KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Darren Crompton]

Thanks for all the input.

I have decided to go with the hoop pine which I sourced at Mathews Timber.
They brought out a pack of 100 No. 1 Clears from which I selected 4 pieces
of 8" x 1" x 17'.  The cost was less than $3 per foot!

Today I have been ripping them into lengths and then using my favorite tool
at the moment - the Ryobi Thicknesser, to plane them to the correct size.

T-88 should be arriving from AS next week.

In the mean time I will begin to plot the fuselage plans onto the workbench.

Building has begun!
-- 
Darren Crompton
AUSTRALIA

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Darren Crompton]

I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.  The spruce
kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is going
to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US).  Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
1/2 that price.

>From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also stronger.
I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't let
her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), so
weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.

I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.

Thanks.
Darren Crompton
AUSTRALIA

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Martindale Family]

Darren

Think about using select Australian Hoop Pine (supplier is in Toowoomba Qld 
I think) and GL1 Ply from Mister Plywood. The difference in weight is 
negligible over the amounts that a KR2 uses. I used Spruce and it's just not 
worth the price to get it herenever again. Get a 1/4 sawn piece of 6x2 
Hoop Pine dry it and ask a local cabinet maker to cut it to size where you 
can watch it happen.


John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
TOORMINA NSW 2452
AUSTRALIA

phone:  61 2 66584767 (H)
 61 2 66869075 (W)
mobile:  0403 049990
email:johnja...@optusnet.com.au
web: www.members.optusnet.com.au/johnjanet/Martindale.htm

- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Crompton" <kr.2s.dar...@gmail.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir


>I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.  The spruce
> kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is 
> going
> to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US).  Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
> 1/2 that price.
>
>>From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also stronger.
> I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't let
> her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), so
> weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.
>
> I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
>
> Thanks.
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html 

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Scott William]

In my experience, douglas fir is about 25% heavier,
but it is also stronger. Just make sure it has the
proper grain count and runout, ect...


Scott 


--- Darren Crompton  wrote:

> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very
> tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative
> to spruce.  The spruce
> kit machined and delivered from an interstate
> supplier (Australia) is going
> to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US).  Douglas fir on the
> other hand will be about
> 1/2 that price.
> 
> >From what I have seen, fir will be about 15%
> heavier and is also stronger.
> I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend
> is 110lb, (don't let
> her know I shared that piece of information with the
> entire Internet!), so
> weight gained by using fir can be more than offset
> by our light frames.
> 
> I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
> 
> Thanks.
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
> krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 





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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Steve Jacobs]

I am seriously considering Douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.



Hey Darren, you have a better alternate right there - hoop pine lumber and 
ply - same selection criteria.

I have made a careful study of the known alternatives and hoop pine is no 
compromise at all - good stuff.

If it were not for an equally good substitute in South Africa, I would have 
imported hoop pine for my current project.

Take care
Steve J

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Darren Crompton]

The supplier I spoke to in Newcastle said that hoop pine was more brittle
than fir, similar weight, same price and more difficult to get in aircraft
quality.  I had discounted it because of its supposed brittle nature but I
do like the idea of building from an Australian timber.


On 3/15/07, Steve Jacobs  wrote:
>
> I am seriously considering Douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.
>
> 
>
> Hey Darren, you have a better alternate right there - hoop pine lumber and
> ply - same selection criteria.
>
> I have made a careful study of the known alternatives and hoop pine is no
> compromise at all - good stuff.
>
> If it were not for an equally good substitute in South Africa, I would
> have
> imported hoop pine for my current project.
>
> Take care
> Steve J
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Dennis Mingear]

Here's the "Wood Book", it should contain all the info that you need to choose 
a wood type for your KR.

  http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

  and here is a great Australian source for info;

  http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/contents.html

  and finally here is the "G" book on the subject;

  
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/ACNumber/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument

  Hope some of this helps.

  From the Banty Group,

  Denny ...

Steve Jacobs  wrote:
  I am seriously considering Douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.



Hey Darren, you have a better alternate right there - hoop pine lumber and 
ply - same selection criteria.

I have made a careful study of the known alternatives and hoop pine is no 
compromise at all - good stuff.

If it were not for an equally good substitute in South Africa, I would have 
imported hoop pine for my current project.

Take care
Steve J


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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[VIRGIL N SALISBURY]

Go for it, Virg

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:37:22 +1100 "Darren Crompton"
 writes:
> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.  The 
> spruce
> kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) 
> is going
> to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US).  Douglas fir on the other hand will be 
> about
> 1/2 that price.
> 
> >From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also 
> stronger.
> I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, 
> (don't let
> her know I shared that piece of information with the entire 
> Internet!), so
> weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light 
> frames.
> 
> I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
> 
> Thanks.
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Ron Butterfield]

On 3/15/07, Darren Crompton  wrote:
> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.

On http://krnet.org/ there is a link to the old paper KR newsletters,
downloadable in pdf. Many years ago a gentleman documented just such a
substitution, along with a test jig to make sure your wood matched
your calculations.



-- 
Regards,
RonB

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Dennis Mingear]

Here's a PDF file that does just that, gives you a selection and test 
methodology for the non-certified wood that you use in your project.

  
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UEP5RcRYnIYwgM31-UmspXnpzXSACpMccoQgrDp9Uu1qDMgymUiKC-4JXir34SzdezeIxQpOdzPeNtENwWQWwg/testing_wood.pdf

  Denny ...

Ron Butterfield  wrote:
  On 3/15/07, Darren Crompton wrote:
> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.

On http://krnet.org/ there is a link to the old paper KR newsletters,
downloadable in pdf. Many years ago a gentleman documented just such a
substitution, along with a test jig to make sure your wood matched
your calculations.



-- 
Regards,
RonB

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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Cláudio Holanda]

Dear Darren:

Here, in Brasil, we are using since the 30's  a special wood to built 
airplanes  named FREIJÓ.  In accordance with some stories and/or tales, this 
wood was used to built the main structure of the famous, II  WW , British 
Bomber the  (De Havilland? ) " Mosquito". (Some Friend in England could 
check this information?).

Freijó is a little bit heavy than Spruce but is, at least, 20% stronger. We 
did some tests before starting to built a KR-1 and the average strenght in 
tension (Dark Freijó), was  1800Kgf  per square centimeter ( 11,611 lb/in²).

If you want, I can check here prices and freight costs .

Best regards,
Claudio Holanda
  -  
Original Message - 
From: "Darren Crompton" <kr.2s.dar...@gmail.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:37 AM
Subject: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir


>I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.  The spruce
> kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is 
> going
> to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US).  Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
> 1/2 that price.
>
>>From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also stronger.
> I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't let
> her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), so
> weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.
>
> I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
>
> Thanks.
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to 
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
> 

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Russ Kendall]

Lots of airplanes have been built using Douglas Fir. It's a little heavier,
but also stronger than spruce.
Russ
- Original Message -
From: "Darren Crompton" <kr.2s.dar...@gmail.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:37 AM
Subject: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir


> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce.  The spruce
> kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is
going
> to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US).  Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
> 1/2 that price.
>
> >From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also
stronger.
> I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't let
> her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), so
> weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.
>
> I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
>
> Thanks.
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[Fred Johnson]

Darren,

Fir is a good choice, I have used fir for my airplane. The complete fuse
without plywood weighs 22 pounds, if I had built with Spruce it would
have weighed about 19 to 20 pounds. Not much difference if you ask me.
Truth is, the frame of the airplane only makes up a small part of the
whole airplane, if weight is a worry for you (should be) try to save
weight somewhere else like in your seats or wheels and brakes. 

I used Fir because I had a great (read that as free) source for it here
otherwise I would have used Spruce.

I do agree with Steve Jacobs though, hoop pine is available to you "down
under" and is a great substitute for either and probably a lot less
expensive.

Good luck!

Fred Johnson
Reno, NV

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[bobby burington]

My plane is being built using Doug Fir.,  its a little harder to work with and 
splinters eaiser but a fine wood for a plane.
  Bobby

Russ Kendall <rkend...@bendbroadband.com> wrote:
  Lots of airplanes have been built using Douglas Fir. It's a little heavier,
but also stronger than spruce.
Russ
- Original Message -
From: "Darren Crompton" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:37 AM
Subject: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir


> I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce. The spruce
> kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is
going
> to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US). Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
> 1/2 that price.
>
> >From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also
stronger.
> I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't let
> her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), so
> weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.
>
> I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
>
> Thanks.
> Darren Crompton
> AUSTRALIA
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html


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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[wilder_jeff Wilder]

where did you find the Fir that meets AC quality?



-Jeff Wilder
CISSP,CCE,C/EH



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>From: bobby burington <bobbycrea...@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
>To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
>Subject: Re: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
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>
>My plane is being built using Doug Fir.,  its a little harder to work with 
>and splinters eaiser but a fine wood for a plane.
>   Bobby
>
>Russ Kendall <rkend...@bendbroadband.com> wrote:
>   Lots of airplanes have been built using Douglas Fir. It's a little 
>heavier,
>but also stronger than spruce.
>Russ
>- Original Message -
>From: "Darren Crompton"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:37 AM
>Subject: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir
>
>
> > I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> > seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce. The 
>spruce
> > kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is
>going
> > to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US). Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
> > 1/2 that price.
> >
> > >From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also
>stronger.
> > I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't 
>let
> > her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), 
>so
> > weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.
> >
> > I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Darren Crompton
> > AUSTRALIA
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>___
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>
>
>
>-
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KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[bobby burington]

Hello Jeff,

  I actually milled my own lumber for my plane.  I live in the middle of a 
national forest and I am lucky enough to have a neighbor down the road with a 
large saw mill. So we picked logs with a good grain and he rough cut the logs 
to lumber size plus a little, then I stacked and dried the lumber and then I 
milled it to the exact size I wanted. 

  I was able to pick the most premimum boards with the right grain for building 
the plane.  

  heres a good EAA article with info and reference to mil spec bulletins that 
would be good to get.   
http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/octbuilding.html   ...

  I also have a cd with a lot of good info on wood types and uses along with a 
lot of other construction information and I'd be happy to send a copy of it to 
you'd like, just let me know your mailing address.

  There is an eaiser way,  I have also been checking the local lumber store 
down the hill and if you pick through their best kiln dried, straight grained 
clear (no knots or flaws), lumber stock,  they have a lot of useable quality 
doug fir lumber that meets specs.  

  Bobby



wilder_jeff Wilder <wilder_j...@msn.com> wrote: 
  where did you find the Fir that meets AC quality?



-Jeff Wilder
CISSP,CCE,C/EH



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>From: bobby burington 
>Reply-To: KRnet 
>To: KRnet 
>Subject: Re: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>My plane is being built using Doug Fir., its a little harder to work with 
>and splinters eaiser but a fine wood for a plane.
> Bobby
>
>Russ Kendall wrote:
> Lots of airplanes have been built using Douglas Fir. It's a little 
>heavier,
>but also stronger than spruce.
>Russ
>- Original Message -
>From: "Darren Crompton"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:37 AM
>Subject: KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir
>
>
> > I am ready to order my timber and being on a very tight budget, I am
> > seriously considering douglas fir as an alternative to spruce. The 
>spruce
> > kit machined and delivered from an interstate supplier (Australia) is
>going
> > to cost $3,000AU ($2,365US). Douglas fir on the other hand will be about
> > 1/2 that price.
> >
> > >From what I have seen, fir will be about 15% heavier and is also
>stronger.
> > I am a fairly light fella at 155lb and my girlfriend is 110lb, (don't 
>let
> > her know I shared that piece of information with the entire Internet!), 
>so
> > weight gained by using fir can be more than offset by our light frames.
> >
> > I'd appreciate some opinions on my choice.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Darren Crompton
> > AUSTRALIA
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe 

KR> Spruce vs Douglas Fir

[PHILLIP MATHESON]

Many Aircraft in Aust are from Hoop Pine. Including my mates Corby Starlet. 
He was VERY happy with it.


Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch. 20
VH-PKR
Australia

EMAIL:   phillipmathe...@bigpond.com
KR Web Page: www.philskr2.50megs.com
http://www.vw-engines.com/