KR> nice day-visit

[Joe H Horton]

> different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.  
> I took 
> mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at 
> something like 
> 300' per minute at that altitude.
> 
Mark,
What indicated airspeed were you climbing at?? I took mine to 10500 last
night and was climbing at 400 at 110 mph indicated. Sure was nice view
from 50miles from Philly it seemed like I was looking right down in the
streets.

Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com

KR> nice day-visit/service ceiling

[Brian Kraut]

I saw some formula a while back that would compute your service ceiling
(when you can get a max of 100 FPM climb for those who forgot) when you
input your climb rate and altitude at some lower altitude.  Does anyone know
where to find it?  I did a time to climb test in the Stang last week (end of
the runway to 10,000 in under 13 minutes) and found that I was still going
up 500 FPM at 13,500.  I would love to know what my ceiling would compute
to, but I don't have the oxygen to try it.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Joe H Horton
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:09 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit



> different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.
> I took
> mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at
> something like
> 300' per minute at that altitude.
>
Mark,
What indicated airspeed were you climbing at?? I took mine to 10500 last
night and was climbing at 400 at 110 mph indicated. Sure was nice view
from 50miles from Philly it seemed like I was looking right down in the
streets.

Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> nice day-visit/service ceiling

[D F Lively]

Brian:

I have had a 172  to 12,500 more than once and a 182 to more than 15,000 ft
traversing the San Gabrial mountains over  Mt. Baldy in So. Calif.  On my trips
back to CA from the midwest I would routinely go up to 12,500 traversing the
ridge between Las Vegas and Santa Fe NM.   I also have made many trips to
Prescott AZ from So. CA that required altitudes above 10,000 ft  to give
comfortable terrain clearance in the often turbulent air between Prescott & the
Colorado River at Parker and Lake Havesau City AZ.  I have personally determined
the service cieling of a 172 to be between 14,000 & 14,500 ft so at 12,500 I
would be crowding its capability pretty good

I know that the Sport Plane regs say  10,000 ft but that in high country can get
you in a lot of  trouble if you are held to it.  Perhaps the whole idea is to
keep Sport Pilots out of  high country.   Personally I never had a problem up to
the 12,000 altitude for a sustained period but I am not a smoker and do not have
a breating problem and 10,000 ft has always been the recomended cieling for
smokers.

Don
  

Brian Kraut wrote:

> I saw some formula a while back that would compute your service ceiling
> (when you can get a max of 100 FPM climb for those who forgot) when you
> input your climb rate and altitude at some lower altitude.  Does anyone know
> where to find it?  I did a time to climb test in the Stang last week (end of
> the runway to 10,000 in under 13 minutes) and found that I was still going
> up 500 FPM at 13,500.  I would love to know what my ceiling would compute
> to, but I don't have the oxygen to try it.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Joe H Horton
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:09 PM
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit
>
> > different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.
> > I took
> > mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at
> > something like
> > 300' per minute at that altitude.
> >
> Mark,
> What indicated airspeed were you climbing at?? I took mine to 10500 last
> night and was climbing at 400 at 110 mph indicated. Sure was nice view
> from 50miles from Philly it seemed like I was looking right down in the
> streets.
>
> Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.
> joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> nice day-visit/service ceiling

[bo...@hatconversions.com]

Brian,
 What engine do you have in your Mustang? Is it a Mustang I? I have
built both.Bobby




> I saw some formula a while back that would compute your service ceiling
> (when you can get a max of 100 FPM climb for those who forgot) when you
> input your climb rate and altitude at some lower altitude.  Does anyone
> know
> where to find it?  I did a time to climb test in the Stang last week (end
> of
> the runway to 10,000 in under 13 minutes) and found that I was still going
> up 500 FPM at 13,500.  I would love to know what my ceiling would compute
> to, but I don't have the oxygen to try it.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Joe H Horton
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:09 PM
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit
>
>
>
>> different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.
>> I took
>> mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at
>> something like
>> 300' per minute at that altitude.
>>
> Mark,
> What indicated airspeed were you climbing at?? I took mine to 10500 last
> night and was climbing at 400 at 110 mph indicated. Sure was nice view
> from 50miles from Philly it seemed like I was looking right down in the
> streets.
>
> Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.
> joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR> nice day-visit/service ceiling

[Jack Cooper]

In the late 1968 or 69 I took a normaly asperated Piper Apache up to 20,300
. Tho owner of the plane had just installed a large camera in the back seat
area and was using it for aerial surveys and wanted to see how high it
would go.We had oxygen and were up there for about an hour with the
mixtures just about back to the shutoff and making very gentle turns for
fear of stalling. That day was the first picture with the airlpane and
camera over Valdosta GA. at 20300. This same plane made the aerial surveys
of Disney World before they started construction of Disney World.

Jack Cooper


> [Original Message]
> From: D F Lively <riksh...@interl.net>
> To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
> Date: 3/28/2006 11:49:05 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit/service ceiling
>
> Brian:
>
> I have had a 172  to 12,500 more than once and a 182 to more than 15,000
ft
> traversing the San Gabrial mountains over  Mt. Baldy in So. Calif.  On my
trips
> back to CA from the midwest I would routinely go up to 12,500 traversing
the
> ridge between Las Vegas and Santa Fe NM.   I also have made many trips to
> Prescott AZ from So. CA that required altitudes above 10,000 ft  to give
> comfortable terrain clearance in the often turbulent air between Prescott
& the
> Colorado River at Parker and Lake Havesau City AZ.  I have personally
determined
> the service cieling of a 172 to be between 14,000 & 14,500 ft so at
12,500 I
> would be crowding its capability pretty good
>
> I know that the Sport Plane regs say  10,000 ft but that in high country
can get
> you in a lot of  trouble if you are held to it.  Perhaps the whole idea
is to
> keep Sport Pilots out of  high country.   Personally I never had a
problem up to
> the 12,000 altitude for a sustained period but I am not a smoker and do
not have
> a breating problem and 10,000 ft has always been the recomended cieling
for
> smokers.
>
> Don
>   
>
> Brian Kraut wrote:
>
> > I saw some formula a while back that would compute your service ceiling
> > (when you can get a max of 100 FPM climb for those who forgot) when you
> > input your climb rate and altitude at some lower altitude.  Does anyone
know
> > where to find it?  I did a time to climb test in the Stang last week
(end of
> > the runway to 10,000 in under 13 minutes) and found that I was still
going
> > up 500 FPM at 13,500.  I would love to know what my ceiling would
compute
> > to, but I don't have the oxygen to try it.
> >
> > Brian Kraut
> > Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> > www.engalt.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> > Behalf Of Joe H Horton
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:09 PM
> > To: kr...@mylist.net
> > Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit
> >
> > > different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.
> > > I took
> > > mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at
> > > something like
> > > 300' per minute at that altitude.
> > >
> > Mark,
> > What indicated airspeed were you climbing at?? I took mine to 10500 last
> > night and was climbing at 400 at 110 mph indicated. Sure was nice view
> > from 50miles from Philly it seemed like I was looking right down in the
> > streets.
> >
> > Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.
> > joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> >
> > ___
> > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> nice day-visit

[Mark Langford]

Joe Horton wrote:

> What indicated airspeed were you climbing at??

I'd have to go check the data (which I don't have with me right now), but it 
was something like 90-100 mph.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 

KR> nice day-visit

[Larry Flesner]

Nice weather today so Mark Langford hopped in his KR and flew up to
southern Illinois.  A 250 mile trip in 1 hours, 45 min with a bit of a
head wind.  We flew formation to a nearby airport that I usually hang
out at on the weekends and impressed the locals with a formation
pass.  On leaving, Mark took off first and I was on the roll as he was
breaking ground.  We maintained that spacing up to 8000 feet to get
above the cloud deck to some smooth air.  We were both at maximum
effort on the climb and I was amazed I was able to stay with him.  Keep
in mind that Mark has no gap seals on the new airfoil, no wheel pants,
and no spinner.  My KR is basically in full dress.  When he gets his
cleaned up he may out perform me by 10 percent or better.  We got to
10,000 feet at one point and my 0-200 was feeling a bit anemic.  After
playing a bit we came down and had a late lunch.  Mark headed back
to Alabama and arrived safely.  He is off to Germany for a week on
business in the morning so we may not get a post on the day from
him.  By the time he gets back it will be history.  Have a good trip, Mark.

Larry Flesner

KR> nice day-visit

[Brian Kraut]

I put gap seals on my Stang in about 15 minutes.  My conclusion?  Mark is
just having way too much fun.  As soon as I got my KR flying I wondered why
I did all of those time consuming unnecessary things instead of just
finishing it and getting in the air.  There is a lesson to be learned here
somewhere.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Larry Flesner
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:52 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> nice day-visit


Keep in mind that Mark has no gap seals on the new airfoil, no wheel pants,
and no spinner.

Larry Flesner


___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> nice day-visit

[Mark Langford]

Brian Kraut wrote:

>I put gap seals on my Stang in about 15 minutes.  My conclusion?  Mark is
> just having way too much fun.

I have a mountain of excuses, but I'll spare you...most of them.  I haven't 
put gap seals on it yet because it's still in primer and I figure the tape's 
not going to stick well, but you may have just shamed me into trying them 
anyway.  I have enough data to be able to show how much difference they 
make, even if I they only stay on for a few weeks.  I have a brand new 
spinner now, but I want to use it as a mold and pull a carbon fiber one off 
of it.  No real excuse there.  Wheel pants, body work, etc. aren't done 
because it's been too cold for epoxy to cure, and that excuse is about to 
evaporate.  I need to redo my cowling, but I'm expecting the opportunity to 
put a "fifth bearing" on the front of my next (3100cc) engine, so that's on 
hold until the machine work is done on the case and heads, as well as the 
previous excuse...cold weather.  Another excuse is that I'm trying to only 
do one modification at a time, so I'll know what each modification does to 
performance.  That's why I document every flight with notes and electronic 
EIS data stored to files, including altitude, airpseed, barometric pressure, 
OAT, etc.  I do that because I like to know what I'm talking about when it 
comes to KR modifications, rather than speculate.

You're absolutely right about way too much fun though.  I'm addicted, pure 
and simple.  If it's good flying weather, nothing else matters.  I go to 
work at 6AM, just so I can leave early enough to get some flying in every 
afternoon.  I used to never miss the news at 5:30...but now it's rare that I 
catch it, because the really good flying weather is just before sunset.   I 
used to never miss Car Talk and stuff like New Yankee Workshop, and This Old 
House.  Now I don't even remember to set the VCRtoo busy flying or 
planning to fly, or getting the plane ready to fly again.  It's addictive, I 
tell you!

Today was a really cool trip.  Up there in under two hours, despite a 
headwind, and back in 1.5 hours, except I didn't come straight back...I had 
to do four touch and goes in Fayetteville, buzz the house and surrounding 
area, and then grease one on in super smooth air at Hazel Green just as the 
sun went down (when you haven't bothered to install nav lights and strobes 
yet, you have to land before dark).  I did most of the trip burning 4 
gallons of auto fuel an hour at 11,500' and 10,500', up where it's smooth 
and clear...and I can glide for 20 miles with no engine.  It's so smooth up 
there that you can kick back and steer by moving your arms or legs to 
different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.  I took 
mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at something like 
300' per minute at that altitude.

It's amazing how much my plane and Larry's are alike.  The one big 
difference is the airfoil, but he has a great excuse...the AS5046 didn't 
exist back when he built his wings.  I think today we proved again that it 
makes a difference.  I even got to fly Larry's plane again, but it was so 
bumpy we decided to cut it short.  They fly as similarly as they look.  See 
photo at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/060326116m.jpg .

Weather permitting, I'll fly to SNF next Friday, the 7th.  People will see 
my KR and think "gee, I thought he did better work than that...it looks like 
crap".  But the biggie to me is that I will have flown it in from north 
Alabama, 550 miles away, burning less than 20 gallons of fuel (less than I 
could drive it) in under 4 hours (a third of the time it would take to drive 
it).  So for me, I don't even care how ugly it is... I've created a time 
machine!

I parked it tonight with 172 hours on it

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 

KR> nice day-visit

[Brian Kraut]

I'll save you the trouble of making excuses.  I will bring some cut mylar
and the tape to Sun and Fun.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Langford
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 9:38 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit


Brian Kraut wrote:

>I put gap seals on my Stang in about 15 minutes.  My conclusion?  Mark is
> just having way too much fun.

I have a mountain of excuses, but I'll spare you...most of them.  I haven't
put gap seals on it yet because it's still in primer and I figure the tape's
not going to stick well, but you may have just shamed me into trying them
anyway.

KR> nice day-visit

[JAMES C FERRIS]

You know what they say about FUN, either its senful or it makes you fat
and I don't see you getting fat. I'm praying for you every day.
jim
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:38:18 -0600 "Mark Langford" 
writes:
> Brian Kraut wrote:
> 
> >I put gap seals on my Stang in about 15 minutes.  My conclusion?  
> Mark is
> > just having way too much fun.
> 
> I have a mountain of excuses, but I'll spare you...most of them.  I 
> haven't 
> put gap seals on it yet because it's still in primer and I figure 
> the tape's 
> not going to stick well, but you may have just shamed me into trying 
> them 
> anyway.  I have enough data to be able to show how much difference 
> they 
> make, even if I they only stay on for a few weeks.  I have a brand 
> new 
> spinner now, but I want to use it as a mold and pull a carbon fiber 
> one off 
> of it.  No real excuse there.  Wheel pants, body work, etc. aren't 
> done 
> because it's been too cold for epoxy to cure, and that excuse is 
> about to 
> evaporate.  I need to redo my cowling, but I'm expecting the 
> opportunity to 
> put a "fifth bearing" on the front of my next (3100cc) engine, so 
> that's on 
> hold until the machine work is done on the case and heads, as well 
> as the 
> previous excuse...cold weather.  Another excuse is that I'm trying 
> to only 
> do one modification at a time, so I'll know what each modification 
> does to 
> performance.  That's why I document every flight with notes and 
> electronic 
> EIS data stored to files, including altitude, airpseed, barometric 
> pressure, 
> OAT, etc.  I do that because I like to know what I'm talking about 
> when it 
> comes to KR modifications, rather than speculate.
> 
> You're absolutely right about way too much fun though.  I'm 
> addicted, pure 
> and simple.  If it's good flying weather, nothing else matters.  I 
> go to 
> work at 6AM, just so I can leave early enough to get some flying in 
> every 
> afternoon.  I used to never miss the news at 5:30...but now it's 
> rare that I 
> catch it, because the really good flying weather is just before 
> sunset.   I 
> used to never miss Car Talk and stuff like New Yankee Workshop, and 
> This Old 
> House.  Now I don't even remember to set the VCRtoo busy flying 
> or 
> planning to fly, or getting the plane ready to fly again.  It's 
> addictive, I 
> tell you!
> 
> Today was a really cool trip.  Up there in under two hours, despite 
> a 
> headwind, and back in 1.5 hours, except I didn't come straight 
> back...I had 
> to do four touch and goes in Fayetteville, buzz the house and 
> surrounding 
> area, and then grease one on in super smooth air at Hazel Green just 
> as the 
> sun went down (when you haven't bothered to install nav lights and 
> strobes 
> yet, you have to land before dark).  I did most of the trip burning 
> 4 
> gallons of auto fuel an hour at 11,500' and 10,500', up where it's 
> smooth 
> and clear...and I can glide for 20 miles with no engine.  It's so 
> smooth up 
> there that you can kick back and steer by moving your arms or legs 
> to 
> different places to make a gradual turn, or keep it going straight.  
> I took 
> mine to 15,000' the other day, and it was still climbing at 
> something like 
> 300' per minute at that altitude.
> 
> It's amazing how much my plane and Larry's are alike.  The one big 
> difference is the airfoil, but he has a great excuse...the AS5046 
> didn't 
> exist back when he built his wings.  I think today we proved again 
> that it 
> makes a difference.  I even got to fly Larry's plane again, but it 
> was so 
> bumpy we decided to cut it short.  They fly as similarly as they 
> look.  See 
> photo at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/060326116m.jpg .
> 
> Weather permitting, I'll fly to SNF next Friday, the 7th.  People 
> will see 
> my KR and think "gee, I thought he did better work than that...it 
> looks like 
> crap".  But the biggie to me is that I will have flown it in from 
> north 
> Alabama, 550 miles away, burning less than 20 gallons of fuel (less 
> than I 
> could drive it) in under 4 hours (a third of the time it would take 
> to drive 
> it).  So for me, I don't even care how ugly it is... I've created a 
> time 
> machine!
> 
> I parked it tonight with 172 hours on it
> 
> Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
> see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com
> email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 
> 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 

KR> nice day-visit

[jeffyor...@qx.net]

I plan to be there ( Sun N Fun) so if you are bringing  mylar, you might as
well do a gap seal installation seminar, or at least let me watch.

Still in line to get bi annual done, I hope it happens today

Jeff York
Lexington, KY.
KR-2 Flying
N839BG
Home page  http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/
My KR-2   http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/   to see my KR-2
Email jeffyor...@qx.net

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kr...@engalt.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:59 PM
Subject: RE: KR> nice day-visit


> I'll save you the trouble of making excuses.  I will bring some cut mylar
> and the tape to Sun and Fun.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Langford
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 9:38 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> nice day-visit
>
>
> Brian Kraut wrote:
>
> >I put gap seals on my Stang in about 15 minutes.  My conclusion?  Mark is
> > just having way too much fun.
>
> I have a mountain of excuses, but I'll spare you...most of them.  I
haven't
> put gap seals on it yet because it's still in primer and I figure the
tape's
> not going to stick well, but you may have just shamed me into trying them
> anyway.
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html