[libreoffice-l10n] The meaning of "[Runtime]"

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi everybody,

We have a discussion on the Danish mailing list about the translation of
"[Runtime]" in all the cases like

"IsNull Function [Runtime]"

(https://help.libreoffice.org/Basic/IsNull_Function_Runtime)

As always, if one understands the original meaning completely, it is much
easier to translate correctly. Nuances in meaning can show up in the
details, and those nuances could mean the difference between two different
words in the target language, even if only one word is used for both
meanings in the source language.

I am unsure what [Runtime] actually means here. As a programmer, I am aware
of the distinction between run time and compile time. But in this case, it
doesn't quite make sense to me why it is so important to state "runtime"
after each function that it even has to be mentioned at the most prominent
place, the heading? What functions would work only at compile time? Or what
functions exist in two different versions, one at run time and one at
compile time? And if there was such a function with more than one version,
wouldn't it make sense to only distinguish so "loudly" between those two
versions for that specific function, but not for all other functions? Is
there a "[Compile time]" tag in use at all? I can't seem to find one.

Microsoft does not state something similar to "[Runtime]" in their
documentation of the Excel version of IsNull, and to me that seems much
more reasonable:

https://support.office.com/en-us/article/IsNull-Function-f963233b-1c1e-4b0c-8bc3-3e8c0ea67c61?ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US&fromAR=1

(IsNull is just an example here, the same goes with all other functions and
statements).

To me, the loud "[Runtime]" seems to disturb more than it helps, especially
because even as a programmer I don't understand the point. Can anyone
explain why it is so important to state such a rather non-important fact as
"[Runtime]" loud and clear in the most prominent place, the heading? Most
if not all functions are run time functions; why is it important to put
that fact in the heading?

I am asking these questions in an attempt to gain a deeper understanding,
because maybe there is a point I am missing. Maybe there is an important
distinction that exists in LibreOffice but not in Excel? Or a situation
where it is crucial to know that the specific function is a run time
function, and if you didn't know, you could wreak havoc? I can't come up
with one, but maybe someone can?

In short: What is the rationale of putting that "[Runtime]" after each
function and statement all up there in the heading of every function and
statement in the Help?


Best regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: LibreOffice Online translation

[Jesper Hertel]

Den 26/05/2016 01.43 skrev "Michael Bauer" :
>
> Why can LO Online not deal with locales which are not in the
browser-accept locales? It cannot possibly be in the realm of the
impossible to implement a locale selection feature.

I agree that LibreOffice should not just rely on the browser language.

Often a translation in a specific language can be of low quality (now I
speak of the general case and not just LibreOffice), and in that case I
would want to be able to choose the English version - i hate when I am
stuck with a bad translation in my native language. And I can easily
imagine that some translations of LibreOffice are not perfect due to lack
of resources. To me it's too simplistic just to use the browser language
with no option of overriding it. It would be fine to use the browser
language as a default, but it should be possible to change the LibreOffice
language without having to change the entire language of the browser. Just
as it is in the desktop version of LibreOffice - you don't have to change
the operating system language to change the LibreOffice GUI language.

The locale selection feature would of course also solve the problem of the
missing browser languages.

Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibO 5.0: Additional languages for formatting

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi Kismabo,

I believe a question like that should be directed towards the developer's
list, sometimes called libreoffice-dev, at libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org
.

This list is the LibreOffice localization mailing list,
l10n@global.libreoffice.org, which has to do with localizing (translating)
LibreOffice into different languages. And while you might try to build
LibreOffice for the purpose of translating it or testing the translation, I
think your question will still be considered a developer question by the
community.

Hope you manage to get a kind and helpful answer to your question! Be
careful though, some of the developers can bite. If that happens, just
remember it has nothing to do with you. Some of them are just a bit
socially inept.

Best regards,
Jesper

2015-05-24 10:17 GMT+02:00 Kismabo adwa :

> Hi everybody,  i want u to help me how to  build libreoffice. I have
> being directed by  this
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnLinux  on
> how to build libreoffice I have installed git. then when i try to
> clone with "git clone git://anongit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core
> libreoffice ", i  get the following error.
> '
> '
> Cloning into 'libreoffice'...
> fatal: unable to connect to anongit.freedesktop.org:
> anongit.freedesktop.org: Name or service not known
> '
> '
>
> how should i solve this?
>
> is it possible to download the source code and copy to /.git directory
> instead of running "git clone
> git://anongit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core libreoffice " command?
> i tried it  as following,
> i downloaded source code of libreoffice and i copied to
> home/.git/libreoffice, when i run
>  it told me that there is no autogen.sh file.
>
> $ cd libreoffice
> $ ./autogen.sh
>
> this generates "bash: /autogen.sh: No such file or directory" error.
>
> i couldn't even find the autogen.sh file by searching in the whole source
> code.
>
> ...pls help me in this how to solve...
>
> Thanx,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/29/15, Sophie  wrote:
> > Le 29/04/2015 17:07, jonathon a écrit :
> >> On 29/04/15 06:48, Sophie wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think this comment from Eike on the issue may be of interest here:
> >>> "Leif, just a note, nowadays it shouldn't be necessary any more to add
> a
> >>> language just for spell-checking purposes, the language tag ny or ny-MW
> >>> could be entered in the language combobox' edit field to attribute the
> >>> text."
> >>
> >> OK. I'll test the spell checkers to see how well they work without
> >> adding a language.
> >
> > Great, thanks :)
> > Cheers
> > Sophie
> >
> > --
> > Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
> > GSM: +33683901545
> > IRC: sophi
> > Co-founder - Release coordinator
> > The Document Foundation
> >
> > --
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-28 2:59 GMT+01:00 Robinson Tryon :

> 3) Who's going to step up to maintain en_US? (I'd love to help, but
> I'm working tons of hours as it is)
>

There must be some American users of LibreOffice? Wouldn't en_US just be
like any other language, with the same challenge of finding translators?
Some would step up if they find the en_US translation to be less than
acceptable for them.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-28 2:59 GMT+01:00 Robinson Tryon :

> 1)  will inconsistency of nouns (e.g. color vs. colour), inconsistency
> of grammar, etc.. within the sources in master make translation harder
> for the native-lang teams?
>

Not if they use Pootle and set up additional language sources. Then they
can use any translated language they want as a source, e.g. the translated
en-US or en-UK (or whatever the British version is called).

But offline translators might not have that option?

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-28 2:59 GMT+01:00 Robinson Tryon :

> 2) What will the language be for builds w/o langpacks? Just a generic
> 'English'? (maybe we can call it "LibreOffice English" :-)
>

Maybe there should be no such build at all.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-27 16:09 GMT+01:00 Michael Bauer :

>  PS the current setup is not foolproof either as we sometimes get really
> bad strings, linguistically bad that is.
>
> If this is such a concern, then why don't we set up a panel of experiences
> localizers who are willing to help developers judge if a change is semantic
> or cosmetic before we land them on l10n in general?
>
> Michael
>
>
+1 to both your comments, Michael.


> Sgrìobh Jan Holesovsky na leanas 27/01/2015 aig 14:16:
>
> be deciding if a change should be applied in the sources (ie. it is a
> change needed for all languages) and what is just making the original
> more consistent?  And again - what to do if the person mis-judges?
>
>  And thank you to you, Kendy (aka Jan Holesovsky), for answering my
"why". I do see that it is a complex matter.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-26 16:40 GMT+01:00 Jan Holesovsky :

> > That's why we were thinking of a en_US version as a real language and
> > different from the sources and
>
> But at some stage this will have to apply to the sources


Why?

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-26 12:15 GMT+01:00 Tom Davies :

> Hi :)
>

Hi Tom!


> Yes that suggestion was put forwards in the previous thread


Good! And thank you for telling me that.


> and i still think it is an excellent idea - or at least has a lot of merit.
>

I absolutely agree ;-).


> I seem to remember there were excellent reasons why it might be
> unworkable


I am curious to see those reasons. Guess I will have to browse through the
discussion to find it. But it is rather long, so I might not do that right
now.


> but i'm not sure if they really are total blockers.
>

I can't see how they could be total blockers. LibreOffice comes in hundreds
of languages, so this would just be a new language like any other, and
adding new languages has never seemed to be a big problem before.

There could even still be a language-simplistic version of LibreOffice with
only the unpolished source code keys used and no translation to polished
en-us (if anybody prefer such a version?), but people that want the
language to be polished and correct would just pick up the en-us
translation like everybody else picks up the translation for their own
local language. Why should en-us have any special status in the
construction of the final product?

It doesn't solve the problems with adding colons etc. to existing strings –
changes like that should of course still be automated. But it would solve
problems resulting from changes in style, correction of non-semantic typos,
etc.

And everybody working in Pootle could still add the polished and correct
en-us translation as one of their "alternative source languages" (you can
do that in the settings [1]) and we could all therefore still use the
polished, correct en-us translation as the basis of our translations if we
prefer that over the more coarse, non-polished key strings from the source
code.

Of course I might be repeating arguments that have already been stated in
the earlier discussion. If anyone can find the right part of the original
discussion (perhaps because they know what to search for because they
remember the discussion) they are more than welcome to point it out to me.

[1]: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/accounts/edit/

Regards from
Jesper

Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> On 26 January 2015 at 10:52, Jesper Hertel 
> wrote:
> > Hi Sophie and everybody else,
> >
> > Well I didn't answer as I didn't feel like finding out what the
> "projects@
> > list" was and joining that list to be able to join the discussion there.
> >
> > I will answer here.
> >
> > I did not read the whole previous discussion but did anyone suggest to
> add
> > a new en-us translation language in Pootle and let that be the place
> where
> > all non-semantic changes to the en-us strings happen? That way the
> current
> > strings in the source code will turn into mere translation keys written
> in
> > en-us. The final en-us polishing will then happen in the translation
> files
> > just like any other language and will of course not affect any of the
> other
> > languages.
> >
> > Any semantic change should of course still happen in the "keys", i.e. the
> > source code, but non-semantic changes should be prohibited there and
> > instead made in the en-us translation in Pootle.
> >
> > This might be something obvious that you already talked a lot about, but
> I
> > just want to make sure this option isn't overlooked.
> >
> > Jesper
> > Den 26/01/2015 09.34 skrev "Sophie" :
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Resending as there was no answer to the proposals :)
> >> Cheers
> >> Sophie
> >> Le 19/01/2015 11:03, Sophie a écrit :
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > [Please follow-up the discussion on projects@ list to keep the
> history
> >> > of the thread there and ease the discussion, thanks :-)]
> >> >
> >> > I would like to open a discussion about the way developers team, UX
> team
> >> > and l10n team should interact and work together.
> >> >
> >> > There has been a heavy discussion [see this thread 1] during this
> round
> >> > of translation. The l10n team was a bit frustrated that there were
> again
> >> > so many changes in the en_US version that does not concern the l10n
> >> > versions (like adding colon at the end or capitals in the middle of
> the
> >> > strings).
> >> >
> >> > Each time, it seems part of this could be automated or a reflection
> >> > on how to avoid messing the l10n work should have been introduced
> before
> >> > those changes are committ

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi Sophie and everybody else,

Well I didn't answer as I didn't feel like finding out what the "projects@
list" was and joining that list to be able to join the discussion there.

I will answer here.

I did not read the whole previous discussion but did anyone suggest to add
a new en-us translation language in Pootle and let that be the place where
all non-semantic changes to the en-us strings happen? That way the current
strings in the source code will turn into mere translation keys written in
en-us. The final en-us polishing will then happen in the translation files
just like any other language and will of course not affect any of the other
languages.

Any semantic change should of course still happen in the "keys", i.e. the
source code, but non-semantic changes should be prohibited there and
instead made in the en-us translation in Pootle.

This might be something obvious that you already talked a lot about, but I
just want to make sure this option isn't overlooked.

Jesper
Den 26/01/2015 09.34 skrev "Sophie" :

> Hi,
>
> Resending as there was no answer to the proposals :)
> Cheers
> Sophie
> Le 19/01/2015 11:03, Sophie a écrit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > [Please follow-up the discussion on projects@ list to keep the history
> > of the thread there and ease the discussion, thanks :-)]
> >
> > I would like to open a discussion about the way developers team, UX team
> > and l10n team should interact and work together.
> >
> > There has been a heavy discussion [see this thread 1] during this round
> > of translation. The l10n team was a bit frustrated that there were again
> > so many changes in the en_US version that does not concern the l10n
> > versions (like adding colon at the end or capitals in the middle of the
> > strings).
> >
> > Each time, it seems part of this could be automated or a reflection
> > on how to avoid messing the l10n work should have been introduced before
> > those changes are committed. For example, if I decide to change FR
> > localization to have sentence capitalization in the menu entries, none
> > of the 100 other localizations won't and shouldn't be affected. It
> > should be the same for en_US version or if really impossible, try to
> > find a solution that lower the impact on all localizations.
> >
> > None of the l10n teams is against changing or correcting the UI of the
> > en_US version and none is against the natural evolution of the suite.
> > What is not bearable is when you have 100 000 changes in en_US and only
> > a 1/3 concerns all the other languages and it is repeated over the
> > branches.
> >
> > We are trying to change our workflow to work on master instead of
> > branches. That will allow us to review the strings earlier (to leverage
> > heavy unneeded changes if possible) and have more time to localize. But
> > that will work only if each taking part of the changes take care of the
> > others.
> >
> > To conclude, what l10n team would like to see is:
> > - a review process of the strings before they are committed and make
> > sure they respect the en_US standards (capitals, grammar, punctuation,
> > typography). Maybe adding the Gnome HIG book to our pages [like 2] if
> > not already.
> >
> > - if there is a way to script changes, script them otherwise wait until
> > there is a script available to commit them
> >
> > - any time there are heavy changes that pop up in someone's mind (like
> > changing ... for …) discuss it with the l10n team before committing
> > those changes.
> >
> > I know it may lower the enthusiasm of some contributors, but it will
> > regain the one of our l10n teams for sure :)
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-l10n-Workflow-based-on-master-tt4131453.html#a4132459
> > [2] https://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.12/design-text-labels.html.en
> >
> > Cheers
> > Sophie
> >
>
>
> --
> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
> Tel:+33683901545
> Co-founder - Release coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
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Re: Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Help text for MIDB

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-20 13:18 GMT+01:00 Kevin Suo :

> 在2015年01月20 09时25分, "Jesper Hertel"写道:
> > Here are my suggestions for examples for MIDB, LEFTB, RIGHTB and LENB.
> Good job!
>

Thanks!


>
>
> > If anyone else is curious, "中国" means China in Chinese – according to
> Google Translate :-).
>
> Google Translate is 100% right.
>

:-)

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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Help text for MIDB

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-19 21:30 GMT+01:00 Stanislav Horáček :

> Hi,
>
> I agree that these examples are really useful. Could you provide also some
> examples for the other functions dealing with DBCS (LEFTB, RIGHTB, LENB)?
> If so, I will add them to the Help text.
>

Hi Stanislav and others,

Here are my suggestions for examples for MIDB, LEFTB, RIGHTB and LENB.

I actually made a spreadsheet in LibreOffice Calc and tested each
expression to be absolutely sure of the results. The spreadsheet I made can
be found at [1]. I made it using the English (US) user interface and locale.

[1]: http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/YbkWBbkZ/file.html

It turned out that invalid requests (half DBCS characters) actually do
*not* result in empty strings but rather in a *space character*.

Therefore these suggested examples and explanations.

The return values are the *actual* return values using the actual mentioned
expressions and were therefore *not* typed by hand (check the spreadsheet
if you want to see how). Note the rather subtle spaces returned.

MIDB("中国",1,0) returns "" (0 bytes is always an empty string).MIDB("中国",1,1)
returns " " (1 byte is only half a DBCS character and therefore the result
is a space character).MIDB("中国",1,2) returns "中" (2 bytes constitute one
complete DBCS character).MIDB("中国",1,3) returns "中 " (3 bytes constitute
one and a half DBCS character; the last byte results in a space
character).MIDB("中国",1,4)
returns "中国" (4 bytes constitute two complete DBCS characters).MIDB("中国",2,1)
returns " " (byte position 2 is not at the beginning of a character in a
DBCS string; 1 space character is returned).MIDB("中国",2,2) returns " "
(byte position 2 points to the last half of the first character in the DBCS
string; the 2 bytes asked for therefore constitutes the last half of the
first character and the first half of the second character in the string; 2
space characters are therefore returned).MIDB("中国",2,3) returns " 国" (byte
position 2 is not at the beginning of a character in a DBCS string; a space
character is returned for byte position 2).MIDB("中国",3,1) returns " " (byte
position 3 is at the beginning of a character in a DBCS string, but 1 byte
is only half a DBCS character and a space character is therefore returned
instead).MIDB("中国",3,2) returns "国" (byte position 3 is at the beginning of
a character in a DBCS string, and 2 bytes constitute one DBCS
character).MIDB("office",2,3)
returns "ffi" (byte position 2 is at the beginning of a character in a
non-DBCS string, and 3 bytes of a non-DBCS string constitute 3 characters).
LEFTB("中国",1) returns " " (1 byte is only half a DBCS character and a space
character is returned instead).LEFTB("中国",2) returns "中" (2 bytes
constitute one complete DBCS character).LEFTB("中国",3) returns "中 " (3 bytes
constitute one DBCS character and a half; the last character returned is
therefore a space character).LEFTB("中国",4) returns "中国" (4 bytes constitute
two complete DBCS characters).LEFTB("office",3) returns "off" (3 non-DBCS
characters each consisting of 1 byte).
RIGHTB("中国",1) returns " " (1 byte is only half a DBCS character and a
space character is returned instead).RIGHTB("中国",2) returns "国" (2 bytes
constitute one complete DBCS character).RIGHTB("中国",3) returns " 国" (3
bytes constitute one half DBCS character and one whole DBCS character; a
space is returned for the first half).RIGHTB("中国",4) returns "中国" (4 bytes
constitute two complete DBCS characters).RIGHTB("office",3) returns "ice"
(3 non-DBCS characters each consisting of 1 byte).
LENB("中") returns "2" (1 DBCS character consisting of 2 bytes).LENB("中国")
returns "4" (2 DBCS characters each consisting of 2 bytes).LENB("office")
returns "6" (6 non-DBCS characters each consisting of 1 byte).


If anyone else is curious, "中国" means China in Chinese – according to
Google Translate :-).


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle meeting at Fosdem

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-19 10:54 GMT+01:00 Sophie :

> Hi all,
>
> For information, Cloph and me will meet with Dwayne (Pootle developer)
> at Fosdem. We will discuss (and hopefully be able to solve) the
> performance issue and the update to new version. I'll give you feedback
> on this meeting and the decisions made.
>

Good to hear that!

Jesper

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Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Help text for MIDB

[Jesper Hertel]

2015-01-19 15:32 GMT+01:00 Kevin Suo :

> A1 = "中国"
> B1 = MIDB(A1,1,1) returns ""
> B1 = MIDB(A1,1,2) returns "中"
> B1 = MIDB(A1,1,3) returns "中"
> B1 = MIDB(A1,1,4) returns "中国"
>

Thanks for the examples, Kevin! I was afraid they wouldn't go through the
maling list system, so that was why I didn't supply any. But yours are even
better than the ones I would have thought of providing.


> I think it is better up to the localizer to translate this help text
> according to their needs, for example Japanese team may show how this works
> with Japanese chars.
>

I agree that the specific translation is up to the localizers. But even
people using a non-DBCS user interface language, such as English or Danish,
could want to use that function and could want to know what it is about and
how to use it; they could work with Japanese or another DBCS language
without having the user interface in that language. So I still believe the
English text could be improved. Both regarding the earlier mentioned
sentence and regarding the addition of several actual DBCS examples similar
to the good ones you provided. Maybe just worded and expanded like this to
show that the position argument is also counted in bytes and not in
character positions:

MIDB("中国",1,1) returns "" (1 byte is only half a character and it is
therefore discarded).
MIDB("中国",1,2) returns "中" (2 bytes are one complete character).
MIDB("中国",1,3) returns "中" (3 bytes are one character and a half; the last
byte is discarded).
MIDB("中国",1,4) returns "中国" (4 bytes are two complete characters).
MIDB("中国",2,1) returns "" (byte position 2 is not at the beginning of a
character).
MIDB("中国",2,2) returns "" (byte position 2 is not at the beginning of a
character).
MIDB("中国",3,1) returns "" (byte position 3 is at the beginning of a
character, but 1 byte is only half a character and is therefore discarded).
MIDB("中国",3,2) returns "国".


And yes, I do believe that this rather large amount of examples are
necessary to make it completely clear how this rather technical function
works, and that the Help should be the place for such an explanation.

Whether my explanations in parentheses are understandable or relevant I
don't know. It is an attempt to explain what is happening to the
not-so-technical users, but even also to technical users that want to be
sure they understood it right.


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] Help text for MIDB

[Jesper Hertel]

The help text for MIDB (
https://help.libreoffice.org/Calc/Text_Functions#MIDB) says this:

"

MIDB

Returns a text string of a DBCS text. The parameters specify the starting
position and the number of characters.

Syntax

MIDB("Text"; Start; Number_bytes)

Text is the text containing the characters to extract.

Start is the position of the first character in the text to extract.

Number_bytes specifies the number of characters MIDB will return from text,
in bytes.

Example

=MIDB("office";2;2) returns ff.

"

But "office" is not a string written in a double byte character set (DBCS,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBCS), so the example is not helpful for the
main use of the function.

There should primarily be an example with a string in a language that
actually uses a double byte character set (DBCS), like Chinese. And then
the example would show that only 1 character is returned when asking for 2
bytes, i.e. the number of characters returned will be *half* of the number
of bytes asked for. It should also be noted that if you ask for 3 bytes,
you get 1 character, etc.

The given example only shows the rather special case when you are *not*
giving the function a DBCS string; in this case the number of characters
returned is the *same* as the number of bytes.


Secondly, the sentence "Number_bytes specifies the number of characters
MIDB will return from text, in bytes" is not very clear, because the number
does *not* specify the number of characters. The fact is that if you feed
the function a string in a single byte character set (SBCS,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBCS), such as "office", the number of bytes
is the *same* as the number of characters. If you feed the function a
string in a double byte character set (DBCS), such as a string of Chinese
characters, the number of bytes is *double* the amount of characters.


I don't know if this is the right place to report this problem.

The problem is probably also known already, and I kind of expect to get the
reply "oh yeah, we know, the help is a big mess and really needs
improvement.". ;-) But maybe I am wrong, so I am reporting it anyway.


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes?

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-14 10:52 GMT+01:00 Michael Bauer :

> Khaled,
>
> Sgrìobh Khaled Hosny na leanas 14/12/2014 aig 06:35:
>
>> but the way people is complaining about them is what I'm worried about as
>> it shows that some localiser seem to have total disregard to things that
>> are intrinsic to the quality of any textual material, let alone
>> localisation.
>>
> I resent that, I actually make a living off this and I'm very good at it.
> But perhaps it's just that a newsgroup as a medium can be somewhat
> deficient for human communication. Please let me therefore spell it out to
> you how I respect l10n and how l10n sometimes disrespects me (Sophie,
> keeping the good mood is hard - if it happens once, it's a mistake, no
> probs, don't do it again, let's move on. The second time, I scratch my head
> and ask 'weren't we here before'. The third time I feel like someone is
> taking the pish).
>
> So... realy examples...
>
> en-US
> You opened %d files > You closed %d files
> My head: ok, content change, let's fix it, no worries
>
> en-US
> [new string]
> My head: ok cool, let's localize
>
> en-US
> %Y-%m-%d > %Y-%M-%D
> gd-GB
> %d-%m-%Y > %D-%M-%Y
> My head: ok, maybe there is more space or something, let's get it localized
>
> en-US
> Opening text documents > Opening Text Documents
> gd-GB
> A' fosgladh sgrìobhainnean teacsa > A' fosgladh sgrìobhainnean teacsa
> My head: Stop messing me around. My locale has strict rules about caps
> (only proper nouns are capped), you're making unnecessary work for me.
>
> en-US
> Opening ~text documents > Opening _text documents
> gd-GB
> A' fosgladh ~sgrìobhainnean teacsa > A' fosgladh _sgrìobhainnean teacsa
> My head: Maybe there is a technical need for this change but can't you
> automate that? You're making unnecessary work for me, this is not l10n work
> because as a localizer I have no control over what marks a hotkey. This is
> a developer problem.
>
> en-US
> The "Terms and Conditions" > The “Terms and Conditions”
> gd-GB
> Na "teirmichean is cumhaichean" > Na "teirmichean is cumhaichean"
> My head: Stop messing me around. The choice of formatted vs unformatted "
> is locale specific stuff and not governed by the en-US source. If a locale
> decides to go from unformatted to formatted, then that is decided by the
> locale (e.g. due to change in linguistic practice in the country). This is
> not governed by why en-US does or does not do. Case in point, some locales
> use «» so the question of en-US going " > ” is even more pointless.
>
> en-US
> The Terms\n\n and Conditions > The Terms\n\n and Conditions
> My head: This is one of the most useless ways of making layout anyway
> because the localizer has to *guess* how much space there is. To make it
> worse, you now make me sit through the developers playing with \n or \n\n.
> Would be nice if someone just wrapped that automatically or gave me some
> guidance as to the space available.
>
> en-US
> The "Trems adn Cnditions" > The "Terms and Conditions"
> gd-GB
> Na "teirmichean is cumhaichean" > Na "teirmichean is cumhaichean"
> My head: Ok so the person who texted this string was drunk. Happens. But
> why do *I* have to look at this again? The en-US typo does not change the
> content of the source so my translation is ok as it is, it's just a source
> typo being fixed. Argh.
>
> THAT'S what we're moaning about...
>
> Michael
>
>
This is an "old" post (I just read it now), but I just wanted to say what
an excellent description of the problem that was, Michael! So much to the
point and so precise. What a joy to read.


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Pootle terminology

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-21 14:17 GMT+01:00 Mihovil Stanic :

>
> 21.12.2014. u 13:43, Jesper Hertel je napisao/la:
>
>> I know it is possible in Pootle to search and edit terminology entries
>> online. (In the Danish project, it happens at
>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/
>> terminology/translate/#filter=all
>> ).
>>
>> I can see that this has not been set up for Croatian (hr); the URL
>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/terminology/ leeds
>> nowhere.
>>
>>  Croatian terminology file is located here:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/
> libo_ui/pootle-terminology.po
>
> Inside libo_ui directory. Not sure why, but I noticed some other languages
> have it same way.
> Anyway, I don't mind having it that way.


Okay. So you can't edit the translations there, is that the problem?

Or is the issue that you want to *edit the source terms* (English terms) of
the terminology or *delete* terms online?


>
>
>  - would be nice to add translation for new entry in same step, curently I
>>> can add new entry, then go to language main page, select "needs
>>> translation" in termnology and then enter translation
>>>
>>>  I didn't understand that. Maybe that is Virtaal related?
>>
>>
> When I add new entry to terminology file:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/libo_ui/terminology_manage.
> html
>
> I can only add original string, for example word "target" and then save
> it. I cannot add translation "cilj" in same step.
> To add translation, I have to go to main libo_ui directory, select
> "untranslated strings" from pootle terminology file and then translate it.
>
>
Ah, now I understand. +1 from me to be able to do that – that would make a
lot of sense. :-)


>
> Mihovil
>
>
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle terminology

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-21 12:07 GMT+01:00 Mihovil Stanic :

> Is it possible to solve problems with pootle terminology suggestions is
> cases like this:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/
> libo_ui/translate/cui/#filter=incomplete&unit=79315589
>
> String is "Targ_et:" and because of _ pootle can't find that string in
> terminology file.
> If I remember correctly, when it was ~ terminology worked without problems.
>
> Can this be fixed?
>

+1 – that would be nice!


> Best regards,
> Mihovil´


Best regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Pootle terminology

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-21 13:13 GMT+01:00 Mihovil Stanic :

> And to further expand this request, I have two more problems with
> terminology:
> - I can't search and edit terminology entries online, I have to download
> file, then upload
>

I know it is possible in Pootle to search and edit terminology entries
online. (In the Danish project, it happens at
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/terminology/translate/#filter=all
).

I can see that this has not been set up for Croatian (hr); the URL
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/terminology/ leeds nowhere.

So it looks like you just need someone to help you with setting up the
online terminology editing in Pootle. (I don't know how, otherwise I would
tell you of course!)


> - would be nice if there was a way to add terminology entry directly from
> translation interface
>

+1 – I miss that too – if you mean in the Pootle interface.


> - would be nice to add translation for new entry in same step, curently I
> can add new entry, then go to language main page, select "needs
> translation" in termnology and then enter translation
>

I didn't understand that. Maybe that is Virtaal related?


>
> Mihovil
>

Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Questions about strings

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-15 9:20 GMT+01:00 ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣ Σ :
>
> Thanks for the answers, but the problem remains,
>

Yes, most of your questions were not answered. This is probably because
your links were not usable because none of us have access to even view the
Greek translation, as both Sophie and I already told you. You did not
answer to that or do something about that – and therefore, it is difficult
for anyone to help you. The ball is on your side.

You need to give all of us read access to
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/ in Pootle. We just get
"Access denied" right now.

The more easy you make it for the rest of us to help you, the more likely
you are to get answers.

it is not the code, but the use.
>

I stated the codes to make it a little bit easier for people to find the
places, but it is still a lot more trouble than giving us direct and
functional links, so you still need to give all of us *read access* to the
Greek translation.

For example
> a) I can't know if the ; is used in enumerations (e.g. in help) or in a
> plain text, because I have to use a diffrent symbol in Greek.
> b) I can't know if the . or , (in numbers or in text?) has to be used in
> local or in English.
>
>
Give all of us read access to the Greek translation, then perhaps someone
can help you.

Regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Questions about strings

[Jesper Hertel]

I believe the strings can be found by everybody using a search in the
Comments field for the codes given below. Check "Comments" and "Exact
match" when searching. The search is very fast when Exact match is checked.

But yes, it would be easier if everybody just had access to the greek
translation at https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/  :-)

2014-12-11 13:50 GMT+01:00 ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣ Σ :
>
> High,
>

Hi Δημητρησ (Dimitrio, right?),


> The questions are:

a) The string ? in (String 29043393
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/source/ui/misc.po#unit=29043393
> >)
> (glossary.src STR_QUERY_DELETE_GROUP2 string.text)

is used as the simple
> question mark or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?


This is code 8aDAD


b) The Semicolons in (String 29044489
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=29044489
> >
> ) (converttexttable.ui semicolons label string.text) is used as the simple
> semicolon or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?
>

This is code D4FLM



> c) The . in (String 40059917
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=40059917
> >)
> (insertcaption.ui num_separator_edit text string.text) is used as the
> simple full stop or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?
>

This is code 8aDAD



> d) The . in (String 48071054
> <
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/el/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=48071054
> >)
> (optcaptionpage.ui numseparator text string.text) is used as the simple
> full stop or for another purpose and should be stay as it is?
>

This is code cAQbj


> e) There are, too, two-three cases - I don't recall now - for the separator
> of thousounds and decimals, where in French it is used the same symbol as
> in English (, .) and in German (. ,). What is the right?
>

As Sophie already mentioned,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark#Examples_of_use mentions the use
in different countries. Note that several different notations can be valid
for the same country.

According to that source, it seems like the French version of the SI style
is valid in both Germany and France:

1 234 567,89

But this is also valid in Germany:

1.234.567,89

f) I think that those cases should be more clear.
>

I think it would be easier to do something about with if you could mention
the specific cases when you see them again. :-) Searching for either "." or
"," would give too many results.


> Regards
>
>
Regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [ANN] LibreOffice 4.4.0 Beta2 available

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi developers,

I tried reporting a problem on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/, but I am
unsure if I did it right and if anyone is receiving any notice about it.
Nobody is assigned and nobody is Cc'ed.

The bug is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87250

Do you think the proper people have been informed?


Related to my experience reporting a bug:

It would be nice if there was a more approachable way to report bugs than
that Bugzilla interface for those of us that do not know the source code by
heart or just want to report a bug without being almost interrogated with
20 questions… My guess is it could scare many people away from reporting
issues.

Do other, more simple interfaces to Bugzilla exist? Where the interface
only asks the most important questions and allow the user to only answer
the questions he or she actually has an answer to, and leaving the rest to
those that know what to fill in in the other fields?

Jesper


2014-12-09 2:21 GMT+01:00 Christian Lohmaier :
>
> Dear Community,
>
> The Document Foundation is pleased to announce the second Beta
> release of LibreOffice 4.4.0. The upcoming 4.4.0 will be the ninth
> major release of LibreOffice, coming with a bunch of new features
> beside the usual bugfixes.
>
> The Beta2 can be installed alongside the stable version, so feel free
> to give it a try. Beta2 is not ready for production yet, and while
> Beta1 marks feature freeze, final UI and string freeze is yet to come,
> and translations are not complete.
>
> A work-in-progress list of new features in LibreOffice 4.4 can be
> found at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.4
>
> The release is available for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X from our QA
> builds download page at
>
>   http://www.libreoffice.org/download/pre-releases
>
> Developers and QA might also be interested in the symbol server for
> windows debug information (see the release notes linked below for
> details)
>
> Should you find bugs, please report them to the FreeDesktop Bugzilla:
>
>   https://bugs.freedesktop.org
>
> A good way to assess the release candidate quality is to run some
> specific manual tests on it, our TCM wiki page has more details:
>
>
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Regression_Tests#Full_Regression_Test
>
> For other ways to get involved with this exciting project - you can
> e.g. contribute code:
>
>   http://www.libreoffice.org/community/developers/
>
> translate LibreOffice to your language:
>
>   http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_Localization_Guide
>
> or help with funding our operations:
>
>   http://donate.libreoffice.org/
>
> A list of known issues and fixed bugs with 4.4.0 Beta2 is available
> from our wiki:
>
>   http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.4.0/Beta2
>
> Let us close again with a BIG Thank You! to all of you having
> contributed to the LibreOffice project - this release would not have
> been possible without your help.
>
> On behalf of the Community,
>
> Christian
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-04 19:56 GMT+01:00 Leif Lodahl :

> Hi Sophie,
> I'm translating on line.
>
> A view like this:
>
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/dbaccess/#filter=suggestions
> is normally opening in a few seconds. Now I either get an error or the AJAX
> is loading for several minutes without any result.
>

Right now that query loads in 4 to 5 seconds again – on my computer.

Sometimes Pootle is extremely slow, and other times it is okay. I wish the
different parts of Pootle were more separate so an upload or another job
that is tough for Pootle did not affect other parts of Pootle, so that
those of us that work on translations using the web interface were not
disturbed too much. But I guess (or hope) the developers of Pootle must be
aware of that problem and are working on a solution.

Do we have any influence on it? Could the tough Pootle operations be set to
low priority and the web interface to high priority, for instance?


>
> Cheers,
> Leif
>

Skål
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Follow-up on en_US changes

[Jesper Hertel]

Bonsoir Sophie,

2014-12-01 14:57 GMT+01:00 Sophie :

> Hi all,
>
> Opening a new thread on the changes on the en_US version, I propose to
> follow-up on the project@ list so we could associate the developers and
> design teams and discuss together how to handle that in our workflow.
> Some changes are necessary and the en_US version has to be maintained
> too but that shouldn't have an impact or at least, as limited as
> possible on the l10n work.
>

For some reason I don't completely catch what you are saying, but I guess
it is something along the lines that we should have a specific discussion
forum for the en_US (American English, the "original" text) version? Or
maybe a discussion about whether we should have a separate discussion forum?

I do believe discussing the English strings are somewhat related to the
translation of them, so maybe because of that I fail to see a very sharp
division between them and the localization. The English strings are, in
principle, also a type of localization, I would say. They just have a much
higher authority, as they become the authoritative source for the rest of
the localizations.


>
> I'm not sure it's the good moment to open the discussion now because we
> are all catching dead lines,


Yeah, and maybe what I wrote above is in some way also part of that
discussion that we probably should not take now? If so, you don't have to
respond to my comment now.


> but I propose to do it


Does "do it" mean start the discussion, or are you referring to something
else?


> on week 2 next year,
> after the hard code freeze for 4.4.0.

Is it ok for you all?


Fine with me. :-)


> if yes, I'll open a ticket on Redmine.
>
>
Très bien, Sophie!


> Cheers
> Sophie
>

Santé
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] I have updated the "Variables and symbols in the UI files" part of the "UI and Help files Content Guide"

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-11-30 15:40 GMT+01:00 Sophie :

> Thanks for improving the guide. I wrote it for new comers and it's great
> that you correct it where it was not precise enough.
>

Thanks, Sophie!

Kind regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Adding own twitter accounts to localized homepage

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi Martin,

2014-12-01 20:43 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi,
>
> AFAICS, no localized site even included other feeds into the new site
> design, so who else could help me do it?
>

I sure wish I could, but I don't have the required knowledge.

Just saying so you know that someone is actually listening and wanted to
help if I/we could. :-) It definitely doesn't solve the problem, but
sometimes it is just nice to at least get some kind of response. :-)

And those that could do something would probably also like to help, but my
guess is they are just very, very busy doing other equally or even more
important things. :-)

Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Choose Insert - Media - Image.

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-11-30 22:22 GMT+01:00 Stanislav Horáček :

> Hi,
>
>  there is a string
>>
>> Choose Insert - Media - Image.
>>
>> But in the menus in Draw, it seems to be just Insert - Image; I cannot
>> find
>> "Image" in the submenu of "Media". I checked it in 4.4 beta 1.
>>
>
> good catch, thanks!


You're welcome, and thanks for catching my catch!


> It applies to all components, not only to Draw.
>

Ah, okay!


> Patch submitted to Gerrit: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13224/


Super!


>
>
> I really appreciate that someone does not translate only mechanically, but
> also think about and test new strings.


I am glad you appreciate it. :-)


> There is plenty of outdated (and of course missing) content in help and
> every report is helpful. If you do not get feedback here, it would be worth
> to file a bug in bugzilla; otherwise your report will get lost here in tons
> of other mails:))
>

Thanks for the tip!

Is it better that I, in the future, and if I figure out how, post things
like that directly in Bugzilla and don't mention it at all here on this
list? Or could there also be some positive things about mentioning here,
for instance to make other translators become aware of this type of "bugs"?
I intend to do whatever you (or others) believe is best.


>
> Best regards,
> Stanislav
>
>
Best regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Ellipsis Extermination Front - Call to war

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-11-30 11:49 GMT+01:00 Olivier Hallot :

> Hi Felow translators and devs
>
> Sorry for the sarcastic %Subject.
>

Haha, I found it very funny!

And I would call it irony, not sarcasm. There is a big difference.

Oxford Dictionaries define sarcasm as "The use of irony to mock or convey
contempt" [1] or, according to Wikipedia, "a sharp, bitter, or cutting
expression or remark; a bitter gibe or taunt." [2]

[1]: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sarcasm
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

And I do not find any mocking, contempt, sharpness, bitterness, cutting,
bitter gibing or bitter taunting in your subject. It is just simple irony
for humour's sake. :-) I love that and use it a lot myself.

I am told that we Danes even use it so much that some foreigners get
confused because they believe we are serious. So I do try not to use it
unless I am absolutely sure that the receiver gets it. :-)


> Actually I call translators and devs to get rid of the single ellipsis
> label in buttons all over the UI.
>
> Having a sigle ellipsis in a button label almost hides the button, and
> for many users, the action behind the button is not understood or just
> not seen.
>
> I opened a bug entry for that
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86871
>
> Of course translators are free to change the ellipsis into a better choice.
>

I like that you spotted this. Thanks for bringing it up, and thanks for
opening a bug entry about it!

Personally, I do not have a better suggestion right now, but I agree that
it is not optimal the way it is.


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] "save and load a list of gradient files"?

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-12-01 22:02 GMT+01:00 anne-ology :

>Commendations to you, Jesper.
>
>Now, I've just 'searched' for the definition of 'gradient files'
> only to find
>site after site dealing with color imaging  ???
>   but nary a site dealing with defining this concept  ;-(
>
>Therefore, I would suggest that LO's page first define this concept
>   then re-word this convoluted sentence to one which the layman can
> readily understand  ;-)
>

I would suggest that too!

Or, that they correct the sentence, in case the sentence is actually badly
written and that what we are talking about is actually a file with a list
of gradients. I do suspect the latter is the case, but I need confirmation
on that.


>
>Here's hoping that someone will define this concept ...
>

Thank you!


>and here's sending you, Jesper, all the best in your many
> endeavours,
>

:-D

Thank you so much, anne-ology! All the best to you too! And to the rest
that are reading this. :-)


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-11-30 13:01 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi, Jesper,
>
> in LO Pootle 135 translation teams are stated. If we take out about 20
> teams with really scarce tranlations, that means 115 teams.
>
> 5 changed strings in English UI x 115 = 575 changed strings in
> localization po files to re-translate
> 115 people being affected by this change.
>
>
Very good with that type of facts. Thank you. I wonder how many changed or
new strings there were for instance from 4.3 to 4.4, for comparison?
Relative numbers are always better, to put things into perspective. My
guess, as I do not have the numbers and do not know how to find them, is
perhaps 500 changes? Given that guess, that would be 5 changes (well,
actually 12, as the 5 were only "don't") compared to 500 changes, or around
2 % of the total work.

But how come we would have to retranslate? Is there really no technical way
to make a change in the English string that is known to be purely a
correction to the English string with no effect on the translation? That
seems odd to me – but of course I accept that not everything is the way we
wish and that everything takes work to make. It just seems somewhat viable
to find a solution to avoid disturbing 115 people whenever a typo is found
in the English strings. It must have happened several times before.


> I am not aggressive and do not fight,
>

Well, I disagree on that. You said: "a fork of LibreOffice would be viable,
named PureOffice". I might have misunderstood, but I took that as sarcasm,
and I see sarcasm (as opposed to irony) as aggression or hurtful emotional
violence, in an attempt to redicule the other party.

It is very possible to state one's opinions without resorting to that.


> just state my views, which is the corner stone of democracy and
> open-source mantra, I guess.
>

I absolutely agree! I have never said and never believed that one's views
should not be stated – on the contrary!

What I was talking about is the way they are stated. I believe they should
be stated simply as views, but without putting other people down because
they have differing views (as politicians so often do, which is why we are
all tired of them).

It is never necessary to put other people down because of their views. Just
state your own view without putting other views down. That is what I am
saying.


> And it is my deep conviction that sarcasm should not be banned,
>

Well, we disagree on that. As I said, I see it as a form of emotional
violence (as opposed to irony), and I really don't like that. I believe it
is counter-productive and harmful. Maybe it shouldn't be directly banned,
but I do believe it should be very minimized when speaking in a large forum
like this. Just like other offensive ways of speaking are not welcome (like
"f... you, you little s...!" :-)).


> it is not illegal
>

I never said it was illegal, and I know of no countries where it is.


> and it sometimes does put problems into perspective in a very direct and
> fast way - so it can be quite useful.
>

Oh definitely, yes, and the same can be said about other types of violence
(as I still believe it is): Definitely useful and powerful for the one
using it, but also definitely hurtful for the victim. And I do not find
personal usefulness with disregard to the victim to be a sufficient reason
to actually use it. I do believe in staying with rationality and respect. I
simply don't believe in violence, neither physical nor emotional (except
perhaps for extreme and very rare cases for immediate defence against
aggression).

But, as I said, I believe very much in stating one's opinions and that all
opinions are welcome. But respecting other's opinions without putting them
down is an integral part of that, and sarcasm and other forms of emotional
violence do have the effect of suppressing other people's views, as they
become afraid of stating their opinion if it can result in emotional
violence against them. That is exactly what is used by the leaders of
oppressive political systems: They use physical and emotional violence to
suppress people from expressing their views. For those leaders, it is very
efficient, as you said, but for democracy and openness I really cannot see
how it is helpful.

Or did you mean that sarcasm is good both for the one using it and for the
target? That the target will also find it is a good and constructive way of
communicating? Do you think the use of sarcasm increases or lowers the
aggression or amount of stress in the target?


>
> Lp, m.
>
>
Best regards,
Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Jesper Hertel]

Please, guys, those of you who want to fight, could you please step outside
and do that, so the rest of us can work?

Just because you do not like an idea or are afraid of its consequences
there is no reason to shoot it down with sarcasm or other violent methods.
That is never helpful.

If you have fears, which I see you all have, and for very good reasons,
simply state the fears. Then we can talk about them in a rational manner
and try to find a good, balanced and viable solution. Don't let the fears
turn into aggression.

And if you can, supply exact numbers and sources to help show how big a
potential problem it is.

Best regards,
Jesper


2014-11-30 10:40 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> For those purposes a fork of LibreOffice would be viable, named PureOffice.
> But there would probably be no 100 % localizations provided for it.
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 2014-11-30 8:30 GMT+01:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos :
>
> > 2014-11-29 23:38 GMT-06:00 Yury Tarasievich said:
> > > Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact
> > that
> > > there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all those
> > "fancy"
> > > glyphs.
> >
> > Wrong.
> >
> > OS X and Linux distros include punctuation (which is not “fancy” at
> > all) out-of-the-box in most keyboard layouts—the user does not have to
> > do anything weird to get these working. The only OS missing the fun in
> > Windows, but bah.
> >
> > > Program UI isn't a typography showcase.
> >
> > Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office
> > suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it
> > didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a
> > better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things,
> > I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement
> > typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core
> > applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was
> > only a matter of time.
> >
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] "If you want to see the image before you insert it, select Preview."

[Jesper Hertel]

2014-11-29 22:21 GMT+02:00 Mihkel Tõnnov :
>
>
> > 2014-11-29 22:02 GMT+02:00 Jesper Hertel :
> >
> >> ...
> >> But I can find no Preview check box when I try to select Insert - Image
> in
> >> the Danish LibreOffice Draw 4.4 beta 1 in Windows 7 SP1 64 bit. I see
> the
> >> Link check box, but not any Preview check box.
> >
> > Hej Jesper,
> >
> > I think you have to enable LibreOffice dialogs (Tools - Options -
> > LibreOffice - General) to see that checkbox.
>

Ahh! You are absolutely right. I didn't know about that setting. Thank you.

I wonder if that information is also mentioned in the Help file close to
that string? Otherwise other users could be confused as well.

I tried looking for the place in the built in help for beta 1, but I failed
to find it.


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Jesper Hertel]

Here is a request for a small adjustment in five English strings.

Almost all places in LibreOffice, straight apostrophes (', ASCII code 39
decimal) are used in "n't" endings like "don't" in the English strings. It
is used 209 places in version 4.4.

But there are five places where the character ’ (windows code page 1252
code 146 decimal) is used instead:
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/translate/#search=n%E2%80%99t&sfields=source&soptions=exact&unit=33503447

In the font used by the LibreOffice user interface in Windows, this looks a
bit odd.

It is in the following places (wether the single quotes go through this
mail system or are changed into the correct apostrophes, I don't know. But
the search above will show all five places in any case):

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo42_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=64568098:
Don’t _split table over pages

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo43_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=73203635:
Don’t _split table over pages

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/sfx2/uiconfig/ui.po#unit=79248608:
Your changes will be lost if you don’t save them.

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/sfx2/uiconfig/ui.po#unit=79248582:
_Don’t Save

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui.po#unit=33503447:
Don’t _split table over pages


Yes, this is a small thing, but nevertheless I think it should be changed
for the overall polished impression of LibreOffice.

Especially because one of the strings is very often shown to the user,
namely the "_Don’t Save".


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] "If you want to see the image before you insert it, select Preview."

[Jesper Hertel]

This string

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/sdraw/guide.po#unit=79107655

says

"Locate the image you want to insert. Select the Link check
box to insert only a link to the image. If you want to see the image before
you insert it, select Preview."

But I can find no Preview check box when I try to select Insert - Image in
the Danish LibreOffice Draw 4.4 beta 1 in Windows 7 SP1 64 bit. I see the
Link check box, but not any Preview check box.


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] Choose Insert - Media - Image.

[Jesper Hertel]

In

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/sdraw/guide.po#unit=79107657

there is a string

Choose Insert - Media - Image.

But in the menus in Draw, it seems to be just Insert - Image; I cannot find
"Image" in the submenu of "Media". I checked it in 4.4 beta 1.

So I guess the string should be

Choose Insert - Image.

Can a developer confirm?


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] I have updated the "Variables and symbols in the UI files" part of the "UI and Help files Content Guide"

[Jesper Hertel]

Thank you for the clarification, Andras!

While it may be hard to make rules for these things in LibreOffice, I
believe we as translators do need some rules (I know that I do). So that is
why I am trying to improve the existing rules, even though it may be a hard
task. Also, being a new translator, I probably have a fresh look at things,
which I would like to use to improve the existing internal documentation if
possible.

Jesper

2014-11-29 6:39 GMT+01:00 Andras Timar :

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Jesper Hertel 
> wrote:
> > On the other hand, there are variables like
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > etc.
> >
> > that really should not be translated.
> >
> > This search reveals a few of them:
> >
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/#search=%3CF&sfields=source&soptions=exact&unit=28753831
> >
> > So maybe the wiki should have said:
> >
> > • **, where X is a word in uppercase letters, is *normally* a variable
> > which should not be translated. Some examples are , ,
> >  and .
> > • ** is NOT a variable, though, and you should translate it!
> >
> > But let us get some input from people with knowledge on the subject. :-)
> >
>
> It is hard to give rules when it comes to LibreOffice, which uses a
> mix of technologies.  in backgroundpage.ui is a placeholder,
> it will be replaced by the actual filename. It does not matter what
> you write there (translated or not), it will be replaced. So it would
> be better to make  non-translatable in the source (I've just
> done it), and do not confuse translators with exceptions.
>
> Regards,
> Andras
>

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[libreoffice-l10n] "save and load a list of gradient files"?

[Jesper Hertel]

This English string looks weird:

"You can define your own gradients and modify existing gradients, as well
as save and load a list of gradient files." (
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/sdraw/guide.po#unit=28581530
)

"[S]ave and load a list of gradient files"? Save and load a list of files?

Shouldn't that be "save and load files with lists of gradients" or
something similar?


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] I have updated the "Variables and symbols in the UI files" part of the "UI and Help files Content Guide"

[Jesper Hertel]

On the other hand, there are variables like







etc.

that really should not be translated.

This search reveals a few of them:
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/#search=%3CF&sfields=source&soptions=exact&unit=28753831

So maybe the wiki should have said:

• **, where X is a word in uppercase letters, is *normally* a variable
which should not be translated. Some examples are , ,
 and .
• ** is NOT a variable, though, and you should translate it!

But let us get some input from people with knowledge on the subject. :-)

Jesper


2014-11-29 1:53 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :

> Hi Mihkel and everybody else,
>
> I have not changed anything in that sentence, and I actually wondered
> something similar when I saw it.
>
> It is only mentioned once in the entire UI for 4.4, in this complete
> string:
>
> 
>
> Here is the search:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/#search=%3CFILE&sfields=source&soptions=exact
>
> In Norwegian Bokmål and German it has been translated. In Swedish, French
> and Danish it has not been translated.
>
> It does not make much sense to put the string  up on Pootle for
> translation, if it should not be translated, so that speaks for that it
> should actually be translated – contrary to the instructions on
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#Variables_and_symbols_in_the_UI_files
> .
>
> Could someone knowledgeable on the subject tell us whether it should be
> translated or not?
>
> Jesper
>
> 2014-11-28 9:48 GMT+01:00 Mihkel Tõnnov :
>
>> Hi Jesper, *,
>>
>> Is  really a variable that will be replaced with something?
>> IIRC it's shown to user literally, and thus should be translated...
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mihkel
>> Estonian team
>>
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] I have updated the "Variables and symbols in the UI files" part of the "UI and Help files Content Guide"

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi Mihkel and everybody else,

I have not changed anything in that sentence, and I actually wondered
something similar when I saw it.

It is only mentioned once in the entire UI for 4.4, in this complete string:



Here is the search:
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/#search=%3CFILE&sfields=source&soptions=exact

In Norwegian Bokmål and German it has been translated. In Swedish, French
and Danish it has not been translated.

It does not make much sense to put the string  up on Pootle for
translation, if it should not be translated, so that speaks for that it
should actually be translated – contrary to the instructions on
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#Variables_and_symbols_in_the_UI_files
.

Could someone knowledgeable on the subject tell us whether it should be
translated or not?

Jesper

2014-11-28 9:48 GMT+01:00 Mihkel Tõnnov :

> Hi Jesper, *,
>
> Is  really a variable that will be replaced with something?
> IIRC it's shown to user literally, and thus should be translated...
>
> Best regards,
> Mihkel
> Estonian team
>

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[libreoffice-l10n] I have updated the "Variables and symbols in the UI files" part of the "UI and Help files Content Guide"

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi everybody,

I have updated the small "Variables and symbols in the UI files" section of
the "UI and Help files Content Guide" a little according to my current
understanding. I hope to expand it further as I learn more.

Anybody with more experience and knowledge than me about this subject are
welcome to read the section and confirm that what is written there is in
fact true. And if you have additions or corrections, please tell me, then I
will add or correct them.

The link is
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#Variables_and_symbols_in_the_UI_files,
and it is only the small section "Variables and symbols in the UI files"
that I have edited, not the rest of the document.


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Action [Time]: [1]. [2]

[Jesper Hertel]

And the same question with this string:

[ProductName]

(
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/instsetoo_native/inc_openoffice/windows/msi_languages.po#unit=28722426
)

Except that this string has not been translated in any of the six languages
that I can read (but why would it then be up for translation on Pootle if
it should not be translated?).


Jesper

2014-11-28 0:05 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :

> Should "Time" be translated in the following string?
>
> Action [Time]: [1]. [2]
>
> (
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/instsetoo_native/inc_openoffice/windows/msi_languages.po#unit=2873
> )
>
> As often before, there are differing opinions on it in the different
> languages. Some have translated it, some have not.
>
> I could not find information about it in
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide
>
>
> Jesper
>

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[libreoffice-l10n] Action [Time]: [1]. [2]

[Jesper Hertel]

Should "Time" be translated in the following string?

Action [Time]: [1]. [2]

(
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_ui/translate/instsetoo_native/inc_openoffice/windows/msi_languages.po#unit=2873
)

As often before, there are differing opinions on it in the different
languages. Some have translated it, some have not.

I could not find information about it in
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide


Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Should value of "name" attribute in XML element be translated?

[Jesper Hertel]

Well, very good to know that the name attribute is completely unused. :-)

Thank you for clarifying this, Andras!

As I could see that the guide hadn't been changed yet, I updated it. Now it
reads:

"* name is a completely unused attribute. Localizing it will have no effect
whatsoever."

(
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#.3Clink.3E.3C.2Flink.3E
)

Jesper

2014-11-26 22:17 GMT+01:00 Andras Timar :

> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Martin Srebotnjak 
> wrote:
> > While it is not used maybe it was intended as a tooltip text for html
> links
> > or titles (in help) or something like that? Maybe that could even be
> > implemented with not too much of an effort.
>
>
> It would be possible. However, 99% of the name attributes are
> identical to link text. They do not add extra information.
>
> Cheers,
> Andras
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Some English filetype names in Save/Save As dialogs

[Jesper Hertel]

I have added my previous confirmation email as a comment in the bug now.

Jesper

2014-11-27 19:56 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :

> I can confirm this bug is present in LibreOfficeDev 4.4 beta 1 with Danish
> localization.
>
> In Danish, some of the strings mentioned are translated in Pootle (like
> "Unified Office Format text"), and some are not (like "Rich Text").
>
> Those strings that *are* translated in Pootle, like "Unified Office Format
> text" (filter/source/config/fragments/filters.po string 28719989), are in
> fact in their English version in the file type box and not in its Danish
> translation. Other file types are in their translated versions as they
> should be.
>
> So, to the extent that it is possible for me to confirm using the Danish
> translation, I can fully confirm this bug is present in 4.4 beta 1.
>
> In other words, there is nothing in the Danish translation case that
> contradicts this bug report for LibreOfficeDev 4.4 beta 1.
>
> Jesper
>
>
>
> 2014-11-27 12:01 GMT+01:00 Sérgio Marques :
>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> I´m not using 4.4 but I can confirm this on 4.3
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> 2014-11-27 9:49 GMT+00:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > can someone please confirm:
>> > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86772
>> >
>> > Thanks, m.
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Some English filetype names in Save/Save As dialogs

[Jesper Hertel]

I can confirm this bug is present in LibreOfficeDev 4.4 beta 1 with Danish
localization.

In Danish, some of the strings mentioned are translated in Pootle (like
"Unified Office Format text"), and some are not (like "Rich Text").

Those strings that *are* translated in Pootle, like "Unified Office Format
text" (filter/source/config/fragments/filters.po string 28719989), are in
fact in their English version in the file type box and not in its Danish
translation. Other file types are in their translated versions as they
should be.

So, to the extent that it is possible for me to confirm using the Danish
translation, I can fully confirm this bug is present in 4.4 beta 1.

In other words, there is nothing in the Danish translation case that
contradicts this bug report for LibreOfficeDev 4.4 beta 1.

Jesper



2014-11-27 12:01 GMT+01:00 Sérgio Marques :

> Hi Martin,
>
> I´m not using 4.4 but I can confirm this on 4.3
>
> Regards
>
> 2014-11-27 9:49 GMT+00:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > can someone please confirm:
> > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86772
> >
> > Thanks, m.
> >
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Should value of "name" attribute in XML element be translated?

[Jesper Hertel]

Thanks, Andras!

So how come the attribute is there in 3405 places (on different elements,
though) if it is not used at all?

And how come the guide, which I am now aware of thanks to Sophie, says:

 "*name* is the displayed name of the file content. It has to be localized".

in the section about  elements (
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide#.3Clink.3E.3C.2Flink.3E
)?

To me, that seems to contradict what you said – or did I misunderstand
something?


Jesper


2014-11-26 7:05 GMT+01:00 Andras Timar :

> Hi Jesper,
>
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:43 AM, Jesper Hertel 
> wrote:
> > In the string
> >
> >
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#unit=28588429
> >
> > which has this value in English:
> >
> >  > name="Transparency">Transparency,
> >
> > should the value of the name attribute ("Transparency") be translated?
> >
> >
> > I can see that it has been translated in some languages, and not in
> others.
> >
>
> The name attribute is not used in generated help. It does not matter,
> whether you translate is..
>
> Best regards,
> Andras
>

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Re: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Should value of "name" attribute in XML element be translated?

[Jesper Hertel]

Thank you, Sophie!

2014-11-26 9:50 GMT+01:00 Sophie :

> Hi all
> Should have gone to the list too
> Sophie
>
>
>  Message transféré 
> Sujet : Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Should value of "name" attribute in
>  XML element be translated?
> Date : Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:48:22 +0100
> De : Sophie 
> Pour : Jesper Hertel 
>
> Hi Jesper,
> Le 26/11/2014 02:01, Jesper Hertel a écrit :
> > Oh, there are actually *3405 *places with a *name="..."* attribute in the
> > LibreOffice 4.4 Help:
> >
> >
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#search=name%3D%22&sfields=source&soptions=exact
> >
> > So it would be nice to know whether they should be translated or not. :-)
> >
> >
> > Jesper
> >
> > 2014-11-26 1:43 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :
> >
> >> In the string
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#unit=28588429
> >>
> >> which has this value in English:
> >>
> >>  >> name="Transparency">Transparency,
> >>
> >> should the value of the name attribute ("Transparency") be translated?
> >>
> >>
> >> I can see that it has been translated in some languages, and not in
> others.
>
> There is a guide available here:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UI_and_Help_files_Content_Guide
>
> Kind regards
> Sophie
>
> --
> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
> Tel:+33683901545
> Co-founder - Release coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
>
>
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Re: Fwd: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Error in English string?

[Jesper Hertel]

Ah, interesting! Thank you all for your information.

I can observe that if I select a *Chart object* in Writer (4.4.0.0 alpha2)
and choose File | Save As…, the only suggested file type is ODF Chart
(*.odc). (This could very well confuse average users, as they probably
expect to be always able to save their Writer document as a Writer document
and not a Chart document. They are probably not aware that the difference
is that they just happened to select a Chart object before saving. I would
suggest presenting a dialog box to sort out this situation first, asking
the user if she wants to save the Chart object alone or the whole Writer
document.)

In Windows, when I then save the Chart object, it results in a *.odc file
(a *Chart document*, I assume). That file is *not associated with
LibreOffice* in the file system, and Excel tries to open it when I
double-click it; Excel then reports an error and fails to open it.

When I try to open the just saved *Chart document *file in LibreOffice
(4.4.0.0 alpha2), via File | Open, I get a completely empty Chart opened in
the LibreOffice Chart application. So even LibreOffice cannot open its own
*.odc files, it seems. But maybe that is just a bug in the alpha version?

After having saved a *Chart object *as a *Chart document*, the Writer
document also gets the file name of the *Chart document*, including the
Chart document extension, which seems very odd to me. And when I add more
text to the Writer document and press Ctrl+S to save again, the Writer file
name stays the same, so the Writer document seems to be saved as a Chart
document? Or maybe just with a Chart document file extension? But how can a
Writer document suddenly be saved as a Chart document?


But, back to the actual translation: Do all those 19 strings

really only apply to *.odc *Chart* *documents *but never to *Chart objects*?
And if so, how can that be? It doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't a Chart
document just a Chart object wrapped in a file?

From the information I have been given until now, I would still say, as
originally stated, that the text of those 19 strings should read "chart
object" and not "chart document".


Jesper


2014-11-26 12:34 GMT+01:00 Olivier Hallot :

> Hi
>
> On 26/11/2014 06:49, Sophie wrote:
> > There is a chart file format .odc which is currently not in use in
> > LibreOffice but it exists in ODF, see here:
> > https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/XML_File_Formats
> > Kind regards
> > Sophie
>
> Actually you can save a chart (once inside it) as odc file.
>
> You can load the odc file and get your chart displayed in LibreOffice
> Chart.
>
> However, LibreOffice Chart is a bit clumsy at the moment. Thre is room
> for improvement.
>
> Regards
> --
> Olivier Hallot
> Comunidade LibreOffice
> http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br
>
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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Should value of "name" attribute in XML element be translated?

[Jesper Hertel]

Oh, there are actually *3405 *places with a *name="..."* attribute in the
LibreOffice 4.4 Help:

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#search=name%3D%22&sfields=source&soptions=exact

So it would be nice to know whether they should be translated or not. :-)


Jesper

2014-11-26 1:43 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :

> In the string
>
>
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#unit=28588429
>
> which has this value in English:
>
>  name="Transparency">Transparency,
>
> should the value of the name attribute ("Transparency") be translated?
>
>
> I can see that it has been translated in some languages, and not in others.
>
>
> Jesper
>

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[libreoffice-l10n] Should value of "name" attribute in XML element be translated?

[Jesper Hertel]

In the string

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#unit=28588429

which has this value in English:

Transparency,

should the value of the name attribute ("Transparency") be translated?


I can see that it has been translated in some languages, and not in others.


Jesper

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Error in English string?

[Jesper Hertel]

Okay, so there are actually *19 places *where these mysterious "chart
documents" are mentioned:

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#search=hart%20document&sfields=source&soptions=exact

(I search for exact phrase because it is faster, so I left out the c/C in
"chart" in the search).

I wonder what is right. I just never heard of "chart documents", and I
cannot find any in LibreOffice 4.4 when I look around. Under File | New… I
cannot create a new "Chart document"…?

Jesper


2014-11-26 1:09 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :

> There is an English string that I find strange in LibreOffice 4.4:
>
>
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#search=Transpar&sfields=source,target&soptions=exact&unit=28584506
>
> Kontekst:
>
> 00040502.xhp par_id3151117 143 help.text
> Kommentarer:
>
>
> CssFG
>
> The text for this string says
>
> "Choose Format - Chart Wall - Transparency tab (chart
> *documents*)"
>
> Shouldn't that be:
>
> "Choose Format - Chart Wall - Transparency tab (chart
> *objects*)"?
>
> As far as I know, there are no "chart documents" in LibreOffice, but there
> are chart objects, and the text does apply to chart objects.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Jesper
>
>

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[libreoffice-l10n] Error in English string?

[Jesper Hertel]

There is an English string that I find strange in LibreOffice 4.4:

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/libo_help/translate/#search=Transpar&sfields=source,target&soptions=exact&unit=28584506

Kontekst:

00040502.xhp par_id3151117 143 help.text
Kommentarer:


CssFG

The text for this string says

"Choose Format - Chart Wall - Transparency tab (chart
*documents*)"

Shouldn't that be:

"Choose Format - Chart Wall - Transparency tab (chart *objects*
)"?

As far as I know, there are no "chart documents" in LibreOffice, but there
are chart objects, and the text does apply to chart objects.


Best regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Strange sentence in /officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office.po

[Jesper Hertel]

I would believe you are right, and that the original word "documents"
should have been "document". It would make sense. So the meaning would be
this:

"Start Logo program with the full or selected text of the current document
or (in empty documents) with an example as source code"

But I haven't tried using Logo in LibreOffice myself.

Jesper
Den 19/11/2014 11.19 skrev "Sveinn í Felli" :

> #. Cnces
> #: Addons.xcu
> msgctxt ""
> "Addons.xcu\n"
> ".Addons.AddonUI.OfficeToolBar.LibreLogo.OfficeToolBar.m05\n"
> "Title\n"
> "value.text"
> msgid "Start Logo program (text or selected text of the documents) or an
> example (in empty documents)"
>
> Is it meaning something like this?:
>
> "Start [the] Logo program with [the full] text or selected text of the
> document (one or many?) or with an example (in empty documents)"
>
> Does anyone have a clue?
>
> Best regards,
> Sveinn í Felli
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Double spaces in front of measurement units in 4.4a1

[Jesper Hertel]

Ah, that was how it was to be understood! Got it now. :-)

2014-11-12 13:39 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Correct, Slovenian is not done in Pootle but on its own server. I am the
> Slovenian team's leader.
>
> But translations are entered in git so the location of translation
> activity is irrelevant for this bug report. I only ask members of other
> l10n teams too look at their 4.4a1 language version if they see the same
> problem.
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 2014-11-12 13:36 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel :
>
>> I wanted to check it in Pootle, but under Slovenian there is no
>> LibreOffice at all.
>>
>> There is only:
>>
>> Impress Remote (Android)
>> <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/android/>
>> 259 
>> <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/android/translate/>02014-03-20
>> 20:31 (filmsi
>> <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/accounts/filmsi/>)Impress
>> Remote (iOS) <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/iosremote/>
>> 346 <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/iosremote/translate/>
>> 02013-12-01 22:29 (filmsi
>> <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/accounts/filmsi/>)
>> Terminology <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/terminology/>
>> 00Website <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/website/>
>> 1954 <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/website/translate/>
>> 166
>> <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sl/website/translate/#filter=incomplete>2014-07-09
>> 08:03 (filmsi
>> <https://translations.documentfoundation.org/accounts/filmsi/>)
>>
>> I am not the Slovenian translator, so I don't know if there is a special
>> arrangement with Slovenian. Maybe the .po files are being moved around
>> manually?
>>
>> Jesper
>>
>> 2014-11-12 12:17 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> maybe some other l10n team can confirm this with 4.4.0 alpha1:
>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79171
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> m.
>>>
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>>
>>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Double spaces in front of measurement units in 4.4a1

[Jesper Hertel]

I wanted to check it in Pootle, but under Slovenian there is no LibreOffice
at all.

There is only:

Impress Remote (Android)

259 
02014-03-20
20:31 (filmsi 
)Impress Remote (iOS)

346 
02013-12-01
22:29 (filmsi 
)Terminology 
00Website 
1954 166
2014-07-09
08:03 (filmsi 
)

I am not the Slovenian translator, so I don't know if there is a special
arrangement with Slovenian. Maybe the .po files are being moved around
manually?

Jesper

2014-11-12 12:17 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi,
> maybe some other l10n team can confirm this with 4.4.0 alpha1:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79171
>
> Thanks,
> m.
>
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[libreoffice-l10n] Pootle server speed

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi everybody,

Am I the only one experiencing a very slow Pootle server (
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/)? Sometimes I have to wait
minutes for a request to return, and the browser window even becomes
unresponsive in Chrome during the wait.

At first I thought that it was just Pootle that for some reason couldn't be
any faster, but then I tried working on the translation of Pootle itself,
which takes place at http://pootle.locamotion.org/. And wow, what a speed
that Pootle installation has! It felt 5 or 10 times faster, and I think in
total I was at least twice or three times as efficient in my work on that
server compared to my work on LibreOffice. Working on that server, you can
actually browse through all translations one by one (for instance using
Ctrl+,) at a speed close to editing a word processing document locally on
your computer!

Are we simply talking lack of funds for a more capable server, or is there
something else wrong with our Pootle installation or setup?

Or do we have different servers for each language so that only the Danish
server is slow? How's the setup?

I am sure our Pootle administrators are doing their very best with the
resources available, but I am just curious to hear a little more about what
is happening.

Best regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Old TM removed from Pootle

[Jesper Hertel]

>
>
> Hi,
>
>  Is there a place where I can read more about the list of projects are
>> included in the current translation memory?
>>
>
> I suppose that these scripts are used for pulling translations to TM:
> https://github.com/translate/amagama-updater
>
>
>> And is there any way to see from which project (and what version of it)
>> each suggestion comes?
>>
>>
> Unfortunately not. See the related bugs:
> https://github.com/translate/amagama/issues/2348
> https://github.com/translate/pootle/issues/2349
>
>
Thank you so much, Stanislav! Exactly what I was looking for!

Best regards,
Jesper

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Old TM removed from Pootle

[Jesper Hertel]

Very glad to hear that, Sophie! I was worried too, but not any more after
that explanation. :-)

Is there a place where I can read more about the list of projects are
included in the current translation memory?

And is there any way to see from which project (and what version of it)
each suggestion comes?

Jesper

2014-11-06 8:49 GMT+01:00 Sophie :

> Hi Tom,
> Le 05/11/2014 12:04, Tom Davies a écrit :
> > Hi :)
> > I'm a little worried about this thread.
> >
> > In one project one of the languages has a loner going his own way
> > (extremely prolifically) but apparently using a different dialect or
> > something - a bit like the difference between English (US) and English
> > (GB), i think.  The rest of the team are often overwhelmed with trying to
> > fix all the problems he/she creates.
> >
> > So if a large team requests removing the TM would it be wise to wait
> until
> > a second member of their team confirmed it?
> >
> > Maybe say 2 people vote for removing it if their team is 2 or more
> people?
> > Maybe 3 need to confirm it if the team is over 50 people?
>
> Tom, I know that you don't do l10n, so if you asked me to remove a TM, I
> would ask for the confirmation of the team lead ;) So don't worry, those
> who work with a large team will discuss together and will come back to
> me later, those who are alone know what they prefer.
>
> Cheers
> Sophie
>
> --
> Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org
> Tel:+33683901545
> Co-founder - Release coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Old TM removed from Pootle

[Jesper Hertel]

I definitely second what Tom said. Good thinking, Tom!
Den 06/11/2014 01.09 skrev "Tom Davies" :

> Hi :)
> I'm a little worried about this thread.
>
> In one project one of the languages has a loner going his own way
> (extremely prolifically) but apparently using a different dialect or
> something - a bit like the difference between English (US) and English
> (GB), i think.  The rest of the team are often overwhelmed with trying to
> fix all the problems he/she creates.
>
> So if a large team requests removing the TM would it be wise to wait until
> a second member of their team confirmed it?
>
> Maybe say 2 people vote for removing it if their team is 2 or more people?
> Maybe 3 need to confirm it if the team is over 50 people?
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> On 5 November 2014 10:47, Anton Meixome  wrote:
>
> > Remove the old TM from
> >
> > gl
> >
> > 2014-11-05 11:04 GMT+01:00 Christian Kühl :
> > > Hi Sophie!
> > >
> > > Am 05.11.2014 um 10:17 schrieb Sophie:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So for those who would like to see their old TM removed from Pootle,
> > >> please answer this message with your language code in it :) Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > > German (de) is up to date with translation so there is no need to keep
> > > old translation in Pootle for 4.1 and 4.2 any longer.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Christian.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > deleted
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Antón Méixome - Galician Native Lang Coordination
> > Galician community LibO & AOO
> >
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Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: What are the strings in Curly brackets {...}?

[Jesper Hertel]

Oh, I forgot to send to the list…

-- Forwarded message --
From: Jesper Hertel 
Date: 2014-11-04 0:23 GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: What are the strings in Curly brackets
{...}?
To: khagaroth 




2014-11-03 21:15 GMT+01:00 khagaroth :

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Jesper Hertel 
> wrote:
> >
> > I think what Safa meant was whether the curly brackets have any technical
> > meaning that we should be aware of. That is, whether they are treated in
> a
> > special way by the system.
> >
> > And I believe that was a very good question. I am still looking forward
> to
> > someone giving a clear and full answer to it.
> >  Den 01/11/2014 15.16 skrev "anne-ology" :
> >
>
>  The full answer is:
> …
>


> > >
> > > They mark the part of the string which can be omitted if there is no
> > > [parameters] value available inside them.
>
>
> Example:
>
> The file [1] is being held in use {by the following process: [2]}.
>
> Now if [2] resolves to "explorer.exe" for example, then the resulting
> string will be printed as:
>
> The file example.txt is being held in use by the following process:
> explorer.exe.
>
> But if [2] is not known and resolves to empty sting, then the resulting
> string will be:
>
> The file example.txt is being held in use.
>

Thanks for the example.

What I don't understand with that is that, in the last case, using the
original string

"The file [2][3] is being held in use {by the following process: Name: [4], ID:
[5], Window Title: [6]}. Close that application and retry."

in the case of no values of [4], [5] or [6], the resulting displayed string
will be

"The file  is being held in use . Close that application and
retry."

where  is a specific filename.

And that seems odd to me; both the misplaced space before the "." and the
referring to an application that was never previously mentioned ("that
application"). That is why the first explanation by Urmas did not make
complete sense to me and made me doubt if it was really true what Urmas
said.

But I guess there are just two bugs in the original English string?


Also, we still do not have an answer to the question whether the translator
can add more {}'s and, as an addition to that question, how they will be
presented to the user. My guess is that the { and } will not be shown in
any case, but if there is no [n] inside the {} (where n is a number), will
the text within {} then be shown or not? There is no logical answer to
this, so the answer has to come from someone who knows.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: What are the strings in Curly brackets {...}?

[Jesper Hertel]

I think what Safa meant was whether the curly brackets have any technical
meaning that we should be aware of. That is, whether they are treated in a
special way by the system.

And I believe that was a very good question. I am still looking forward to
someone giving a clear and full answer to it.
 Den 01/11/2014 15.16 skrev "anne-ology" :

>well, the meaning can be deduced without what's within the brackets
> ...
> yet the bracketed information is there to add to the data.
>
>The same could be said for footnotes  ;-)
>
>BTW - I was an English major & have written & edited many an
> article  ;-)
>
>
>
> From: Urmas 
> Date: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 4:49 AM
> Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: What are the strings in Curly brackets
> {...}?
> To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org
>
>
> "Safa Alfulaij":
>
>  What are exactly the {} brackets?
> >
>
> They mark the part of the string which can be omitted if there is no
> [parameters] value available inside them.
>
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[libreoffice-l10n] Should strings in square brackets […] be translated?

[Jesper Hertel]

Hi everybody,

I am completely new to translating LibreOffice. Please be gentle with me.
:-)

I have one question: Should strings in square brackets, like "[Time]" in
"Action [Time]: [1]. [2]" be translated or not?

I can see that it is quite different from language to language if they are
translated or not. In German, for instance, it is translated, but in both
variants of Norwegian it is not.

Does anybody know?

I failed to find any style guide or general information about translating
LibreOffice that includes this information. You are most welcome to point
me to such a document if it exists.

Jesper

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