Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
On Donnerstag, 25. November 2021 14:44:56 CET Albert Astals Cid wrote: > Hey, > > I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that > is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly > KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. > > How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? > > I have conflicting opinions myself. > > Pro: > * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs > > Con: > * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE > related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. > > Possible mitigation of the Con: Allow only Supporting Member companies > to send such job offers, but then it also is a potential mitigation of > the Pro :D So it would cost 1000 Euro/year to be allowed to post job offers ( https://ev.kde.org/getinvolved/supporting-members/[1] , formatting is partly broken on that page). If Linux & C++ & Qt would suffice as "KDE adjacent", then this would actually be cheap (one job ad for one month on stepstone is about 1000 Euro). Alex [1] https://ev.kde.org/getinvolved/supporting-members/
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
Hello, On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 5:06 PM Filipe Saraiva wrote: > Em 25/11/2021 10:44, Albert Astals Cid escreveu: > > > > I think my opinion at this point would be "Let companies sent job > > offers to this list and if it becomes unmanageable we say 'OK, was > > worth a try, but it's not working, please don't send anymore'" > > > > +1 > We should try. Let me explain though why I think a mailing list might not work. * As soon as the list become successful, it will bring the attention of job hunters and agencies. * We will have then to moderate the list, which will require effort and will bring friction. * The more successful we get the more friction we will experience. * Companies posting job openings will be contacted by headhunters offering people. Others will send candidates to the contact mail from the job opening. Others might... * Unqualified engineers, even outside KDE might use the job posting in our mailing list as reference, with the hit in reputation All these and other cases might be perceived as "good problems to have", as a sign of success, but the truth is that we are not professionals in the field and the risk to manage them incorrectly is very high. Head Hunting is a very competitive and frequently nasty industry. We are mature and trusted enough to help our community members to find jobs, especially to the younger ones. Let's make an agreement as eV with a reputed talent agency with solid background in Open Source. Let the professionals help us instead of getting into something that can blow up in our faces. > > -- > Filipe Saraiva > http://filipesaraiva.info/ Best Regards Agustin Benito (toscalix) KDE eV member Profile: http://www.toscalix.com
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
Em 25/11/2021 10:44, Albert Astals Cid escreveu: I think my opinion at this point would be "Let companies sent job offers to this list and if it becomes unmanageable we say 'OK, was worth a try, but it's not working, please don't send anymore'" +1 -- Filipe Saraiva http://filipesaraiva.info/
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
+1 from me on going for it. On 11/25/21 09:25, j...@ohyran.se wrote: (KDE and the lack of a central communicative hub we feel we can invest time in is a immortal struggle after all so pushing for more activity feels like a good thing) I also want to agree with this sentiment specifically. Nate
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
I'm in the "go for it" camp totally. I mean some kind of "is this fitting" thought surely before posting bt some activity doesn't hurt. (KDE and the lack of a central communicative hub we feel we can invest time in is a immortal struggle after all so pushing for more activity feels like a good thing) On Thursday, 25 November 2021 15:05:15 CET Tomaz Canabrava wrote: > On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 at 10:56 Paul Brown wrote: > > On Thursday, 25 November 2021 14:44:56 CET Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that > > > is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly > > > KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. > > > > > > How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? > > > > > > I have conflicting opinions myself. > > > > > > Pro: > > > * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs > > > > > > Con: > > > * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE > > > > > > related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. > > > > > > Possible mitigation of the Con: Allow only Supporting Member companies > > > to send such job offers, but then it also is a potential mitigation of > > > the Pro :D > > > > > > I think my opinion at this point would be "Let companies sent job > > > offers to this list and if it becomes unmanageable we say 'OK, was > > > worth a try, but it's not working, please don't send anymore'" > > > > > > What do y'all think? > > > > This list hasn't got a massive amount of traffic. Sounds like a good and > > beneficial use of bandwidth to me. > > > > +1 > > > > Cheers > > > > Paul > > I agree with Paul, one of the hardest selling points of free software is > that “working for free doesn’t pay the bills”, I don’t mind having jobs > that are somewhat related to kde on the list. > > > -- > > Promotion & Communication > > > > www: http://kde.org > > Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ > > Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity > > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
Am Donnerstag, 25. November 2021, 17:17:52 CET schrieb Ingo Klöcker: > [snip] > OTOH, I think I would prefer to use a separate dedicated mailing list for > this. I have mixed feelings about mixing community discussions with job > advertisements. Personally I'd also prefer a dedicated mailing list. Especially when people discuss about what is appropriate and what is not, I expect the line to be hard to draw and since this is a public mailing list, there is a good chance that some people decide it's a good space for head hunting, which will clutter the list a bit up. If we do have a dedicated list, personally I would be less strict about the FLOSS requirement, since if the job does teach people things that they can and will use to contribute to KDE (or other FLOSS) in their spare time, I'd still count that as a net win. > Regards, > Ingo Kind regards, Fuchs
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
Option 3: create a dedicated mailing list for job openings. On Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 17:18 Ingo Klöcker wrote: > Hi Albert, > > On Donnerstag, 25. November 2021 14:44:56 CET Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that > > is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly > > KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. > > > > How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? > > I'm not sure whether you are talking about jobs that will benefit KDE > because > working on KDE's offering (e.g. KDE Frameworks) is part of the job or > whether > you are talking about some Qt job which will not benefit KDE because the > person will work on code that is orthogonal to KDE and maybe even > proprietary. > > I'm not okay with job offers for non-Free Software jobs. There are more > than > enough portals to look for non-Free Software C++ and Qt jobs. > > I think I would be okay with Free Software job offers that are > "KDE-adjacent". > In fact, I might be interested. > > > Pro: > > * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs > > ... which still allow them to contribute to KDE at least a bit. > > > Con: > > * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE > > related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. > > I think it should be restricted to jobs that benefit the Free Software > ecosystem. > > OTOH, I think I would prefer to use a separate dedicated mailing list for > this. I have mixed feelings about mixing community discussions with job > advertisements. Maybe it would be okay if the job ads were clearly marked > in > the subject, e.g. with "[Job]" so that one can easily filter them out > (physically or mentally). There should also be a clear policy that replies > to > job offers must not be send to the list and that job offers should not be > commented or discussed on this list. All of this would be much easier with > a > separate mailing list. > > Regards, > Ingo
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
Hi Albert, On Donnerstag, 25. November 2021 14:44:56 CET Albert Astals Cid wrote: > I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that > is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly > KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. > > How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? I'm not sure whether you are talking about jobs that will benefit KDE because working on KDE's offering (e.g. KDE Frameworks) is part of the job or whether you are talking about some Qt job which will not benefit KDE because the person will work on code that is orthogonal to KDE and maybe even proprietary. I'm not okay with job offers for non-Free Software jobs. There are more than enough portals to look for non-Free Software C++ and Qt jobs. I think I would be okay with Free Software job offers that are "KDE-adjacent". In fact, I might be interested. > Pro: > * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs ... which still allow them to contribute to KDE at least a bit. > Con: > * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE > related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. I think it should be restricted to jobs that benefit the Free Software ecosystem. OTOH, I think I would prefer to use a separate dedicated mailing list for this. I have mixed feelings about mixing community discussions with job advertisements. Maybe it would be okay if the job ads were clearly marked in the subject, e.g. with "[Job]" so that one can easily filter them out (physically or mentally). There should also be a clear policy that replies to job offers must not be send to the list and that job offers should not be commented or discussed on this list. All of this would be much easier with a separate mailing list. Regards, Ingo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 at 10:56 Paul Brown wrote: > On Thursday, 25 November 2021 14:44:56 CET Albert Astals Cid wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that > > is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly > > KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. > > > > How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? > > > > I have conflicting opinions myself. > > > > Pro: > > * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs > > > > Con: > > * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE > > related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. > > > > Possible mitigation of the Con: Allow only Supporting Member companies > > to send such job offers, but then it also is a potential mitigation of > > the Pro :D > > > > I think my opinion at this point would be "Let companies sent job > > offers to this list and if it becomes unmanageable we say 'OK, was > > worth a try, but it's not working, please don't send anymore'" > > > > What do y'all think? > > This list hasn't got a massive amount of traffic. Sounds like a good and > beneficial use of bandwidth to me. > > +1 > > Cheers > > Paul I agree with Paul, one of the hardest selling points of free software is that “working for free doesn’t pay the bills”, I don’t mind having jobs that are somewhat related to kde on the list. > -- > Promotion & Communication > > www: http://kde.org > Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde > > >
Re: How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
On Thursday, 25 November 2021 14:44:56 CET Albert Astals Cid wrote: > Hey, > > I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that > is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly > KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. > > How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? > > I have conflicting opinions myself. > > Pro: > * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs > > Con: > * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE > related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. > > Possible mitigation of the Con: Allow only Supporting Member companies > to send such job offers, but then it also is a potential mitigation of > the Pro :D > > I think my opinion at this point would be "Let companies sent job > offers to this list and if it becomes unmanageable we say 'OK, was > worth a try, but it's not working, please don't send anymore'" > > What do y'all think? This list hasn't got a massive amount of traffic. Sounds like a good and beneficial use of bandwidth to me. +1 Cheers Paul -- Promotion & Communication www: http://kde.org Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde
How do we feel about non 100% KDE job offers being sent here?
Hey, I know a company that would like to hire people with a skill set that is relatively common inside the KDE community, the job is not strictly KDE related, one could call it KDE-adjacent. How do we feel about such job offers being sent here? I have conflicting opinions myself. Pro: * We want people of the community to get [potentially better] jobs Con: * The list could filled with job offers that are not really KDE related since it's hard to define what "KDE-adjacent" really means. Possible mitigation of the Con: Allow only Supporting Member companies to send such job offers, but then it also is a potential mitigation of the Pro :D I think my opinion at this point would be "Let companies sent job offers to this list and if it becomes unmanageable we say 'OK, was worth a try, but it's not working, please don't send anymore'" What do y'all think? Cheers, Albert
