Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Monday, March 14, 2016 14:58:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote: ... > Next steps: > * publish the vision. I'm still working out what needs doing. can we please try to publish vision and mission together ? If things go well, maybe can get that done until end of April. Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Monday, March 14, 2016 14:58:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote: ... > * collect input for our mission statement. Alexander and others have > already collected a lot of that. I have created a page on-wiki for > this here: https://community.kde.org/KDE/Mission/Brainstorming I added a very short version of the stuff we had there. I hope the format is more or less as you intended. Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Monday, March 14, 2016 10:24:45 PM Alexander Neundorf wrote: > On Monday, March 14, 2016 14:58:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote: > ... > > > Next steps: > > * publish the vision. I'm still working out what needs doing. > > can we please try to publish vision and mission together ? > If things go well, maybe can get that done until end of April. I wouldn't want to wait any more with this. We have discussed this at length, and I feel that it's time to get it sealed and published and then move on, one step at a time. Let's finalize the first step, then move on to the next. Delaying it makes it demotivating, and to be quite honest, the process has been dragging along in the past, multiple people have simply given up, waiting longer makes more people give up and the last thing we need is even less involvement, or mind-share. Let's go ahead and seal this and publish. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Montag, 14. März 2016 22:39:13 CET Alexander Neundorf wrote: > On Monday, March 14, 2016 14:58:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote: > ... > > > * collect input for our mission statement. Alexander and others have > > already collected a lot of that. I have created a page on-wiki for > > this here: https://community.kde.org/KDE/Mission/Brainstorming > > I added a very short version of the stuff we had there. I hope the format is > more or less as you intended. Thank you for adding your notes to get us started with this! ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
Lydia Pintscher wrote: > Hi everyone, > > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has control > over their digital life." > > Unless there are major objections within the next week I would like to > conclude the process and from now on use this as our vision statement. Not a major objection, but some feedback: It's very wordy at the end especially with all the 'and's in it. For me that's loss of impact. I much preferred what Jos arrived at: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.community/2455/focus=2523 I didn't see what took it back in that wordy direction after that part of the discussion. Thanks! Steve. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:00 AM Lydia Pintscher wrote: > Hi everyone, > > > We've gone through two rounds of feedback and discussion now and I am > very happy with all the input we've collected. Thank you! Thomas, > sebas and I sat together and took all the feedback and merged it into > the final version. It is now: > > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has control > over their digital life." > > Unless there are major objections within the next week I would like to > conclude the process and from now on use this as our vision statement. > Congratulations to everyone involved! I quite like this vision. :-) Much respect, Andrew > ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 08:26:15 AM Stephen Kelly wrote: > Lydia Pintscher wrote: > > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has control > > over their digital life." > > > > Unless there are major objections within the next week I would like to > > conclude the process and from now on use this as our vision statement. > > Not a major objection, but some feedback: It's very wordy at the end > especially with all the 'and's in it. > > For me that's loss of impact. > > I much preferred what Jos arrived at: > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.community/2455/focus=2523 > > I didn't see what took it back in that wordy direction after that part of > the discussion. We discussed it last week, and found that the shorter version proposed by Jos is leaving too much in the middle. While "control over digital life" captures very much the idea, we want it to be concrete as well and reference the core values freedom and privacy. I think it's still short enough. We joked that if we cut out too much, we're reducing it to more or less "good stuff", while I can certainly agree with that, it's lacking a concrete direction. Hence, we went back to the slightly wordier version, which includes freedom and privacy. Note that we can still use just one of these concepts in slogans, think for example about the "digital freedom" t-shirts we had for some time. Cheers, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 08:26:15 Stephen Kelly wrote: > Lydia Pintscher wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has control > > over their digital life." > > > > Unless there are major objections within the next week I would like to > > conclude the process and from now on use this as our vision statement. > > Not a major objection, but some feedback: It's very wordy at the end > especially with all the 'and's in it. I agree, the two "and"'s sound a bit bumpy/"holprig". I very much like that freedom is in there, this fit's my wish to express some kind of independence. How about skipping the "privacy" ? This is with no or only very little interpretation included in "have control". Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On 15 March 2016 21:15:38 GMT+00:00, Alexander Neundorf wrote: >On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 08:26:15 Stephen Kelly wrote: >> Lydia Pintscher wrote: >> > Hi everyone, >> > >> > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has >control >> > over their digital life." >> > >> > Unless there are major objections within the next week I would like >to >> > conclude the process and from now on use this as our vision >statement. >> >> Not a major objection, but some feedback: It's very wordy at the end >> especially with all the 'and's in it. > >I agree, the two "and"'s sound a bit bumpy/"holprig". > >I very much like that freedom is in there, this fit's my wish to >express some >kind of independence. >How about skipping the "privacy" ? This is with no or only very little >interpretation included in "have control". This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys freedom and privacy." -- David Jarvie KAlarm author, KDE developer http://www.astrojar.org.UK/KAlarm ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
Am 15.03.2016 um 22:15 schrieb Alexander Neundorf: > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 08:26:15 Stephen Kelly wrote: >> Lydia Pintscher wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has control >>> over their digital life." >>> >>> Unless there are major objections within the next week I would like to >>> conclude the process and from now on use this as our vision statement. >> >> Not a major objection, but some feedback: It's very wordy at the end >> especially with all the 'and's in it. > > I agree, the two "and"'s sound a bit bumpy/"holprig". To add another point of view: when I first read that statement I just thought, "wow, how eloquent, this is perfect!" It feels easy to read and understand and it is to the point. > I very much like that freedom is in there, this fit's my wish to express some > kind of independence. > How about skipping the "privacy" ? This is with no or only very little > interpretation included in "have control". I would not drop anything from it because freedom and privacy are essential--*especially* privacy since it is so often breached these days; so to state it explicitly is important. cheers, Michael ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:53:03 PM David Jarvie wrote: > This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys > freedom and privacy." I love this. It conveys what we want, and brings in a positive angle to the freedom and privacy goals. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
g On 16 March 2016 at 21:48, Ingo Klöcker wrote: > On Wednesday 16 March 2016 12:09:27 Sebastian Kügler wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:53:03 PM David Jarvie wrote: > > > This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the > > > emphasis: > > > > > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and > > > enjoys freedom and privacy." > > Perfect. > > > > I love this. It conveys what we want, and brings in a positive angle > > to the freedom and privacy goals. > > +1 > Thanks everyone. This great result is motivating. > Regards, > Ingo > > ___ > kde-community mailing list > kde-community@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community > -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
+1 Regards, Clemens. On Mar 16, 2016 1:09 PM, "Sebastian Kügler" wrote: > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:53:03 PM David Jarvie wrote: > > This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: > > > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys > > freedom and privacy." > > I love this. It conveys what we want, and brings in a positive angle to the > freedom and privacy goals. > -- > sebas > > http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org > ___ > kde-community mailing list > kde-community@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 22:53:03 David Jarvie wrote: ... > This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys > freedom and privacy." How about one more tweak ? "A world in which everyone can manage their digital life enjoying freedom and privacy." (IMO "have control" and "privacy" are quite close in what they imply, and "manage" refers a bit more to the actual activities, than "just" control over them.) Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
Am 19.03.2016 um 21:30 schrieb Alexander Neundorf: > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 22:53:03 David Jarvie wrote: > ... >> This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: >> >> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys >> freedom and privacy." > > How about one more tweak ? > > "A world in which everyone can manage their digital life enjoying freedom and > privacy." Well, that's two tweaks (SCNR ;) But I like the idea, so how about really just one tweak: getting rid of the double "and": "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life, enjoying freedom and privacy." Reason: I don't want to just manage it, I want full control. cheers, Michael ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Samstag, 19. März 2016 21:52:09 CET Michael Brade wrote: > Am 19.03.2016 um 21:30 schrieb Alexander Neundorf: > > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 22:53:03 David Jarvie wrote: > > ... > > > >> This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: > >> > >> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys > >> freedom and privacy." > > > > How about one more tweak ? > > > > "A world in which everyone can manage their digital life enjoying freedom > > and privacy." One can "manage" something without having full control over it, so I'd like us to keep the control part in there. > Well, that's two tweaks (SCNR ;) > > But I like the idea, so how about really just one tweak: getting rid of > the double "and": > > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life, enjoying > freedom and privacy." Makes it even better! ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Wednesday 16 March 2016 12:09:27 Sebastian Kügler wrote: > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:53:03 PM David Jarvie wrote: > > This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the > > emphasis: > > > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and > > enjoys freedom and privacy." Perfect. > I love this. It conveys what we want, and brings in a positive angle > to the freedom and privacy goals. +1 Regards, Ingo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
+1 Alex On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 15:54:55 Clemens Toennies wrote: > +1 > > Regards, Clemens. > > On Mar 16, 2016 1:09 PM, "Sebastian Kügler" wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:53:03 PM David Jarvie wrote: > > > This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the > > > emphasis: > > > > > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and > > > enjoys > > > freedom and privacy." > > > > I love this. It conveys what we want, and brings in a positive angle to > > the > > freedom and privacy goals. > > -- > > sebas > > > > http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org > > ___ > > kde-community mailing list > > kde-community@kde.org > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > On Samstag, 19. März 2016 21:52:09 CET Michael Brade wrote: >> Am 19.03.2016 um 21:30 schrieb Alexander Neundorf: >> > On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 22:53:03 David Jarvie wrote: >> > ... >> > >> >> This may read a bit better, although it does slightly alter the emphasis: >> >> >> >> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys >> >> freedom and privacy." >> > >> > How about one more tweak ? >> > >> > "A world in which everyone can manage their digital life enjoying freedom >> > and privacy." > > One can "manage" something without having full control over it, so I'd like us > to keep the control part in there. > >> Well, that's two tweaks (SCNR ;) >> >> But I like the idea, so how about really just one tweak: getting rid of >> the double "and": >> >> >> "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life, enjoying >> freedom and privacy." > > Makes it even better! +1! ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On 2016-03-15, David Jarvie wrote: >>> > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has >>control >>> > over their digital life." > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys > freedom and privacy." I've not been able to follow all these discussions (due to busy life). I did fear a bit what the outcome could have been from these discussions. But. This is amazing. Yes. That's exactly why I'm here. /Sune ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Dienstag, 22. März 2016 17:24:40 CEST Sune Vuorela wrote: > On 2016-03-15, David Jarvie wrote: > >>> > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has > >> > >>control > >> > >>> > over their digital life." > > "A world in which everyone has control over their digital life and enjoys freedom and privacy." > I've not been able to follow all these discussions (due to busy life). I > did fear a bit what the outcome could have been from these discussions. > > But. This is amazing. > > Yes. That's exactly why I'm here. Looks like we've finally found what we've been searching for! Now let's get this out into the world next week and start working on the mission! Thank you everyone involved, it was a tough nut to crack but the patience and effort has paid off! ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 7:58 PM Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > Looks like we've finally found what we've been searching for! > > Now let's get this out into the world next week and start working on the > mission! > > Thank you everyone involved, it was a tough nut to crack but the patience > and > effort has paid off! > I have now created https://community.kde.org/KDE/Vision and am working on a blog post. Cheers Lydia ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 09:56:28AM +, Lydia Pintscher wrote: > I have now created https://community.kde.org/KDE/Vision and am working on a > blog post. Deserves a Dot story no? Jonathan ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:06 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 09:56:28AM +, Lydia Pintscher wrote: > > I have now created https://community.kde.org/KDE/Vision and am working > on a > > blog post. > > Deserves a Dot story no? > Yes actually. Anyone up for writing that? Cheers Lydia ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 10:10:37 Lydia Pintscher wrote: > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:06 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 09:56:28AM +, Lydia Pintscher wrote: > > > I have now created https://community.kde.org/KDE/Vision and am working > > > on a blog post. > > > > Deserves a Dot story no? > > Yes actually. Anyone up for writing that? I don't really understand why we don't even try to get vision and mission done at once. The effort is going on since last Akademy, so extending it by e.g. two months more doesn't look significant to me. There's an article and discussion about KDE on lwn.net currently: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/681622/83ac7fd7a6003b5c/ (I hope it's Ok to post a subscriber link here) Quoting from the main article: "The Plasma 5 release looks, to distributions, like a similar experience. KDE's mission still "remains pretty much an unspoken mystery" and there's no way for distributors to easily cut through that mystery." And some of the commenters agree to this. I think those people might even feel reaffirmed that there is no direction in KDE if we now publish only the vision, which I do like, but which (explicitely) doesn't give any direction. My 2 cents Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Mittwoch, 30. März 2016 20:55:24 CEST Alexander Neundorf wrote: > Quoting from the main article: > "The Plasma 5 release looks, to distributions, like a similar experience. > KDE's mission still "remains pretty much an unspoken mystery" and there's no > way for distributors to easily cut through that mystery." > > And some of the commenters agree to this. > > I think those people might even feel reaffirmed that there is no direction > in KDE if we now publish only the vision, which I do like, but which > (explicitely) doesn't give any direction. On the contrary: I think that in the current situation, we need to show the world that we're actually making progress! Finding a common vision is a very important step, so we need to tell the world "Hey, we're serious about this thing, we've managed step 1 and now we're on to step 2!" Let me bring up the tired old comparison once more, because they are what we're being compared to in that email thread: "GNOME’s mission [is] to bring free and accessible computing to everyone" [1] Our vision is at least as precise as GNOME's mission, so why would people think it gives us less direction than their mission gives them? To quote the last paragraph of the LWN article: "The discussion did not lead to any dramatic changes of direction on KDE's part, at least none that are visible now." That's why I think we should make our efforts visible. Clearly not as "Mission [ha ha] accomplished", but really as a definitive sign of progress. I'll send another email to reignite the flame on the mission effort right after this one, but unless more people speak out against it, I'll also start working on a Dot article about the vision (and the ongoing effort to create a mission) tomorrow. Best, Thomas ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Mittwoch, 30. März 2016 22:33:39 CEST you wrote: > Let me bring up the tired old comparison once more, because they are what > we're being compared to in that email thread: > "GNOME’s mission [is] to bring free and accessible computing to everyone" > [1] Note to self: If you insert a footnote marker, you should insert a footnote. [1] https://www.gnome.org/friends/ ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
Hey :) For everyone who missed it the dot story is live at https://dot.kde.org/2016/04/05/kde-presents-its-vision-future Collective high 5! Cheers Lydia ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
Re: [kde-community] finding a clear vision for KDE - final version
On Monday, March 14, 2016 14:58:57 Lydia Pintscher wrote: > Hi everyone, > > > We've gone through two rounds of feedback and discussion now and I am > very happy with all the input we've collected. Thank you! Thomas, > sebas and I sat together and took all the feedback and merged it into > the final version. It is now: > > "A world in which everyone enjoys freedom and privacy and has control > over their digital life." google just gave me this when searching for "kde vision": http://www.kdevision.com/ ;-) Alex ___ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
