Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[Evert Vorster]

Hi there, Farid.

I usually stay out of flame wars, as nothing good comes out of it. However,
one of the complaints against kdenlive is it's slow preview speed on crappy
hardware.

from the war---
Kdenlive can't utilize a modern PC's hardware - no matter what you throw at
it - 4 Titans, Threadripper and 128 GB of RAM - it'll be no faster than on
a Core Duo and integrated graphics and 8 GB of RAM. It can't play back
smooth 1080p video even when no effects are used. That's not what you'd
expect from a professional video editing software in 2019.

>
> As we have explained to you before, this is an upstream problem. We are
> trying to internally find a solution but you must know that the project is
> maintained by basically one person most of the time. Welcome to the FLOSS
> reality. If you skim through the issues tracker (
> https://invent.kde.org/kde/kdenlive/issues), you'll see that we are aware
> of your woes and are working to fix them, these things take time, again
> because FLOSS. Do you get it now?
>
end of excerpt
Original poster might be embellishing a bit. I have no problems with 4K
HEVC on my aging i7 with only 24GB of RAM.

But, I feel you may be slightly wrong in saying that this is an upstream
problem and that there is not much we can do about it.
This is not entirely an upstream problem, and there are things that can be
done about it:
To make editing and preview smooth on older hardware and emulators, use
proxies and this neat little trick laid out in:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369080

It is a bit long-winded, my apologies for that.
In short, to massively improve preview performance, drop the project
resolution. Like, way down, to VGA size..
Once you are ready to encode, bump it up to your desired resolution.

I have asked for JBM to take a look at having the preview resolution tied
to the preview window size, or proxy resolution (I mean, why would you want
to have a higher resolution than the footage that you are playing back, or
the window displaying it), instead of the project resolution, but he is a
busy man and must have forgotten about it.

To speed up render performance, make a kdenlive profile that does hardware
encode. I have had some successes with it, but then again I don't care how
long it takes for something to encode... I walk away from my computer and
go do something else while it is working away.

Kind regards, all.
Thanks for all the hard work you are putting into this wonderful
software... please don't stop!

Re: Audio alignment: "can not move clip to frame x"

[jdd]

Le 22 septembre 2019 21:14:06 GMT+02:00, DogFilm  a écrit 
:
>What does this message mean?
>I set an audio reference, select "Align audio" and after a while I see
>that
>message in the status bar:
>"can not move clip to frame x"
>Why can the clip not be moved?
>What can the user do when that message appears?

http://www.dodin.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Doc.Kdenlive#toc5

sorry, in French 
-- 
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma 
brièveté.

Re: Audio alignment: "can not move clip to frame x"

[jdd]

Le 22 septembre 2019 21:14:06 GMT+02:00, DogFilm  a écrit 
:
>What does this message mean?
>I set an audio reference, select "Align audio" and after a while I see
>that
>message in the status bar:
>"can not move clip to frame x"
>Why can the clip not be moved?
>What can the user do when that message appears?

usually you have this message when the clip have to be moved to be in sync and 
an other clip block the path

be warned that the sync function works better if the audio is not too far from 
sync

jdd 
-- 
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma 
brièveté.

Re: Audio alignment: "can not move clip to frame x"

[andres tello]

Re-align the clips... The alignment moves automatically, if there isn't
enough space to move the clip to the proper position,  it will not overlap
the clips and have the risk to mess with your timeline

I just move the clips to a part where it has more 'space' at the
timeline... and that's it


On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM DogFilm  wrote:

> What does this message mean?
> I set an audio reference, select "Align audio" and after a while I see
> that message in the status bar:
> "can not move clip to frame x"
> Why can the clip not be moved?
> What can the user do when that message appears?
>
>

Audio alignment: "can not move clip to frame x"

[DogFilm]

What does this message mean?
I set an audio reference, select "Align audio" and after a while I see that
message in the status bar:
"can not move clip to frame x"
Why can the clip not be moved?
What can the user do when that message appears?

Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[farid abdelnour]

Dogfilm, we have received many complaints from people probably because of
your mass flooding of their inboxes. We are temporarily banning you from he
mailing list, but feel free to use the forum to share all your kdenlive
needs/complaints/suggetions.

Unfa,

The following are *my* personal views...

Em ter, 24 de set de 2019 às 08:47, Tobiasz Karoń 
escreveu:

> Well, maybe DogFilm didn't express his opinion in a polite manner...
>

Maybe?

But must say I agree with his point.
>

Yes, as you have stated before... You were contacted by the devs as well
but you have made it a ritual to come punching here with no reason. We know
you love Olive and we are happy for you. Why do ou keep coming back
unnecessarily to speak shit? Does it make you feel better?

>
> Kdenlive is a wonderful tool, and when it works - it's capable of many
> great things. But I wound never call it professional, because that brings a
> whole new level of expectations, which Kdenlive currently cannot fulfill.
>

You wouldn't and don't then! In the website we state: "

Our software was designed to answer most needs, from basic video editing to
professional work.

Kdenlive is developed by a small team and new contributors are welcome."

I am fine with that, I am a professional videomaker (not a youtuber) and
have manage to adapt and find workarounds to finish my projects.

> There's a lot of problems with Kdenlive. Performance is one of them. A
> wonton soup of effects spread across 3 (!) different categories - two
> different ways of doing keyframing and one which doesn't allow it at all.
> Effects such a transform that can visibly shift your color balance when you
> start zooming in (yes), strictly 8-bit pipeline which is very limiting is
> some cases, Effects that are fundamentally broken (UV Map is useless in the
> 8-bit color pipeline, because you can only address 256x256 pixels - it'd be
> better to remove that effect). GPU and even multi-threaded rendering which
> is flaky and tend to break stuff. There's also like 5 different effects
> that do the same thing - image transform. You can never be sure which one
> will work ore which to use. Why not have just one that works all the time?
> Audio dropouts and randomly messed up timing with each render (yes!) and
> much much more.
>
> Kdenlive can't utilize a modern PC's hardware - no matter what you throw
> at it - 4 Titans, Threadripper and 128 GB of RAM - it'll be no faster than
> on a Core Duo and integrated graphics and 8 GB of RAM. It can't play back
> smooth 1080p video even when no effects are used. That's not what you'd
> expect from a professional video editing software in 2019.
>

As we have explained to you before, this is an upstream problem. We are
trying to internally find a solution but you must know that the project is
maintained by basically one person most of the time. Welcome to the FLOSS
reality. If you skim through the issues tracker (
https://invent.kde.org/kde/kdenlive/issues), you'll see that we are aware
of your woes and are working to fix them, these things take time, again
because FLOSS. Do you get it now?

I don't say that Kdenlive is useless, but I think it's certainly not a good
> idea to call it "professional" - because that is simply misleading, creates
> unrealistic expectations, and sets the user for a disapointment - and can
> potentially scare them away from using any libre software in the future.
>

Good point, see what I wrote above...

Olive has much less features, but what is there is clean, well
> thought-through and works every time (unless you hit a bug - it's alpha
> software). Kdenlive is called stable, yet has many redundant or downrigth
> broken features, many of which are flaky. I prefer the Olive's approach -
> and I do recommend it to people as the best available libre NLA at this
> point - but it's not perfect. Though it's "professional" tagline on the
> website is misleading just in the same way and they should change it.
>

Just use Olive then! Be happy! We are not stopping you, really. :)


> I don't think it's a good idea to bash the software or it's developers -
> many use Kdenlive and are happy with it, it's making progress and has done
> a lot of work to fix the problems, but it's not there yet.
>

This is not just about Kdenlive, we are a community, each person is here
for a reason. Some are for the technical challenge, others because of their
philosophical views, we are growing as people as well, nurturing
friendships, etc...  C O M M U N I T Y.

>
> I wish it all the best, but I would not recommend it in it's current state
> to anyone who cares about the quality of their work, because it'll degrade
> with complexity and provide them with a lot of frustration.
> If they don't care at all about quality - no problem, Kdenlive is fine.
>

You must feel very entitled to come to someone's house give your opinion
and leave. No one asked you. Btw, what kind of gear do you have? An ARRI or
RED cameras? What kind f glass do you use to sho

Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[Tobiasz Karoń]

I've already talked to a Kdenlive developer about all these problems a few
months ago.
I'm also in touch with Olive devs, and I've just noticed they fixed that
tagline.

wt., 24 wrz 2019 o 15:16 Narcis Garcia  napisał(a):

> Instead of wasting time (as you say using mailing list), your
> constructive+negative feedback is better attended (today and tomorrow)
> by going to:
>
> .kdenlive.org
> -> Contribute -> Bug reports
> --> bugtracker
> ---> Log In
> > New -> kdenlive
>
> SAME AS OLIVE PROJECT:
>
> www.olivevideoeditor.org
> -> Report bugs
> --> Sign in
> ---> New issue
>
>
> El 24/9/19 a les 12:40, DogFilm ha escrit:
> > Thank you very much for having the guts of speaking freely about these
> > things!
> >
> > It is in fact very needed that developers are not only open, but
> > thankful for negative feedback, because these users are the only ones
> > helping you to
> > make your software better! Clueless noobs that never have seen a pro
> > editing desk but praising kdenlive as "professional" are the problem,
> > not people pointing out the problems!
> >
> > If I had the time I could add several hours of Kdenlive pain videos to
> > your collection, however I need to keep constructive and have enough
> > things to do, even if it would be fun...
> >
> > I think the most important message is to warn creative people not to
> > waste their time - this is needed as a contrast as long as anybody is
> > using the word "professional" to describe kdenlive. Not because of hate
> > against bad software, but out of compassion for fellow video editors
> > that might lose a lot of time.
> >
> > It must be warned very strongly to not use this software in any
> > professional context!
> >
> > I had another test session this weekend with Kdenlive and it was a
> > horrible experience.
> > I felt that this must be kind of a joke software.
> > I think it was finally my last session with Kdenlive.
> > I feel very stupid to have wasted time again with this.
> >
> > Olive looks great, hopefully these guys will be successful!
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 8:49 PM Tobiasz Karoń  > > wrote:
> >
> > I don't want to go on another rant here, but I've made a whole video
> > about why Kdenlvie is "not very good" at this point:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym1brc2OcYQ
> >
> > Frei0r effects force single-core frame processing. And I used a lot
> > of them.
> > GPU acceleration is flaky and never did anything more than crashing
> > for me. But some claim it works for them.
> >
> > Have you tried Olive? It does all frame processing on the GPU - it's
> > not "optional" is the basis. It's snappy!
> >
> > I think Kdenlive would need to replace it's compositing engine
> > with an OpenGL-based one to get decent speed - but that's no small
> task.
> >
> > Granted - I haven't really tested the 19.x branch too much, so
> > thinks might be better, but I've heard stability suffered a lot -
> > which is to be expected after a major core rewrite.
> > It's all growing pains I guess.
> >
> > I hope Kdenlive's gonna come out of this stronger and better :)
> >
> > pon., 23 wrz 2019 o 19:29 j...@dodin.org 
> > mailto:j...@dodin.org>> napisał(a):
> >
> > Le 23/09/2019 à 19:23, DogFilm a écrit :
> > > Rendering a clip does not use 100% of CPU.
> > >
> > > If I render stuff with ffmpeg directly (nothing to do with
> > kdenlive)
> > > ffmpeg uses all cores with 100% cpu load. Kdenlive is about
> > 50% for each
> > > core.  So render time could probably be doubled.
> > >
> > > Yes, "Render Project" dialog was set to "Parallel Processing".
> > >
> > yes. I don't know the technical under the hood, but kdenlive is
> > desperately slow.
> >
> > avidemux3 is very fast for simple tasks, DaVinci Resolve seems
> > to be
> > also very fast, but I don't know it really (and of course it's
> > not open
> > source, it's only free like a free beer :-()
> >
> > jdd
> >
> > --
> > http://dodin.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
> >
> > www.youtube.com/unfa000 
> >
>


-- 
- Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

www.youtube.com/unfa000

Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[Narcis Garcia]

Instead of wasting time (as you say using mailing list), your
constructive+negative feedback is better attended (today and tomorrow)
by going to:

.kdenlive.org
-> Contribute -> Bug reports
--> bugtracker
---> Log In
> New -> kdenlive

SAME AS OLIVE PROJECT:

www.olivevideoeditor.org
-> Report bugs
--> Sign in
---> New issue


El 24/9/19 a les 12:40, DogFilm ha escrit:
> Thank you very much for having the guts of speaking freely about these
> things!
> 
> It is in fact very needed that developers are not only open, but
> thankful for negative feedback, because these users are the only ones
> helping you to
> make your software better! Clueless noobs that never have seen a pro
> editing desk but praising kdenlive as "professional" are the problem,
> not people pointing out the problems!
> 
> If I had the time I could add several hours of Kdenlive pain videos to
> your collection, however I need to keep constructive and have enough
> things to do, even if it would be fun...
> 
> I think the most important message is to warn creative people not to
> waste their time - this is needed as a contrast as long as anybody is
> using the word "professional" to describe kdenlive. Not because of hate
> against bad software, but out of compassion for fellow video editors
> that might lose a lot of time.
> 
> It must be warned very strongly to not use this software in any
> professional context!
> 
> I had another test session this weekend with Kdenlive and it was a
> horrible experience.
> I felt that this must be kind of a joke software.
> I think it was finally my last session with Kdenlive.
> I feel very stupid to have wasted time again with this.
> 
> Olive looks great, hopefully these guys will be successful!
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 8:49 PM Tobiasz Karoń  > wrote:
> 
> I don't want to go on another rant here, but I've made a whole video
> about why Kdenlvie is "not very good" at this point:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym1brc2OcYQ
> 
> Frei0r effects force single-core frame processing. And I used a lot
> of them.
> GPU acceleration is flaky and never did anything more than crashing
> for me. But some claim it works for them.
> 
> Have you tried Olive? It does all frame processing on the GPU - it's
> not "optional" is the basis. It's snappy!
> 
> I think Kdenlive would need to replace it's compositing engine
> with an OpenGL-based one to get decent speed - but that's no small task.
> 
> Granted - I haven't really tested the 19.x branch too much, so
> thinks might be better, but I've heard stability suffered a lot -
> which is to be expected after a major core rewrite.
> It's all growing pains I guess.
> 
> I hope Kdenlive's gonna come out of this stronger and better :)
> 
> pon., 23 wrz 2019 o 19:29 j...@dodin.org 
> mailto:j...@dodin.org>> napisał(a):
> 
> Le 23/09/2019 à 19:23, DogFilm a écrit :
> > Rendering a clip does not use 100% of CPU.
> >
> > If I render stuff with ffmpeg directly (nothing to do with
> kdenlive)
> > ffmpeg uses all cores with 100% cpu load. Kdenlive is about
> 50% for each
> > core.  So render time could probably be doubled.
> >
> > Yes, "Render Project" dialog was set to "Parallel Processing".
> >
> yes. I don't know the technical under the hood, but kdenlive is
> desperately slow.
> 
> avidemux3 is very fast for simple tasks, DaVinci Resolve seems
> to be
> also very fast, but I don't know it really (and of course it's
> not open
> source, it's only free like a free beer :-()
> 
> jdd
> 
> -- 
> http://dodin.org
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
> 
> www.youtube.com/unfa000 
> 

Re: Generate Script doe not generate any file

[Narcis Garcia]

.kdenlive.org
-> Contribute -> Bug reports
--> bugtracker
---> Log In
> New -> kdenlive


El 24/9/19 a les 12:09, DogFilm ha escrit:
> This one is broken, too. "Generate script" in the Project render dialog
> actually does NOT create any file.
> 
> Also it would be good to have an EDL export - this is a very standard
> thing and interchanging project files is something that is needed in
> every project.
> 
> 

Re: Generate Script doe not generate any file

[Tobiasz Karoń]

I've been using this feature in an old version of Kdenlive to speed up
rendering , but with a newer
version it stopped working for me.
I've got no idea where it is now, haven't tested this it.

wt., 24 wrz 2019 o 12:26 j...@dodin.org  napisał(a):

> Le 24/09/2019 à 12:09, DogFilm a écrit :
> > This one is broken, too. "Generate script" in the Project render dialog
> > actually does NOT create any file.
> >
> it does for me.
>
> when you have clicked to "generate a script", the script tag indicates
> where the script is stored
>
> it's most probably under kdenlive-renderqueue
>
> the file looks like this (just a test of mine):
>
> 
>  producer="main_bin" version="6.17.0" root="/home/jdd">
>display_aspect_den="9" colorspace="709" progressive="1" description="HD
> 1080p 50 fps" display_aspect_num="16" frame_rate_den="1" width="1920"
> height="1080" sample_aspect_den="1"/>
>target="/home/jdd/Vidéos/Sans titre.mp4" threads="4" real_time="-8"
> mlt_service="avformat" ab="192k" preset="fast" in="0" out="9743"/>
>in="00:00:00,000" out="00:03:14,860">
>9744
>pause
>
> name="resource">/run/media/jdd/intenso5to2/archives-2019/multimedia/originaux/videos/2019/20190729-mazeres/P1030223.MP4
>1
>0
>1
>avformat-novalidate
>1
>1
>
>3
>661463675
> name="kdenlive:file_hash">0978f4c26a36b94099bc4a1e414cae9e
>-1
> (around 360 lines for a project with no edit at all)
>
> jdd
>
> --
> http://dodin.org
>


-- 
- Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

www.youtube.com/unfa000

Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[Tobiasz Karoń]

Well, maybe DogFilm didn't express his opinion in a polite manner...

But must say I agree with his point.

Kdenlive is a wonderful tool, and when it works - it's capable of many
great things. But I wound never call it professional, because that brings a
whole new level of expectations, which Kdenlive currently cannot fulfill.

There's a lot of problems with Kdenlive. Performance is one of them. A
wonton soup of effects spread across 3 (!) different categories - two
different ways of doing keyframing and one which doesn't allow it at all.
Effects such a transform that can visibly shift your color balance when you
start zooming in (yes), strictly 8-bit pipeline which is very limiting is
some cases, Effects that are fundamentally broken (UV Map is useless in the
8-bit color pipeline, because you can only address 256x256 pixels - it'd be
better to remove that effect). GPU and even multi-threaded rendering which
is flaky and tend to break stuff. There's also like 5 different effects
that do the same thing - image transform. You can never be sure which one
will work ore which to use. Why not have just one that works all the time?
Audio dropouts and randomly messed up timing with each render (yes!) and
much much more.

Kdenlive can't utilize a modern PC's hardware - no matter what you throw at
it - 4 Titans, Threadripper and 128 GB of RAM - it'll be no faster than on
a Core Duo and integrated graphics and 8 GB of RAM. It can't play back
smooth 1080p video even when no effects are used. That's not what you'd
expect from a professional video editing software in 2019.

I don't say that Kdenlive is useless, but I think it's certainly not a good
idea to call it "professional" - because that is simply misleading, creates
unrealistic expectations, and sets the user for a disapointment - and can
potentially scare them away from using any libre software in the future.

Olive has much less features, but what is there is clean, well
thought-through and works every time (unless you hit a bug - it's alpha
software). Kdenlive is called stable, yet has many redundant or downrigth
broken features, many of which are flaky. I prefer the Olive's approach -
and I do recommend it to people as the best available libre NLA at this
point - but it's not perfect. Though it's "professional" tagline on the
website is misleading just in the same way and they should change it.

I don't think it's a good idea to bash the software or it's developers -
many use Kdenlive and are happy with it, it's making progress and has done
a lot of work to fix the problems, but it's not there yet.

I wish it all the best, but I would not recommend it in it's current state
to anyone who cares about the quaility of their work, because it'll degrade
with complexity and provide them with a lot of frustration.
If they don't care at all about quality - no problem, Kdenlive is fine.

I don't want to make anyone sad, I just don't want people to be delusional
about Kdenlive.

- unfa

wt., 24 wrz 2019 o 12:51 Martin Moores  napisał(a):

> I'm sure the list will appreciate this being your last post
>
> How rude, insulting and thoughtless your comments are here.
>
> Feedback is one thing, which I have no doubt is appreciated, but your
> messages are not helpful at all.
>
> As you have found, there are other options out there, great if they work
> for you, go and champion and recommend them to others.  I just hope their
> mailing lists are ready for you when you find the next problem.
>
> Free software is just that at the end of the day, you seem to have higher
> expectations.  There are endless commercial options, with paid support,
> where you may be better suited
>
> On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 at 11:41, DogFilm  wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much for having the guts of speaking freely about these
>> things!
>>
>> It is in fact very needed that developers are not only open, but thankful
>> for negative feedback, because these users are the only ones helping you to
>> make your software better! Clueless noobs that never have seen a pro
>> editing desk but praising kdenlive as "professional" are the problem, not
>> people pointing out the problems!
>>
>> If I had the time I could add several hours of Kdenlive pain videos to
>> your collection, however I need to keep constructive and have enough things
>> to do, even if it would be fun...
>>
>> I think the most important message is to warn creative people not to
>> waste their time - this is needed as a contrast as long as anybody is using
>> the word "professional" to describe kdenlive. Not because of hate against
>> bad software, but out of compassion for fellow video editors that might
>> lose a lot of time.
>>
>> It must be warned very strongly to not use this software in any
>> professional context!
>>
>> I had another test session this weekend with Kdenlive and it was a
>> horrible experience.
>> I felt that this must be kind of a joke software.
>> I think it was finally my last session with Kdenlive.
>> I feel very stupid to

Re: Clip monitor "Multitrack view" rendered into final file

[vincent]

You're in a group of very friendly and helpful people. But as in real 
life, there's an amount of respect for time and effort one has to take 
into account. See this list as the phonenumber of a friend that gives 
you a free tool to use. And see each post as a phonecall. I think you'd 
agree that making a lot of phone calls with a lot of questions can be a 
bit too much eventually. Especially of those questions tend to go into 
the direction of "I don't have time, so it's better if you do it" vibe.


Also don't forget this list is public and therefore each and every email 
goes to everybody. That's a lot of mailboxes.


We're ready to help, but respect the fact that each answer you get is a 
personal investment in time and effort since we're not employees to 
delegate work to. We're all as busy as you are.


So, we welcome you to also invest time and effort into this project in 
whatever way and become part of it. And in the future, you'll be one of 
the people helping someone out with an issue you have now solved.


Have a great one!


Op 24-09-19 om 12:11 schreef DogFilm:

Oh, you have no time teaching me, I understand. Makes me very sad.
I understand where I am here much better now.
Good Luck!

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:09 PM Narcis Garcia > wrote:


Today I have no more time for you than teaching how a FOSS
community works.
But you can ask for paid support for sure, and your service provider
will dedicate you all time and actions you need.

Did you think this mailing list is a free/cheap support service?

If you aren't going to pay for delegating work on others, you also
have
a perfect option for your software requirements:
Fork kdenlive project and continue your own perfect software (and
attend
people's issues)
https://cgit.kde.org/kdenlive.git/


El 23/9/19 a les 19:16, DogFilm ha escrit:
> I have no time registering with that site right now, please copy
paste
> that to your account, should be the same amount of time needed like
> writing that answer, but with better results.
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:19 PM Narcis Garcia
mailto:informat...@actiu.net>
> >>
wrote:
>
> .kdenlive.org 

>     -> Contribute -> Bug reports
>     --> bugtracker
>     ---> Register
>
>
>     El 23/9/19 a les 16:15, DogFilm ha escrit:
>     > well, that seems to be another bug, please someone with a
kde account
>     > copy-paste it into the tracker:
>     >
>     > If "Multitrack view" is selected in the clip monitor, the
rendered
>     file
>     > contains that multitrack view - what I expected was that
>     multitrack view
>     > was a preview mode for multicam editing not having any
impact on the
>     > rendered file.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>


--
met vriendelijke groet,

Vincent Groeneveld
*WWW.HITCOM.NL*

Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[Martin Moores]

I'm sure the list will appreciate this being your last post

How rude, insulting and thoughtless your comments are here.

Feedback is one thing, which I have no doubt is appreciated, but your
messages are not helpful at all.

As you have found, there are other options out there, great if they work
for you, go and champion and recommend them to others.  I just hope their
mailing lists are ready for you when you find the next problem.

Free software is just that at the end of the day, you seem to have higher
expectations.  There are endless commercial options, with paid support,
where you may be better suited

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 at 11:41, DogFilm  wrote:

> Thank you very much for having the guts of speaking freely about these
> things!
>
> It is in fact very needed that developers are not only open, but thankful
> for negative feedback, because these users are the only ones helping you to
> make your software better! Clueless noobs that never have seen a pro
> editing desk but praising kdenlive as "professional" are the problem, not
> people pointing out the problems!
>
> If I had the time I could add several hours of Kdenlive pain videos to
> your collection, however I need to keep constructive and have enough things
> to do, even if it would be fun...
>
> I think the most important message is to warn creative people not to waste
> their time - this is needed as a contrast as long as anybody is using the
> word "professional" to describe kdenlive. Not because of hate against bad
> software, but out of compassion for fellow video editors that might lose a
> lot of time.
>
> It must be warned very strongly to not use this software in any
> professional context!
>
> I had another test session this weekend with Kdenlive and it was a
> horrible experience.
> I felt that this must be kind of a joke software.
> I think it was finally my last session with Kdenlive.
> I feel very stupid to have wasted time again with this.
>
> Olive looks great, hopefully these guys will be successful!
>
> Good Luck!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 8:49 PM Tobiasz Karoń  wrote:
>
>> I don't want to go on another rant here, but I've made a whole video
>> about why Kdenlvie is "not very good" at this point:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym1brc2OcYQ
>>
>> Frei0r effects force single-core frame processing. And I used a lot of
>> them.
>> GPU acceleration is flaky and never did anything more than crashing for
>> me. But some claim it works for them.
>>
>> Have you tried Olive? It does all frame processing on the GPU - it's not
>> "optional" is the basis. It's snappy!
>>
>> I think Kdenlive would need to replace it's compositing engine with an
>> OpenGL-based one to get decent speed - but that's no small task.
>>
>> Granted - I haven't really tested the 19.x branch too much, so thinks
>> might be better, but I've heard stability suffered a lot - which is to be
>> expected after a major core rewrite.
>> It's all growing pains I guess.
>>
>> I hope Kdenlive's gonna come out of this stronger and better :)
>>
>> pon., 23 wrz 2019 o 19:29 j...@dodin.org  napisał(a):
>>
>>> Le 23/09/2019 à 19:23, DogFilm a écrit :
>>> > Rendering a clip does not use 100% of CPU.
>>> >
>>> > If I render stuff with ffmpeg directly (nothing to do with kdenlive)
>>> > ffmpeg uses all cores with 100% cpu load. Kdenlive is about 50% for
>>> each
>>> > core.  So render time could probably be doubled.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, "Render Project" dialog was set to "Parallel Processing".
>>> >
>>> yes. I don't know the technical under the hood, but kdenlive is
>>> desperately slow.
>>>
>>> avidemux3 is very fast for simple tasks, DaVinci Resolve seems to be
>>> also very fast, but I don't know it really (and of course it's not open
>>> source, it's only free like a free beer :-()
>>>
>>> jdd
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://dodin.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
>>
>> www.youtube.com/unfa000
>>
>

Re: Clip monitor "Multitrack view" rendered into final file

[DogFilm]

It is difficult to compete because the skills needed are missing, not
"because open source".
Like a guy on a bike trying to fly to the moon.


On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 12:36 PM j...@dodin.org  wrote:

> Le 24/09/2019 à 12:11, DogFilm a écrit :
> > Oh, you have no time teaching me, I understand. Makes me very sad.
>
> you are welcome to ask for help, but there are here no paid people for
> this job.
>
> So you tune may upset most of us.
>
> kdenlive is a very hard work for a very small team, mostly working at
> free time. You may also try cinelerra or blender.
>
> I try to use open source software as much as I can, and used kdenlive
> for around 10 years, now, but when major company pushes it's product
> like DaVinci Resolve now (free version), it's difficult to compete.
>
> That said I use extensively the ffmpeg scripts as soon as the first edit
> is done
>
> jdd (not involved at all in kdenlive development)
>
> --
> http://dodin.org
>

Re: Rendering does not use full CPU

[DogFilm]

Thank you very much for having the guts of speaking freely about these
things!

It is in fact very needed that developers are not only open, but thankful
for negative feedback, because these users are the only ones helping you to
make your software better! Clueless noobs that never have seen a pro
editing desk but praising kdenlive as "professional" are the problem, not
people pointing out the problems!

If I had the time I could add several hours of Kdenlive pain videos to your
collection, however I need to keep constructive and have enough things to
do, even if it would be fun...

I think the most important message is to warn creative people not to waste
their time - this is needed as a contrast as long as anybody is using the
word "professional" to describe kdenlive. Not because of hate against bad
software, but out of compassion for fellow video editors that might lose a
lot of time.

It must be warned very strongly to not use this software in any
professional context!

I had another test session this weekend with Kdenlive and it was a horrible
experience.
I felt that this must be kind of a joke software.
I think it was finally my last session with Kdenlive.
I feel very stupid to have wasted time again with this.

Olive looks great, hopefully these guys will be successful!

Good Luck!










On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 8:49 PM Tobiasz Karoń  wrote:

> I don't want to go on another rant here, but I've made a whole video about
> why Kdenlvie is "not very good" at this point:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym1brc2OcYQ
>
> Frei0r effects force single-core frame processing. And I used a lot of
> them.
> GPU acceleration is flaky and never did anything more than crashing for
> me. But some claim it works for them.
>
> Have you tried Olive? It does all frame processing on the GPU - it's not
> "optional" is the basis. It's snappy!
>
> I think Kdenlive would need to replace it's compositing engine with an
> OpenGL-based one to get decent speed - but that's no small task.
>
> Granted - I haven't really tested the 19.x branch too much, so thinks
> might be better, but I've heard stability suffered a lot - which is to be
> expected after a major core rewrite.
> It's all growing pains I guess.
>
> I hope Kdenlive's gonna come out of this stronger and better :)
>
> pon., 23 wrz 2019 o 19:29 j...@dodin.org  napisał(a):
>
>> Le 23/09/2019 à 19:23, DogFilm a écrit :
>> > Rendering a clip does not use 100% of CPU.
>> >
>> > If I render stuff with ffmpeg directly (nothing to do with kdenlive)
>> > ffmpeg uses all cores with 100% cpu load. Kdenlive is about 50% for
>> each
>> > core.  So render time could probably be doubled.
>> >
>> > Yes, "Render Project" dialog was set to "Parallel Processing".
>> >
>> yes. I don't know the technical under the hood, but kdenlive is
>> desperately slow.
>>
>> avidemux3 is very fast for simple tasks, DaVinci Resolve seems to be
>> also very fast, but I don't know it really (and of course it's not open
>> source, it's only free like a free beer :-()
>>
>> jdd
>>
>> --
>> http://dodin.org
>>
>
>
> --
> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
>
> www.youtube.com/unfa000
>

Re: Clip monitor "Multitrack view" rendered into final file

[j...@dodin.org]

Le 24/09/2019 à 12:11, DogFilm a écrit :

Oh, you have no time teaching me, I understand. Makes me very sad.


you are welcome to ask for help, but there are here no paid people for 
this job.


So you tune may upset most of us.

kdenlive is a very hard work for a very small team, mostly working at 
free time. You may also try cinelerra or blender.


I try to use open source software as much as I can, and used kdenlive 
for around 10 years, now, but when major company pushes it's product 
like DaVinci Resolve now (free version), it's difficult to compete.


That said I use extensively the ffmpeg scripts as soon as the first edit 
is done


jdd (not involved at all in kdenlive development)

--
http://dodin.org

Re: Generate Script doe not generate any file

[j...@dodin.org]

Le 24/09/2019 à 12:09, DogFilm a écrit :
This one is broken, too. "Generate script" in the Project render dialog 
actually does NOT create any file.



it does for me.

when you have clicked to "generate a script", the script tag indicates 
where the script is stored


it's most probably under kdenlive-renderqueue

the file looks like this (just a test of mine):


producer="main_bin" version="6.17.0" root="/home/jdd">
 display_aspect_den="9" colorspace="709" progressive="1" description="HD 
1080p 50 fps" display_aspect_num="16" frame_rate_den="1" width="1920" 
height="1080" sample_aspect_den="1"/>
 target="/home/jdd/Vidéos/Sans titre.mp4" threads="4" real_time="-8" 
mlt_service="avformat" ab="192k" preset="fast" in="0" out="9743"/>
 in="00:00:00,000" out="00:03:14,860">

  9744
  pause
  name="resource">/run/media/jdd/intenso5to2/archives-2019/multimedia/originaux/videos/2019/20190729-mazeres/P1030223.MP4

  1
  0
  1
  avformat-novalidate
  1
  1
  
  3
  661463675
  name="kdenlive:file_hash">0978f4c26a36b94099bc4a1e414cae9e

  -1
(around 360 lines for a project with no edit at all)

jdd

--
http://dodin.org

Re: Clip monitor "Multitrack view" rendered into final file

[DogFilm]

Oh, you have no time teaching me, I understand. Makes me very sad.
I understand where I am here much better now.
Good Luck!

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:09 PM Narcis Garcia  wrote:

> Today I have no more time for you than teaching how a FOSS community works.
> But you can ask for paid support for sure, and your service provider
> will dedicate you all time and actions you need.
>
> Did you think this mailing list is a free/cheap support service?
>
> If you aren't going to pay for delegating work on others, you also have
> a perfect option for your software requirements:
> Fork kdenlive project and continue your own perfect software (and attend
> people's issues)
> https://cgit.kde.org/kdenlive.git/
>
>
> El 23/9/19 a les 19:16, DogFilm ha escrit:
> > I have no time registering with that site right now, please copy paste
> > that to your account, should be the same amount of time needed like
> > writing that answer, but with better results.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:19 PM Narcis Garcia  > > wrote:
> >
> > .kdenlive.org 
> > -> Contribute -> Bug reports
> > --> bugtracker
> > ---> Register
> >
> >
> > El 23/9/19 a les 16:15, DogFilm ha escrit:
> > > well, that seems to be another bug, please someone with a kde
> account
> > > copy-paste it into the tracker:
> > >
> > > If "Multitrack view" is selected in the clip monitor, the rendered
> > file
> > > contains that multitrack view - what I expected was that
> > multitrack view
> > > was a preview mode for multicam editing not having any impact on
> the
> > > rendered file.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Generate Script doe not generate any file

[DogFilm]

This one is broken, too. "Generate script" in the Project render dialog
actually does NOT create any file.

Also it would be good to have an EDL export - this is a very standard thing
and interchanging project files is something that is needed in every
project.