KR> Lets try that again...

[Gary Hinkle]

I have spun my KR2. And it went flat. And it is a miracle that i am able to 
type this response.?


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: colin hales via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 05/11/2016  23:31  (GMT-05:00) 
To: krnet at list.krnet.org 
Cc: colin hales  
Subject: KR> Lets try that again... 

As I said, I
read what is written and mostly stay stub. That is until I read something that I
know myself is 100% factually incorrect and that might effect the decision of
someone trying to make a very personal choice. Then I just think it not proper
or correct that miss information is bantered around. I feel a need to put
things right. Therefore, if full
details are not known about the topic with 100% confidence, then you shouldn't
really say anything especially when safety matters and personal losses are
involved.



Gentlemen,? let us all agree that you
don?t have to look far before you read of many KR2 in flight failures. 



NTSB Identification: WPR11FA155?? quote : The rapid
descent was probably initiated by the separation of about half of the vertical
stabilizer as a result of severe turbulence while the airplane was near the
location of the final radar return. The departure of a portion of the vertical
stabilizer and pieces of the rudder would have resulted in the pilot?s inability
to control the airplane, followed by a rapid descent and subsequent in-flight
breakup.



KR2 G-BOLZ in
the UK, broke up in the air, admittedly after a mid air
collision that killed three of my friends.



But these are
extreme cases.? Anyway it doesn?t need to
be an inflight break up that causes you to want to get out and pull a string.



We all know
that the last reported radio transmissions from Ken Rand were, 



 At 3:45 Ken reported he was icing -- at 8,000 feet. At 3:53 the last 
transmission was received:
"I'm at three thousand and I'm going to hit!"



Another Kr pilot
carried out this unwise manoeuvres detailed below, 



 the
pilot initiated an intentional spin, throttling the engine to idle, pulling on
the carburetor heat, and increasing the nose up attitude of the airplane until
it stalled and entered a spin to the left. During the first few rotations the
engine quit, and the propeller stopped turning. After several rotations the
spin stabilized about 20 degrees nose down, and remained in the steady state
until impact. During the descent the pilot was observed attempting various
control inputs without effect.



A canopy latch
coming undone, is enough to open a sideways hinging canopy and have it detach
in flight. With the disturbed airflow over the tailplane, it makes the aircraft
very difficult to control.



So it does not
need to be structural failure of our beloved planes that makes one need to
think a little more. Had these four pilots been wearing a parachute, what would
have been the outcome and their actions? The structural integrity of the KR2 is
not in doubt, but sometimes, certain factors negate this. But lets all agree not
to say there have never been any known in flight failures of any kind, as its
just not true.



I come from a
gliding back ground. I have worn a parachute through all of my flying of
gliders, therefore I am biased. it is compulsory in some clubs to wear chutes, 
due to the close proximity to other
gliders in thermaling flight. I?d never be without one personally after seeing 
three mid airs when racing gliders. But lets try
and keep this to facts and nothing personal. There are on average 30 mid air
collisions a year throughout Europe. Not everyone needs to get out, next to no 
glider pilots are
professional sky divers yet the success rate for getting out is very very high. 
Different
countries quote different figures.



An ?air
experience? member of the public who had never flown a glider before was taking
a flight in a K21 glider in England in 2009. The glider was hit by
lightning and the rapid increase in temperature of the air within the wings
blew them apart and the melting of the control tubes meant that staying in the
glider was no longer a viable option. The paying passenger hadn?t even been
shown how to use the parachute, just how to open the cockpit and undo his
straps. He worked it all out and landed uninjured. The pilot in the back 
sprained his ankle. Our BBC
made a documentary about it.



Glider pilots
in Europe are taught that if you can not get out
of the aircraft because of high wind forces keeping you in or the glider is 
spinning or out of control or your legs are
trapped in the straps, or under the instrument panel, just lean forward or try 
to
stand up and simply pull the cord. On many designs, this fires out on a spring 
the primary chute that pulls out the main chute and the chute will inflate and 
pull you out
rapidly whether you are ready or not. The lowest known recorded height a glider 
emergency chute was open was 400ft. He
survived. Parargliders have emergency chutes on board that 

KR> carbon monoxide poisoning

[Mark Langford]

The "smoke in the plane" thread reminded me of Doug Steen's story. Some 
of y'all know Doug from the Gatherings and SNF/OSH.  He flies the Cirrus 
and a Tailwind now, but earlier it was a V-tail Bonanza and a Luscombe.

He was flying from somewhere like VA down to Deland FL in his Dragonfly 
(or Quickie, or whatever) at high altitude.  Along the way, he developed 
an exhaust leak, that eventually knocked him unconscious.  His plane ran 
fine and straight without him, until it ran out of fuel somewhere over 
central Florida.  While he was still unconscious, the plane hit the 
ground at a survivable angle, but injured his legs substantially, which 
to this day gives him a slight limp.

The funny thing is that if he'd had more fuel, the plane would have 
flown longer, and he probably would have died of CO poisoning.  As it 
was, when the engine quit and the plane crashed, he eventually woke up, 
and survived it all. He's the only guy I know whose life was saved by a 
plane crash...

-- 
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Fiberfrax, exhaust heat article

[stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl]

Al,
Thanks for the information about the bibre frax. I will orde 1/16. 
The extra information from below is very helpfull to.
Thanks Stef 

--
Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2




>Origineel Bericht
>Van : krnet at list.krnet.org
>Datum : 13/05/2016 15:40
>Aan : krnet at list.krnet.org
>Cc : laser147 at juno.com
>Onderwerp : KR> Fiberfrax, exhaust heat article
>
>I've seen some net entries lately with the name Fiberfrax on the title
>and just came across this very good article on exhaust heat that mentions
>this product and others.  I've always been suspicious of wrapping pipes
>and after reading this it's confirmed that it isn't a good idea.  The
>article is the last one or near the last so keep scrolling.  It's called
>"Heat Shields for Homebuilts."
>
>http://goo.gl/Wzp36X
>
>
>KooBuzz
>15 Wildly Rich Celebs Who Were Once Homeless
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5735d993c78e059916116st04vuc
>
>___
>Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
>To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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>options
>

KR> Elevator safety wire or?

[stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl]

Hi kr friends,
Whe are almost so far to install the elevator for final. What did you all 
dois a locknut at the 3 hinge points enough?, should I work with loctite 
And a locknut or with a safetywire.
The Safety wire or splitting pin is very hard to install. 
What do you all have?
Thanks Stef

--
Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2

KR> smoke in plane

[n357cj]

Chris,
The whole story is back in the archives from probably March of 2013. The front 
seal of the BTA 5th bearing blew out (I am still flying the proto type for Dan) 
 and in about 3 min or less I exported all my oil. 
Joe Horton

- Original Message -
From: "Chris Prata via KRnet" 
To: "KRnet" 
Cc: "Chris Prata" 
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 1:24:09 PM
Subject: KR> smoke in plane

joe, just curious, what was the source of your smoke?

> Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 12:48:59 -0400

Sealing the firewall is the first defense just like smoke alarms are in the 
buildings you enter everyday (not sprinklers like your led to believe). I had a 
incident of smoke in the cabin and the situation becomes dire in about 5 
seconds. I was able to open the canopy (and yet another argument for foreword 
tilting canopy), Vision and breathing restored I was then able to asses the 
situation. And make the decisions needed. (in my case it was making an airport 
and salvaging me and the plane).
> Just food for thought,
> Joe Horton,
> N357CJ

KR> Crash reports

[laser147 at juno.com]

Larry said, 

"I've often wondered what happened to several KRs I've 
seen in the past like Robert Muse's KR , the turbine KR seen at the 
Perry, Oklahoma KR Gathering in the late 90's, and the retractable 
gear KR owned by the Gathering host at Perry."

Bobby Muse's really nice KR met it's end over the Mojave Desert, two
winters ago.  Steve Glover was called by FAA or NTSB to advise on that
accident.  I happened to be driving from Vegas to San Diego the day that
happened.  It was a really violent winter day up in the desert, very ugly
and cold sky.  The pilot (if memory serves) was clearly confident in his
skills and the plane too.  Certainly weather had something to do with
what happened.  Hopefully Steve G. will chime in with just what happened.
 The piloyt had taken off from Porterville on the western slopes of the
Sierra range and crossed those high mountains, probably going like a bat
out of hell with a very strong tailwind.  I imagine he was hoping to be
home that night sometime and with the winds howling like that he probably
would have gotten home early.  He was heading back to one of the Southern
states.  So, the chronology on that plane is Bobby Muse and whoever
bought it and lives in Porterville.  Unknown person.  The third owner
didn't make it home.  

I think on that retractable that was at Perry, a really clever bit of
engineering from the pictures I've seen, I tried to follow it a long time
ago and found out only that the owner was managing an airport, I think
there in Oklahoma.  I read on this forum something about the turbine that
showed up so somebody knows the story on that.  There were two nicely
done retractable designs back then.  One was crashed in . . . I want to
say Nebraska . . . or one of the Dakotas with a new owner ferrying the
plane home.  Those first flights often have problems don't they. 
Unfamiliar plane and some little nitpicky thing, a fuel selector (John
Denver) or something else just as simple and just as critical, often
interferes with the trip.   I know my first trip in the KR I have now
could very easily have ended with me disappearing in some Wyoming or Utah
canyon.   I would have just disappeared like they did all the time back
in the 20's and 30's.Once I got the plane home and started taking
things apart I saw just how lucky a pilot I am.   





KooBuzz
Meet 10 Celebrity Little People Impersonators
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/573639ab737c839ab2ff0st02vuc

KR> smoke in plane

[Chris Prata]

joe, just curious, what was the source of your smoke?

> Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 12:48:59 -0400

Sealing the firewall is the first defense just like smoke alarms are in the 
buildings you enter everyday (not sprinklers like your led to believe). I had a 
incident of smoke in the cabin and the situation becomes dire in about 5 
seconds. I was able to open the canopy (and yet another argument for foreword 
tilting canopy), Vision and breathing restored I was then able to asses the 
situation. And make the decisions needed. (in my case it was making an airport 
and salvaging me and the plane).
> Just food for thought,
> Joe Horton,
> N357CJ

KR> fire wall edge

[n357cj]

Someone recently asked about the treatment of the firewall edge. This is not my 
idea ... Pretty sure it came from one of the Tony Benglis books (should be in 
everyone's library)
?? I did a light tack of spray glue to attach the fiberfax and again a light 
tack to attach the stainless to the fiberfax. The fiberfax was trimmed to the 
exact edge of the plywood firewall and the stainless was about 3/8" bigger on 
the 2 vertical sides and bottom. The top portion from the top shelf up and 
around to the top shelf on the opposite side was about 5/8" bigger. The bottom 
and side edges were folded over to cover the edge of the firewall and the paint 
finish of the matting surfaces was matched to the stainless edge with the lower 
cowl edges covering the junction. ?The top radius I drilled a very small hole 
in the stainless right at the edge of the firewall plywood about every inch or 
so. Then at every drilled hole a small cut was made in the stainless from the 
edge into the drilled hole. This left a number of one inch long tabs that now 
were folded over one at a time with 2 bends that made them wrap the top edge of 
the firewall. I then drove a very ...very small st. stl. brad into the top edge 
of each tab to ensure that I did not bend them up or damage them. The foreword 
deck was fit tight to the firewall and overlapped proud of the fire wall and 
the joggle of the top cowl over laps in the opposite direction. This is a 
perfectly water tight seal from the outside elements and can and should be a 
smoke tight seal. Which reminds me was on my squawk list to reseal a spot or 2 
on mine. This is a pretty labor intensive step but yields great results
?? Just to throw fuel on the fire (pun intended). I read some of the fire posts 
with interest. I am a firm believer that worrying about fire in the plane or 
any of the buildings that you enter on a daily basis is very misguided. It is 
the smoke that you will scum to long before the flames are licking at you. 
Sealing the firewall is the first defense just like smoke alarms are in the 
buildings you enter everyday (not sprinklers like your led to believe). I had a 
incident of smoke in the cabin and the situation becomes dire in about 5 
seconds. I was able to open the canopy (and yet another argument for foreword 
tilting canopy), Vision and breathing restored I was then able to asses the 
situation. And make the decisions needed. (in my case it was making an airport 
and salvaging me and the plane).
Just food for thought,
Joe Horton,
N357CJ

KR> Elevator safety wire or?

[Rob Schmitt]

I used a Castle nut with cotter pin on the hinge points. You want then to
rotate, so you don't want these too tight, but you also don't want them to
loosen, so you have the cotter pin. True these can be hard to install. I
have cut outs from the bottom to install, access and inspect. No one sees
them below. 

Rob Schmitt
N1852Z

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of stefkr2---
via KRnet
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 11:32 AM
To: Kr net Kr net 
Cc: stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl
Subject: KR> Elevator safety wire or?

Hi kr friends,
Whe are almost so far to install the elevator for final. What did you all
dois a locknut at the 3 hinge points enough?, should I work with loctite
And a locknut or with a safetywire.
The Safety wire or splitting pin is very hard to install. 
What do you all have?
Thanks Stef

--
Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2



___
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options

KR> Fiberfrax, exhaust heat article

[laser147 at juno.com]

I've seen some net entries lately with the name Fiberfrax on the title
and just came across this very good article on exhaust heat that mentions
this product and others.  I've always been suspicious of wrapping pipes
and after reading this it's confirmed that it isn't a good idea.  The
article is the last one or near the last so keep scrolling.  It's called
"Heat Shields for Homebuilts."

http://goo.gl/Wzp36X


KooBuzz
15 Wildly Rich Celebs Who Were Once Homeless
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5735d993c78e059916116st04vuc

KR> Ray Allen trim

[Jeff Scott]

?
?
?
>Can someone direct me to a thread about using the Ray Allen trim
>systems on a kr2. I am new to figuring out this whole krnet thing.
>
?


Lots of photos of installing the Ray Allen trim in both my KR and my SuperCub.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM

KR> KR crash reports

[Jeff Scott]

Don't know about the turbine KR or Roberts Muse's KR, but I saw Bobby Muse's KR 
was destroyed in southern California in a fatal crash by the new owner trying 
to fly it home in ridiculously high winds.  Seems to me that Don Betcham's KR 
ended up upside down somewhere near Rapid City, SD in an accident, but the new 
owner walked away.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM
?
?
?
Lots of other good info available also if you google "faa accident
report kr2". I've often wondered what happened to several KRs I've
seen in the past like Robert Muse's KR , the turbine KR seen at the
Perry, Oklahoma KR Gathering in the late 90's, and the retractable
gear KR owned by the Gathering host at Perry.

Larry Flesner
?