KR> Rolls
A roll is easy on the airplane IF YOU DO IT RIGHT IF YOU SCREW IT UP YOU MIGHT BECOME A STATISTIC Don't assume you'll do it correct get some instruction first. - Original Message - From: "Brad Payne" <bradleyspa...@gmail.com> To: <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:48 PM Subject: KR> Rolls > I'm pleased to hear others have rolled their KRs! This was one of > several > deciding factors in building a KR2S over a Cozy Mk 4. I was not sure how > serious the +/- 7 G's really was or if it was another possible, but > improbable statistic like the "200 MPH" speed in the plans! > > As a low time pilot (less than 100 hrs) I'm not ready for it, but glad > to > hear its ready when I am! > > Thanks for all your great responses. > > Brad Payne > www.n494bp.com > bradleyspa...@gmail.com > > > Message: 12 >> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:54:43 -0700 (PDT) >> From: william Clapp <ifly...@yahoo.com> >> Subject: KR> Rolls >> To: kr...@mylist.net >> Message-ID: <518420.16703...@web90505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> The KRrolls fairly well but mine is a little on the slow side. The >> stresses on the airframe are negligable. The biggest problem I have is >> roll >> rate and that can be fixed by increasing my aileron travel. Ive got mine >> set on the low end but am sure if I added 3 or 4 degrees to the travel >> that >> then the rate would be correct. The tendency on a slow roll is that the >> nose tends to drop at the end quite a bit. You perform more of a barrel >> roll - not at airleron or axial roll. The roll is good practice for >> unusual attitude recovery and understanding aircraft >> control. WARNING!! Dont go out and do this without some experience, >> training, or considerable thought and reading. These are attitudes that >> can >> go wrong quickly if you dont know what you are doing. >> >> Fly Safe! Bill >> >> > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to > http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Rolls
The KRrolls fairly well but mine is a little on the slow side. The stresses on the airframe are negligable. The biggest problem I have is roll rate and that can be fixed by increasing my aileron travel. Ive got mine set on the low end but am sure if I added 3 or 4 degrees to the travel that then the rate would be correct. The tendency on a slow roll is that the nose tends to drop at the end quite a bit. You perform more of a barrel roll - not at airleron or axial roll. The roll is good practice for unusual attitude recovery and understanding aircraft control. WARNING!! Dont go out and do this without some experience, training, or considerable thought and reading. These are attitudes that can go wrong quickly if you dont know what you are doing. Fly Safe! Bill - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
KR> Rolls
I'm pleased to hear others have rolled their KRs! This was one of several deciding factors in building a KR2S over a Cozy Mk 4. I was not sure how serious the +/- 7 G's really was or if it was another possible, but improbable statistic like the "200 MPH" speed in the plans! As a low time pilot (less than 100 hrs) I'm not ready for it, but glad to hear its ready when I am! Thanks for all your great responses. Brad Payne www.n494bp.com bradleyspa...@gmail.com Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:54:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: william Clapp <ifly...@yahoo.com> > Subject: KR> Rolls > To: kr...@mylist.net > Message-ID: <518420.16703...@web90505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > The KRrolls fairly well but mine is a little on the slow side. The > stresses on the airframe are negligable. The biggest problem I have is roll > rate and that can be fixed by increasing my aileron travel. Ive got mine > set on the low end but am sure if I added 3 or 4 degrees to the travel that > then the rate would be correct. The tendency on a slow roll is that the > nose tends to drop at the end quite a bit. You perform more of a barrel > roll - not at airleron or axial roll. The roll is good practice for > unusual attitude recovery and understanding aircraft > control. WARNING!! Dont go out and do this without some experience, > training, or considerable thought and reading. These are attitudes that can > go wrong quickly if you dont know what you are doing. > > Fly Safe! Bill > >
KR> rolls
Sounds like you are doing the exact same wrong thing on rolls that I was doing at first until I went up with an aerobatics instructor in his Pitts and he corrected me. You start the roll by pitching up so that when you are done your nose is not pitched down. After you get the nose up to the attitude you want you have to consciously get the stick forward to the neutral position before you start the roll and then keep it there. Pause a half a second there if you need to. The tendency is after you pull back to get it in the nose up attitude to keep a little back pressure on it. That gives you something more like a badly executed barrel roll, higher Gs than you should pull in a roll (should not be much more than 1), and a tendency to come out nose down with a loss of altitude. Normal disclamers of should get training from a professional aerobatics instructor apply. I tought myself in a 152 when I was 19 years old and probably got by with pure dumb luck. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 10:55 PM To: KRnet; Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Subject: KR> another YeHAA day in the KR! NetHeads, Today I flew over to Moontown Airport to get my BFR. Since it's a grass strip 2100' long, my CFI buddy (who gave me my tailwheel endorsement) thought maybe we ought to take something that he knew would get us both off the ground, considering the 3000' density altitude. There was an old doggy C-150 close by, and the owner threw him the keys. This is one of those planes that looked like it'd been sitting at the tiedown for 30 years without a single bit of attention. Fuel caps were rusty, windshield was cloudy and crazed, every piece on it looked like it was about to fall off. I sumped it and there was a half inch of rust flakes in the bottom. 10 more tries and it finally got down to only a few flakes per, so he said that was good enough. We took off and got an astounding 200 ft/min climb out of the thing. We couldn't have gotten to pattern altitude using a 5 mile downwind! Eventually we did all the usual BFR stuff, and I was quite amazed at the "unusual attitudes" this thing would get into. It never seemed coordinated, but I guess that was my fault. But I'm used to the KR just staying "right" all the time. In my KR, the only time I use the rudder is on takeoff and climb, and then just a slight push. This 150 was a whole different story. What a dawg! I never cease to be amazed at the stuff some folks sign off as airworthy! But I'm good for two more years, so I guess it'll work. Moontown was also having a breakfast, and KR builder/pilot Ken Thomas was there. He has something like 360 hours on his Jabiru now, and loves it. "Nothing but gas and oil" was the way he put it. He had a Sube, but it was one thing after another, so he stepped up to the plate and went "maintenance free". Maybe we'll see him at the Gathering. It sure sounded sweet as he took off and headed for home. So later I flew the KR around some, and decided it was high time I did a roll. I went to 8000' 120 mph, pitch up, full left aileron, and YEHAAA! Did it. Pulled 3.5 g's pulling out, but for a first time, it certainly worked, but I did lose 500'. I did 5 more, and before it was over, I had the "positive g" roll down to only 1.5 g's on pullout, with none negative, so I'm happy with that, and altitude loss was down to 200' or so. Since I was soo high anyway, I decided I'd do some more testing, so I started doing slow speed (turn to final with flaps) 45 degree turns to see what indicated airspeed I fell out of the sky. Indicated was under 70 mph, which in reality was about 55 mph true airspeed, so I feel a lot better about that now. Nothing like a few minutes of flying on the edge to get the feel of what it's like right before the bottom falls out. I also finally answered the question of "cruise speed", which I assume is WOT at 7500'. Today's number was 155 mph true airspeed. I was coming back from Guntersville headed to M38, and realized that I Moontown was having a hangar party, so I dropped down and buzzed the field at 200 mph, right between two Yaks who were busy doing the same. What a blast! My fun-meter was pegged. Gap seals are finished, skin bubble repairs just need a little final sanding, and I'll throw some more primer on it next week so it won't be quite so embarrasing, but I'm basically ready for OSH. 271.2 hours and counting... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> rolls
Brian could you walk us through the entire rolling process, ie entry speed,left or right roll, ( VW ) etc.Thanks. Ken Wiltrout Kutztown, Pa. Anyone hear how Joe Horton made out today??? - Original Message - From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kr...@engalt.com> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: RE: KR> rolls > Sounds like you are doing the exact same wrong thing on rolls that I was > doing at first until I went up with an aerobatics instructor in his Pitts > and he corrected me. You start the roll by pitching up so that when you > are > done your nose is not pitched down. After you get the nose up to the > attitude you want you have to consciously get the stick forward to the > neutral position before you start the roll and then keep it there. Pause > a > half a second there if you need to. The tendency is after you pull back > to > get it in the nose up attitude to keep a little back pressure on it. That > gives you something more like a badly executed barrel roll, higher Gs than > you should pull in a roll (should not be much more than 1), and a tendency > to come out nose down with a loss of altitude. > >
KR> rolls
No. No more than I would walk you through building a bomb on an email newsgroup. I can recommend some books at http://shop.eaa.org/html/01_iac_books.html?cart_id=. I read "Skydancing:Aerobatic Flight Techniques" and it is very good. My instructor recommended "Fly For Fun". I thumbed through it at Oshkosh last year and it looked good, but I didn't have room in the Stang to take it come with me. I am not recommending the books to teach yourself aerobatics. I am recommending them so you can learn more about the mechanics of flight out of the normal attitudes. There are professional aerobatic instructors that can teach you the basics for a few hundred well spent dollars. When I went up with an instructor in a Pitts I told him that I was ready to advance to more advanced maneuvers in the Stang than the rolls I had been doing and I wanted him to mainly show me what can go wrong when you botch a maneuver and how you can get out of it. The Stang spins like a top on steroids and it picks up speed with the nose down at an unbelievable rate and I knew that I needed some more training before I looped it even though I had done dozens of loops in a 152. When you start a loop without enough speed or don't pull enough Gs in the pullup and you stall and spin while inverted at the top of the loop it has a tendency to scare you straight. Ever tried to figure out what direction you are spinning when you are inverted? Ever done a split S with too much starting speed and been pointed straight down with the airspeed indicator at red line? Those are the times you are thankfull that there is an instructor behind you. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Kenneth Wiltrout Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 12:51 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> rolls Brian could you walk us through the entire rolling process, ie entry speed,left or right roll, ( VW ) etc.Thanks. Ken Wiltrout Kutztown, Pa. Anyone hear how Joe Horton made out today??? - Original Message - From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kr...@engalt.com> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: RE: KR> rolls > Sounds like you are doing the exact same wrong thing on rolls that I was > doing at first until I went up with an aerobatics instructor in his Pitts > and he corrected me. You start the roll by pitching up so that when you > are > done your nose is not pitched down. After you get the nose up to the > attitude you want you have to consciously get the stick forward to the > neutral position before you start the roll and then keep it there. Pause > a > half a second there if you need to. The tendency is after you pull back > to > get it in the nose up attitude to keep a little back pressure on it. That > gives you something more like a badly executed barrel roll, higher Gs than > you should pull in a roll (should not be much more than 1), and a tendency > to come out nose down with a loss of altitude. > > ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> rolls
Brain is correct on the setup for rolls. It is important that you unload the wings prior to rolling. By that I mean (and Brian), pitch up, neutral on the elevator then roll. If you pitch up to your roll attitude then roll, you will still have back pressure on the elevator causing altitude loss and positive G's on the nose low pullout. Remember, pitch up for roll attitude, unload wings via releasing back pressure on the elevator, PAUSE, then roll. As always, proper instruction is recommended:-). Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html do not archive _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
KR> rolls
Does it matter which way you roll?? If you need left rudder to counter the P factor will it roll easier to the right?? Ken Wiltrout Kutztown, Pa - Original Message - From: "Dana Overall" <bo12...@hotmail.com> To: <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: RE: KR> rolls > Brain is correct on the setup for rolls. It is important that you unload > the wings prior to rolling. By that I mean (and Brian), pitch up, neutral > on the elevator then roll. If you pitch up to your roll attitude then > roll, > you will still have back pressure on the elevator causing altitude loss > and > positive G's on the nose low pullout. Remember, pitch up for roll > attitude, > unload wings via releasing back pressure on the elevator, PAUSE, then > roll. > As always, proper instruction is recommended:-). > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 > http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html > do not archive > > _ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 > >
KR> rolls
Left is generally easier on normally rotating engines. Right shoud be easier on a VW. They don't always follow the rules. My stang has an O-200 and it does awfull rolls to the left for some strange reason. I flew in a guys RV-6A last week and his liked them to the right also. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Kenneth Wiltrout Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:27 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> rolls Does it matter which way you roll?? If you need left rudder to counter the P factor will it roll easier to the right?? Ken Wiltrout Kutztown, Pa - Original Message - From: "Dana Overall" <bo12...@hotmail.com> To: <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: RE: KR> rolls > Brain is correct on the setup for rolls. It is important that you unload > the wings prior to rolling. By that I mean (and Brian), pitch up, neutral > on the elevator then roll. If you pitch up to your roll attitude then > roll, > you will still have back pressure on the elevator causing altitude loss > and > positive G's on the nose low pullout. Remember, pitch up for roll > attitude, > unload wings via releasing back pressure on the elevator, PAUSE, then > roll. > As always, proper instruction is recommended:-). > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 > http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html > do not archive > > _ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 > > ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
