Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Quality in l10n
Dnia 2013-12-02, o godz. 09:39:49 Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org napisał(a): Although the origin of the english strings are from the developers, and they are focused in producing code and fixing bugs more than writing beautiful english, it may be necessary that we - the community and in a continuous process - start reviewing the linguistics in english. Three months ago I have asked similar question here. Precisely: what to do with English string that could be improved[0]? I got few other suggestions on how to improve that string, but nothing was done. Also, Polish translation is periodically changed without our knowledge and consent. Last time I remember someone has superseded all Liczba with Ilość (first one is for countable, second for uncountable; it's like changing many to much in English). There were some releases that embarrass Polish translation team before we have learned about this change. Why do I say that? Because these are the reasons that makes me not believe in success of this initiative. Translating LibreOffice was ungrateful in the past and I think that this time it will not only be enormous task, but also no one will say thank you and in few months someone will carelessly waste all that has been accomplished. I don't mean to discourage anyone from helping, but I do know that there are people here that feel the same way. Nevertheless, I wish you best luck and I would love to be proved wrong. [0] http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-l10n-quot-Selection-from-quot-in-Pivot-table-propose-of-changing-English-string-td4072596.html -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Selection from in Pivot table - propose of changing English string
Dnia 2013-09-02, o godz. 17:57:39 Zeki Bildirici z...@ozgurlukicin.com napisał(a): You may use Pootle's comment box to notify future reviewers. I can, but will anybody guarantee that comments will survive any future changes and will be still accessible in, say, 10 years from now? If not, we would rather not introduce changes that are not word-by-word translation of English strings. Btw, Pivot table is build by a selection right? Data source or source might sound calling a database, which is another option and may confuse users. OK, registered databases are often called Data Sources, so data source may indeed ring a bell that it is about external database. Fair point. But I do not believe that the same applies to Source. After all data source and source are different things, in the same way we do not confuse Master slide and slide in Impress. We have translated it in Turkish something like 'Selected Area' instead of 'selection from'. But Selection is just fine too. Selection from is not very bad i think. I do not agree. Simple use-case: You receive spreadsheet from someone else. It does contain pivot table. For whatever reason you decide to look at pivot table properties. It mentions Selection that is, in fact, nowhere to be found in the file (selections are not stored on save, after all). Only after looking at input box content, it is clear to you that it accepts range of cells. But then you think: why the hell did they label it in a way that does not make it immediately obvious what you can put into this input box?. Moreover, selection disappears in a moment you create pivot table. So it references past, not present. Source directly relates to purpose of input box in question and should clear these issues. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Selection from in Pivot table - propose of changing English string
Hi I am occasional contributor to Polish (pl) translation of LibreOffice. Recently I stumbled upon awkwardness in our translation and was asked by our coordinator to send message to this list. If this is not most appropriate place to raise such issues, please point me at right direction. Particular label for input box in Polish is translated in ambiguous way. I could make it clear for Polish users, but in a way that cuts relationship with English string. Our coordinator says I should not, because in few years someone might review current translation and - unaware of context - change it back to literal translation from English (which is not good). So, I would like to propose change of English string. In this way Polish translation will be clearer for users and closer to upstream. I believe that English will not loose any value with this change. Where: LibreOffice Calc, main pivot table window (Data → Pivot table → Create... with at least two cells selected; skip first window), in expandable part of window (More button) . What: Label for very first input box - Selection from. Change to: Source or Data source It directly relates to purpose of input box labeled - which provides a way for user to manually enter/change range of cells that will be used to create pivot table. Please let me know what do you think of this change and what should I done in similar cases in future. (I am subscribed to the list, so no need to CC me.) -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description
On 21/07/2013 at 10:26, Krunoslav Šebetić kruno0...@gmail.com wrote: Precision doesn't mean it has to be hermetic. People how know, don't need help. Don't you find contradictory to write _help_ in hermetic language? Yes, no and no. First thing: by hermetic I mean understood by people with some preliminary knowledge about certain subject. Precise language does not have to be hermetic, agreed. But being hermetic is often the most efficient way to precisely communicate what you mean. Moreover, it is generally safe to use, because it is highly unlikely that someone without presumed knowledge will even look there. Example. When you write statistical software, you don't explain in help what median is, or how chi-square test is computed and how it could be used. You expect your users to know that. The reason is simple: someone without that knowledge wouldn't even bother to install statistical package. It is the same case with SYD function. It is fine that it's description is not understood by general audience, because general audience has no knowledge about investments. In turn, general audience has no use of this function. Any effort put into lowering entry barrier of usage of this function (e.g. by explaining what amount of depreciation is) would be wasted anyway. It all boils down to defining your target audience and purpose of help. I, for one, think that help is supposed to help you in using this particular implementation, not teach you general concept. People who do understand general concept still need help. Let's take QUARTILE function as example. If you know what quartile is, you still need help to tell you what arguments can be passed to function, in what order and what are acceptable values of them. In fact, this is a way that most of Calc help has been written. Take a look at ACOS help description. It will be useless if you don't know what trigonometric, cosine and radians are. But then, what possible use could you make of ACOS function if you don't know what trigonometric is? This is by no way elitism. There are bunch of sources that can teach you about general concept, like Wikipedia, online courses, schools, universities, bookstores and libraries. There is no need for Calc help to duplicate that effort. To sum up: - Being hermetic is fine. - Help for particular function should be understood by people who need it. We can safely assume they do have some preliminary knowledge. - If help is not understood by specialists, then there is a problem. I'm fine with anyone taking different course and making Calc help a teaching resource. But that persone should prepare for a awful lot of work. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description
On 20/07/2013 at 17:16, anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com wrote: What a great example of a convoluted expression - which keeps us, the laymen, from completely understanding this world of electronics ;-) Actually it has nothing to do with electronics; rather exchange and market. Personally, I favor precise and hermetic language. People who need certain information will understand; people who don't, they don't care. how about changing 'Compute the amount of depreciation at a given period of time using the Sum-of-the-Years'-Digits method.' to read, To compute depreciation, use the Sum-of-the-Years'-Digits method. No, because it changes meaning of words. Sum-of-the-Years'-Digits method is established algorithm in investment; it is used by this function internally. You can't tell people to use this method, because you will be telling them to look elsewhere while they are looking at exactly good place (also, why should brief function description mention any other function? There is place in help for that). -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Something strange in here??
On 12/07/2013 at 01:03, Sérgio Marques smarque...@gmail.com wrote: See first item. Mine shows WW8Num1zfalse. Please check screenshot in: http://ge.tt/9gTHHWl/v/0 Microsoft Office has manner to name automatic styles (e.g. not created by user) in this pattern. If you get some file from people working on Word, your stylist will be polluted with dozens of WW8whatevers. This is needed to keep compatibility with MSO, so nothing really to fix here (or worry about). -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
