Re: KR> Stall speed

[Mark Jones via KRnet]

Yes N886MJ has the AS5046 airfoil. I was at the beginning stage of building the 
wing when the new airfoil emerged. I had already built all spars and that is 
why I used the AS5046. On my new project I am using the AS5048 airfoil. 

Mark Jones
Oldsmar, Fl

N771MJ  “WunderBird”
www.flykr2s.com
flyk...@gmail.com



> On Jan 20, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> MJ said, 
> 
>> "She will settle in as smooth as a baby’s and touch down around 70
> mph."
> 
> Mark . . . did you put the new airfoil on this one?  
> 
> and question for anyone . . .
> 
> Does the new airfoil increase stall speed and, if so, by how much?  (just
> curious)
> 
> For that matter, how much faster is it in cruise?  I'm sure the answer to
> these last two questions are in the archive but rather than digging I
> thought I'd ask it on the forum for the benefit of others who may be
> getting ready to build.  
> 
> I "think" Steve Glover developed molds for the new one . . . if so, it
> would be a good investment.  My Diehl skins are as immaculate today as
> they were in 1987 when Dan Diehl & Ken Cottle made the installation video
> using N335KC . . . 32 years ago!.  
> 
> Mike Stirewalt
> KSEE
> 
> 
> Mike Stirewalt
> KSEE
> 
> 
> Judge Judy Steps Down After 23 Years Over This Controversy
> glancence-hality.com
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5c44eca02c89c6ca07323st04vuc
> 
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Re: KR> Stall speed

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Mike Stirewalt wrote:

> Does the new airfoil increase stall speed and, if so, by how much?  (just
> curious).   For that matter, how much faster is it in cruise?

The AS504x series of airfoils was designed to have the same stall speed, 
yet due to the lower drag, is about 10mph faster than the RAF airfoil 
(which is why it was designed).


There are a lot of details about this at  http://www.krnet.org/as504x , 
including which set of airfoil templates fit stock spars, as well as 
free template downloads for all three sets of new airfoil templates. 
Yes, I believe Steve Glover does have a set of AS5046 molds, because the 
AS5056 was created was to fit the stock spars.


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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KR> Stall speed

[Mike Sylvester via KRnet]

I am flying the 5048/15 new wing and if memory serves, it's supposed to be 
about 10 mph faster than the original design.

Mike Sylvester
kr2s builder
Birmingham,AL.

Cell no.205-966-3854


From: KRnet  on behalf of Mike Stirewalt via 
KRnet 
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 3:47 PM
To: krnet@list.krnet.org
Cc: laser...@juno.com
Subject: KR> Stall speed

MJ said,

> "She will settle in as smooth as a baby?s and touch down around 70
mph."

Mark . . . did you put the new airfoil on this one?

and question for anyone . . .

Does the new airfoil increase stall speed and, if so, by how much?  (just
curious)

For that matter, how much faster is it in cruise?  I'm sure the answer to
these last two questions are in the archive but rather than digging I
thought I'd ask it on the forum for the benefit of others who may be
getting ready to build.

I "think" Steve Glover developed molds for the new one . . . if so, it
would be a good investment.  My Diehl skins are as immaculate today as
they were in 1987 when Dan Diehl & Ken Cottle made the installation video
using N335KC . . . 32 years ago!.

Mike Stirewalt
KSEE


Mike Stirewalt
KSEE


Judge Judy Steps Down After 23 Years Over This Controversy
glancence-hality.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5c44eca02c89c6ca07323st04vuc

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KR> Stall speed

[Mike Stirewalt via KRnet]

MJ said, 

> "She will settle in as smooth as a baby’s and touch down around 70
mph."

Mark . . . did you put the new airfoil on this one?  

and question for anyone . . .

Does the new airfoil increase stall speed and, if so, by how much?  (just
curious)

For that matter, how much faster is it in cruise?  I'm sure the answer to
these last two questions are in the archive but rather than digging I
thought I'd ask it on the forum for the benefit of others who may be
getting ready to build.  

I "think" Steve Glover developed molds for the new one . . . if so, it
would be a good investment.  My Diehl skins are as immaculate today as
they were in 1987 when Dan Diehl & Ken Cottle made the installation video
using N335KC . . . 32 years ago!.  

Mike Stirewalt
KSEE


Mike Stirewalt
KSEE


Judge Judy Steps Down After 23 Years Over This Controversy
glancence-hality.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5c44eca02c89c6ca07323st04vuc

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Re: KR> stall speed

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

At 01:34 AM 1/26/2017, you wrote:
My only excuse is that I started mixing GPS speed with IAS, and that 
I'm getting dumber by the day...


Mark Langford



And more informative.  Some of us never catch our mistakes.  We 
simply mosey on in ignorance. :-(


As you've noticed, you had to catch your own error.

Larry Flesner 



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Re: KR> stall speed

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Before I get corrected by a bunch of people, IAS stall speed remains the 
same regardless of altitude.  Not sure what I was thinking when I wrote 
that.  Right after I sent that I thought "I wonder why I never thought 
of that before".  It occurred to me when I woke up at 1AM and something 
was nagging at methat's a basic premise of IASstall speed is 
always the same, regardless of altitude.  I've gotten so used to flying 
the iEFIS and having a true air speed indication, the two have converged 
in my little bitty mind.


I think this question is even on the Basic Airman Knowledge test (I 
probably made that up too).  My only excuse is that I started mixing GPS 
speed with IAS, and that I'm getting dumber by the day...


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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Re: KR> stall speed

[Robert Russell via KRnet]

Thanks Mark

- Original Message -
From: "Mark Langford via KRnet" 
To: "KRnet" 
Cc: "Mark Langford" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 8:18:11 PM
Subject: Re: KR> stall speed

Bob Russell wrote:

 > What are realistic stall speeds with flaps?

As Larry said, you'll want to go to altitude and stall it several times 
to get the "indicated" stall speed, because airspeed indicators are 
notoriously inaccurate at low speeds...even the fancy new electronic 
versions that I've used are off at the lower end of the spectrum. For 
example, N891JF stalls "hard" (nose over) at about 36 mph indicated, and 
that's on the MGL iEFIS.  This isn't far from what Jim Faughn reported 
in his "how to land a KR" treatise, but those are indicated.  GPS stall 
speed is closer to the low fifties, at the altitudes that I practice 
stalls at.

If you are asking what's the difference in stall speed with 
"plans-built" flaps, my guess would be about two mph, three mph at the 
most, based on my experience with the much larger flaps on N56ML.  KR2S 
N56ML stalls at 57 mph with barn door flaps, 62 mph clean at "average" 
loading conditions.  KR2 N891JF stalls slightly slower, and even the 
belly board drops stall speed 1.5-2 mph.  These are all GPS speeds, 
taken on calm days in two directions probably at 4000' or so, so it'll 
be a little less nearer to sea level...which you don't want to do.  You 
can extrapolate it though...about a 2% difference per thousand feet. 
You probably already know this though.

More stall speeds are listed at http://www.krnet.org/kr-info.html , 
although their accuracy is not assured.  Speaking of which, nobody's 
sent me information for a newly minted airplane for probably five years. 
  No new KRs are flying for five years?  Please do some testing and send 
me your numbers...

Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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Re: KR> stall speed

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Bob Russell wrote:

> What are realistic stall speeds with flaps?

As Larry said, you'll want to go to altitude and stall it several times 
to get the "indicated" stall speed, because airspeed indicators are 
notoriously inaccurate at low speeds...even the fancy new electronic 
versions that I've used are off at the lower end of the spectrum. For 
example, N891JF stalls "hard" (nose over) at about 36 mph indicated, and 
that's on the MGL iEFIS.  This isn't far from what Jim Faughn reported 
in his "how to land a KR" treatise, but those are indicated.  GPS stall 
speed is closer to the low fifties, at the altitudes that I practice 
stalls at.


If you are asking what's the difference in stall speed with 
"plans-built" flaps, my guess would be about two mph, three mph at the 
most, based on my experience with the much larger flaps on N56ML.  KR2S 
N56ML stalls at 57 mph with barn door flaps, 62 mph clean at "average" 
loading conditions.  KR2 N891JF stalls slightly slower, and even the 
belly board drops stall speed 1.5-2 mph.  These are all GPS speeds, 
taken on calm days in two directions probably at 4000' or so, so it'll 
be a little less nearer to sea level...which you don't want to do.  You 
can extrapolate it though...about a 2% difference per thousand feet. 
You probably already know this though.


More stall speeds are listed at http://www.krnet.org/kr-info.html , 
although their accuracy is not assured.  Speaking of which, nobody's 
sent me information for a newly minted airplane for probably five years. 
 No new KRs are flying for five years?  Please do some testing and send 
me your numbers...


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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Re: KR> stall speed

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

At 07:05 PM 1/25/2017, you wrote:

Great video Larry... I will be flying it off a grass strip.
We have  2500 ft and also 3000 ft runways so hoping that will be 
fine but I will likely use it all.

Bob

+++

I'd suggest you start on 4000 or so on the first flight on a no wind 
day.  You will quickly progress to the grass after a few landings.


Larry Flesner 



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Re: KR> stall speed

[Robert Russell via KRnet]

Great video Larry... I will be flying it off a grass strip. 
We have  2500 ft and also 3000 ft runways so hoping that will be fine but I 
will likely use it all.
Bob

- Original Message -
From: "Larry Flesner via KRnet" 
To: "KRnet" 
Cc: "Larry Flesner" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 6:41:18 PM
Subject: Re: KR> stall speed

At 05:59 PM 1/25/2017, you wrote:
>What are realistic stall speeds with flaps?
>Bob R


Too many variables, the biggest is your ASI.  Actual speed is 
probably in the 45 to 55 mph range depending on size of wing on your 
KR and weight.  On the first flight, after you get comfortable , go 
to altitude (your should already be there)  , in level flight slowly 
reduce power to idle and let the plane decelerate.  Have the 
altimeter  pegged on a number and hold it perfectly level.  As you 
approach the stall you will probably feel slight buffeting.  Note the 
indicated airspeed when the nose drops and recover.  Multiply the 
read by 1.3 and use that for your approach speed.

My KR gives it up at about 55 indicated but it is heavy and shorter 
then stock wings.  Light weight and longer Diehl type wings will be 
slower.  My approach speed with those numbers would be about 72 mph 
but it feels more comfortable at 80 mph with speed brake full out.  I 
get a bit of extra float and make wheel landings but can easily 
handle 2500 foot runways.  At less than 80 for me with speed brake 
out it slows rather quickly in the flare and things happen rather 
quickly from flare to touchdown.  I like to settle on like a feather, 
not like a belly flop at the swimming pool. 
:-)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgdgxVgPNAk  and go to the 2:40 
mark of the video.

You'll get to know the comfortable speed after a couple of landings.

Larry Flesner 


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Re: KR> stall speed

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

At 05:59 PM 1/25/2017, you wrote:

What are realistic stall speeds with flaps?
Bob R



Too many variables, the biggest is your ASI.  Actual speed is 
probably in the 45 to 55 mph range depending on size of wing on your 
KR and weight.  On the first flight, after you get comfortable , go 
to altitude (your should already be there)  , in level flight slowly 
reduce power to idle and let the plane decelerate.  Have the 
altimeter  pegged on a number and hold it perfectly level.  As you 
approach the stall you will probably feel slight buffeting.  Note the 
indicated airspeed when the nose drops and recover.  Multiply the 
read by 1.3 and use that for your approach speed.


My KR gives it up at about 55 indicated but it is heavy and shorter 
then stock wings.  Light weight and longer Diehl type wings will be 
slower.  My approach speed with those numbers would be about 72 mph 
but it feels more comfortable at 80 mph with speed brake full out.  I 
get a bit of extra float and make wheel landings but can easily 
handle 2500 foot runways.  At less than 80 for me with speed brake 
out it slows rather quickly in the flare and things happen rather 
quickly from flare to touchdown.  I like to settle on like a feather, 
not like a belly flop at the swimming pool. 
:-)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgdgxVgPNAk  and go to the 2:40 
mark of the video.


You'll get to know the comfortable speed after a couple of landings.

Larry Flesner 



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Re: KR> stall speed

[donald january via KRnet]

Kinda hard to say Bob. alot to due with airfoil type ,weight of plane at
the time of stall, head wind, altitude, and I imagine the list goes on

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 5:59 PM, Robert Russell via KRnet <
krnet@list.krnet.org> wrote:

> What are realistic stall speeds with flaps?
> Bob R
>
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KR> stall speed

[Robert Russell via KRnet]

What are realistic stall speeds with flaps? 
Bob R

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KR> Stall Speed

[Neville Sutton]

Can the stall speed be lowers a tad for the KR2-S**
**
I told it can by making the plane lighter

How is this achieved

KR> Stall speed anunuciator

[WARRON GRAY]

I have a friend that flies R C stuff and was visiting his site and saw somthing 
might be useful or not to some here. It is a stall speed anunciator for his 
models but looking at it maybe someone can get an idea from it, who knows. Here 
is his site and go down page to see this thing, Warron 
http://www.rcaviation.com/fiorenze/

KR> Stall speed

[Colin & Bev Rainey]

Mark
Yes it lowers the stall speed due to the reduced drag of the aircraft in ground 
effect as compared to a measured stall speed in flight say at 2000'.

I stand corrected if someone finds it in print from a reputable source but I 
don't believe there is a set amount. It has a great deal to do with wingspan, 
proximity to the ground, the angle of attack it stalls at out of ground effect, 
etc...

I would think that it is approximately 3 to 5 mph depending on the KR. This is 
best guess because I am not looking there when I am landing. Kinda hard to tell 
because your sink rate is beginning to increase just before, so you are flaring 
to control that for a 3 point and the wheel landing you just let it come on 
above the stall speed.

Colin

KR> stall speed

[larry flesner]

 Stall speeds have been confirmed now at 69 mph power on, 71 mph power off,
with or without speed brake.  It is my contention (opinion) that since the
speed brake does not effect the stall speeds, it is not producing
significant lift, or the stall speeds should reduce reflecting the
additional lift added. 
>Colin & Beverly Rainey


Colin,

The fun is just beginning!!!

Those stall speeds , I'm assuming, are indicated and a bit on the high side.

My KR, at 765 pounds empty, is off and flying at just a slight bit over 
50mph "indicated" and stalls at altitude at well under 60 mph indicated.
My ASI seems to be fairly accurate through most of the level flight
ranges.  I can slow-flight with ultralights (Kolbs, Challengers, etc.)
at about 60 mph indicated.  I'm GUESSING my actual stall speed is
probably around 55 mph.

Larry Flesner