Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
On 22/08/13 15:21, Hilton Gibson wrote: Just thinking, would it have been too much trouble to trademark a new name and then carry on as usual? This was discussed around http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Foundation-conversation-td3213032i30.html#message3215936 http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Koha-demo-links-on-koha-org-td3060269.html and will always remain as a last-resort option, but I think there was a strong feeling similar to why should we give in to terrorists? among some of the koha community. Personally, I feel it seems utterly inappropriate to abandon this Maori word to trade mark law. It makes as little sense as the recent attempt of Red Bull to claim the word Red as a trade mark in England and force the Redwell Brewery near me to change their name (I think you'll find the details if you search for Red Bully or #RedBully) which also failed. There's also the simple fact that LibLime only registered the name as a trade mark many years after many other companies had already built it up in commerce, including social enterprises like software.coop and BibLibre, and only one of those had sold their claim to LibLime (which was in turn bought by PTFS). The co-op didn't register the name as a trade mark locally because we get some rights simply from use and we also want to collaborate freely with other GOOD players, which I feel the increasing criminalisation of trade marks hinders. Hope that explains, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
On 22 August 2013 19:04, Hilton Gibson hilton.gib...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to deviate from what the packages installation does? In the open source world, it has been my experience that a tarball installation is always preferred, since it allows you install anywhere, not just Debian. I must have spent the last 20 years in another open source world then. In my experience, using a packaged system for your distro is almost always preferred because it is much much much easier to upgrade. Also you were writing instructions for ubuntu, a debian based distro, which the packages work fine for, and even adding the repository as an apt source. You are of course free to install any way you want, but we are also free to tell people that using the packages is a better idea if you can. Since they configure all the cron jobs, back ups, allow multiple sites on one machine, and many many more things. Chris ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Just my unsolicited commentary on the provision of a really bad set of instructions on how to set Koha up. Oops? ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Hi Magnus This depends, do you intend to have an original tarball installation wiki page? If so, will there be one for each stable version of Koha and a version for each upgrade? Cheers hg On 22 August 2013 09:42, Magnus Enger mag...@enger.priv.no wrote: On 22 August 2013 09:04, Hilton Gibson hilton.gib...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to deviate from what the packages installation does? In the open source world, it has been my experience that a tarball installation is always preferred, since it allows you install anywhere, not just Debian. There is more than one way to do it, sure. And documentation is always welcome. But why not put it on the official Koha wiki, where it will receive (at least some degree of) peer review, improvements from the whole community and a lasting home? Having instructions created by individuals littered all over the web quickly leads to stale information, people following wrong or outdated instructions and in the end getting a bad impression of Koha. So maybe you could copy your wiki page over to the official wiki, link to it from your wiki, and we can all collaborate to ensure it has maximum usefullness? Best regards, Magnus Enger libriotech.no PS: The correct name is Koha, not KOHA. ;-) ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha -- *Hilton Gibson* Ubuntu Linux Systems Administrator JS Gericke Library Room 1025D Stellenbosch University Private Bag X5036 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa Tel: +27 21 808 4100 | Cell: +27 84 646 4758 http://library.sun.ac.za http://za.linkedin.com/in/hiltongibson http://staff.lib.sun.ac.za/~hgibson/docs/cv/cv.html ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
On 22 August 2013 10:15, Hilton Gibson hilton.gib...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Magnus This depends, do you intend to have an original tarball installation wiki page? If so, will there be one for each stable version of Koha and a version for each upgrade? All of this depends on who wants to contribute what to the wiki. Personally, I run packages on Debian, so I intend to contribute to the documentation for that. If you want to create and maintain the pages you mention I am sure there is room for it on the official wiki. (The majority of contributors to the wiki might want to add a note of caution to those pages, saying that packages is the preferred mode of intallation though :-) Best regards, Magnus Enger libriotech.no ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Greetings, There are tarball instructions on the Wiki for Ubuntu already. However, in an effort to get people to not go backwards, I am not providing the link. http://wiki.koha-community.org/ is where the Koha wiki is. As Chris has pointed out, upgrading is so much easier with packages. This was the biggest selling point for me, because nothing says easy like: $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get install koha-common -- This will upgrade koha-common, and other related dependencies. This won't work for the dependencies if you've CPAN'd several of the libraries, but that's another lesson which goes to emphasize that installing from source, when you can install from packages, means installing from source indefinitely, which is time consuming! As Magnus has pointed out, littering the internet with stale instructions is bad in general, because it can cause people to get the wrong impression of Koha,when the real problem is poor, unreviewed documentation. Magnus wrote: PS: The correct name is Koha, not KOHA. ;-) Yes. Koha is a word, not an acronym. This is why KOHA is wrong, unless you are attempting to shout the awesomeness of it. ;) GPML, Mark Tompsett ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Yes. Koha is a word, not an acronym. This is why KOHA is wrong, unless you are attempting to shout the awesomeness of it. ;) Nope - it is just best practice to ensure that users know of the product. By the way - why is there a koha-community and a koha out there. Very confusing. On 22 August 2013 14:58, Mark Tompsett mtomp...@hotmail.com wrote: Greetings, There are tarball instructions on the Wiki for Ubuntu already. However, in an effort to get people to not go backwards, I am not providing the link. http://wiki.koha-community.**org/ http://wiki.koha-community.org/ is where the Koha wiki is. As Chris has pointed out, upgrading is so much easier with packages. This was the biggest selling point for me, because nothing says easy like: $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get install koha-common -- This will upgrade koha-common, and other related dependencies. This won't work for the dependencies if you've CPAN'd several of the libraries, but that's another lesson which goes to emphasize that installing from source, when you can install from packages, means installing from source indefinitely, which is time consuming! As Magnus has pointed out, littering the internet with stale instructions is bad in general, because it can cause people to get the wrong impression of Koha,when the real problem is poor, unreviewed documentation. Magnus wrote: PS: The correct name is Koha, not KOHA. ;-) Yes. Koha is a word, not an acronym. This is why KOHA is wrong, unless you are attempting to shout the awesomeness of it. ;) GPML, Mark Tompsett -- *Hilton Gibson* Ubuntu Linux Systems Administrator JS Gericke Library Room 1025D Stellenbosch University Private Bag X5036 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa Tel: +27 21 808 4100 | Cell: +27 84 646 4758 http://library.sun.ac.za http://za.linkedin.com/in/hiltongibson http://staff.lib.sun.ac.za/~hgibson/docs/cv/cv.html ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Hilton Gibson hilton.gib...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to deviate from what the packages installation does? In the open source world, it has been my experience that a tarball installation is always preferred, since it allows you install anywhere, not just Debian. I agree with that point of view, but as I expressed before, we (the community) prefer people contributing to an up to date and peer-reviewed community wiki. We even have a wiki page for the same purpose you created your own. But you skip that part of the answers you receive... Preventing several documentation pages has historical reasons, mostly explained by Mark: in a few months instructions will be deprecated and people might reach them and get confused and frustrated. We've been there many times. As some people has replied, you should better contribute to the official wiki [1]. Regarding koha.org vs. koha-community.org there is some literature on the subject [2]. Regards To+ [1] I have to confess my first impression was that your email posting your own wiki was just a SEO trick, but tried to be polite anyway. [2] http://diligentroom.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/the-exemplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-liblime-trademark/ ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Hilton Gibson schrieb am 22.08.2013 Yes. Koha is a word, not an acronym. This is why KOHA is wrong, unless you are attempting to shout the awesomeness of it. ;) Nope - it is just best practice to ensure that users know of the product. Wrong, because… By the way - why is there a koha-community and a koha out there. Very confusing. …that is part of the problem. There is Koha. Koha is a community product, the official website is koha-community.org. Koha is free and open source software. This is the official mailing list for Koha. And there is a non-free, non-friendly fork of a company called liblime, now owned by PTFS. They were part of the community up to some point and then decided it would be best for them to leave the free software world behind. They took the domain koha.org with them, pretending to do still do Koha and at some point also started using KOHA. They have other names for their products too, but when you speak of KOHA, people that have been around here for some time think of that fork. And they do not think good things about it. I won't go into more detail here. The fork is no community product, there is no support available for it apart from paying that company (as far as I know) and they diverted from Koha years ago. So if you talk about the FOSS community product, please use Koha, not KOHA, because that is the most confusing thing about it. -- Mirko ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Re: [Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Hi to all those who have replied and apologies for cross-posting. Please see: http://bit.ly/goodir That documentation is being actively used to install and setup DSpace world wide. The DSpace developers have official documentation and there is no animosity about anybody else having documentation as far as I know. In addition, please see: http://www.journals.ac.za for OJS and OCS. Same here, the PKP developers have no objections to this documentation. From the story of the trademark hijack, I can understand the grievance all my feel at what seems to be my intrusion. I apologise for any erroneous perceptions created. An old Roman adage goes, divide and conquer, or as Paul Maritz said, Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. These attacks are to be expected in our dysfunctional software world at the moment. Just thinking, would it have been too much trouble to trademark a new name and then carry on as usual? Regards Hilton PS: It normal procedure for me to create docs for things I install and setup. Linux is so stable, that I forget exactly how I did it months later ;-) On 22 August 2013 16:06, Tomas Cohen Arazi tomasco...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Hilton Gibson hilton.gib...@gmail.com wrote: What if you want to deviate from what the packages installation does? In the open source world, it has been my experience that a tarball installation is always preferred, since it allows you install anywhere, not just Debian. I agree with that point of view, but as I expressed before, we (the community) prefer people contributing to an up to date and peer-reviewed community wiki. We even have a wiki page for the same purpose you created your own. But you skip that part of the answers you receive... Preventing several documentation pages has historical reasons, mostly explained by Mark: in a few months instructions will be deprecated and people might reach them and get confused and frustrated. We've been there many times. As some people has replied, you should better contribute to the official wiki [1]. Regarding koha.org vs. koha-community.org there is some literature on the subject [2]. Regards To+ [1] I have to confess my first impression was that your email posting your own wiki was just a SEO trick, but tried to be polite anyway. [2] http://diligentroom.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/the-exemplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-liblime-trademark/ -- *Hilton Gibson* Ubuntu Linux Systems Administrator JS Gericke Library Room 1025D Stellenbosch University Private Bag X5036 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa Tel: +27 21 808 4100 | Cell: +27 84 646 4758 http://library.sun.ac.za http://za.linkedin.com/in/hiltongibson http://staff.lib.sun.ac.za/~hgibson/docs/cv/cv.html ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
[Koha] Don't pass out bad instructions (was Re: How frequently to run zebra rebuild and what switches)
Greetings, As of Koha 3.4.x debian packages were available. That's just over 2 years ago. Koha has progressed so much further. Tarballs are not the recommended installation method for debian-based versions of linux (e.g. Ubuntu). Much nicer and more current installation instructions are available here: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_ubuntu_-_packages No matter how boldly or coloured you make the text, people won't read. And this will only cause confusion and problems. Just my unsolicited commentary on the provision of a really bad set of instructions on how to set Koha up. GPML, Mark Tompsett ___ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
