KR> KR2S plans

[D Lively]

Pat:

I purchased my original set of plans from Ken Rand himself at his office in 
Huntington Beach in '76.  I since took over a project  complete with plans.  I 
spoke with Jenette Rand at the last gathering and about a month ago I got 
around to transferring the registration of the plans I got with my project via 
fax about a month ago and about a week later or so she called to confirm all of 
 the information with me by telephone.  She did this though there was nothing 
additional in it for her.

I am sure she will contact you but be patient for at this time of  year there 
are many EAA Fly-ins and suspect she attends many which means there will be a 
lot of time away from the office and it is as businesses go a small operation 
but she is dedicated.

Donald Lively
Burlington IA 52601




- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Heath" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: KR> KR2S plans


> Faxed her early last week, with my return fax number, no answer.  Called
> left a message early this week, answer.  This is typical, you just have to
> either keep at it, or build something else. 
> 
> See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
> See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering
> There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
> has begun.
> Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
> ---Original Message---
> 
> From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY
> Date: 06/08/07 15:40:00
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: Re: KR> KR2S plans
> 
>Fax to RR and leave a return Phone Number. Ask her
> about delays, Virg
> 
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:39:36 -0700  writes:
>>
>> I had started writing a check for the KR2S plans, and then read
>> about the delays.  So I thought I would try this first.  Anyone have
>> a pristene set of plans and or just started project for sale? Reply
>> to psh...@netscape.com, oh yeh I live in South Mississippi.
>> IHS  PAT S
>>
>> _
>> Netscape.  Just the Net You Need.
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
> 
> 
> ___
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> com/phpBB2/index.php
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> 
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>

KR> KR2S plans

[D Lively]

John:

There Plans I have and even the original set had Full size inboard & outboard 
plywood rib dwgs plus a full size bulk head drawing plus a few other of some 
lesser metal parts.  Those full size plywood rib & firewall drawings are 
indispensable as you can accurately trace them to piece of paper or using 
carbon paper transfer the outline to a template which makes things easier and 
less prone to you making an error.

I do not think you have everything.  The large rib template were not continuous 
mut multi-piece with match lines but they were full size.  I then copied them, 
put the match lines together & guled it onto a piece of masonite and made a 
full size template to assure all ribs were the same.

I am sure that with the reciept No. she will get you what you need but you may 
need to pay something for the copies & shipping.  She may also what an 
explanation about the copy you have to assure that someone did not violate RR 
copyrights.   She knows who the plans were sold to originally.

Don Lively
Burlington IA




- Original Message - 
From: "John" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: KR> KR2S plans


>I have an original receipt for plans that came with my kr2, but the
> plans are all 8 1/2 by 11" photocopies.  were the original plans full
> sized?  I have no rib or former templates, etc.
> 
> jg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> project status

[D Lively]

Mike:

As with anything you do there are many ways to "Skin the Cat" and many ways ave 
been used to get to the end result depending onwhat tools, materials, methods 
and skills you have available and many different approaches have been used .  I 
suggest that you use the KRnet fvenue and review the many approachs you find 
there and even inquire of those whose work and advice you find presented there. 
 Many Mods, Tricks and approaches are shared and have led to very good finished 
examples all around the world.

Don Lively
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Taglieri" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:17 AM
Subject: Re: KR> project status


> Do most people here think  the instructions in the plans on how to
> make the turtle deck are not a good way to do it?
> 
> Mike Taglieri
> 
> On 6/6/07, AVLEC  wrote:
>> Jeff,
>> I made my turtle deck very similar to yours. I made a framework by cutting
>> four squares of 1/4'' ply all the same size. I marked out the turtledeck
>> shape at each of the four stations and then cut out the shapes. I then built
>> up a framework from a few 2x4 bits of scrap pine that positioned the four
>> plies at the correct distances from each other. Into this I forced a sheet
>> of the thinnest galvanized sheet I could find and fastened it in place. Into
>> this I laid up two layers of  200g BID.
>> while this was getting tacky I took a sheet of 3/8 foam and ripped it into
>> 20mm strips. I then took these strips and laid them up onto the previously
>> laid glass using micro slurry as adhesive. It looks just like a classic
>> yacht hull when finished. After this had cured, I sanded the inside smooth
>> and laid up one layer of 200g BID (after vacuuming up all the dust). After
>> this had cured for two days I removed it from the jig/mould, trimmed it and
>> fit it to the fuselage. I havn't weighed it but it is extremely light and I
>> am sure that I could stand on top of it without it breaking. A bonus was the
>> outside surface is perfectly smooth and shiny so no sanding.
>> Regards
>> Dene Collett
>> KR2SRT builder
>> South africa
>> Whisper assembler
>> See: www.whisperaircraft.com
>> mailto: av...@telkomsa.net
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 4:04 PM
>> Subject: KR> project status
>>
>>
>> >
>> > well all, I think I have a winner!  I've attempted to make a turtle deck,
>> > this is now the 3 attempt.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
> 
> ___
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>

KR> OT: Bit and brace?

[D Lively]

Ron & Netters:

If they have estate auctions in your area check a few of them out,  They 
generally sell them off early in the day unless they are really old.

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Butterfield" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: KR> OT: Bit and brace?


> Lehman's Hardware in Kidron, Ohio has all kinds of non-power tools and
> appliances.
> 
> http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=6072=PRODUCT=1=brace
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/2gejfx
> 
> I still have the one from my dad in my toolbox. It's probably older than I am.
> 
> On 6/2/07, David Lininger  wrote:
>> Anyone have a good source for an old-fashioned bit and brace? Dad had
>> one years ago, but when they moved to the retirement home he sold a lot
>> of his stuff, and I think that must have gone then.
> -- 
> Regards,
> RonB
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> AIRPLANE QUESTION

[D Lively]

Lee:

I can be wrong but I'm sure that it did happen and I think it led to the P-38 
Lightning.-- Maybe a check on Lockheeds development of the P-38

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Van Dyke" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 5:48 PM
Subject: KR> AIRPLANE QUESTION


> Netters,
> 
> Not a KR question, I thought I remember seing photos of a fighter, I think it 
> was used at night, but it was 2 P-51 fuselages put on a wing.  Like aP-38, 
> but this was 2 p-51's used.  Can anybody give me any information or am I nuts?
> 
> Lee Van Dyke
> Mesa AZ 85212
> l...@vandyke5.com
> N783JB  Flying  "Snakebite"
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
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> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Turbo to maintain Sealevel intake manifold pressure

[D Lively]

John:

I would say that your proposed use of a turbo charger is its best use but 
personally have flown C-172s to 13,000 & C-182s  to over 15000'  for short 
periods but view 12,500 ft about the limit for sustained operation by a 
non-smoking pilot or passenger without Oxygen.  I believe the craft you site 
all have service cielings in the 14000 area anyway.  Beware of over-boosting as 
it can be  hard on engines and shorten their life.

Having been in and out of Prescott AZ several times as well as high density 
altitude conditions in the Calif. Central Valley and those of the CA deserts I 
can understand your position very well.

Don Lively



- Original Message - 
From: "John" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: KR> Turbo to maintain Sealevel intake manifold pressure


> 
> 
> I just made a deposit on  a new long block 2180 for
> my KR2.
> 
> I am in the Seattle area and virtualy surrounded by mountains.
> 
> I have only 150 hours PIC, but in a pretty wide variety of
> craft (C-150, Musketeer, C-172, Champ, C-120,
> C-150 Long range, beech 1900 etc...  All of them seem (except the 1900)
> to run out of "guts" at about 9K feet.  I can't remember ever making 10k
> feet, they all were naturally aspirated.  Going over a 4k to 6k mountain
> range just to leave town leaves me wanting to clear those "Don't land
> here" speed bumps by oh, say, 5k or 6k ft.  Can't get there from
> "naturally aspirated" here.  
> 
> I am not a speed or performance demon. I fly like I drive:
> sort of slow and methodical.  But I want to clear those rocks
> (and the bigger ones east of there) by a wider margin.
> 
> So,, I want a turbo charger.  I can find one, but I have not been able
> to find a controller for the waste gate that will limit the intake
> manifold pressure to 29.92 inches of mercury.  Or I suppose 
> open the waste gate at 3700 rpm.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> jg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> Turbo to maintain Sealevel intake manifold pressure

[D Lively]

John:

On the down wind side of the mountain you will have very strong headwinds 
because the air is accelerated to very much higher as it rises(Bernoulli 
Effect) and then will take a while to slow down as the ground falls away all 
the while giving you a major down draft to fight as well.  When ever I flew 
from So. CA to IL I would cross the ridge between Las Vegas & Santa Fe NM at 
either 11,500 ft or 12,500 ft but if I had to stop in either place I would stop 
after crossing the ridge in my direction of travel because both were tucked in 
so close to the ridge.  Mountain flying techniques are quite strongly stressed 
when you lear tto fly out west for the very reasons you have mentioned.  It is 
easy to get into situations with small craft that are difficult to get out of.

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "John" <johng...@comcast.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Turbo to maintain Sealevel intake manifold pressure


> Hi,
> 
> I forgot the piper 180 that took 2 hours to climb to 8k feet in the 
> downhill (read downwind) side of a mountain range.
> 
> I have never gotten anything naturally aspirated to 10k.  Perhaps
> I did not have the time to wait (or the distance)..
> 
> jg 
> 
> Gotta get high fast..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2007-06-03 at 21:42 -0500, D Lively wrote:
>> John:
>> 
>> I would say that your proposed use of a turbo charger is its best use but 
>> personally have flown C-172s to 13,000 & C-182s  to over 15000'  for short 
>> periods but view 12,500 ft about the limit for sustained operation by a 
>> non-smoking pilot or passenger without Oxygen.  I believe the craft you site 
>> all have service cielings in the 14000 area anyway.  Beware of over-boosting 
>> as it can be  hard on engines and shorten their life.
>> 
>> Having been in and out of Prescott AZ several times as well as high density 
>> altitude conditions in the Calif. Central Valley and those of the CA deserts 
>> I can understand your position very well.
>> 
>> Don Lively
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "John" <johng...@comcast.net>
>> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:11 PM
>> Subject: KR> Turbo to maintain Sealevel intake manifold pressure
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I just made a deposit on  a new long block 2180 for
>> > my KR2.
>> > 
>> > I am in the Seattle area and virtualy surrounded by mountains.
>> > 
>> > I have only 150 hours PIC, but in a pretty wide variety of
>> > craft (C-150, Musketeer, C-172, Champ, C-120,
>> > C-150 Long range, beech 1900 etc...  All of them seem (except the 1900)
>> > to run out of "guts" at about 9K feet.  I can't remember ever making 10k
>> > feet, they all were naturally aspirated.  Going over a 4k to 6k mountain
>> > range just to leave town leaves me wanting to clear those "Don't land
>> > here" speed bumps by oh, say, 5k or 6k ft.  Can't get there from
>> > "naturally aspirated" here.  
>> > 
>> > I am not a speed or performance demon. I fly like I drive:
>> > sort of slow and methodical.  But I want to clear those rocks
>> > (and the bigger ones east of there) by a wider margin.
>> > 
>> > So,, I want a turbo charger.  I can find one, but I have not been able
>> > to find a controller for the waste gate that will limit the intake
>> > manifold pressure to 29.92 inches of mercury.  Or I suppose 
>> > open the waste gate at 3700 rpm.
>> > 
>> > Any ideas?
>> > 
>> > Thanks
>> > 
>> > jg
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> > Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
>> > http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> >
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> Test

[D Lively]

Patrick:

Did not see it.

Don Lively



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:28 AM
Subject: KR> Test


> Sent a message to the net yesterday. Have not seen it or the one to Flybaby 
> net. 
> Patrick Driscoll
> Saint Paul, MN 
> If you could read this, thank a teacher
> If you read it in English, thank a veteran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- 
> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> Foam filled tanks.

[D Lively]

Bill:

You are correct on vinyl ester resins and it can also be used on many of the 
foams that polyester resins will attack.   Chemical Compatability is very 
importent when using composites.

Don Lively




- Original Message - 
From: "Bill" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Foam filled tanks.


> I'm the one who brought up foam filled tanks. The idea came from 
> military applications where a low density foam is used to make the tanks 
> explosion resistant. The foam displaces 2% of the tank volume and has a 
> density of about 1.2 to 1.4 lbs/cu. ft. Vinylester resin is fuel resistant.
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> Turbo

[D Lively]

Jaco:

That is near the sea level rate of climb for a Cessna 150 "Spam Can" @ 
1600lbs gross ..

Don
- Original Message - 
From: "Jaco Swanepoel" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:35 AM
Subject: KR> Turbo


>I am running a VW 2.4 Liter Turbo and I am extremely happy with the
> performance. I use a Garret T2.5 turbo with an internal waste gate. I had 
> to
> do a carbon seal conversion because of the suck through setup I have with
> the carb. I had to fit a 300mm x 200mm x 50mm Intercooler in order to
> effectively use the turbo. At 1350lbs taking off from FAWB at 4100ft ASL I
> have a average climb rate of 480 fpm.
>
> Jaco Swanepoel
> KR2S, ZU-DVP
> Pretoria
> South Africa
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Fuel tanks and high altitudes

[D Lively]

netters:

H.B. Fuller mahes a lot of chemical resisting coatings.  I used their products 
at Aerojet in Sacramento to protect or resist the attack on concrete by N2O4( 
Nitrogen Tetroxide) that forms Red Fuming Nitric acid when exposed to moisture 
in the air and Unsymetrical Di-methyl Hydrazine(UDMH) and to coat a floor to 
prevent pure Nitro Glycerine from being absorbed by the concrete which would 
tend to give the concrete an explosive personality foe a long period of time.

You might also check with "Carboline Corp" in St. Louis on Hanley for coatings.

I would say just go with 5052 aluminum from the start if you can because I only 
see the compatability problem getting worse long befoe it gets better.

Don Lively
Burlington IA


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Kelsheimer" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Fuel tanks and high altitudes


>  This is the result of the boating industries plite with alcohol in 
> the gas as it sits in the fuel cell it eats away at the resin, normal gas 
> wont do that its the alcohol that is causing the problem. So make sure you 
> dont pump it in your tanks it will cause problems especially if it sits for 
> an extended period of time.
>  There are coatings you can use to prevent any damage but they are 
> hard to apply after the plane is built. They are best applied during the 
> building stage. I plan to coat my tanks for the added insurance and peace of 
> mind. I can control what I do but not the other guy filling the tank that Im 
> pumping from!!! A lot of the dock filling stations went to gasohol without 
> giving it a thought till it was to late. Now everyone is in a panic, as far 
> as I can tell there is no fiberglass resin that is safe from the effects of 
> the alcohol eating away at it.
>   There is however a company that makes a sealer that will protect your 
> tank from it's effect. It's made by H. B. Fuller Company 1-888-423-8553 It 
> is a two part epoxy called Polysulfide Part # is FE1407  I have this 
> information from Wicks as they have had sever inquires for something to 
> protect against the off chance their tanks would have alcohol put in them. 
> Wicks is going to send me a copy of the information sheet on this product if 
> anyone wants the information I will send it to you. Just contact me off list 
> for the information. Eric Von Kelsheimer 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> Diehl nosewheel strut brace.

[D Lively]

Mark:

Thanks

I'll look it over

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Jones" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:16 PM
Subject: KR> Diehl nosewheel strut brace.


>I highly recommend beefing up your Diehl nosewheel strut. It is simple and 
>easy to do. Here is a link to how I did mine. Eric Pitts also did his this 
>way. I have seen this on others as well.
> http://www.flykr2s.com/photo.html
> 
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI 
> Visit my web site: www.flykr2s.com
> E-mail: flyk...@wi.rr.com
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> More Flying

[D Lively]

Jeff:

Thats ok as hanging out much above 12.500 for long without oxygen is not such a 
redhot idea anyway and what would the density altitude be for the 15,500 ft 
alt. on a hot summerday in the SW be anyway.

 You were also very close to the birds service ceing anyway which generally 
given as 100 ft.min at full throttle.

Don



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: KR> More Flying


> Gorgeous day here in the Southwest today. That gave me an opportunity to
> do some performance testing with the new prop on my KR.
> 
> Many builders ask for performance numbers on different KRs, so below is a
> set of numbers I ran this morning while documenting the performance with
> the new prop.
> 
> Rate of climb was pretty good, still showing 200+ fpm at 15,500'.  As
> long as I was at that altitude, I ran a series of 4 direction runs
> recording the gps data and rpm at 1000' intervals down through 8500'. 
> I'm still trying to sort out the changes to the performance with the new
> prop and decide whether to order a different prop.  I saw the following
> results this morning:
> 
> Altitude   MPH  Knots RPM
> 15,500   147.5  128.1   2500
> 14,500   152.25132.3   2525
> 13,500   154.0  134.0   2550
> 12,500   154.75134.5   2600
> 11,500   157.75137.0   2650
> 10,500   159.25138.4   2650
> 9500  160.75139.7   2675
> 8500  163.75142.3   2700
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't test any lower due to the local terrain.  Oh yes,
> and it's a beautiful view from up over the mountains. :o)
> 
> Jeff Scott
> N1213W
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Rebuilding Wings.

[D Lively]

Robin:

I plan on retro-fitting wing tanks in the the project I took over with 5" OD  x 
 0.052 wall irrigation tube as you describe but have found the max length to be 
something a little over 5'-0" because of the spars taperas you move to the tip. 
 It appears that such a tank would have a capacity of 4.9 to 5 gallons by my 
calc using 231 cu. in per gallon.  I  bought (4) 5 ft. pieces for the job 
thinking I could put (2) side by side in each wing and interconnected at the 
ends but alas I thing the aft one must not exceed 4-1/2 inch OD because of the 
reduction in wing thickness as you move back so check carefully.  The 5 in. 
tube weighs between 0.9 and 0.95 Lb per foot and I paid $98 for (4) 5ft pieces 
+ freight.  The total freight was $16 for UPS charges from the "Hastings Pipe" 
plant in Hastings NE about 600 miles from where I live.  All total the single 
package weighed a little over 20# say 10 kilos.  

I spoke to a lady named Martha(I think) at the '06 gathering that used 4 in 
plastic pipe to retrofit tanks into her wings without opening the entire wing.  
I think anchoring it as you describe makes sense.  I think she cut course teeth 
in the end of a pipe and used that to cut thru the foam ribs which should work. 
 Guiding the operation may pose a probler but perhaps with the leading edge in 
a cradle the spar & the upper wing skin would provide an adequate guide and you 
would only need small openings to do the fuel fill and tank anchors in the 
wing.  You could also consider locking the tank with injec foam in the (1) of 
the cells created by the wing, tank ant  (2) of the foam ribs.  The WAF end 
should be easy as it is accessible.

Perhabs if Martha or the person that I talked to @ the last gathering could 
weigh in on this and be of help.

Don Lively
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: "Robin Macdonald" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: KR> Rebuilding Wings.


> Netheads. 
> 
> I have acquired a KR2, & I would like to rebuild the outer wings.  The wings 
> are heavy (approx 50 lbs), the aileron hinges are about 1/4" concave, & I 
> would like to put tanks in the wings. 
> 
> Unfortunately I will stick with the RAF 48 airfoil I don't want to do the 
> inner wings & reposition the rear spar. 
> 
> My method fasten the WAF's to a block of wood, Ali channel or what ever then 
> cut the tip off & stick a block of wood to the outer end of the wing (not 
> sure how, screw, glue or what ever). Then stick a piece of tube in the blocks 
> of wood & use them like a rotisserie.
> 
> The block of wood at the inner end would be to keep the WAF's & spars in the 
> same relative position.
> 
> Then take the lower skin & nose off & rebuild, probably use Mark L's method. 
> Then turn over remove the top skin. Fit tanks probably 5" irrigation tube X 2 
> ( length depends on how much fuel I want).
> 
> One thing I was think about with fitting irrigation tube. Depending on the 
> length what is the expansion/contraction going to be compared with the 
> wood/fibreglass structure. I thought of  gluing the outer end (where the 
> filler would be) in a cradle or what ever & allow the rest of the tube to 
> expand/contract   
> 
> Then do top skin etc. 
> 
> My questions are 
> 
> Has anyone done anything like this before. Any thoughts, suggestions etc.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Much appreciated.
> 
> Robin.
> 
> New Zealand   
> 
> r.macdon...@clear.net.nz
> 
>   
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
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>

KR> Rebuilding Wings/tube tanks

[D Lively]

Ron:

Thanks Ron that is worth knowing and makes thing simpler since a 5 ft long tube 
holds just under 5 gallons.

Don Lively




- Original Message - 
From: "Ronald Wright" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Rebuilding Wings/tube tanks


> None of the Yankee series aircraft use baffling in
> their tubular tanks.  They are almost 6" diameter and
> over 8' long..  No slosh problem.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> --- Larry Flesner  wrote:
> 
>> At 10:50 AM 5/27/2007, you wrote:
>> >What about the slosh factor?  I mean if
>> >all four tubes are half full, isin't
>> >that setup capable of generating some
>> >problems with balance?
>> >
>> >Are there some kind of baffles in the
>> >tubes?
>> >
>> >jg
>> >+++
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, you would probably need some type of baffling.
>> It would depend on whether or not you were using
>> capacitance probes or not.  If not, some of the tank
>> "foam"
>> might be a good choice.  It may even work with the
>> probes.
>> 
>> Larry Flesner
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
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>> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
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>

KR> Rebuilding Wings/tube tanks

[D Lively]

Bob:

I went to the net RE; the discussion about the Tubular spar used as a fuel tank 
in the American Yankee as designed by Jim Bede, below is what I found.



See the link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_American_AA-1



Don Lively

Burlington IA



>From the Link above

All models of the AA-1 accommodate two people in side-by-side seating under a 
sliding canopy and are noted for their exceptionally light handling. The Yankee 
and its 4-seater siblings, the AA-5 series, feature a unique bonded aluminum 
honeycomb wing and fuselage that eliminates the need for rivets without 
sacrificing strength. The wide-track main landing gear struts are laminated 
fiberglass for shock absorption, and was marketed as the "Face Saver®" design 
by American Aviation.[1]

The Yankee was originally designed to minimize the number of airframe parts 
used, with the aim of simplifying production and saving money. As a result of 
this philosophy many parts were interchangeable. Due to the use of a 
non-tapered tubular spar, which doubled as the fuel tank, and the lack of wing 
washout, the wings could be exchanged left and right. The fin and horizontal 
stabilizers were interchangeable, as were the rudder and the elevators. The 
ailerons and flaps were similarly the same part. While it did succeed in making 
production easier, this design philosophy produced many aerodynamic compromises 
in the design. For instance, because the flaps were the same part as the 
ailerons they were too small to be effective as flaps. The lack of wing 
washout, necessitated by the wing interchangeability requirement, meant that 
stall strips had to be installed to produce acceptable stall characteristics 
for certification. Over time this philosophy of compromising the aerodynamics 
in favour of a minimized parts count was abandoned. For example, the redesign 
of the AA-1B into the AA-1C by Gulfstream involved wider-span elevators and 
horizontal stabilizers that produced better longitudinal stability, but were no 
longer interchangeable with the rudder and fin.

Powered by the same 108 hp Lycoming O-235 engine as the Cessna 152, the 
original Yankee cruises twenty percent faster thanks to the cleaner wing and 
better aerodynamics.





- Original Message - 

From: "bob" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Rebuilding Wings/tube tanks


> Gary Sprunger wrote:
> 
>>Responding to Flesner questioning slosh in tube used fo tank and Ron Wright 
>>response about the American Yankee
>>which used a 6" tube @8' long.
>> 
>>That is correct about the Yankee and also the BD-4.
>>  
>>
> The BD-4 does use a 6.8" tubular wing spar, but it doesn't hold any fuel.
> I've never heard of anyone changing the original wet wing design to do
> so, but it's one of the many fuel tank ideas I've kicked around for the one
> I'm building.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Rebuilding Wings.

[D Lively]

Netters:

Didn't some one say 41# per wing on here in the recent past?  I didn't weigh 
minebut 40# to 50#  sure seems about right for mine.No Tanks yet and with 
would add at least 10#+ each.

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "Martindale Family" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Rebuilding Wings.


> My wings with fuel tanks came in at 50lbs. I do not believe 28lbs is 
> possible.maybe with advanced carbon composites but they weren't around 
> in Ernst Koppe's newsletter days. I would like to know how it was done and 
> how safe and durable was the result. Got any data available (newsletter 
> number??). Saving weight is fine but not if your life depends on it.
> 
> John Martindale
> 29 Jane Circuit
> TOORMINA NSW 2452
> AUSTRALIA
> 
> phone:  61 2 66584767 (H)
> 61 2 66869075 (W)
> mobile:  0403 049990
> email:johnja...@optusnet.com.au
> web: www.members.optusnet.com.au/johnjanet/Martindale.htm
> 
> snip  > Phil M his wings came in at 50 lbs including 
> tank. I think it was Mark J his wings came in  at 56lbs with US 12 gal tank 
> landing light etc. In an early KR newsletter someone's wings came in at 
> 28lbs. 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
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>

KR> Tanks

[D Lively]

Robn:

That may well be true but a fabricated tank can be made to conform to the 
interior void space of the wing and is most likely least difficult to secure.  
My reason for  fabricating tanks from tubing is that I think they can be 
retrofitted without tearing my finished wings apart.  There will be some 
problems to work out with  the tank filler caps, vents  and securing the tanks 
but I think with careful thought it can be a whole lot less work,

 The greatest volume rectalinear tank of any given volume  enclosed by the 
least material is a perfect cube.  

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "Robin Macdonald" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 3:55 PM
Subject: KR> Tanks


> Netheads,
> 
> While we are busy discussing tanks, what about round tube versus fabricated 
> tanks. I was a bit surprised the area of material to make a tank, a round 
> tank will hold more than a square or oblong tank for the same amount of 
> material.
> 
> We can work out what the weight for a round tube/ how much it holds. Has 
> anyone any weights for their fabricated tank against what it holds.
> 
> Robin.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> 28# wings????

[D Lively]

  Randy:

Was your KR2 one with the 20 ft. 8 inch or the 23 ft. wing span?

Don 




- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Smith" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: KR> 28# wings


> My 1st KR-2 wings weighed 31 lbs each. fuel tanks
> where in wing stubs
> --- Robin Macdonald  wrote:
> 
>> Dan,
>> 
>> I found the newsletter  Aug 83 pge 2,   Q & A
>> 
>> Q, What should the wings & tail weigh.
>> 
>> A,  My wings were 28lbs with ailerons installed &
>> without balance weights.
>>   Rudder  was 3lbs, Horiz Stab 7 lbs, Elevator  
>> 5lbs.
>> 
>> Robin.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > I am not sure that I would believe the 28# wings. 
>> Almost half..  I
>> > weighed mine, no tank, 50#.
>> >
>> > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
>> the pics
>> > See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering
>> > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING
>> and the time for Flying
>> > has begun.
>> > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
>> > ---Original Message---
>> >
>> > In an early KR newsletter someone's wings came in
>> at 28lbs.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at
>> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play 
> Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> http://sims.yahoo.com/  
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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>

KR> Fw: 1835 VW for sale

[D Lively]

Lee:

I e-mailed you off net & your E-mail bounced

Don Lively
Burlington IA





- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Van Dyke" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:52 PM
Subject: KR> Fw: 1835 VW for sale


> Netters,
> 
> It's time, I have a HAPI 1835 VW bought back in 84'  that is for sale.  It 
> was rebuilt in 2004 and has 185 +/- hours on it.  This sale will be from the 
> mount forward. It has a HAPI case with new alt. and mag ring, new flywheel 
> from G/P.  new  geared starter and dual port heads.  I don't like to brag but 
> it out flew a revmaster 2100 in Sept. going back to the gathering.  It has 
> dual ignition, with scat dual port heads.  It has a 52 x 45 prop new 2 years 
> ago from Culver.  I last clocked speed @ 136 TAS @ 3.3 GPH.  Posa carb, tuned 
> and with the spinner.  G/P would have this package at about $7000.00.  I will 
> sell for $3500.  I have video clips of it running and can do new ones if you 
> want.  I would like to keep the engine, but I'm a bigger boy and have a 
> bigger engine to put in it, so I can fly with bigger passengers.  E-mail me 
> off line and I can give you more information.
> 
> 
> Lee Van Dyke
> Mesa AZ 85212
> l...@vandyke5.com
> N783JB  Flying  "Snakebite"
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Carbon fibre cloth

[D Lively]

yep:  All that stuff comes from oil!

Don


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re: KR> Carbon fibre cloth


> Larry is absolutely correct, except that I think it is now 5 times more 
> expensive, for no gain.
>
> From: Larry Flesner 
> Date: 2007/05/31 Thu PM 12:27:38 CDT
> To: KRnet 
> Subject: Re: KR> Carbon fibre cloth
>
> At 07:42 AM 5/31/2007, you wrote:
>>Hi Darren - Let us know how it works - I am interested in doing the same
>>to save a little weight and increase strength.
>>
>>-dave
> ++=
>
> The KR has proven over time to be quite strong enough using
> the standard KR cloth.  With only one layer of glass from the
> forward spar to the trail edge, and assuming probably the same
> amount of resin, I don't see where the extra cost of carbon fiber
> could be justified financially for the weight savings of the cloth
> alone which, in all probability, will be about the same.  The weight
> savings generally comes in using less layers of cloth, which in
> this case. you can't do.
>
> The weakest part of the wing is at the attach fittings.  Using carbon
> fiber won't change that.  The chain is only as strong as it's weakest
> link and you're not improving the weak link.  Carbon fiber is probably
> 4 times more expensive.  The difference would probably buy a nice
> hand held radio.  :-)
>
> Just a thought from the far side...
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
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>
>
>
> ___
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> 

KR> Test

[D Lively]

Allen:

Test Came Through

Don Lively
Burlington IA




- Original Message - 
From: "Allen Wiesner" 
To: "KR Net" 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:03 AM
Subject: KR> Test


> Seeing if this goes through.  I've tried to send a post on fuselage length 
> twice with no show.
>
> Al
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> 

KR> insurance - saving with AIG

[D Lively]

KR-Netters:

For those that don't know, "AIG"  stans for "Aetna Insurance Group"!

Don Lively


- Original Message - 
From: "Ed Janssen" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: KR> insurance - saving with AIG


> This isn't a plug for AIG, but I recently changed my auto insurance from
> State Farm to AIG - and saved 1/2 the amount of annual premium - actually 
> a
> little more than 1/2.  That kind of savings could help pay for your KR
> insurance.
>
> Ed Janssen
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Larry Flesner" 
>
>
>> At 06:21 AM 5/15/2007, you wrote:
>> >Anyway, I thought I'd check out Sky Smith because a lot of folks
>> >swear by him, so I did.  I got EXACTLY the same coverage from him as
>> >what I had the year before, through EXACTLY the same carrier (AIG),
>> >for half the price.  That's $300 that I can do something else with.
>>
>> Larry Flesner
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> bounced emails

[D Lively]

Bob:

Came through Fine.

Don Lively
- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Glidden" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: KR> bounced emails


> Just testing,I've had a couple emails to the list bounce back undelivered.
>
> Bob Glidden
> Eminence,Indiana
> KR2S N181FW (building)
> Corvair 110
> glid...@ccrtc.com
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Personality changes.

[D Lively]

I had a maple tree in my yard cut down yesterday and had friend ask me if I was 
building a nest.  I responded that the resulting debris was not good enough for 
the bird (KR) under costruction in my garage.

Don Lively




- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Heath" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Personality changes.


> Normal for a KR Builder, but Crazy for a Normal person. 
> 
> See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
> See you at the 2007 - KR Gathering
> There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
> has begun.
> Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
> ---Original Message---
> 
> Whilst on the subject of the stability of my mind right now, is it normal to
> wake in the morning with KR thoughts pulsing through your mind and during
> the day do you get ideas on design changes for the KR because a curve in the
> road reminded you of the curve of the fuselage?  How about noticing a VW
> with a hot engine but failing to notice the hot babe driving it.  I know
> that the last thing on my mind before sleep tonight will be the KR and I
> will awake tomorrow, one day closer to the weekend.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> MAC servo

[D Lively]

Ron:

What is a MAC servo?

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "Ronald Wright" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: KR> MAC servo


> Anyone have a new MAC servo system they want to sell
> for the KR2?
> 
> If so, please contact me off-list at:
> 
> ronwrig...@yahoo.com
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ron
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> KR2s Wings

[D Lively]

Netters:

I have been attempting to figure out for ahile and still can't be sure!

Do the spars extend all the way to composite tips on  the "S" wings? the 
reflection of the spar through the fibergalss on the project I took ovet seems 
to stop at where the std  wing span should be. and I do not have "S" wing 
plans.  Can some one shed any light on how the extra 14 inches of span/wing is 
achieved?

Don lively
Burlington IA

KR> "S" Wing Construction

[D Lively]

Netters:

I have been attempting to figure out for ahile and still can't be sure!

Do the spars extend all the way to composite tips on  the "S" wings? the 
reflection of the spar through the fibergalss on the project I took ovet seems 
to stop at where the std  wing span should be. and I do not have "S" wing 
plans.  Can some one shed any light on how the extra 14 inches of span/wing is 
achieved?

Don lively
Burlington IA 

KR> "S" Wing Construction

[D Lively]

Phil:

Thanks for your reply, you are the only one so far.  

The plans that came with my project are for the the std. KR2 and since the 
wings are done I really want to know that they are built the way they should be 
and there is know way  to tell.

What do you mean by "Foam Ply"?  Is that mearly a "Foam Block" extention 
epoxied to the plywood rib @ the end of the spar, sanded to contine the  fwd. 
sweep of the tailing edge and the continue the reducing rate of depth of the 
airfoil section to the tip? My wings have the pre-molded tips and the y extend 
beyond the trailing edge by an inch  to an inch and half or so (3-4 cm), which 
looks a little "Amatuer Night" which is why I raise the question.  

I was hopeful that one of  the KR2s folks  would shed some light on this.  The 
wings seam stout enough but it just would not do to have a tip fall off with 
the potential for making the bird hard to handle even though the loads are 
lighter out there.

Don Lively
Burlington IA


- Original Message - 
From: "Phil Matheson" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: KR> "S" Wing Construction


> Don
> My Dan Diehl skins do not have the spar all the way, and have a foam ply 
> extension.
> I know is not a 2S but they may do a similar thing ???
> 
> 
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch. 20
> VH-PKR
> Australia
> 
> EMAIL:   phillipmathe...@bigpond.com
> KR Web Page: www.philskr2.50megs.com
> http://www.vw-engines.com/ 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Engine mount

[D Lively]

Eric:

Your welder is probably correct as all air contains moisture so the air 
contained inside the tube will condense when it gets cold and it is a safe bet 
that there will likely be some porosity somewhere that will allow ambient air 
in & out(Nothing is perfect). Drain holes @ the low points sound smart to me.

Perhaps take and paint the explosed bare metal after you drill the holes with 
epoxy paint.  I had some hand rails powder coated black for my house and 
touched up some "Dings" with some I got at "Big Lots" for $2 for a 1/2 pt. can. 
 Could not tell the difference is looks!

Don Lively
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:43 PM
Subject: KR> Engine mount


> After talking with my welder about my engine mount. He stated that I
> should drill some small holes in the welded tubing at the low spots to let
> condensation drain out. I told him that Willie Wonka had charged the
> tubing with gas as he welded the mount up. He said it did not matter as
> the mount would rust from the inside out with out the drain holes. This
> guy gets recertifed every 6 months so I tend to believe him. After I get
> my mount powder coated I will drill the proper holes for drainage.
> 
> Eric Pitts
> KR2S
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Drilling holes

[D Lively]

Patrick:

I was assuming the holes were already there or had been put there after the 
powder coating as a means of covering the resulting bare metal.

D. Lively



- Original Message - 
From: <patric...@usfamily.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: KR> Drilling holes


> Perhaps take and paint the explosed bare metal after you drill the holes with 
> epoxy paint
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you drill holes with epoxy paint? :)
> Patrick Driscoll
> Saint Paul, MN 
> If you could read this, thank a teacher
> If you read it in English, thank a veteran
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- 
> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Any trailer plans for KR's

[D Lively]

Bobby:

I bought a folding trailer from "Harbor Fright" with 12 inch wheels ($239.95) 
and  took  "Stud Length"( 92-3/4") 
2x4's, bolted  them across the "Tilting Frame" and decked it with 5/8" CDX . 
Then I covered  the with the 
4' x  8'  "John Hardie" cement siding.

I purchased my KR fro a gentleman in Stonefort IL, about 15 miles SE of  Marion 
and hauled the  KR on its gear
the 400 miles or so back to Burlington IA with no proplem.

The Gross vehicle wt rating is abot 1300# for the trailer and the only thing 
you will need to do is mount the lights
on the wood framing and run ground wires back to the steel frame for the lights.

8 or 10  2 x 4 studs
2 shts  4' x 8'  5/8" cdx plywood
2 shts  4' x 8' 5/16"  "John Hardie" cement siding
bolts & hardware to secure 2 x 4s to the frame ( I used  lag screws but Carrage 
bolts might lat longer)

I eventually will mount  a winch on the front of  this  trailer to assist in 
loading & unloading.  The folding design 
makes for a handy tilt feature that assist in  loading & the 2 x 4s are high 
enough to allow the deck to pass over the
trailer fenders. --Doubles as a good flat bed utility trailer as well.

Best of Luck.

Don Lively
Burlington IA




- Original Message - 
From: "bobby burington" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:43 PM
Subject: KR> Any trailer plans for KR's


> Hi 
>  I tried to search the KR archives but it isn't working right now so I will 
> try a little later, but does anyone have a good set of plans ( or know of any 
> ),  or good pictures, for a trailer for the KR-2 and a good way to hold the 
> wings? preferably a covered trailer.
>   
>  thanks
>  Bobby
> 
>   
> -
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Amphibious A/C

[D Lively]

I vaguely remember something like that but think that it was something under 
study at his death but not sure>

Don
- Original Message - 
From: "Randolph R. Clark" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: KR> Amphibious A/C


>I remember a pic many years ago of an airplane that Ken
> Rand built, I believe he called it the KR-3.  It was an amphibious
> plane-pilot under canopy up front with eng. behind.  I think that
> it was underpowered and the idea and plane scrapped.  Anyone
> know about this plane and what happened to it.  Just wondering.
> Randy Clark
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

Fw: KR> Any trailer plans for KR's

[D Lively]

Noel:

This is what I sent Bobby.  I think a removable soft top & sides could be 
fashioned and with the ingenuity endemic  to most KR builders I am sure you 
could use the storage wheel ass'ys that come with the trailers and retain the 
folding function but the castors would that come with it are totally inadequate 
from a strength stand point.  The cementicious(sp?) siding is an option for 
duability and the decking scr'd down with sq. drive deck screws.   

Take a look at  & see if it will do what you want.  Harbor freight has a 
website.

Don Lively
Burlington IA



Bobby:

I bought a folding trailer from "Harbor Fright" with 12 inch wheels ($239.95) 
and  took  "Stud Length"( 92-3/4") 
2x4's, bolted  them across the "Tilting Frame" and decked it with 5/8" CDX . 
Then I covered  the with the 
4' x  8'  "John Hardie" cement siding.

I purchased my KR fro a gentleman in Stonefort IL, about 15 miles SE of  Marion 
and hauled the  KR on its gear
the 400 miles or so back to Burlington IA with no proplem.

The Gross vehicle wt rating is abot 1300# for the trailer and the only thing 
you will need to do is mount the lights
on the wood framing and run ground wires back to the steel frame for the lights.

8 or 10  2 x 4 studs
2 shts  4' x 8'  5/8" cdx plywood
2 shts  4' x 8' 5/16"  "John Hardie" cement siding
bolts & hardware to secure 2 x 4s to the frame ( I used  lag screws but Carrage 
bolts might lat longer)

I eventually will mount  a winch on the front of  this  trailer to assist in 
loading & unloading.  The folding design 
makes for a handy tilt feature that assist in  loading & the 2 x 4s are high 
enough to allow the deck to pass over the
trailer fenders. --Doubles as a good flat bed utility trailer as well.

Best of Luck.

Don Lively
Burlington IA 




- Original Message - 
From: "bobby burington" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:43 PM
Subject: KR> Any trailer plans for KR's


> Hi 
>  I tried to search the KR archives but it isn't working right now so I will 
> try a little later, but does anyone have a good set of plans ( or know of any 
> ),  or good pictures, for a trailer for the KR-2 and a good way to hold the 
> wings? preferably a covered trailer.
>   
>  thanks
>  Bobby
> 
>   
> -
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Amphibious A/C

[D Lively]

Peter:

Could the death of Ken Rand have prevented this from going fwd.  If this were 
late '78 and you add a year plus the not so unusual delays of such things it 
would not be hard to assume that his death killed the project.

Don Lively
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Amphibious A/C


>I have copy of KR Newsletter 332, dated Feb 1978 that has a bit on the KR3, 
> Registered  N3 3KR.
> "Remeber last issue? The amphib had just suffered a minor setr back. Turns 
> out the prop used for that particular flight had not been adjusted to the 
> engine. The prop, a Maloof/Revmaster unit, was a lonerreplacing the original 
> that had sustained damage from a foreign object (screw, cowl fastener etc). 
> The loner was handed over with directions to adjust the pitch setting before 
> flight. for one reason or another, probably haste, the necessary adjustment 
> was not made properly. Result was an over revved engine and a stall when 
> power was cut. repairs were made to the KR3 and within a week it was ready 
> to go back to the airport. The result of this latest trip you see in the 
> picture. The pilot, Jack Moell, received only a couple of minor abrasions. 
> Cause of the accident has been attributed to low-speed control reversal and 
> has prompted reconsideration of the CA(W)-1 airfoil used on the KR3. Rand 
> says there will be about a year delay in the release of the KR3 plans and 
> those who already ordered plans will have their money refunded. Meanwhuile, 
> the KR3 will be rebuilt using a different airfoil (probably the RAF 48) and 
> testing will start over from scratch."
> Somehow, this never happened!
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Randolph R. Clark" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:58 AM
> Subject: KR> Amphibious A/C
> 
> 
>>I remember a pic many years ago of an airplane that Ken
>> Rand built, I believe he called it the KR-3.  It was an amphibious
>> plane-pilot under canopy up front with eng. behind.  I think that
>> it was underpowered and the idea and plane scrapped.  Anyone
>> know about this plane and what happened to it.  Just wondering.
>> Randy Clark
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Any trailer plans for KR's

[D Lively]

Virgil:

I made that suggestion but my thoughts on  this were to have sides with 
craddles to hold the wings with  "Notch-Outs" to clear the wing stubs when 
pivoted up  to the vertical.  This would not be easy to accomplish because of 
the dynamic conditions encountered while pulling the trailer.   I can see no 
practical way of building a fully enclosed trailer that would allow an adequate 
practical clearance for the wing stubs without needing an "Over-Width Permit" 
and all that goes with that to use it. I think an enclosed trailer would need 
to be  9 ft wide clear inside at a minimum and the entrance not less than 8 ft 
because the center section to the end of the WAFs crowds 7 ft. and that gives 
not more than 6" to play with.  I have 8-1/2 ft overhead doors in my garage and 
and that takes great care to move a wingless KR through which is what I based 
my minimum widths on.

Don Lively
Burlington IA




- Original Message - 
From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Any trailer plans for KR's


>Wings on the sidewall. Watch the width, Virg
> 
> On Sun, 6 May 2007 20:43:19 -0700 (PDT) bobby burington
>  writes:
>> Hi 
>>   I tried to search the KR archives but it isn't working right now 
>> so I will try a little later, but does anyone have a good set of 
>> plans ( or know of any ),  or good pictures, for a trailer for the 
>> KR-2 and a good way to hold the wings? preferably a covered 
>> trailer.
>>
>>   thanks
>>   Bobby
>> 
>>
>> -
>> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at 
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Any trailer plans for KR's

[D Lively]

Myron & Kieth:

You are correct but is it not true that in many places you are limited to an 
* ft vehicle width with out a permit.  In those cases getting (2) wall 
thicknesses and any practical clearance would be tough in the 9" remaining 
and even in the 21 inches at a 9 ft vehicle width  is close andwhile OK once 
in a while I would not want to do it often.

Don Lively
- Original Message - 
From: "Myron (Dan) Freeman" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Any trailer plans for KR's


> Yeah, mine is only 87" wide (that's 7'3") and leaves plenty of room so 
> that
> it wouldn't be too wide for highway use. I've had it in a Penske rental
> truck for transport to the airport before.
>
> Regards
> Myron (Dan) Freeman
> Indpls, Ind. 46203 USA. Home of the
> 2007 World Champion Indpls, Colt's
> mfreem...@indy.rr.com
> Posted - Tuesday, 05/08/07 9:30 am
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Cable Travel

[D Lively]

Does any one know or can anyone tell me what the cable travel is "lock-to-lock" 
of the aileron cable on the as designed "Center Stick" KR2?

Don Lively
Burlington IA

KR> Seeking Original KR Plans Owner

[D Lively]

Netters:

Does anyone know William Rivers, Formerly of 68 Beachview Ave,  Malden Mass. 
He was the original owner of the plans of my KR and i am trying to track him 
down.  He purch. the plans in '78.

I recently rec'd this information in a response to my Fax to Jeanette Rand.

Many thanks to Jeanette!

Don Lively
Burlington IA 

KR> Canopy coating

[D Lively]

Lee:

Have you ever considered having your lettering cut inreverse  from adhesive 
backed vinyl and placing it on the inside of your canopy so it can be read from 
the outside, somewhat like they do when they make stencils for painting 
graphics on vehicles.  Some plotters have the capability of using cutters 
instead of pens.

Don
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:50 AM
Subject: KR> Canopy coating 


> Can anybody remember or have first hand experience if you can use the
> coating on a canopy for masking for paint??
> Lee Van Dyke
> 
> Lee,
> The solvents in some paints will attack the coating and get to the
> Plexiglas.  This will leave a permanent haze on the Plexiglas.  Also you
> may have pin holes in the coating you won't see until after painting.
> Recommend you peal the coating back just an inch or so around the edge
> for bonding to the frame.  Tape the paint line with vinyl tape directly
> to the bare Plexiglas.  Then tape plastic sheet to the vinyl tape to
> cover the canopy using more vinyl tape.  Do the same for inside the
> canopy.  Tape a foam pad to the outside top of the canopy so you don't
> scuff the plastic cover (and Plexiglas) when you have it upside down on
> the bench working the frame.  
> The above is right out of the Tony Bengalis book.  Do get the
> four-volume set; there's lots of good advice to keep you from a lot of
> rework.
> 
> Sid Wood
> Tri-gear KR-2 N642
> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Canopy coating

[D Lively]

You could do that but I was thinking more of making lettering out of similar 
material and appling that to the canopy--no painting required.  You would have 
adhesive residue if you ever removed it.  Think of it as using the lettering 
removed & appling that instead of applying the masking then painting--  sort of 
a reverse operation.  This is kind of a thought but I am not an expert.

This is a thought.  I can talk to a fellow that I went to HS that is a retired 
set lead artist from Sony Pictures.  (2) of his credits are the movie 
"Sleepless in Seattle" and the TV series "Providence".  He is most 
knowledgeable things artistic and the compatability of paints and substrates.

I'll talk to him and give him your address if it is OK with you.

Don Lively




- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Van Dyke" <l...@vandyke5.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Canopy coating 


> What the HELL are you talking 
> about???
>  
> dose this have anything to do with masking the canopy for painting??
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "D Lively" <riksh...@lisco.com>
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:27 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> Canopy coating
> 
> 
>> Lee:
>>
>> Have you ever considered having your lettering cut inreverse  from 
>> adhesive backed vinyl and placing it on the inside of your canopy so it 
>> can be read from the outside, somewhat like they do when they make 
>> stencils for painting graphics on vehicles.  Some plotters have the 
>> capability of using cutters instead of pens.
>>
>> Don
>> Burlington IA
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> floats for a Kr-2

[D Lively]

KR-netters:

On the subject of low-wing float planes, it seems tome I have seen a few of the 
Piper "Spam-Cans" fitted with floats but most that I have seen are mid-wing 
craft or high wing Cessna types.  It probably could be done but I would worry 
about the wood parts of the KR as well as the light weight of  the air-frame.  
I think plenty of power can be had but long gone would be the 150 mph plus 
cruise and without an engine a KR would surely float any way, maybe even with 
one if you could "Ditch" one w/o tearing it apart>

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "J L" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: KR> floats for a Kr-2


> That thing is a cartwheel waiting to happen!
> 
> Jeff
> 
>> This is how good a low winged float plane can look.
>>
>> http://www.beriev-usa.com/main/photos.html
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> floats for a Kr-2

[D Lively]

Darren:

Probably would work too, but still the potential for maint on the wood 
airframe of a KR  I think makes it unwise.  The 601 is aluminum and a lot 
like a Cherokee but lighter.

Don

- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Crompton" <kr.2s.dar...@gmail.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: KR> floats for a Kr-2


> What about a Zenith 601 on floats?
>
> http://www.aviogatti.it/cen20.jpg
>
>
>
> On 5/6/07, D Lively <riksh...@lisco.com> wrote:
>>
>> KR-netters:
>>
>> On the subject of low-wing float planes, it seems tome I have seen a few
>> of the Piper "Spam-Cans" fitted with floats but most that I have seen are
>> mid-wing craft or high wing Cessna types.  It probably could be done but 
>> I
>> would worry about the wood parts of the KR as well as the light weight
>> of  the air-frame.  I think plenty of power can be had but long gone 
>> would
>> be the 150 mph plus cruise and without an engine a KR would surely float 
>> any
>> way, maybe even with one if you could "Ditch" one w/o tearing it apart>
>>
>> Don
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "J L" <schml...@gmail.com>
>> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: KR> floats for a Kr-2
>>
>>
>> > That thing is a cartwheel waiting to happen!
>> >
>> > Jeff
>> >
>> >> This is how good a low winged float plane can look.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.beriev-usa.com/main/photos.html
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> > Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> >
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
>
> www.kr-2s.com
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> Fuel gauge Sender

[D Lively]

Jim:

What Brian says is the way to go as ther are no moving parts to bind or 
stick.  Just make sure the terminals & adj. devices are accessible in case 
you must re calibrate it for that you may need to do from time to time.

Don Lively
Burlington IA

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Kraut" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Fuel gauge Sender


> Don't know if it will help you or not, but I do highly recommend the 
> Westach
> capacitive sender fuel gauge.  It is easy to install and works great.  I 
> had
> one in my KR and there is one in my Stang and both worked good.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Charlie Morehead
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:26 PM
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: KR> Fuel gauge Sender
>
>
>
>Netters,
>
>  A while back there was some talk about someone that made a fiber glass
> fuel tank and had a problem with the fuel gauge working.  My stub wing 
> tank
> float sending unit just reads just off empty.  The tank is two thirds 
> full.
> The gauge is on sthe other side of the baffel or I would reach in with a
> wire and move it up and down to see if I could get it to read.  Every so
> often I shake the plane trying to bounce the float around.
>
>  Any sugestions?  I can remove the float unit, but not easy.
>
>  See you in Mt. Vernon
>
>  Jim Morehead
>  Cameron Park, CA
>  N522PC
>
> ___
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KR> LSA Certified ?

[D Lively]

ED & David:

That is probably true.

Don
- Original Message - 
From: "Ed Janssen" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: KR> LSA Certified ?


> David,
>
> There is at least one significant advantage to registering your plane as 
> an
> E-LSA.  If you should sell your E-LSA, the new owner may do his own annual
> condition inspection provided he takes the appropriate steps (16 hour
> course, being one) to get a Repairman's Certificate with Inspection 
> Rating.
> This could cost much less than annually hiring an A or other properly
> rated inspector to do it.
>
> Ed Janssen
>
>> There is no advantage to trying to register your KR LSA.
>>
>> David Mikesell
>
>
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> 

KR> Wing Tank Material For Retrofit

[D Lively]

Netters:

I have just ordered 5 inch OD x .052 inch wall aluminum irrigation tubing from 
Hastings Pipe &  Tube in Hastings NE.  They have a web Site that can be found 
by looking for "irrigation tubing, aluminum" on your browser.

I ordered 20 lf cut into 5 ft lengths for shiping UPS which should work out 
just fine for retro-fitting into the wings.  each 5 Ft. long piece should have 
a capacity of about 4.8 gallons.   The Mat'l is 3003 aluminum and is weldable.

The material weigs in at about 0.91 lb/ft.  The cost delivered of the (4) pcs 
is approx. $104.

This should be a superior material to plastic pipe and make it unnecessary to 
open up the entire bottom of the wing to retrofit wing tanks to a KR. 

Don Lively
Burlington IA 52601



- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Klapp" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Sun N Fun KR Dinner


> Brian
> I am planning on attending the dinner. Do you need any money upfront?
> 
> Pete Klapp, KR-2S builder,
> Canton, Ohio
> 
> KR Dinner at Sun
> N Fun this year on Saturday April 21.
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> _
> Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office 
> Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
> 
> 
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KR> Retro-Fitting Wing tanks

[D Lively]

At the last gathering one of the attendees had used tubes or Plastic Pipe as 
tanks to retrofit tanks into wings.  I would like to exchange some methodology 
on how and ask you  some questions.  It seems as though she was from Florida.

Don Lively
Burlington IA
riksh...@lisco.com 

KR> Retro-Fitting Wing tanks

[D Lively]

Larry:

Thanks Larry.

I have ordered 5" OD x  .052 wall Alum. Tube.  ^0" long tubes have a 
capacity of around 4.8 Gallons.  The gal @ the gathering used plastic pipe 
for hers but said she was able to use th pipe to cut through the foam ribs 
and then only needed small access oles to secure the tanks. I'll all so have 
some venting issues.

Don
- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Flesner" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Retro-Fitting Wing tanks


>
>
>>At the last gathering one of the attendees had used tubes or Plastic
>>Pipe as tanks to retrofit tanks into wings.  I would like to
>>exchange some methodology on how and ask you  some questions.
>>Don Lively
> ++
>
> Bill Clapp has some wing tanks using plastic pipes.  Seem to me it would
> be a fairly easy task to cut open the bottom of the wing, install the 
> pipes
> , re-foam and glass the wing.  You might even be able to install some
> pipes (I'd use aluminum) through the 48" inboard rib without cutting any
> of the wing surface.  Remove and rebuild the wing tip to accept the filler
> neck and vent.  If necessary, you could cut a few holes to shoot in
> some expanding foam at several points to hold the tanks in place.  The
> possibilities are limited only by one's imagination.
>
> I had to cut open my left wing to find and fix a leak in my left wing
> tank.  Although
> the bottom of my left wing is still in primer it was not really that big 
> of a
> deal.  I cut out the glass and foam in the tank area, cut out the bottom 
> of the
> tank, re-sealed the tank, re-attached the tank bottom, replaced the foam 
> and
> sanded to shape, glassed and finished the wing surface.  I was flying 
> again
> in less than 60 days.
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
> ___
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> 

KR> Roll over Pertection

[D Lively]

Larry:

You may be right on  this flat bar idea but a tube is very strong compared to a 
flat and one rolled to an arch would be even stronger when loaded 
normal(Perpendicular) to the out side of  the bend and the round side would not 
have an edge to cut into the ground like a shovel.  I also think that the 
greatest likelyhood of winding up upside down in  a  KR or most other airplanes 
is a "Nose Over" so the arch that you have should be tough.  

Look at the pictures of  the KR pilot over in England,  His canoby was not 
brokes and he went upside  down.  I submit that a strong rudder post and. Fwd 
"Turtle Deck Arch" higher than the head  is  key.  Of course the size of the KR 
affords little protection but really I  think it might be a more survivable 
graft in many respects than some of the "Spam Cans".

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Flesner" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:48 PM
Subject: KR> Roll over Pertection


> At 05:13 PM 4/16/2007, you wrote:
>>So over the pass few days I made a 4130 R/O/Bar similar from RV4.
>>Phil Matheson
> +=
> 
> I've always thought the RV  R/O bar could use a bit more "flat plate"
> area.  Seems it would only be good on a hard surface.  Seems
> to me it might penetrate a soft type soil at least several inches or
> more.  Maybe I'm just looking on the dark side but that's what we
> try to build to avoid.  Statistically speaking, just crossing your fingers
> or knocking on wood might work just as well.  :-)
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
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KR> Oil Temp/pres.

[D Lively]

Eric:

Do not take my word for this but this is the way I see things & am willing 
to bet you will find much agreement here from the "Old Farts" among us.

Oil will be more viscous when cold than when hot and will suffer a pressure 
drop when it warms though much less so with multi-Viscosity oils. (IE: 
10w40, 20w50 and the  like.  Also at lower rpm the pressure will likely be 
much lower than at cruise settings which is normal.  I know this from the 
days when I had older cars before they went to "Idiot Lights" to save a few 
bucks on their manufacture. The question is what should these readings 
normally be.  These are importent to establish a "Base Line" so you can tell 
if there is a failure developing as the engine degrades with wear &  tear.

Idiot lights are operated by a pressure switch that is designed to close at 
a minimum pressure addequate for the safe engine operation but that gives 
precious little warning if you are at 10,000 ft and a long way from an 
airport and your oil gets hot, run out of oil or a main bearing starts to 
fail.  The pressure & Oil temp. guages will allow you more warning of a 
problem so you have time to get out of  harms way and to a "Safe Harbor".

I suggest that you go to qualified source, maybe even VW to find what the 
operating range parameters are and note them in your op. manual for a 
permanent reference.

Don
Burlington IA

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Evezard" 
To: "KR News" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:47 PM
Subject: KR> Oil Temp/pres.


> Netters ,
> My type 4 VW was remanufactured by a VW factory and I received it with an 
> oil pressure switch mounted near the distributor hole.This switch was 
> intended to operate a red oil pressure warning light.I replaced this with 
> an oil pressure and red light sender to an oil pressure gauge and of 
> course a warning light.The warning light works well but the gauge seems to 
> go from a high reading to a low reading when the oil warms up and of 
> course with revs.reducing.The gauge may be suspect , or this may not be 
> the correct place to measure oil pressure.After all this location was only 
> designed to switch a warning light on and off.I have only done static run 
> ups but  next time I will see if the oil pressure reading stays constant 
> at constant revs.
> Oil temperature,hangs around 200 deg fahrenheit,during static run ups.The 
> gauge seems to take a long time to start moving and settling.The sender is 
> located ,looking from the prop front.on the lower right hand side of the 
> engine.There was a hole to the right of the sump,slightly above the 
> sump,And I made a a sealed cover plate with a thread to accept the sender.
> Perhaps this will help with your oil questions netters.Oil pres.and 
> temp.is still on my list for final checking.
> Best Regards,
> Eric,
> South Africa
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> 

KR> LSA Certified ?

[D Lively]

Ray:

The key yrom my understanding is that it operate within the "Sport Plane" 
requirements and that you should be prepared to satisfy to the inspector that 
it within the requirements at the time of the inspection.

1)  Max. level flight speed 138 mph
2)  Max Stall Speed, clean, 51 mph
3)  Fixed Gear
4)  Fixed or ground adjustable Prop
5)  Max Gross Weight 1320 or not in excess of that which pushes #2 above 51 mph 

The KR easily fits all but #1 & #2.  Your Engine and prop selection easily will 
assure #1 and by far the most difficult to meet is #2.  Stall speed is a 
function of wing loading and the Diehl wings give you a larger wing area which 
will lower your wing loading (Gross Wt/ Wing Area).  I had found a program  on 
the net that I lost track of and can not find that I used for my KR2 with "S" 
wings that determined my max. gross wt. would be limited to 886# which is not 
bad as the plans say 900#.  I know this little program is out on the net but 
finding it again is another issue.  I have noted that several KR's have been 
built with smaller engines that do seem to meet the requirements but most do 
not because they are built with larger engines and higher gross weights.  The 
original design was as a retract gear craft which was probably a primary reason 
for it not making the list.

Don Lively



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject: KR> LSA Certified ?


>   Kr Netters,
>   I hesitate to bring this up again, but
>I should be ready to have my Kr2s inspected in 2 or 3 months. I don't  
> know
> if it is possible to get the plane listed as LSA. How do you know if the 
> stall speed
> will be low enough before you fly it? I do have an 1835 VW engine. I do have 
> Diehl
> wing skins. My empty weight should be close to 650 lbs. I am 83, have never 
> flown
> in a KR2S. I passed my FAA medical 2 years ago and am still in good health. 
> The
> main advantage to having my Kr2S  as an LSA would be not having to bother with
> the medical. It also might be an advantage  when selling. Has any KR ever been
> certified LSA?
> 
> Ray Goree
>  
> Arlington, Texas
> Ray Goree
> 817-795-4779
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KR> Landing Gear

[D Lively]

Bobby:

Many have reported that the fixed conv. gear configurations are slightly 
faster than the retract version.  They speculate that it is because the 
wheel do not fully retract therefore making the airflow more disrupted than 
the fixed cov. geared version.

This has bee n talked about at length.

Don


- Original Message - 
From: "bobby burington" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 1:35 PM
Subject: KR> Landing Gear


> Hello,
>
> I see from the construction photos that it looks like most builders are 
> using the fixed tri gear up front and not the retractable .  Wouldn't the 
> retractable gear increase the speed of the aircraft ?.
>
> Since I haven't quite made a choice yet, can you guys give me some feed 
> back on the different types of  landing gear ?, pros and cons and why you 
> picked the gear type you did ?.
>
> Thanks,  Bobby
>
>
>
> 
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
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> 

KR> Where is everybody???

[D Lively]

Lee:

EAA Chapter 700 meeting discussing the construction of Sonex's & Glassaires.

Don Lively
Burlington IA 52601



- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Van Dyke" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 10:31 PM
Subject: KR> Where is everybody???


> The flying stories are getting slower and slower to the web.  Does anybody 
> have any good recent stories??  I flew to Tucson last week to show my plane 
> to a builder in KS.  He and his girlfriend are taxi testing now, and will be 
> ready to fly in a few months.  He is going to CFI  school i think.  He reads 
> the web, but has been shy when posting a question.  Very nice guy, I wish I 
> was able to take him up.  
> 
> Jones how many days until the Gathernig???
> 
> Lee Van Dyke
> Mesa AZ 85212
> l...@vandyke5.com
> N783JB  Flying  "Snakebite"
> ___
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>

KR> LSA Question

[D Lively]

Bill:

The maximum level flight speed at maximum continuous power can be easily 
controlled by engine and prop selection. The bigger problem is the 51 
mph(44kt.) max  permisable  stall speed without flaps.  With the KR2S wings and 
the RAF48 airfoil it looks like that limits the permissible gross weight  to 
887 pounds.  Since this is a function of  wing loading there is not much of a 
way around it.  I think it would be most difficult to meet the  stall 
requirements with the shorter wing span of the KR2 Std. wing because of the 
reduced wing area and higher wing loading. I do not know what the numbers might 
be for the AS alternative airfoil that some are using but it is tied to the 
lift coefficient of the airfoil and the wing area.  This is what I have found 
out from my investigation.  My conversation with the Kansas City FAA office on 
this issue is that if a plane complies with the requirements it qualifies.

I suspect that the prime reason that the KR2 was left off the list was the fact 
that it was designed as a retract gear craft.  Most people do not build the KRs 
that way because the gear was prone to collapse as many have written on this 
forum. 

Don Lively
Burlington IA


- Original Message - 
From: "GREG FISHER" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: KR> LSA Question


Bill,

The KR may not met this requirement for LSA:

 Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)-138 mph (120 
knots)

It may be too fast.  If yours meets the requirements, the EAA has a 
Documentation package to convert ultralights to LSA.  You could start with that 
documentation package.

bhawk53...@aol.com wrote: When reviewing the documentation for my KR2 ( 2646D/ 
Serial;# 1073), the  
plane seems to meet the qualifications for LSA. 

Has anyone checked to see what is needed to be done for a plane with a  
current N number to be certified as a LSA?


Thanks

Bill Hawkins



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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KR> LSA Question

[D Lively]

Rick:

This is in line with what the FAA folks told me in Kansas City so the 
biggest issues for the KR Aircraft are the speed requirements as well as the 
fixed gear.  The fixed gear is not much of an issue for most as most are 
that way or coverted after the 1st gear collapse.

don
- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: KR> LSA Question


> Any aircraft that meets the criteria of the  Light Sport Aircraft
> regulations (weight, speeds, number of seats, etc.) can be operated under
> those regulations - there is no need to for an E-LSA certification! This
> applies to normal certified aircraft and those certified as Experimental
> Amateur Built.
>
> Rick Human
> Houston, Texas
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ed Janssen" 
> To: "KRnet" 
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> LSA Question
>
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> If it already has an "N" number , then it probably has already been
>> certified - probably as an Experimental Home Built.  If this is the case,
>> Your KR2 cannot be re-certified as an E-LSA.
>>
>> Ed Janssen
>>
>>
>>
>> > When reviewing the documentation for my KR2 ( 2646D/ Serial;# 1073), 
>> > the
>> > plane seems to meet the qualifications for LSA.
>> >
>> > Has anyone checked to see what is needed to be done for a plane with a
>> > current N number to be certified as a LSA?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Bill Hawkins
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
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> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
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>
>
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> 

KR> Termite

[D Lively]

Netters:

Look close as it could be a "Carpenter Ant"  . They are both large but ants & 
and termites have different body shapes.

Both are not good!

Don Lively
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: "Cláudio Holanda" 
To: "Phil Matheson" ; "KRnet" 
Cc: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Termite


Dear Phil:

Yes, some termites (future queens and males), has wings
to mate.

Regards,

Cláudio Holanda
- Original Message - 
From: "Phil Matheson" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Termite


> Is this a late April fools Joke??
>
> Never seen a winged termite
>
> Lucky it was not an RV and get metal mites, they cause rust.
>
>
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch. 20
> VH-PKR
> Australia
>
> EMAIL:   phillipmathe...@bigpond.com
> KR Web Page: www.philskr2.50megs.com
> http://www.vw-engines.com/
>
> ___
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>
> 



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KR> 3 Gallon Header Tank

[D Lively]

Jeff:

A good thought as well but I figured this would also form the ledge that is 
built in to the pre-molded tank and forn the well for tank low point to boot.

The choice of (3) gallons is that should give me pretty close to an hour to get 
on the dround if lose the electric fuel pump that will transfer fuel from the 
wings.  I plan a gravity feed to the engine from the header tank.

I worked on this a bit this after noon and have opted for a core instead od a 
piece of pipe to reduce the volume of paster and had to use some added foam to 
block the dams in place but still only used 1-1/2 12' wide by 8'-0" x 3/4" thhk 
foam left over foam boards. should be super easy to remove from the pre-molded 
tank.

Don




- Original Message - 
From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" <wilder_j...@msn.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: KR> 3 Gallon Header Tank


> 
> What about using a white foam cooler you can get from Walmart during any 
> summer. I think they cost about 3 bucks.  Fill it with 3 gallons of water, 
> mark the line... empty water, place release agent ( plastic wrap ) inside 
> and fill with your plaster up to the given line.   Be it would be alot 
> faster
> 
> just a thought.
> 
> 
> -Jeff Wilder
> CISSP,CCE,C/EH
> 
> 
> 
> -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
>  Version: 3.1
> GIT/CM/CS/O d- s:+ a C+++ UH++ P L++ E- w-- N+++ o-- K- w O- M--
> V-- PS+ PE- Y++ PGP++ t+ 5- X-- R* tv b++ DI++ D++
> G e* h--- r- y+++*
> --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>From: "D  Lively" <riksh...@lisco.com>
>>Reply-To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
>>To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
>>Subject: KR> 3 Gallon Header Tank
>>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:59:08 -0500
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Received: from lizard.esosoft.net ([66.241.145.18]) by 
>>bay0-mc2-f17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 
>>26 Mar 2007 11:59:13 -0700
>>Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lizard.esosoft.net)by 
>>lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63)(envelope-from 
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>>FILETIME=[D83C2D70:01C76FD8]
>>
>>KR Netters:
>>
>>I have bee perplexed for som time on how to make a 3-gallon header  tank 
>>but I think I have a solution that uses the pre-molded F/G tank for a mold.
>>
>>Simply use PVC Foam Bead-Board to fabricate dams in the pre-molded tank in 
>>accord with the volume desired and line the cavity with saran-wrap for a 
>>release agent.   Then place a piece of plastic pipe in the middle of the 
>>cavity equally spaced from the foam dams and any side wall of the 
>>pre-molded tank. In the middle of the volume outside the pipes hang several 
>>very light chains(optional).  Then fill the void contining the chains with 
>>"Casting Plaster" of  "Plaster of Paris".  When it is cured then remove the 
>>pipe in the middle and the plaster cast from the pre-molded tank.
>>
>>You should now had a form to lay up your header tank on.  After your tank 
>>is cured then wind the chains up that you cast into the pla

KR> T-88 Epoxy

[D Lively]

Darren:

As a suggestion go "On-Line" and locate the "Material Safety Data Sheets" from 
a supplier like "Aircraft Spruce", "Wicks" or better yet the manufacturer.  
They should tell you all of the hazards, campatabilities and safe handling 
methods as well as the non-proprietary components.

That should also go a long way toward finding a like product.  I am sure there 
is one and the maker of T-88 may make it and sell it there under a different 
name.  

Don Lively
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Crompton" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: KR> T-88 Epoxy


>I guess this post is more for the Aussies.
> 
> I am unable to find a supplier for T-88 Epoxy here in Australia.  Is there a
> suitable alternative or do I arrange to have it posted from the US?  I'm not
> sure if posting it would be OK as I'd be pretty sure it would be classified
> as "dangerous goods"
> 
> Cheers
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> KR2 as Experimental Light Sport Aircraftl

[D Lively]

Ben:

You can slow the cruise down by going with a fixed tri-gear, engine choice and 
prop selection but the real challenge is getting the stall under the 51 mph 
clean stall requirement.  I think it can only be done with "2S"  or Diehl 
wings.  The RAF48 airfoil with the "2S" wing at a gross wt NTE 887#  but that 
is only 13# below the 900# in the plans.

You are correct though as a "Sport Plane" it is a challage,  Probably not 
possible with anything larger than a 1915 cc VW for speed and gross wt reasons.

Don
Burlington IA



- Original Message - 
From: "Benjamin Smith" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: KR> KR2 as Experimental Light Sport Aircraftl


> My understanding is that the KR2 is usually too fast for LSA flight, despite 
> doing well in almost every other regard. 
> 
> -Ben 
> 
> On Thursday 29 March 2007, Larry Flesner wrote:
>> At 10:29 AM 3/29/2007, you wrote:
>> >Can the KR2 be built to qualify as an Experimental light sport aircraft?
>> >
>> >Bob & Sherrill Sallee
>> +
>> 
>> Go to the archive site (bottom of this page) and do a search
>> >for Light Sport Aircraft ?  You should get a day or two worth
>> 
>> of info.
>> 
>> Larry Flesner
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> 
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your 
> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long 
> to return." 
> -- Leonardo da Vinci
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> tires

[D Lively]

Fred:

I have the same tires on mine as does Mark but no landings yet as I am still 
under construction.  I have experienced one of them going flat and so suspected 
the valve core assy or tube.  What I found was that it was likely is tubes 
valve seat or core and cured it by installing a metal valve stem extention.  
Not a bad Idea anywaybecause it made it easieir to inflate.  Take care on the 
length of extention though because of the limited clearance of the wheel pants.

Don lively



- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Langford" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: KR> tires


> Fred Johnson wrote:
> 
>> What brand/type tire have you been using?
> 
> I've been using the Ching Shen tires that replaced the Lambs  (see
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/lambtires_tubes.php ) for a 
> source.  I get the 8 ply tires, but have no idea if the 4 ply or 6 ply would 
> wear better.  I'd have sent you the Wicks link but I'd rather take a beating 
> than try to find anything from their web site.  I keep about 35 psi in them. 
> Any less and I think they are more prone to tube pinching, any more and they 
> are too springy to land on.  This time around I'm going to put some tire 
> sealant in them, in addition to liberally coating everything with loads of 
> talcum powder.  Walmart sells some tire sealant that never hardens, it just 
> runs around in there waiting for a leak.  I don't think that will lead to 
> any kind of balance problem, but I will find out Sunday afternoon after the 
> new tires are installed and I fly it.
> 
> My tailwheel is just a 4" "homebuilder's special", also from Wicks or AS 
> See
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/homebuilder_tailwheel.php for 
> that one.  I've had no problems of any kind with my tailwheel, and although 
> I bought a replacement wheel, the old one looks so good that I've just left 
> it on the plane and will continue to fly with it until something happens to 
> it...
> 
> Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
> see KR2S homebuilt airplane N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
> email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Backer Boots

[D Lively]

Dan:

Rick Human is not alone!  I may know what they are but by a different name.

Don



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Backer Boots


> Uh - maybe I'm dense or just uneducated but what are "Backer Boots"?
> 
> Rick Human
> Houston, Texas
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan Heath" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:07 PM
> Subject: KR> Backer Boots
> 
> 
>> I just finished glassing the inside of my Backer Boots. >
>> > Those of you who have already done this, what areas did you apply
> stiffening
>> to, and did you just lay up glass, or did you build an angle using foam
> and
>> glass?
>>
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Ordinary Insulation Foam & Glass

[D Lively]

Netters:

Has any one attempted to coat Styro or PVC foams with clear "Satin Urethane" 
to seal it and then "Glass" over it.  -- Non Structural areas of course.

Don Lively
Burlington IA 52601 

KR> 3 Gallon Header Tank

[D Lively]

KR Netters:

I have bee perplexed for som time on how to make a 3-gallon header  tank but I 
think I have a solution that uses the pre-molded F/G tank for a mold.

Simply use PVC Foam Bead-Board to fabricate dams in the pre-molded tank in 
accord with the volume desired and line the cavity with saran-wrap for a 
release agent.   Then place a piece of plastic pipe in the middle of the cavity 
equally spaced from the foam dams and any side wall of the pre-molded tank. In 
the middle of the volume outside the pipes hang several very light 
chains(optional).  Then fill the void contining the chains with "Casting 
Plaster" of  "Plaster of Paris".  When it is cured then remove the pipe in the 
middle and the plaster cast from the pre-molded tank.

You should now had a form to lay up your header tank on.  After your tank is 
cured then wind the chains up that you cast into the plaster on a slotted flat 
bar to break up the plaster form and free your new tank.  

I got this idea from the way filament winding forms are made for limited 
production cylindrical tanks.

Don Lively
Burlington IA 52601

KR> Source of Douglas Fir (Spruce vs Douglas Fir)

[D Lively]

I have looked at Lowe's and Menard's and found that if you get lucky you can 
find some that will meet grain requirements but you have to look in through the 
"Clear" material carefully and you have to get lucky and find the pieces that 
happened to have been in the 1/4 sawn orientation.  Probably could do the same 
at "Home Depot" or any premium grade lumber sorce but be prepared to look 
through a lot of  boards and to follow the ASTM Specs for aircraft spruce very 
carefully.

A/C Spuce is expensive because much of the wood from milling of the trees just 
does not meet the stds. that is why it is expensive.

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Scott William" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Source of Douglas Fir (Spruce vs Douglas Fir)


>I looked there and found that stuffbut not without
> knots and flaws.  
> 
> Scott
> --- GeorgeM  wrote:
> 
>> wilder_jeff Wilder wrote:
>> 
>> >where did you find the Fir that meets AC quality?
>> >  
>> >
>> You are not going to believe if I'll tell you - at
>> your local Lowe's 
>> next to oak boards - 32 rings per inch! and straight
>> too. :-)
>> 
>> GeorgeM
>> Westbury, Long Island, NY
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at
>> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go 
> with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Source of Douglas Fir

[D Lively]

KR-netters:

That is why you must pay careful attention to the ASTM specs for A/C spruce, 
They are Tough.

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Brant Hollensbe" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:34 PM
Subject: KR> Source of Douglas Fir 


> 
> Everyone needs to understand that the construction grade Douglas fir that is
> sold at stores like Lowe's, Home Depot, and the local Mom and Pop
> lumberyards must meet or exceed certain industry standards to be called
> construction grade lumber.
> 
> As the lumber mill, cuts the trees into usable lumber, they will inspect and
> make sure that their lumber meets this standard and reject lumber that do
> not meet it.
> 
> What that means to Airplane builders is that occasionally we can find lumber
> at the store, that not only exceeds the standards of building lumber for our
> homebut that it will meet the standards required for aircraft wood too.
> 
> It takes a careful eye and some knowledge of grading lumber to discover
> these hidden treasures.
> I will warn some you that lumber marked HEM/FIR and often sold as Douglas
> fir is in fact a mixture of hemlock wood and species of fir (not necessary
> Douglas fir).  Then there is also the issue of moisture content to contend
> with.
> 
> Brant Hollensbe
> DSM Iowa
> Bhollensbe at mchsi.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Thrust Line issues

[D Lively]

Colin:

I spoke with Steve at GPAS and his comment was that the lowest rpm rduction of 
their PSRU would likely require to long of a prop to work with a KR2 for ground 
clearance reasons but my desire was to stick with the 3400 rpm max and not push 
the rpm up to 4400 rpm max.  I do intend water cooled heads principly for a 
"Cabin Heat" source to get away from the time honored exhaust heat muff so as 
to reduce the opportunity for CO intrusion.

I still have no clean answer on the effects of the Thrust CL change but it is 
but 5 inches which still would leave the stabilizer in the prop wash.

I learned long ago that the dumbest questions are the ones not ask!

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Colin Rainey" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:07 AM
Subject: KR> Thrust Line issues


> Don and netters
> Something else came to mind the other day when considering the effects of
> raised or lowered thrust line. During flight training to become CFI's we
> were always told that the reason the Piper Seminole was made with a high "T"
> tail as compared to its sister plane the Piper Seneca which had a
> traditional tail (and 2 more seats, but that is another story) is because
> the Seminole was really ear marked for the training market, and so Piper
> wanted the tail in "clean air". This was supposed to make it safer to flight
> train in. I am told that the same designer, later worked for Beech and
> designed the Duchess, which is why so much of the configuration resembles
> the Seminole.
> 
> My point for this post is this: while in most cases planes are designed with
> the empennage "in the prop wash", some very successful designs are not.
> These planes seem to experience less pitch change due to the change in the
> amount of prop thrust over the elevator/stabilator, and the change is more a
> function of airspeed/airflow. If by raising the thrust line, one lessens the
> amount of prop wash over the elevator of a particular KR2 or S, that builder
> may find a nice softening of the effectiveness, without becoming dangerous.
> Then again it may favor one side only, causing good nose up authority, but
> lose some nose down authority.
> 
> I would also think that if the builder then used a longer prop taking
> advantage of the greater ground clearance, he might not have any change in
> the behavior of the plane to speak of at all.
> 
> Just some ideas for thought. I was once considering a PSRU or re-drive as
> some call them, for my 1915 cc VW original engine. Had I installed that, I
> would have been 4 to 5 inches higher. This may be an issue many builders
> have contemplated or evaluated.
> 
> Colin Rainey
> brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to A 
> HREF=http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Thrust Line issues

[D Lively]

Dave:

I am not at all sure what the impact of the change on the loading of the engine 
mount "Force Couple" to the firewall migkt be but I have the "GPAS" 5-pt mount 
and the "Thrust Line"  would certainly move up to or above the Pt. of 
attachment line of  the (3) upper motor-mount attatch points. 

The biggest issue to Steve @ GPAS seemed to be that of prop clearance.  That 
may well have been because I wished to hold the rpm to 3400 max and the 
resulting prop rpm would need to be sufficiently longer to get the job done 
that ground clearance would be an issue.  This was not clearly spoken but it is 
my inferance to what he said. 

Don
Burlington IA 52601


- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Arbogast, CISSP" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Thrust Line issues


> Funny, my instructor called them the "Trauma - hawk" because of the T 
> tail being less responsive to prop wash when you need it the most - 
> stall recovery.
> 
> Raising the trust-line I would think increases the loads on the upper 
> half of the firewall. Maybe not enough to worry about, but I sure like 
> the idea of more ground clearance for the prop.
> 
> -dave
> 
> Colin Rainey wrote:
> 
>>Don and netters
>>Something else came to mind the other day when considering the effects of
>>raised or lowered thrust line. During flight training to become CFI's we
>>were always told that the reason the Piper Seminole was made with a high "T"
>>tail as compared to its sister plane the Piper Seneca which had a
>>traditional tail (and 2 more seats, but that is another story) is because
>>the Seminole was really ear marked for the training market, and so Piper
>>wanted the tail in "clean air". This was supposed to make it safer to flight
>>train in. I am told that the same designer, later worked for Beech and
>>designed the Duchess, which is why so much of the configuration resembles
>>the Seminole.
>>
>>My point for this post is this: while in most cases planes are designed with
>>the empennage "in the prop wash", some very successful designs are not.
>>These planes seem to experience less pitch change due to the change in the
>>amount of prop thrust over the elevator/stabilator, and the change is more a
>>function of airspeed/airflow. If by raising the thrust line, one lessens the
>>amount of prop wash over the elevator of a particular KR2 or S, that builder
>>may find a nice softening of the effectiveness, without becoming dangerous.
>>Then again it may favor one side only, causing good nose up authority, but
>>lose some nose down authority.
>>
>>I would also think that if the builder then used a longer prop taking
>>advantage of the greater ground clearance, he might not have any change in
>>the behavior of the plane to speak of at all.
>>
>>Just some ideas for thought. I was once considering a PSRU or re-drive as
>>some call them, for my 1915 cc VW original engine. Had I installed that, I
>>would have been 4 to 5 inches higher. This may be an issue many builders
>>have contemplated or evaluated.
>>
>>Colin Rainey
>>brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
>>
>>___
>>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>>Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to A 
>>HREF=http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>  
>>
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to A 
> HREF=http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Spinner bulkheads

[D Lively]

Brian:

I did a metal spinning demonstration for my "Processes of Industry" course in 
College. 

(4) importent things are:

1)  Select an aluminum that does not work harden  or plan on anealing the in 
process work many times or it will spring back and in the end work harden and 
crack.

2)  Wood mandrels should be a good hard wood that will not separate along the 
grain structure.

3)  Wood lathe should have a head-stock bearing that can take a substantial 
lateral load.

4) Spinning tool might need to be 24" long or so of hickory or the same 
material as a base ball bat

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Kraut" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Spinner bulkheads


>I have always wanted to try metal spinning on my lathe, but have not had a
> chance.  Since I have not done it myself yet I can't give you any advice,
> but I have seen books on metal spinning in the Lindsay's technical books
> catalog.  I don't see it online, but you can get a catalog at
> http://www.lindsaybks.com/.  A lot of other good books there also.
> 
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of ralph h snyder
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:26 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: KR> Spinner bulkheads
> 
> 
> Netters
>  I have tried to roll the flange for my spinner bulkhead on my lathe and it
> is not working. The first attempt was 2024T3 .050. I clamped it between 2
> pieces of 3/4" particle board and bolted it on a face plate. Using a large
> ball bearing mounted on my toolpost I managed to roll it about 20 degrees.
> 2nd attempt was with 6061T6 .040. I managed to roll it farther, but then the
> edge tore apart and folded over each other. I realize I am trying to shorten
> the metal on the flange and make it thicker, and it won't work with tempered
> metal.
>  Will it work with 0 temper and then have it heat treated after? What are
> some of you doing to roll that flange, and what thickness and metal are you
> using?
> 
> Ralph Snyder
>  Burbank, CA
>  ralphnd...@sbcglobal.net
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
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>

KR> Raising the Thrust line 5 Inches

[D Lively]

KRnetters:

I have a GP 5 pt mount on my ship that I purchased be fore I found out about 
the wood prop requirement.  I am considering the possibility of  adding their 
front drive PSRU so I can use a "Warp Drive" composite Ground adjustable prop 
instead.

What is your opinion?  The PSRU raised the prop C.L. 5"

The other alternative will br to add some kind of adapter to lower the engine 
5" but I am not sure that can be done, I have my doubts.

Don Lively
Burlington IA 52601

KR> Raising the Thrust line 5 Inches

[D Lively]

KR Netters & Randy:

Still seeking an answer to the thrust-line question.

Don Lively




- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Smith" 
To: "KR net" 
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: KR> Raising the Thrust line 5 Inches


> Yes I tried a Warp drive and an Ivo with and without
> the electric pitch. I took a trip to El paso and had
> to go through a ravine to get past the Guadalupe. Warp
> would not refund my money so I gave that prop away for
> $100. Ivo said I might have that problem and he gave
> me a full refund. At the time there was no difference
> between an Ivo and Warp. Ivo owned the Warp design and
> sold it. They failed to pay all the bill so Ivo
> started back up again. His real business is
> ultralights.
> 
> 
> --- Stephen Teate  wrote:
> 
>> Hey Randy,
>> It sounds like you have personal experience with
>> this one. Is the 130mph
>> true even if it is pitched higher?
>> 
>> Stephen
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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KR> Raising the Thrust line 5 Inches

[D Lively]

Thanks John,

I have sent them an E-mail and I am concerned about lowering it 5" because a 
motor mount diagonal may interfere.  The thrust line relative to the tail 
fethers is to an exxtent importent but do not know how importent and mods to 
the cowl & Fwd. deck would have to be made and I am not locked into those yet 
either.  I do not have an objection to the wood prop per SE other than if you 
get caught in the rain but having it adjustable would be nice to optimize 
things but composite props are a No-No for DD GPAS engines

Don



- Original Message - 
From: "Martindale Family" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Raising the Thrust line 5 Inches


> Say Randy, what engine were you using with your Warp Drive when you went 
> cruising along the ravine and what was the density altitude? At sea level 
> with my prop set to a fine pitch (say 12 degrees at the tip) I can easily 
> achieve 1100fpm climb at 75 knots (best rate). Different matter at high 
> DAlt. of course.
> 
> Sorry Don, I cannot answer your question about the impact on aerodynamics of 
> a 5" raised thrust line. All I know is the basics about the couple between 
> the four forces resulting in a pitch down at the stall. I guess you would 
> want to preserve that characteristic and so I suspect you might need to 
> lower the mount. Great Plains should be able to provide advice as I'm sure 
> they've dealt with a lot of KRs over the years since they developed the VW 
> derivative.