Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 20:10:01 +0530 Jaroslaw Staniek wrote > This. And Kuntal, from controversial angle, how would Fixture help > re-sellers? They would ignore with you from the day one I bet, then they > will fight. I see this all the time with, say, Blender. The time you Fixture > team releases 1.0 all specialized apps will be available via service only > (compare Fusion 360). Actually I also pitched this in Adobe's office during a community gathering and apparently they cutoff the video recording in the mid way. > Practical thing is, I'd like to gently hear from the Krita community if they > accept properly done "Photoshop" mode for Krita, perhaps at the build time > and if possible go there. Krita has dozens of structures and GUI items you > need but you do not want to re-implement them in coming years... This can be > done right but has costs too for Krita so cost-benefit math needs to be done > first. Someone in reddit was also saying that, the UI is built on plugins so practically we can scrap the UI and use Krita as a base to develop it further. Would be helpful if someone can shed some light onto it. Thanks Kuntal M
Re: Improving Bugzilla Status Names
On venerdì 7 settembre 2018 01:43:46 CEST, Andrew Crouthamel wrote: I spent some time looking through RESOLVED > INVALID bugs to see how they are being used. The vast majority are for closing bug reports that were upstream/downstream, no response from reporter, or not a bug to begin with. It appears renaming INVALID to NOTABUG would be a good change, as some of the other bugs that have been closed as RESOLVED > INVALID would be better served under RESOLVED > WORKSFORME (bug report with no response from reporter) or RESOLVED > UPSTREAM (bug report with problematic Nvidia drivers) or RESOLVED > DOWNSTREAM (bug report with distro problems). Regarding closing wishlist items with, I believe RESOLVED > LATER is a good choice, it appears others are already doing that. Here is my follow-up change recommendation based on feedback and research: UNCONFIRMED -> REPORTED WONTFIX -> INTENTIONAL INVALID -> NOTABUG Hi I'm surprised the new names have already been deployed on bugzilla. We are talking about a pretty big change in our workflow and I think we didn't discuss it enough. Also, many developers are not on this list and we should have contacted at least kde-devel first. For example, I don't understand how am I supposed to close wishlists now. Resolved-Wontix made sense to me, Resolved-Later or Resolved-Intentional do not, imho. Cheers, Elvis
Re: Improving Bugzilla Status Names
On zaterdag 22 september 2018 13:41:39 CEST Elvis Angelaccio wrote: > > I'm surprised the new names have already been deployed on bugzilla. > > We are talking about a pretty big change in our workflow and I think we > didn't discuss it enough. Also, many developers are not on this list and we > should have contacted at least kde-devel first. I disagree. If you're part of the KDE community, you should be on this list. And it's been discussed on and off for over a year: plenty enough. > For example, I don't understand how am I supposed to close wishlists now. > Resolved-Wontix made sense to me, Resolved-Later or Resolved-Intentional do > not, imho. In my opinion, resolved/intentional is as appropriate as resolved/wontfix -- since a wish isn't bug, implementing it isn't a fix either. All bugzilla statuses are crutches, that's just something we have to live with. -- https://www.krita.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
On zaterdag 22 september 2018 10:18:22 CEST Kuntal Majumder wrote: > Someone in reddit was also saying that, the UI is built on plugins so > practically we can scrap the UI and use Krita as a base to develop it > further. Would be helpful if someone can shed some light onto it. Sorry, that's just something you'll have to dig in for yourself. It's not worth my time at least to get you started on something like that: it will not help me achieve my goals. -- https://www.krita.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
Can you guys maybe now move this discussion to telegram or phabricator? It seems that there is good debate and good will. Thank you Andy On September 22, 2018 at 6:37:13 AM, Boudewijn Rempt (b...@valdyas.org) wrote: > On zaterdag 22 september 2018 10:18:22 CEST Kuntal Majumder wrote: > > Someone in reddit was also saying that, the UI is built on plugins so > practically we can scrap the UI and use Krita as a base to develop it > further. Would be helpful if someone can shed some light onto it. > > > Sorry, that's just something you'll have to dig in for yourself. It's not > worth my time at least to get you started on something like that: it will > not > help me achieve my goals. > > -- > https://www.krita.org > -- >
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
Andy B ha scritto: Can you guys maybe now move this discussion to telegram or phabricator? It seems that there is good debate and good will. I'm not sure why this discussion should be diverted from a mailing list to a messaging system (*) and a planning and development system like phabricator. Maybe (just maybe) it can be be moved to a more appropriate mailing list. (*) let's not use "telegram" as synonym for "messaging system", please. -- Luigi
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
Wherever it may be, good or bad, just not in this list. It seems this discussion will go for long and it is probably best for the contributors to have a separate discussion elsewhere where they can dive into details. On September 22, 2018 at 7:38:03 AM, Luigi Toscano (luigi.tosc...@tiscali.it) wrote: > Andy B ha scritto: > > Can you guys maybe now move this discussion to telegram or phabricator? It > seems that there is good debate and good will. > > > I'm not sure why this discussion should be diverted from a mailing list to > a > messaging system (*) and a planning and development system like > phabricator. > > Maybe (just maybe) it can be be moved to a more appropriate mailing list. > > (*) let's not use "telegram" as synonym for "messaging system", please. > > -- > Luigi >
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
On zaterdag 22 september 2018 15:38:03 CEST Luigi Toscano wrote: > Andy B ha scritto: > > Can you guys maybe now move this discussion to telegram or phabricator? It > > seems that there is good debate and good will. > > I'm not sure why this discussion should be diverted from a mailing list to a > messaging system (*) and a planning and development system like > phabricator. Yes, that's kinda weird. Since Fixture isn't a KDE project, we can hardly discuss it on Phabricator. Not that I think we'll need much more discussion until something material happens that makes it interesting again. > Maybe (just maybe) it can be be moved to a more appropriate mailing list. I'm fine with Hellozee mailing the kimageshop mailing list asking for information; that would probably be most appropriate. > > (*) let's not use "telegram" as synonym for "messaging system", please. Amen to that. -- https://www.krita.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Improving Bugzilla Status Names
On 09/22/2018 05:41 AM, Elvis Angelaccio wrote:
We are talking about a pretty big change in our workflow
Can you comment on how this has impacted your workflow? For me it hasn't
resulted in any workflow changes at all since the new strings mean the
same thing as the old ones. The point was simply to soften them a bit.
e.g. RESOLVED WONTFIX and RESOLVED INTENTIONAL both mean the same thing
("We won't be implementing this"). However, because feature requests get
implemented and not fixed, the presence of the word "fix" in the phase
WONTFIX implied that there is a bug that we are ignoring for some
reason, which was obviously not true. The word INTENTIONAL does IMHO a
better job of communicating "this is behaving as we have consciously
designed it so we won't be changing it."
If someone makes a wishlist request that you won't do, I think closing
it as RESOLVED INTENTIONAL is the appropriate course of action just like
the old RESOLVED WONTFIX.
RESOLVED NOTABUG is for tickets that are actually support requests,
complaints, or anything else not appropriate for a bug tracker, just
like the old RESOLVED INVALID.
Nate
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
[boud] > Sorry, that's just something you'll have to dig in for yourself. It's not > worth my time at least to get you started on something like that: it will not > help me achieve my goals. I guess it depends on the scope and ability of parallel works to give back to Krita. KOffice/Calligra was apparently not in the end closely related enough to bring more value from the shared portions than the cost of maintaining those portions for the different use cases. However this historical event may not be a definitive proof that it is not worth sharing Krita code with derivative products. As said many time, Krita focuses on drawing workflows and its restricted scope allows it to excel at it and gain market share and donations, in return funding further development. Photo editing and graphics design are larger markets but are even more entrenched as they are mostly done by paid people instead of having an active community of artists around it. But then again, as Krita gain more drawing related features that happen to also benefit the other workflows, it gets potentially significantly more attractive to those markets *if* there was some work on missing core features and an UX optimized for them. Bloating Krita into a jack of all trace raster and vector graphics design apps would most likely overwhelm the (already crowded) GUI and make it less attractive. >From that point of view, maybe having more generally reusable libraries within Krita would improve the situation. In no means should you even consider freezing their API or officially supporting them when used by 3rd parties. That adds development and maintenance cost that indeed prevent you from achieving your goals. But lowering the cost of new GUI experiments and alternate workflow can maybe help second or third parties implement toy GUIs and maybe contribute back some features that may eventually lower the cost of getting an official Krita derivative (Karbon14 new generation?) out of the door to tap into a new donation market. It seems a generally "low cost" avenue to take a bet toward getting closer to achieve your goals. I would love a better alternative to GIMP to exist as a companion (or even better, directly integrated) app for Digikam. I do some hobby photography and often have to use GIMP or, back then, my old PhotoShop 7 license to remove electric wires and similar changes. GIMP user interface is ridiculously illogical and unintuitive. Krita one is much better but lacks some photo manipulation features I like and I acknowledge it is not designed for the same kind of work. I guess I am not alone on being on the "edge" of being able to enjoy all the work invested in Krita but who have workflows it isn't optimized for (or lack features). [Kuntal] > So a couple us are trying to build a raster graphics editor which looks and > behaves similar to Photoshop with the help of Qt5. As everybody here said, it's a lot of work for a market that has been proven not to exist. I wont repeat what was said above, but just add 2 examples: The first one is the original GimpShop. Back in Photoshop 7 days, GIMP was mostly on par when it came to features beside non-RGB color systems. So someone just forked it to clone the Photoshop menu and tools layout. It was a novelty for a time, but didn't take Photoshop crown when it was technically close to be on par with it. Then someone usurped the project brand recognition to distribute malwares and the current "GimpShop" has nothing to do with the original fork. The second was called Pixel. This person made a shareware that really, really cloned Photoshop. It was ported to every operating systems under the sun[1], even the most obscure ones. You could pay a very small fee to get the version that didn't add random watermarks from time to time when you saved. The GUI was a 1:1 clone and all the features actually worked surprisingly well. Still, that was a dozen year ago and where is it now? Apparently people who want Photoshop will use Photoshop and no amount of time and love will fix it. Plus, the time it takes to maintain such large software is apparently requiring some sort of full time developers as demonstrated successfully by Krita (please everybody, consider donating to their ongoing fund raising). My advice would also be to contribute to Krita or a derivative to better tap into the other workflows (pick one and master it). Boudewijn and the other Krita contributors proved that you can compete with Photoshop if you have a laser focus on the needs of the group of users you target and love your work and your users. But as far as just cloning it and hope for the best, I think that avenue is totally hopeless. Cheers, Emmanuel Lepage [1] http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=5 On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 at 09:43, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > > On zaterdag 22 september 2018 15:38:03 CEST Luigi Toscano wrote: > > Andy B ha scritto: > > > Can you guys maybe now move this discussion to telegram or phabricator? It > > > seems t
Re: Call for contributors for Fixture [ Qt5 based raster graphics editor ]
Hi, Ideally we should be taking the conversation to somewhere more appropriate but nevertheless, On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 03:44:27 +0530 Elv1313 . wrote > The first one is the original GimpShop. Back in Photoshop 7 days, GIMP > was mostly on par when it came to features beside non-RGB color > systems. So someone just forked it to clone the Photoshop menu and > tools layout. It was a novelty for a time, but didn't take Photoshop > crown when it was technically close to be on par with it. Then someone > usurped the project brand recognition to distribute malwares and the > current "GimpShop" has nothing to do with the original fork. I would disagree with you, even the current GIMP is not par with Photoshop 7. https://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Roadmap , if you take a look carefully under the 3.2 section, you would find a couple of common things which were there in Photoshop 7 but still not there in the current GIMP. > The second was called Pixel. This person made a shareware that really, > really cloned Photoshop. It was ported to every operating systems > under the sun[1], even the most obscure ones. You could pay a very > small fee to get the version that didn't add random watermarks from > time to time when you saved. The GUI was a 1:1 clone and all the > features actually worked surprisingly well. Still, that was a dozen > year ago and where is it now? You mean Pixeluvo right? If it is Pixeluvo, then sadly I have to disagree with you again. The free version was just a 30 day trial, it is only available for Linux and Windows, haven't tried all the features but can say it for sure that the GUI was not a 1:1 clone, though pretty close. Thanks Kuntal M
