KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Randy Powell]

You could alternatively pressurize the tank with nitrogen and then use a 
refrigerant sniffer to go over all the seams.  It will find the smallest of 
leaks quickly and easily.

Sent from my Ipad
Randy Powell
Wachapreague Va 23480


On Jan 30, 2014, at 8:59 PM, Larry Flesner  
wrote:

> 
>> 
>> The reason gas leaks when water doesn't more likely has to do with the fact 
>> that
>> water molecules tend to stick together due to intermolecular forces that
>> are much stronger for water than they are for oxygen or nitrogen or carbon
>> dioxide or fuel.
>> TK
> 
> 
> So, after all this discussion, I've concluded that the only way to really 
> test a tank for leaks is the way I originally tested mine.  Take the airplane 
> to the airport and assemble it in the hangar.  Fill the wing tanks with fuel 
> and close up the hangar.  The following day, when you return and find fuel 
> dripping on the hangar floor, you empty the tank, take the wing home, find 
> the leak with a hose stuck in your ear and scanning the tank.  Fix the leak, 
> return the wing to the airport, assemble and fill with fuel.  The following 
> day you return to the airport, find fuel dripping on the hangar floor, empty 
> the tank and take the wing back to the workshop.  Cut out the bottom of the 
> wing to access the tank, cut out the bottom of the tank ,  re coat the entire 
> tank with epoxy, attach an additional layer of glass to the removed tank 
> bottom and use to close up the tank.  Add foam, reshape to wing contour, re 
> glass the wing, take back to the airport, assemble and refill the tank.  Now, 
> that's the way to find and fix a leak.  No problems since after 10 years and 
> 500 hours of flight.  Who says building is more fun than flying???
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
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> options

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Larry Flesner]

At 08:17 PM 1/30/2014, you wrote:
>Or you guys could just build it like mine.  Built out of 1/4" foam 
>and vinylester, start to finish in two days, no leaks of any 
>kind.   I might have $60 in it, and two days of my time, much of 
>which was spent doing other things.
>Mark Langford
++

Now, doesn't that just go and ruin all the fun of building. :-(

Larry Flesner

KR> KR handling

[Larry Flesner]

With some of the recent discussion on flight characteristics, some 
builders might get the idea that the KR is hard to fly. NOT TRUE.  In 
most of the flight envelope the KR handles much like  any other 
airplane you've flown, very conventional.  It is in the very edges of 
the envelope, slow and fast, that you may expect different handling 
depending on any changes you may have made to the original 
plans.  That is the area the "test period" is designed for and the 
time in which you will determine what is normal and "safe" for your 
particular KR.  An entry and your signature in the aircraft log at 
the end of the test phase will have you attesting to the fact that 
you performed the test and authorize or restrict certain maneuvers.

I think that most pilots that fly KR's would agree that the KR is as 
much or more fun to fly than any other type of aircraft they have flown.

Larry Flesner

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Paul & Karen Smith]

Thank you for being so brave and sharing this lesson with all of us.

Had you added a small portion of dish washing detergent to the water you
could have got away with just a PSI or two.

We used to use it in the airforce to detect oxy leaks and tradies use it to
detect gas leaks in home/caravan systems.

Paul.


-Original Message-

prepared the little water spray can and start spraying the seams with water
to see if I detect any bubbles. 

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[smwood]

My welded aluminum wing tanks have identical dimensions, but one holds 8.3 
gallons and the other holds 7.9.  The machine shop that constructed the 
tanks used 30 psi air to leak test and permanently bulged the top and bottom 
(formerly) flat plates.  Uneven bulges make the difference in capacities. 
At home I used my lung power to supply compressed air through my home made 
manomometer.  Mark Langford has manomometer construction and usage on his 
web site.  I found 7 additional leaks using dish detergent that the machine 
shop had missed.  The leaks were re-welded with no further issues. 
Fortunately the bulged tanks still would fit in the intended wing locations.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
---
> So here I am, finished my wing tanks and very proud of the welding work.
> Somebody mentioned that I should pressure test the tank to ensure it is 
> leak
> free. I usually take good advice to heart, so I hooked up the compressor,
> blocked off all the inlet, breather and other openings, prepared the 
> little
> water spray can and started the compressor. Slowly I start pressing the
> lever on the gun and start spraying the seams with water to see if I 
> detect
> any bubbles. Finally I found a corner with a fine mist. I couldn't see
> exactly where this offending pinhole is and I increased the pressure a bit
> whilst spraying some more water on the offending seam. After about 3-4
> minutes of this adding pressure then spraying water and closely watching 
> for
> the mist, I heard a "clunk" sound. Ignoring the sound (I am not stupid I
> know the tank will move a bit with pressure inside) I concentrate on this
> point on the seam and another two "clunks" further I finally pinpoint the
> pinhole.
>
> Pierre
--
> Thank you for being so brave and sharing this lesson with all of us.
>
> Had you added a small portion of dish washing detergent to the water you
> could have got away with just a PSI or two.
>
> We used to use it in the airforce to detect oxy leaks and tradies use it 
> to
> detect gas leaks in home/caravan systems.
>
> Paul.
>
> -Original Message-
>
> prepared the little water spray can and start spraying the seams with 
> water
> to see if I detect any bubbles.
- 
>
> Just FYI anyone who needs to test your fuel tank for leaks.  Vans (RV) 
> sells
> a kit for doing this and it involves a balloon attached to a valve.  You 
> put
> in just enough air to get the balloon to expand.  Then if it does not
> deflate, you are good to go.  If it does, you don't need any more pressure
> than to keep the balloon inflated and you spray a soap/water solution as
> suggested, and look for the bubbles.  The kit is cheap.
>
> Daniel R. Heath -?Lexington, SC

KR> , stall spin

[Larry Flesner]

At 10:16 AM 1/29/2014, you wrote:
>I used to own an Ercoupe, it is a GREAT airplane. // I did an 
>extensive flight test with one
>in the mid 80s and was never able to fully stall of spin the plane.
>Wayne
+

That was by design.  If control inputs were limited, by design, you 
had no need for independent yaw and roll controls and they were able 
to eliminate the rudder peddles.  It made flying a bit simpler, 
intending to bring more people into aviation and intended to improve 
the safety of flying.  Unfortunately, they were underpowered and 
people started flying them heavy, off short grass strips, in hot 
weather, and started hanging them on fence post.  You can't always 
control stupid. :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Larry Flesner]

>Gas molecules are smaller than water molecules. Water testing for leaks
>is inconclusive.
>Gary
++

So true.  Gas will leak it a big way through a hole that holds 
water.  I use a funnel to filter fuel that passes gas at a high rate 
but not a single drop of water.

When looking for a leak, use an 18 to 24 inch length of small 
diameter hose.  Place one end in your ear and pass the other end over 
seams and areas of the tank you suspect may contain a leak.  With 2 
or 3 pounds of air pressure in the tank, a leak is hard to miss. It 
will put a very noticeable hiss in your ear.

Larry Flesner

KR> Flying high

[peter]

  Making a list of advantages vs disadvantages of flying high or low ondistance 
flying, I can't think of a single thing to put on the "low"list,

The view is always better down low, so if you're not going anywhere in 
particular, or are near a mountain Like volcanic Mt.Hood, or the pacific, whale 
watching...low is best. Also, approaching LAX or SFO along the coast, stay low 
and enjoy the VFR corridor. VFR traffic on the congested east coast also stays 
lower generally. Peter

KR> p-lead

[Ronald Wright]

Probably looking for the lead with the spring on the end that goes inside the 
mag.? I need one of those also for the same mag.

Ron



 From: Larry Flesner 
To: KRnet  
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: KR> p-lead


At 03:16 PM 1/30/2014, you wrote:
>Anyone have a pair of p-leads for Bendix S4LN mags you are willing to part
>with?
>Gary
+++

Is there something special about the P-leads you're looking for?? I'm 
thinking that P-leads are simply a wire, run through a switch , to 
ground.? Should be simple to make.

Larry Flesner


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KR> How many KR's in Canada

[william crawford]

Not enough, but if you go to the Transport Canada 
(http://wwwapps2.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ccarcs/aspscripts/en/current.asp   )web 
site and look it up you should see at least 18 KR2 and KR1 registered

Bill

KR> p-lead

[GaryH]

Anyone have a pair of p-leads for Bendix S4LN mags you are willing to part
with?

Gary

KR> N6338Z update

[Roger Bulla]

It has been a while since I posted a update on the KR. It is now flying! This 
is a plans built KR-2 with a VW 2180. Took its first flight in late October 
2013. No surprises. I have the original Rand fixed gear that looks very close 
to the Grove gear. Visibility over the nose on the ground in nonexistent, but 
ground handling is good as well as handling in flight. I biased the cg toward 
the front to keep it stable and plus it is easy to correct  a nose heavy 
aircraft. My cg is around 1.5 inches in front of the center of lift with me in 
the plane and low fuel. Of course the pilot has shed around 30 lbs since then, 
so it has move a little further forward.

The aircraft seems straight, with the elevator trimmed, if I let go of the 
controls I get a very gentile turn to the right. When the power is pulled back 
and the stock flaps are extended to descend, the nose gets very heavy, but the 
plane is stable and easy to land.  The only real problem I have is getting the 
Revflow carburetor to work properly. It keeps trying to kill me or at least 
keep my heart rate up. I have talked to Joe Horvath he is going grind a needle 
with a different taper on it to see can get to settle in. I have a Tillotson  
HD that I am about ready to try. I also still have the Zenith I used on my old 
KR that worked very well for the twenty years I flew it.

I hope to get some wheel pants and a coarser prop on the plane soon and get it 
ready to make the gathering this year. I currently have an old Sterba Prop, 
(54x46) that I have had as a spare for many years. It came with an engine I 
purchased in 1987 and does a great job flying around the valley here in Grand 
Junction, but the engine needs more pitch on the prop. With the Rand fixed gear 
I have plenty of ground clearance for a longer prop. With the 54 inch prop, and 
in a level attitude I have 14 inches of ground clearance but I am not sure what 
combination of pitch and length will work best. 

Its Great to be back in the air. These little planes will keep you grinning.


Roger Bulla
rbulla2 at wic.net

KR> Flying High

[laser147 at juno.com]

Looks like the link got broken to the regulator info.  It's a DeVilbiss
PD1000.  

There were at least two other makers of pulse-dose regulators at the time
I got mine so there's several choices.  The PD1000 works extremely well
in my experience but I imagine the other ones are just as good.  

Mike
KSEE


Do THIS before eating carbs every time
1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52eabf537b21e3f5374e4st02vuc

KR> Flying high

[laser147 at juno.com]

Brian said, 

"I think you have a lot of guts flying at the lower altitudes.  When I am
over 10,000' I can almost always glide to an airport or choose between
several.  At 3,500' you are looking for the best looking road and hoping
there are not power lines you can't see."

Amen.  Even more important if flying at night.  

Making a list of advantages vs disadvantages of flying high or low on
distance flying, I can't think of a single thing to put on the "low"
list, especially in a single.  Having an in-flight fire would certainly
be a disadvantage if up high but we can't base our flying decisions on
extremely unlikely events.  Might as well drive.

To keep from getting headaches I put in oxygen and to keep from getting
cold I put in cabin heat.  Oxygen also helps with clarity of thought
after a long day's travels up high, also with vision at night.  

My O2 system cost me about $100 buying on eBay.  I used an aluminum
medical "E" cylinder (24 cu. ft.) which I get filled at a local dive shop
for usually under $20.  It weighs 8 lbs and fits alongside the fuselage
behind the seat.  The regulator is a pulse demand type, also medical,
which only releases oxygen on the inhale.  I got it brand new for about
$35.  

http://www.devilbisshealthcare.com/products/oxygen-therapy/portable-oxyge
n/pulsedose

The "pulse dose" is adjustable with a dial.  Most conventional aviation
regulators are constant flow which wastes 2/3rds (or more) of the oxygen.
 Really dumb.  From the regulator comes a cannula which, as with my Halo
headset, is so light and unobtrusive I don't know I it on.   Sometimes I
only notice the cannula and the Halos is when trying to exit the cockpit
and realize I've got things attached to my head.  

Breathing oxygen makes a world of difference in my enjoyment of
travelling in the KR.  My last trip to the Gathering was using the O2 all
the way there and back.  I still had O2 remaining in the bottle upon my
return.  For any flying outside my local area, putting on the cannula has
become as routine as wearing my headset.

For those who prefer flying low to avoid headaches, putting oxygen in
needn't be an expensive proposition.  For those not near dive shops, a
friendly welding shop might fill your bottle, as will medical supply
shops.  You can get a prescription if necessary from your AME to make the
medical supply place happy but they are a last resort because of their
pricing.  

For anyone's interest, here's a Deakin article which I learned some
things from when researching this subject three or four years ago.  

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182079-1.html?redirected=1


Mike Stirewalt
KSEE


Do THIS before eating carbs every time
1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & decrease fat storage
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52eaba159f2033a1576d3st01vuc

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Gary Ainsworth]

Gas molecules are smaller than water molecules. Water testing for leaks
is inconclusive.  I like the below statement.
Gary

While waiting for the gauge to drop spray all the seems with soapy
water. if you don't find a leak but the gauge has dropped repeat the
process.



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KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Joe. E. Wallace]

Sorry for the problem Pierre, but there has to be some humor in this sad 
lesson  my sympathy  but your story is just hiilarous...  jw
Joe. E. Wallace
jwallacep51 at gmail.com



On Jan 30, 2014, at 1:41, Pierre  wrote:

> So here I am, finished my wing tanks and very proud of the welding work.
> Somebody mentioned that I should pressure test the tank to ensure it is leak
> free. I usually take good advice to heart, so I hooked up the compressor,
> blocked off all the inlet, breather and other openings, prepared the little
> water spray can and started the compressor. Slowly I start pressing the
> lever on the gun and start spraying the seams with water to see if I detect
> any bubbles. Finally I found a corner with a fine mist. I couldn't see
> exactly where this offending pinhole is and I increased the pressure a bit
> whilst spraying some more water on the offending seam. After about 3-4
> minutes of this adding pressure then spraying water and closely watching for
> the mist, I heard a "clunk" sound. Ignoring the sound (I am not stupid I
> know the tank will move a bit with pressure inside) I concentrate on this
> point on the seam and another two "clunks" further I finally pinpoint the
> pinhole.
> 
> 
> 
> Just then my wife enters the garage with a glass of Coke. Me, very proud of
> myself accepts the Coke and then I told commenced in telling her about my
> detective prowess and ingenuity and that I just discovered a tiny pinhole
> that could become a serious leak and I just averted a serious disaster. She
> took one look behind me and said "no wonder it leaks." I turned around and
> saw these two inter connected aluminum orbs that could be mistaken for beach
> balls!
> 
> 
> 
> There must have been some 100 different facial expressions passing over my
> face in the next nanosecond and as I looked back at my dear wife it is clear
> that she is all choked up with sympathy, grabbing her mouth and clearly
> overwhelmed with emotion and my disappointment she turned and ran into the
> house.
> 
> 
> 
> Suffice to say I packed up, washed and plonked in front of the TV. Air Crash
> investigation was on. My wife and I didn't speak much, as she seems to choke
> up every time she wants to say something. I am very blessed to have such an
> understanding wife. I was in no mood to say anything 20 odd hours of
> labor gone I also harbor serious thoughts about the guy's advice
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Global Solutions]

On 2014-01-30 10:03 AM, ppaulvsk at aol.com wrote:
simple way is to have a pressure gauge on the fitting with a t joint
one line to the tank
the other to the air in and a shut off valve so you can remove the air 
once the pressure reaches 2 lbs which you have a regulator on the air 
line to not allow more then 2 lbs
the third to the gauge

pressurize the tank to 2 lbs or so and see if the gauge drops.
To much pressure and you will distort the tank or better still blow it up :)
While waiting for the gauge to drop spray all the seems with soapy 
water. if you don't find a leak but the gauge has dropped repeat the 
process.

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Pierre]

So here I am, finished my wing tanks and very proud of the welding work.
Somebody mentioned that I should pressure test the tank to ensure it is leak
free. I usually take good advice to heart, so I hooked up the compressor,
blocked off all the inlet, breather and other openings, prepared the little
water spray can and started the compressor. Slowly I start pressing the
lever on the gun and start spraying the seams with water to see if I detect
any bubbles. Finally I found a corner with a fine mist. I couldn't see
exactly where this offending pinhole is and I increased the pressure a bit
whilst spraying some more water on the offending seam. After about 3-4
minutes of this adding pressure then spraying water and closely watching for
the mist, I heard a "clunk" sound. Ignoring the sound (I am not stupid I
know the tank will move a bit with pressure inside) I concentrate on this
point on the seam and another two "clunks" further I finally pinpoint the
pinhole.



Just then my wife enters the garage with a glass of Coke. Me, very proud of
myself accepts the Coke and then I told commenced in telling her about my
detective prowess and ingenuity and that I just discovered a tiny pinhole
that could become a serious leak and I just averted a serious disaster. She
took one look behind me and said "no wonder it leaks." I turned around and
saw these two inter connected aluminum orbs that could be mistaken for beach
balls!



There must have been some 100 different facial expressions passing over my
face in the next nanosecond and as I looked back at my dear wife it is clear
that she is all choked up with sympathy, grabbing her mouth and clearly
overwhelmed with emotion and my disappointment she turned and ran into the
house.



Suffice to say I packed up, washed and plonked in front of the TV. Air Crash
investigation was on. My wife and I didn't speak much, as she seems to choke
up every time she wants to say something. I am very blessed to have such an
understanding wife. I was in no mood to say anything 20 odd hours of
labor gone I also harbor serious thoughts about the guy's advice



Cheers,

Pierre

KR> ADSB

[Dan Heath]

I have a new SkyRadar-L ADSB for sale.  Make an offer within 80% of the NEW
price, and it is yours.



ADSB Weather communicates WIFI or USB to your moving map display.  Also
works with an IPAD with Wing-X and probably other such devices.  Does not
work with Foreflight as Foreflight is dedicated to only the Stratus ADSB



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

KR> Pressure testing my wing tanks

[Bob Lee]

Pierre said:
<< "...so I hooked up the compressor,blocked off all the inlet, breather and
other openings, prepared the little water spray can and started the
compressor." >>

I was a little luckier than Pierre, when I built my header tank I got better
advise:  Use a tee going into the tank.  On one side place a baloon and on
the other side place the compressor.  That way, the baloon will limit the
pressure in the tank and you won't distort it with the pressure.

Regards,

Bob Lee
KR-2, 90% done only 68% to go!
Suwanee, GA  USA

KR> Cowl construction

[Dan Heath]

Well, you have to remove the oil drain cover before you split the case, no
matter what.  You will really like this remote drain.  Any VW conversion can
use it, it does not have to be a Revmaster.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics?

Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 
Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 
Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 
Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 
Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 

Daniel R. Heath -?Lexington, SC




-Original Message-

Also installed the Revmaster oil side drain today and found out what the big
grooves on the bottom side of the oil pan are for.  Actually they allow a
socket wrench access to the case bolt nuts.