Réf. : RE: KR> vw performance
If I remember well, Colin Hales keeps complaining in his diary of the lack
of reliability of that engine. I suppose it's teething problems that have
been solved since, since Jabirus now sell like hot cakes. Yet,, you still
can build a couple VWs for the price of a Jabiru...
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France
Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
13/09/2006 11:13
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 13/09/2006 11:13
Pour :
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : RE: KR> vw performance
Hi,
have a look at http://www.leburg.freeserve.co.uk/
I know of several VWs flying with these jobbies, everybody very happy.
However if I had the budget, and was at your build stage I would ignore VW
engines and look at a Jabiru. The 80HP motor is approx 60kg ( 140 lbs )
inc starter. Colin Hales flew UK to Oz in his - 2 up, that's good enough
for me.
Pete
> Just one thing, on my engine my distributor hole has been blocked of, so
> I have to go for electronic pick up sensors mounted on a disk where the
> flywheel ought to be. (Yes, unless I hear otherwise, I'll have
> everything but the part required for the oil seal removed from my
> flywheel) Anybody in South Africa able to recommend an off the shelve
> ignition system that will work? I am still a long way off from using the
> engine, but might as well send it away now for all the modifications.
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KR> vw performance
Hi Hennie For an ignition system take a ride down to your nearest second hand motorcycle parts dealer and ask for the complete ignition from a Honda CB750F or CB900F. Be sure to ask for the centrifugal advance mechanism from the end of the crank as well. I have seen this system work in a KR2 for a few hundred hours without so much as a hiccup (which Serge now owns and I flew in for about 8 hours total), a half type IV VW and now replacing the brand new aerovee system in the new Whisper Express. I am sure you will be 100% happy with its performance, ask Serge. (You shouldn't pay more than R800.0 for the lot) Regards Dene Collett KR2SRT builder South africa Whisper assembler See: www.whisperaircraft.com mailto: av...@telkomsa.net
KR> vw performance
Hi Dene, Serge, Pete & all, Thank you for your response. Dene, I will definitely look at your suggestion - sounds really good. Pete, I agree with you on the Jabiru. I have never looked at their prices over here - I just assumed that they would be expensive & I think my assumption is correct. Happy building to everyone, Hennie "For an ignition system...complete ignition from a Honda CB750F or CB900F" - This e-mail is confidential and is for the addressee only. Please refer to http://www.kumbaresources.com/email-disclaimer for important disclaimers. -
Re: Réf. : RE: KR> vw performance
Hi Serge > If I remember well, Colin Hales keeps complaining in his diary of the > lack of reliability of that engine. I suppose it's teething problems Colin had a very early engine, to the best of my knowledge these probs have been fixed in later engines. Agree - not cheap, quality never is ! Pete
KR> VW performance
Hennie I took a quick look at my Chilton book at similar engine sizes and their associated hp ratings as reported, and 2.3L to 2.5L engines were coming in at 100 to 105 hp by several manufacturers. Bear in mind that these are EFI engines with computer management engines so there is some advantages in the performance department there. If you desire to truly get these numbers, there is a source for bolt on fuel injection made for the VW that someone posted a while ago. I searched for it, but I cannot find it. There was a link to a webpage detailing the package, how it was installed and operated. It uses a simple controller like the Holley TBI fuel injection kits where you set the idle speed desired, mixture at idle, at cruise, and amount of enrichment during acceleration. Most of the V8 systems I have seen give you a basic fuel curve, but require the use of a laptop computer to interface and program for exactly what you need. I really liked the simplified controller that has knobs on the outside that you just set like a carb. They give you starting recommendations to get cranked up and then you tweek it from there. The down sides are that it takes longer to install, you have to have a return fuel line for recirculation of fuel, a higher pressure pump than you have now, and another hole in the firewall for the computer wiring harness. I don't think the one I saw did closed loop operation, so it was like dialing a carb. No need for O2 sensor install etc... I stand corrected if someone is either getting these numbers from a carburated VW, or has at least dyno-ed one to these hp numbers. I personally feel like the max hp number is a little inflated, and probably closer to 90 hp peak. From my research, EFI is good for 10 to 15 hp increase in most smaller engines (dependent greatly on the engine's output to begin with), so taking that away you have 90 hp peak and between 80 to 85 hp at cruise. If you do get those hp numbers you may find that your prop is under pitched and needing to be out closer to 54 or 56 pitch to be able to use all the torque available. A netter posted some very informative and complete information discouraging the use of the Hirth engine due to quality control issues and the total lack of factory support after the sale and problems began. Sorry I do not remember who it was, but if memory serves he was in your area, South Africa. I would research this extensively before using their engines. It is my understanding that they are used primarily by the Ultralight crowd. Colin Rainey Apex Mortgage Company 386.615.3388 Office 407.739.0834 Cell 407.557.3260 Fax brokerpi...@bellsouth.net
KR> VW performance
Hi Colin & Mark, Thank you for sharing the information. I was really hoping that someone would confirm these figures as being accurate as that would have made the Type 4 VW the ideal engine in this case. The type 4 VW, with a belt reduction, is currently used extensively in a J3 Cub look alike microlight manufactured in our country. Danny Livingstone, also a KR2S builder, has one at their flying club in Parys. They gave up their Cherokee and now use this aircraft for training. He commended on the excellent takeoff and climb performance with two aboard - and they are situated close to 5000ft altitude. I am after the lowest empty weight possible (just something that I WANT to do) and 105 HP at 150# sounded inviting. The recent report of another newly completed KRII in the 450# range rekindled my interest in completing my project and I have started building in all earnest again. Regards, Hennie RE: JACK LOCKAMY'S VW TYPE 4 2459cc SPECIFICATIONS 105 HP @ 3600 RPMs with 151 FT LBs. of torque at take-off/WOT 85 HP @ 3000 RPMs with 148 FT LBs of torque at cruise Bore = 105 mm Stroke = 71 mm DISPLACEMENT: 2459cc/150.1 cubic inches CRANK: stock 71mm, forged RODS: stock VW Type 4 2.0L, forged PISTONS:JE Flat-Top 105mm CAM:Engle Hi-Performance EP-38 HYD (Hydraulic) Duration 206, lift .378, lobe center 105 degrees HEADS: Rebuilt Ported/Polished/Chambered by HeadFlow Masters. Second plug hole fordual ignition installed by GPASC VALVES: 44mm intake x 36mm exhaust, stainless steel VALVE TRAIN:stock 2.0L hydraulic, new lifters, 911 swivel feet adjusters, stock Vanagon 1.3:1 ratio rockers COMPRESSION RATIO:8.0:1 IGNITION: Dual (single Slick 4216 mag w/spark plug adapters and Compufire DIS-IX 60,000- volt distributor-less system) SPARK PLUGS:Bosch W8CC (set of 8) 14mm CARBURETION:AeroVee ACV-04, flange mount,(35mm)w/carb heat, and air filter INTAKE MANIFOLD: GPASC Type 4 for updraft carb, carb flange mount EXHAUST SYSTEM: (2), two-into-one, 32" long x 1 ½" aluminum/light-weight steel pipes exiting 4" below cowling, Jet Hot coated FLYWHEEL: GPASC modified Type 4 w/Type 1 6-volt ring gear installed (109 tooth count),lightened to 8.5 lbs. ACCESSORY CASE: Diehl, bottom starter mount w/20-AMP alternator STARTER:Light-weight geared starter (Suburu EA-81) OIL:30 WT OIL COOLER: remote, Jegs 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" OIL FILTER: FRAM HP-1 FUEL: 100LL AVGAS or 92 OCT MOGAS FUEL PUMP: 12-volt electric FACET pump (4 PSI constant) COOLING:Pressure cowl PROP: Sensenich 54" diameter x 52" pitch wood prop, leading edge protectors installed - This e-mail is confidential and is for the addressee only. Please refer to http://www.kumbaresources.com/email-disclaimer for important disclaimers. -
KR> VW performance
Hennie van Rooyen wrote: I was really hoping that someone would confirm these figures as being accurate ... I have a Great Planes Aircraft Supply VW TypeIV engine. The specs on the engine are as follows: Bore = 103mm Stroke = 78mm Displacement = 2600cc HP @ 3600 RPM (Take off - 5 minutes) = 96 HP @ 3200 RPM (continuous) = 92 Compression Ration = 8.2:1 Regards, Bob Lee N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 91% done only 65% to go!
KR> VW performance
Hi Bob, That really sounds encouraging! Thank you for your reply. Do you perhaps have the firewall forward weight for your engine? Is it carburated & not turbocharged? If so, how many and what type & size carburetor/s do you use and where is it situated with regards to the engine? What size prop do you intend to use? Regards, Hennie Bore = 103mm Stroke = 78mm Displacement = 2600cc HP @ 3600 RPM (Take off - 5 minutes) = 96 HP @ 3200 RPM (continuous) = 92 Compression Ration = 8.2:1 - This e-mail is confidential and is for the addressee only. Please refer to http://www.kumbaresources.com/email-disclaimer for important disclaimers. -
KR> VW performance
Hi all, Just discovered this amongst all my archived stuff; Engine HP Weight(lbs) Great Plains VW 1600CC 55 160 Limbach L 1800 66 154 Limbach L 1700 66 161 Great Plains VW 2180CC 75 165 Limbach L 2000 80 155 Limbach L 2400 94 181 Great Plains VW 2600CC 96 190 Hirth F30-FP24 120 101 Bob's figures confirms the above. Thank you for your reply Bob. It seems like close to 100HP from a VW might be achievable then. Only question I now have is how much weight can absolutely be shed by removing things like i.e. the starter? Is the flywheel, although lightened, really required in addition to the weight of the prop? Regards, Hennie - This e-mail is confidential and is for the addressee only. Please refer to http://www.kumbaresources.com/email-disclaimer for important disclaimers. -
KR> VW performance
Hennie van Rooyen asked (answers in brackets): Do you perhaps have the firewall forward weight for your engine? << 219 pounds >> Is it carburated << Fuel Injection >> & not turbocharged? << I have added a turbo but the specs quoted are for the normally aspired engine supplied by GPASC. >> What size prop do you intend to use? (52" in flight adjustable) Regards, Bob Lee N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 91% done only 65% to go!
KR> vw performance
Hi Hennie, I am running a VW, type 4, 2L, Turbo with a Mr Turbo EFI. Compression Ratio = 6.8. EFI fitted with the following sensors: air temp ( inlet manifold), Oil Temp, Lambda and a connecting tube to the inlet manifold (manifold pressure). Also running dual distributors with optical pickups connected to the EFI. The whole engine is tuned and managed with my HP notebook connected to a serial port. (Obviously removed after tuning) I have no idea what the horsepower is, but I will tell you this: Tied down and turning a De Necker 52 x 49 prop, I am getting 3200 rpm with 46" boost whilst still having 10mm on the throttle. I am Installing a warning light to not exceed 40" boost. I am sure I need a bigger prop. There is no lagging on the engine. It is very responsive. I am buying 103mm barrels & pistons on Thursday, and I am going to convert it to a 2.4L turbo. One of these days I will be having just as much fun (horsepower) as the Corvair guys. LOL Regards, Jaco Swanepoel Pretoria South Africa KR2S, ZU-DVP - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
KR> vw performance
Hi David, Jaco & all, Thank you for your response. Jaco, I will be visiting you shortly to look at your project. Great to hear that you are so close to flying. I think that I will invest money in converting my Type 4 VW. I'll opt for the absolute max power at the lowest weight possible but will more than likely stick to the carburated version. My goals for my project were light weight and simplicity to the extreme. I know that someone hosted some pics of my project before and they show for instance the simplicity of the push/pull tube control system for both the rudder and elevator. No special connectors of any kind used anywhere. It also shows my dual stick configuration which required no machining or welding of any sorts. I intend to use no flaps or ailerons, but full span spoilers connected to my rudder pedals like my MXII. They will act as both ailerons, flaps and belly brake! I do not intend aerobatics so they should work just fine. Also no premade fuel tanks, but rather 2 big 25 litre plastic cans behind the seat hanging on 2 round tubes for fuel. My layout is such that the seats are located very close to the cg so with the heavier engine (compared to the Hirth)I can put the fuel at the back. I also made an extremely simple, fixed, steerable trike gear. I will only use a nosewheel tyre friction type brake like on my MXII. My wings, which tapers from the fuselage, mount inside the fuselage, so my wing attach bolts would be visible at all times and easy to reach. Just one thing, on my engine my distributor hole has been blocked of, so I have to go for electronic pick up sensors mounted on a disk where the flywheel ought to be. (Yes, unless I hear otherwise, I'll have everything but the part required for the oil seal removed from my flywheel) Anybody in South Africa able to recommend an off the shelve ignition system that will work? I am still a long way off from using the engine, but might as well send it away now for all the modifications. Yes David, I saw that Jack built another project, but did not pick up on the flight report of the VW. Thank you for providing the link! Regards, Hennie - This e-mail is confidential and is for the addressee only. Please refer to http://www.kumbaresources.com/email-disclaimer for important disclaimers. -
KR> vw performance
Hi, have a look at http://www.leburg.freeserve.co.uk/ I know of several VWs flying with these jobbies, everybody very happy. However if I had the budget, and was at your build stage I would ignore VW engines and look at a Jabiru. The 80HP motor is approx 60kg ( 140 lbs ) inc starter. Colin Hales flew UK to Oz in his - 2 up, that's good enough for me. Pete > Just one thing, on my engine my distributor hole has been blocked of, so > I have to go for electronic pick up sensors mounted on a disk where the > flywheel ought to be. (Yes, unless I hear otherwise, I'll have > everything but the part required for the oil seal removed from my > flywheel) Anybody in South Africa able to recommend an off the shelve > ignition system that will work? I am still a long way off from using the > engine, but might as well send it away now for all the modifications.
