Message filtering on this forum (was Re: Apology)
Le 2021-03-26 à 20:02, Valorie Zimmerman a écrit :
Hi Niccolò,
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:26 PM Niccolò Ve
mailto:niccolo.venera...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi.
> Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed.
This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic.
The KDE Community list exists, according to the subscription page:
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community>
The purpose of the mailing list is to provide a place for
non-technical information and discussions which are relevant to
the KDE community as a whole. All people who consider themselves
to be part of the KDE community are invited to join. Conversations
on the mailing list are respectful, considerate, polite and
constructive following our KDE Code of Conduct.
The list collects announcements, information and results from
discussions in other places and offers a place to get feedback on
non-technical questions or plans of relevance for the whole KDE
community.
Anything else is off-topic.
A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic.
The original post was about the FSF and their governance.
First of all, I find it unfortunate to be discussing messages most
readers don't even have access to, and I want to thank Niccolò for
reporting his experience.
Although I am not sure which exact thread Niccolò referred to, having
followed kde-community fairly well recently, I very much doubt that the
thread he replied to was not about RMS (even if it was also about FSF
and its governance).
Unfortunately "RMS pro/con" hijacked that thread and caused this list
to be moderated.
If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say so.
I did so.
I don't know if the following is what Niccolò meant, but if some
messages sent to this forum were indeed refused due to topicality, there
is a problem.
This mailing list is not a web forum and threads cannot be "locked". If
the new administration now rejects specific discussions which were
already started, replies to the specific (sub-)threads indicating
shutdown should be sent, so that participants do not waste their time
writing mails which end up rejected.
If, as Valorie seems to say, the worry goes beyond specific discussions,
we first need to avoid false dichotomies. Topicality is relative, and
messages about RMS are certainly neither the most topical nor the least
topical on this forum.
If forum administrators consider any discussion about RMS (or any other
topic which many/most participants consider potentially topical) to be
too little topical for kde-community, this should be communicated *with
sufficient prominence*. Indicating that a topic is rejected in a mail is
better than nothing, but has extremely low prominence in a mail titled
"Apology".
The ideal place to warn about rejections would be in the forum's
description. We could, for example, either:
1. specify in kde-community's description that discussion about RMS is
never considered sufficiently topical
2. specify in kde-community's description that only highly topical
discussion is accepted
3. or add a link from kde-community's description to a page clarifying
its filtering criteria
The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...)
does not change that
the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10 hours
*before* this apology.
It was rejected just*now.* As offtopic.
I live in the US; most of the other mods live in Europe. If they had
wanted to act on your email they could have done so, but I believe I
was the one to reject your post. There was nothing time-sensitive in it.
I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is
plain out bad. This apology
mail only made things worse. If I did not know about KDE, I'd say
that they are censoring
the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed.
Requiring lists to be on-topic is not censorship, which *governments* do.
I am not sure that defining censorship is helpful to this discussion,
but note that censorship is not only governmental.
[...]
Il giorno ven 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman
mailto:valorie.zimmer...@gmail.com>>
ha scritto:
Hello my friends,
When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this
was necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift
moderation as soon as possible.
I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread
that "wouldn't die" by expressing my own opinion. I should
have followed my own advice and walked away after writing my
email and then removed parts which expressed a personal opinion.
While I may disagree with others about the value
Re: Apology
Greetings Valorie, Le 2021-03-26 à 15:30, Valorie Zimmerman a écrit : Hello my friends, When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as possible. I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a personal opinion. While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the more I realize the value of good governance. Amen The FSF has been critical to the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very worrying. My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that I am truly sorry. I for one appreciate and very much accept. [...] -- This mail's original content (non-quoted parts) is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 4.0. Philippe Cloutier http://www.philippecloutier.com
Re: Apology
Hi Niccolò, On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:26 PM Niccolò Ve wrote: > Hi. > > > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. > > This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic. > The KDE Community list exists, according to the subscription page: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community The purpose of the mailing list is to provide a place for non-technical > information and discussions which are relevant to the KDE community as a > whole. All people who consider themselves to be part of the KDE community > are invited to join. Conversations on the mailing list are respectful, > considerate, polite and constructive following our KDE Code of Conduct. > The list collects announcements, information and results from discussions > in other places and offers a place to get feedback on non-technical > questions or plans of relevance for the whole KDE community. Anything else is off-topic. > A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic. > The original post was about the FSF and their governance. Unfortunately "RMS pro/con" hijacked that thread and caused this list to be moderated. > If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say so. > I did so. > The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...) does not > change that > the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10 hours *before* > this apology. > It was rejected just* now.* As offtopic. > I live in the US; most of the other mods live in Europe. If they had wanted to act on your email they could have done so, but I believe I was the one to reject your post. There was nothing time-sensitive in it. I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is plain out > bad. This apology > mail only made things worse. If I did not know about KDE, I'd say that > they are censoring > the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed. > Requiring lists to be on-topic is not censorship, which *governments* do. We're volunteers trying to keep lists "respectful, considerate, polite and constructive." Had the discussion kept to that, even though off-topic, it probably could have been solved by a warning. Even the original motivation for putting the ML under moderation could've > been worded better, > it raised complaints from some people I know. > Yes, I should have followed my own advice and removed my personal thoughts. That was not constructive. Putting an email under manual moderation requires that manual moderation to > happen much, > much faster than 10 hours. If help is needed in moderating, please say so. > If you want to shutdown the discussion about RMS, say it was getting too > aggressive, not that > it's "offtopic". > > Niccolò > We're all volunteers. Help is always welcome! List administration is not the most interesting job, but it is not usually difficult either. If you are interested, write to "$listname-ow...@kde.org" (in this case, kde-community-owner at kde.org) and volunteer your services. Valorie > > Il giorno ven 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman < > valorie.zimmer...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> Hello my friends, >> >> When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was >> necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as >> possible. >> >> I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't >> die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and >> walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a >> personal opinion. >> >> While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, >> he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the >> more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to >> the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very >> worrying. >> >> My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that >> I am truly sorry. >> >> Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. >> >> Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this. >> >> All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software >> communities, >> >> Valorie >> >> -- >> http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her >> > > > -- > Niccolò Venerandi > > -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
Re: Apology
Hi. > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off topic. A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic. If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say so. The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely _an_ issue...) does not change that the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an email 10 hours *before* this apology. It was rejected just* now.* As offtopic. I did not like that thread, but this handling of the situation is plain out bad. This apology mail only made things worse. If I did not know about KDE, I'd say that they are censoring the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed. Even the original motivation for putting the ML under moderation could've been worded better, it raised complaints from some people I know. Putting an email under manual moderation requires that manual moderation to happen much, much faster than 10 hours. If help is needed in moderating, please say so. If you want to shutdown the discussion about RMS, say it was getting too aggressive, not that it's "offtopic". Niccolò Il giorno ven 26 mar 2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman < valorie.zimmer...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > Hello my friends, > > When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was > necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as > possible. > > I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't > die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and > walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a > personal opinion. > > While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, > he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the > more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to > the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very > worrying. > > My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that I > am truly sorry. > > Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. > > Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this. > > All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software > communities, > > Valorie > > -- > http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her > -- Niccolò Venerandi
Apology
Hello my friends, When I put this list on emergency moderation, I felt that this was necessary. It still seems so, but I want to lift moderation as soon as possible. I may have played a part in continuing the negative thread that "wouldn't die" by expressing my own opinion. I should have followed my own advice and walked away after writing my email and then removed parts which expressed a personal opinion. While I may disagree with others about the value of RMS to Free Software, he is not the issue. The more organizations I've been involved with, the more I realize the value of good governance. The FSF has been critical to the growth of Free Software, and the recent news about their Board is very worrying. My statement did not do anything to convey that or to help, and for that I am truly sorry. Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and will not be allowed. Thanks to those of you who called my attention to my part in all of this. All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of the Free software communities, Valorie -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her
