In any case, I quit searching the PR database at Juniper long ago. I suspect it is enough of a mess that, even if the PRs were not mostly confidential, we would be unable to find matches. Agree. The worst part, for us, is when a JTAC engineer gives us a PR number as a cause for a problem we're seeing, and we can't view it because it's confidential. Unless customers are running their own code using the Junos SDK, such that an issue affects only them, it's fairly safe to assume that a problem affecting any part of general Junos affects more than one customer, even though only one customer has reported the problem. Mark. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 14:21:34 -0700 From: Darren Bolding dar...@bolding.org Sender: juniper-nsp-boun...@puck.nether.net Allow me to reiterate the significant impact internal/confidential/restricted PR's have on the utility of Junipers public facing PR lists. To wit- the private PR's make the public lists essentially useless, and researching them a waste of valuable time. I've had various Juniper folks tell me that the policy is that if the PR affects only one customer, it is kept private. We have run into unexpected impacts that were already private PR's on every single release of code, on every single Juniper platform we have used to date. We always ask that the private PR be made public since it now clearly is impacting multiple customers. I've checked a couple of times and the rate that they have been made public is less than 100%. We've been told this would be fixed a number of times. I haven't seen progress. So, for now, the best practice seems to be to watch forums, ask questions, and slowly roll out new releases through your environment. After all, we all have budget, technology and resources to reasonably simulate real-world traffic on a full-scale testing clone of production environments, don't we? --D On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Jim Boyle jbo...@juniper.net wrote: Richard - you are right about the scope here, but we are working towards progress in this area. It's not easy! Hopefully you'll start to see progress over the next few months in terms of content visibility and usefulness. And beyond that we have other efforts underway for further improvements. Thanks, Jim -Original Message- From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:r...@e-gerbil.net] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 2:10 PM To: Jim Boyle Cc: Alex; Dale Shaw; juniper-nsp Subject: Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:38:22AM -0700, Jim Boyle wrote: You can also take a look at the results from our online PRSearch application. http://www.juniper.net/prsearch/ Select 10.4R3, or 10.4R4 and show the results Closed in that release. That will show available PRs with commits/resolution in that release (Closed isn't quite accurate here as the PR may be open for other releases or follow-on actions) Thanks to Alex for the pointers on the release notes. In general, the release notes show what is fixed in that release (under Resolved Issues for each section). So if you check the PRs in the 10.4R4 ones, and cross check them on the web, you should find they are resolved in 10.4R4. I'll admit that finding the this information isn't as easy as it should be. Juniper certainly has room for improvement here for usability as well as consistency of information. We are working towards improvements in this area. Alas we find that something like 75% of our PRs end up being marked confidential until we ask for them to be changed (sometimes multiple times :P), even when there is no reason for them to be, which tends to make the PR search all but useless for any real work. And I won't even start complaining about the accuracy of the PR public facing descriptions, that would be a whole 'nother thread. :) Sorry but the only way to get any real work done is to have an RE or SE be your bitch and look up the PRs to tell you what they're REALLY about, hoping for anything else is a complete fantasy. -- Richard A Steenbergen r...@e-gerbil.net http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC) ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp This is one of Juniper's more bone-headed policies. I can't count the number of bug reports we have submitted to JTAC that were existing PRs, but confidential. Worse, on several occasions the initial report showed no matches in the PR database and it was only after a new PR was opened and the problem escalated that a matching PR was found. I wonder if several PRs that are confidential (because only one customer has seen them) were really seen by others, but no PR match ever occurred. In any case, I quit searching the PR database at Juniper long ago. I suspect it is enough of a mess that, even if the PRs were not mostly confidential, we would be unable to find matches. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: ober...@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
Allow me to reiterate the significant impact internal/confidential/restricted PR's have on the utility of Junipers public facing PR lists. To wit- the private PR's make the public lists essentially useless, and researching them a waste of valuable time. I've had various Juniper folks tell me that the policy is that if the PR affects only one customer, it is kept private. We have run into unexpected impacts that were already private PR's on every single release of code, on every single Juniper platform we have used to date. We always ask that the private PR be made public since it now clearly is impacting multiple customers. I've checked a couple of times and the rate that they have been made public is less than 100%. We've been told this would be fixed a number of times. I haven't seen progress. So, for now, the best practice seems to be to watch forums, ask questions, and slowly roll out new releases through your environment. After all, we all have budget, technology and resources to reasonably simulate real-world traffic on a full-scale testing clone of production environments, don't we? --D On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Jim Boyle jbo...@juniper.net wrote: Richard - you are right about the scope here, but we are working towards progress in this area. It's not easy! Hopefully you'll start to see progress over the next few months in terms of content visibility and usefulness. And beyond that we have other efforts underway for further improvements. Thanks, Jim -Original Message- From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:r...@e-gerbil.net] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 2:10 PM To: Jim Boyle Cc: Alex; Dale Shaw; juniper-nsp Subject: Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:38:22AM -0700, Jim Boyle wrote: You can also take a look at the results from our online PRSearch application. http://www.juniper.net/prsearch/ Select 10.4R3, or 10.4R4 and show the results Closed in that release. That will show available PRs with commits/resolution in that release (Closed isn't quite accurate here as the PR may be open for other releases or follow-on actions) Thanks to Alex for the pointers on the release notes. In general, the release notes show what is fixed in that release (under Resolved Issues for each section). So if you check the PRs in the 10.4R4 ones, and cross check them on the web, you should find they are resolved in 10.4R4. I'll admit that finding the this information isn't as easy as it should be. Juniper certainly has room for improvement here for usability as well as consistency of information. We are working towards improvements in this area. Alas we find that something like 75% of our PRs end up being marked confidential until we ask for them to be changed (sometimes multiple times :P), even when there is no reason for them to be, which tends to make the PR search all but useless for any real work. And I won't even start complaining about the accuracy of the PR public facing descriptions, that would be a whole 'nother thread. :) Sorry but the only way to get any real work done is to have an RE or SE be your bitch and look up the PRs to tell you what they're REALLY about, hoping for anything else is a complete fantasy. -- Richard A Steenbergen r...@e-gerbil.net http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC) ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp -- -- Darren Bolding -- -- dar...@bolding.org -- ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:38:22AM -0700, Jim Boyle wrote: You can also take a look at the results from our online PRSearch application. http://www.juniper.net/prsearch/ Select 10.4R3, or 10.4R4 and show the results Closed in that release. That will show available PRs with commits/resolution in that release (Closed isn't quite accurate here as the PR may be open for other releases or follow-on actions) Thanks to Alex for the pointers on the release notes. In general, the release notes show what is fixed in that release (under Resolved Issues for each section). So if you check the PRs in the 10.4R4 ones, and cross check them on the web, you should find they are resolved in 10.4R4. I'll admit that finding the this information isn't as easy as it should be. Juniper certainly has room for improvement here for usability as well as consistency of information. We are working towards improvements in this area. Alas we find that something like 75% of our PRs end up being marked confidential until we ask for them to be changed (sometimes multiple times :P), even when there is no reason for them to be, which tends to make the PR search all but useless for any real work. And I won't even start complaining about the accuracy of the PR public facing descriptions, that would be a whole 'nother thread. :) Sorry but the only way to get any real work done is to have an RE or SE be your bitch and look up the PRs to tell you what they're REALLY about, hoping for anything else is a complete fantasy. -- Richard A Steenbergen r...@e-gerbil.net http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC) ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
Richard - you are right about the scope here, but we are working towards progress in this area. It's not easy! Hopefully you'll start to see progress over the next few months in terms of content visibility and usefulness. And beyond that we have other efforts underway for further improvements. Thanks, Jim -Original Message- From: Richard A Steenbergen [mailto:r...@e-gerbil.net] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 2:10 PM To: Jim Boyle Cc: Alex; Dale Shaw; juniper-nsp Subject: Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:38:22AM -0700, Jim Boyle wrote: You can also take a look at the results from our online PRSearch application. http://www.juniper.net/prsearch/ Select 10.4R3, or 10.4R4 and show the results Closed in that release. That will show available PRs with commits/resolution in that release (Closed isn't quite accurate here as the PR may be open for other releases or follow-on actions) Thanks to Alex for the pointers on the release notes. In general, the release notes show what is fixed in that release (under Resolved Issues for each section). So if you check the PRs in the 10.4R4 ones, and cross check them on the web, you should find they are resolved in 10.4R4. I'll admit that finding the this information isn't as easy as it should be. Juniper certainly has room for improvement here for usability as well as consistency of information. We are working towards improvements in this area. Alas we find that something like 75% of our PRs end up being marked confidential until we ask for them to be changed (sometimes multiple times :P), even when there is no reason for them to be, which tends to make the PR search all but useless for any real work. And I won't even start complaining about the accuracy of the PR public facing descriptions, that would be a whole 'nother thread. :) Sorry but the only way to get any real work done is to have an RE or SE be your bitch and look up the PRs to tell you what they're REALLY about, hoping for anything else is a complete fantasy. -- Richard A Steenbergen r...@e-gerbil.net http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC) ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
Hi, On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 10:49:27AM +1000, Dale Shaw wrote: Q: Is there a way to determine what has changed between two revisions of a major JUNOS release? For argument's sake, how do I find out precisely what changed between 10.4R3 and 10.4R4? Recent official Juniper answer: buy professional services to get the bugfix list. And they really mean it. No kiddin'. Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: d...@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0 ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
[j-nsp] JUNOS major releases - differences between revisions
Hi all, I feel like a bit of a newbie asking this (and, relatively speaking, I am!) because it feels like something that should be fairly straight-forward. And maybe it is. Q: Is there a way to determine what has changed between two revisions of a major JUNOS release? For argument's sake, how do I find out precisely what changed between 10.4R3 and 10.4R4? The release notes for 10.4 don't spell it out very clearly. I suppose I could look just at the outstanding and resolved issues sections of the release notes but I'm not even sure how I can go back and look at the 10.4 release notes at the time the previous revision was released. A 'single' 10.4 release note exists and is simply revised when a new revision to the major release goes out. I know (in theory) there shouldn't be any new features between revisions -- just bug fixes. I'm more familiar navigating cisco IOS release notes where, even between maintenance releases, it's made fairly clear what has changed. Cheers, Dale ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
