KR> Turbo vs NA - fuel efficiency

[Andy Mckevitz]

I posted this last week when the topic was active and never saw it.  If I 
missed it, forgive this space please!


I've enjoyed the posts.  This is my .02 when it comes to cost-benefit and 
efficiency.


It occurred to me one day when I had the choice of flying east one beautiful 
day when I had no wind up to 15k' [okay, maybe 3kts] for a 200nm trip in my 
C-150.  No one ever taught what altitude to fly for best efficiency, government 
this, regs that, etc...  What was the best alt from gnd-effect [not possible 
for the obvious terrain changes] to 15k'?  Yes, my 150 would make it!  Whats 
the best fuel consumption altitude?  I won't address speed for this particular 
post as it?s a fine line to opening up different discussion altogether.  I'll 
just post you what I have done as it helps answer to turbo, or not to turbo. 

I have access to a few planes POH's:  my C-150, a twin comanche, a turbo twin 
comanche [normalized only], C-210 [turbo >35in single], and a good ole 
gas-drunk piper apache!

I felt crazy plotting these data because no one has yet answered my question as 
to what alt. and speed to fly at to earn the most MPG in a no wind environment 
and explain why.  Is climbing for the TAS benefit worth it?  in short, no.  
Turbo is closer to fuel saving however, and this surprised me.

Over the next probably 20hrs of flight planning scenarios [an excited new pilot 
has this energy], I planned my own trip I faced that day with each plane, and 
again for flights at 1k,3k, up to ceiling, and svc. ceiling.  Parabolic 
ascents, descents, jet-type ascent/descent profiles, etc.  After that, I 
planned full fuel tank burn for each plane.  Aside from the predicted ground 
effect winning efficiency in all cases, I found its best to stay as low as 
possible because the fuel spent climbing does not earn its keep for the TAS 
payoff when climbing to altitude for a no wind condition.  I tried different 
climb speeds, etc to cover all angles.  I learned much in the process.  Two 
upsets though:  The turbo planes [both normalized and boosted] climbing to 
their high cruise altitude provided to be equally efficient as the NA planes 
that didn't climb.  They were in turn faster in the process as well.  the 
turbo's payoff occurs when the tanks are fully used
 because its more time spent at altitude benefiting from the TAS gain.  Now 
does fuel price offset the price of the turbo?  That depends on how much the 
pilots time is worth.

My opinion, is that the cost of the turbo, certified and experimental 
application is not worth the benefit regarding effieciency.  On the other hand, 
if you live on an ocean island would you want a turbo?  What if you lived in 
the Rocky mountains?  Environment and safety can persuade otherwise and other 
people have posted positives and negatives I won't repeat here.  At Oshkosh 
last year, I talked to a guy named Jer from Colorado in the Cessna Pilots 
Assoc. I flew in with that is a CFII, and specializes in mountain flying 
instruction.  If you look him up, you didn't hear he was an 'old guy' from me 
:)  He also does not desire turbos and this lead to an interesting conversation 
of mountain flying in normally aspirated planes.  Contact me and I'll flip you 
his email from his biz card if you care to share a conversation like I did.

My twin turbo Nissan 300zx is just an experience everyone should enjoy.  I do 
like turbos.  They are fun!  I like the power if the engine can withstand it 
like the car can.  Having a turbo on a twin and losing an engine in Idaho is 
better than crashing because single engine performance is not what the poh says 
when you need it most.  Seeing a kr with a turbo definitely seems 
sophisticated, complicated and something to be proud of because it does have 
its element to once again, outperform a certified plane in all regimes.  
Cost-benefit?  eh, when it all comes down to it, as an airport manager, I see 
too many obstacles to general aviation to warrant making a plane that takes 
great sunset pictures endure less flying time because a more complex system 
requires more maintenance and threatens the pilot/owner with added cost and 
time. 


Get em flying!

Andy 

KR> VE layup

[Dan Heath]

I learned to use plastic sheet when doing a glass layup.  Today, for the
first time, I used that method with Vinyl Ester.  What a mess.  The sheet
reacts to the VE and curls.  I don't recommend this method when using VE.



All but the one large hole in the bottom of the wings are now patched and
the tops of both wings are ready for finish work and painting.  I start leak
testing the tanks today.



Daniel R. Heath

da...@windstream.net

See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 

See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN

KR> VE layup

[Steve Glover]

The MEKP eats it. It does the same thing to blue foam. 

Steve
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Dan Heath" 
Sender: krnet-boun...@mylist.net
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:38:41 
To: 'KRnet'
Reply-To: KRnet 
Subject: KR> VE layup

I learned to use plastic sheet when doing a glass layup.  Today, for the
first time, I used that method with Vinyl Ester.  What a mess.  The sheet
reacts to the VE and curls.  I don't recommend this method when using VE.



All but the one large hole in the bottom of the wings are now patched and
the tops of both wings are ready for finish work and painting.  I start leak
testing the tanks today.



Daniel R. Heath

da...@windstream.net

See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 

See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN







___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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KR> VE layup

[Glenn Martin]

Dan Heath wrote:
> I learned to use plastic sheet when doing a glass layup.  Today, for the
> first time, I used that method with Vinyl Ester.  What a mess.  The sheet
> reacts to the VE and curls.  I don't recommend this method when using VE.
>
>
So peel ply is the thing to use with VE?


-- 
Glenn Martin (N5PQ)
Martek Mississippi Electronic Repair
13238 Hudson-Krohn Rd.
Biloxi, MS, 39532
rep...@martekmississippi.com

KR> VE layup

[Dan Heath]

Well, yes, peel ply works well.  I just removed it, and it came off, just as
it should and the surface is as it should be.  However, this is not the same
thing.  I do not recommend plastic sheet, or any other thing like waxed
paper or seran wrap, to get a smooth finish, cause you will not get the
results you expect.  I have tried them all, and indeed, a layer of deck
cloth with peel ply on top, is the best result I have found.  

The plastic sheet is just for doing the layup, and it gets removed as you
put down the wetted out glass.  You use it to keep the wet glass in the same
shape as it started and to make it easier for you to manipulate and get it
on the surface exactly where you want it.  It also allows you to get a nice
clean cut along the edges, keeping all of the fraying at bay.

There is an example of what I am talking about on this page, where I am
doing the layup for my seats.  http://krbuilder.org/seats/index.html  Using
AeroPoxy, not VE.


See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Glenn Martin
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:22 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> VE layup

Dan Heath wrote:
> I learned to use plastic sheet when doing a glass layup.  Today, for the
> first time, I used that method with Vinyl Ester.  What a mess.  The sheet
> reacts to the VE and curls.  I don't recommend this method when using VE.
>
>
So peel ply is the thing to use with VE?


-- 
Glenn Martin (N5PQ)
Martek Mississippi Electronic Repair
13238 Hudson-Krohn Rd.
Biloxi, MS, 39532
rep...@martekmississippi.com


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KR> VE layup

[Russ Sing]

Is there a certain fiberglass that I should use on my kr2 or can I go to a 
local 
body shop to get my fiberglass supplies?  


Thanks

 Russell's Photography
Mexico, MO
573.253-4501
http://www.russellsphotos.zenfolio.com





From: Dan Heath 
To: KRnet 
Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 11:38:41 AM
Subject: KR> VE layup

I learned to use plastic sheet when doing a glass layup.  Today, for the
first time, I used that method with Vinyl Ester.  What a mess.  The sheet
reacts to the VE and curls.  I don't recommend this method when using VE.



All but the one large hole in the bottom of the wings are now patched and
the tops of both wings are ready for finish work and painting.  I start leak
testing the tanks today.



Daniel R. Heath

da...@windstream.net

See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 

See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN







___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html