Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
Hello Alexandro, Le Sun, 14 Nov 2010 21:54:05 -0600, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org a écrit : On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:21:04 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote (14-11-10 00:32) On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first .. Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55) There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting where we introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper conference would be can you pls show me the letter? Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing meeting recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording. http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011 Thanks for the link. Practical idea to have people working on Spanish LO, OOo and OOo4kids on one list. This will have advantages for localization. For marketing, I am not sure how that works. Well, that rests one technical assumption that will end up being wrong very quickly: that LibreOffice will keep up the same codebase and follow OOo. I think problems will arise as soon as our 3.4. Also, looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange that your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads OpenOffice.org Español .. Is no difference from the TDF leading (at least a the beginning) to ooodev.org the german group. But we will be changing it to oooES eventually, like many other groups we are building form the infrastructure that we had in OOo and the change is not organized on a big Checklist that we can just modify in one process. However the way it works is similar to many organizations that were formed behind the native-lang originally. No, and again you're assuming two things: 1) that we work with a similar structure as OOo does 2) that OOoES is like the German Association. It's not, first because the German association only acts as the interim structure for the foundation and not at all as a regional group; second because you pretend OOoES is representative of the Spanish community of contributors, which it isn't. Hence my note on the ES TDF wiki page: it's all right to point to OOoES, but please point to the spanish TDF lists and do not convey the message that you're handling the work for us: you're not representing us in any way. A thing that is not clear to me, is how to deal with the situation that there are many Spanish speaking countries, where people must be able to find themselves encouraged and supported. Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, I remember quite some situations where you asked funding to fly from Mexico to wherever to do a presentation. How many countries are already involved and what are their ideas? The group is a regional group, not a country specific group. The members are from different countries and very seldom do they repeat countries. Yes I did flying the most as the lead of the Spanish group. But minor flights were also funded by our budget for other members to do inner traveling in their countries. Some ideas worked better for us than others, we held weekly conf calls and have been able to work together quite well. So we sync our presentations for campaigns like FLISOL which is the latin american installfests, syncronizing the message. There still some countries in the region that has no contributers specially the smaller countries and others that are very active. The idea is to be able to 'push' the efforts to this countries. There are some examples from the past years, mostly in the certification project, where I found your way of communicating not supportive for sharing and growing involvement, to say it brief. To me that is of great concern in every situation and especially our current one, where we start to build connections and processes. I also found my share of lack of communication from the processes that were stablish by the OOo team. There was a lot of unwritten and undocumented process due to discovery came to work out in the end. The process was also slow and sometimes uncertain (we weren't sure if things were done, or we still miss things to do). So though I can see advantages for l10n and users (as Roman clearly explained) I am not yet convinced that the proposed situation is what we really want for a strong The Document Foundation and LibreOffice. Therefore I write my concerns, so that you may take the opportunity to explain or take additional action. Well I will suggest to take this the other way around. Starting from scratch usually takes time to start getting to known what to do. So most of the things still need to be invented, discovered. Lists are usually empty and slowly growing. Bringing a group with experience might already have a set of processes and organization that
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:47:16 -0600, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hello Alexandro, Hi Charles, Le Sun, 14 Nov 2010 21:54:05 -0600, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org a écrit : On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:21:04 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote (14-11-10 00:32) On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first .. Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55) There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting where we introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper conference would be can you pls show me the letter? Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing meeting recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording. http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011 Thanks for the link. Practical idea to have people working on Spanish LO, OOo and OOo4kids on one list. This will have advantages for localization. For marketing, I am not sure how that works. Well, that rests one technical assumption that will end up being wrong very quickly: that LibreOffice will keep up the same codebase and follow OOo. I think problems will arise as soon as our 3.4. You are right, but that is neither here or there since we are doing testing both products. Which means that if there are differences they would be easier to detect than if it's just being tested on one product. For example, LibO currently is based of the experimental branch as opposed to the unstable branch of the OOo which breaks on the jvmaccess library and the URE, this is the cause of the problem with the ure 3.2.1 on a system with a 3.3 which is many users found out when they tried to run LibO on a machine with OOo. http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=releasesmsgNo=16351 Also, looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange that your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads OpenOffice.org Español .. Is no difference from the TDF leading (at least a the beginning) to ooodev.org the german group. But we will be changing it to oooES eventually, like many other groups we are building form the infrastructure that we had in OOo and the change is not organized on a big Checklist that we can just modify in one process. However the way it works is similar to many organizations that were formed behind the native-lang originally. No, and again you're assuming two things: 1) that we work with a similar structure as OOo does AFAIK you work very similar, both work with donations, and both work with paypal. Both had also OpenOffice.org name on their bank account and initially on their paypal name. Cor asked looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange that your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads OpenOffice.org Español. My response is that he is right, it is strange and is a work in progress just like ooodev.org. 2) that OOoES is like the German Association. It's not, first because the German association only acts as the interim structure for the foundation and not at all as a regional group; second because you So Cor original question didnt had to do with representing anybody, but simply that the Donate button lead to a paypal page with the title OpenOffice.org Español and confused users. My reference is that it similar to what users experienced with ooodev.org at the begining of TDF, which can also be read on this user: http://www.mail-archive.com/disc...@documentfoundation.org/msg00136.html pretend OOoES is representative of the Spanish community of contributors, which it isn't. Hence my note on the ES TDF wiki page: it's all right to point to OOoES, but please point to the spanish TDF lists and do not convey the message that you're handling the work for us: you're not representing us in any way. Well I think that's the reason of the open letter, which by the way, I didn't wrote. I just sign up to it as well as other members from the group. Also this is something that is being looking forward to at the TDF list in spanish. http://www.mail-archive.com/disc...@es.libreoffice.org/msg4.html As far as contribution goes, mostly has come from oooES community, starting with the locale for PO which was submited by Santiago Bosio (also on the signee list). http://www.mail-archive.com/l10n@libreoffice.org/msg00364.html The TDF wiki http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Category:ES is also worked mainly by people on this letter. I am not sure there is a Spanish community of contributors yet on TDF, most people are just introducing themselves on the lists. You can read the archieves. Most of the emails are on the subject like Presentacion or Presentation. At the end of the day they want to contribute, but still need more information which is what I meant
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
The user is nirvale regards El sáb, 13-11-2010 a las 01:22 -0600, Alexandro Colorado escribió: On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:01:10 -0600, Alex alex.marti...@comunidad.unam.mx wrote: here again the url http://pootle.libreoffice.org appears don't be online, anyway i'm still seeking arround. but, i got the register in this one http://translations.documentfoundation.org/ the .po file in there, has some no translated parts, that file I mean Please let me know your username so I can give you commit rights. -- Alexandro Colorado OOoES A.C - http://oooes.org GPG: 68D072E6 -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:40:38 -0600, Alex alex.marti...@comunidad.unam.mx wrote: The user is nirvale Thanks. Assigned permkissions to add suggestions, this will make suggestions viewable by reviewers. regards El sáb, 13-11-2010 a las 01:22 -0600, Alexandro Colorado escribió: On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:01:10 -0600, Alex alex.marti...@comunidad.unam.mx wrote: here again the url http://pootle.libreoffice.org appears don't be online, anyway i'm still seeking arround. but, i got the register in this one http://translations.documentfoundation.org/ the .po file in there, has some no translated parts, that file I mean Please let me know your username so I can give you commit rights. -- Alexandro Colorado OOoES A.C - http://oooes.org GPG: 68D072E6 -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Alexandro Colorado -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
ok, i'm working on that thank you El mar, 16-11-2010 a las 13:06 -0600, Alexandro Colorado escribió: On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:40:38 -0600, Alex alex.marti...@comunidad.unam.mx wrote: The user is nirvale Thanks. Assigned permkissions to add suggestions, this will make suggestions viewable by reviewers. regards El sáb, 13-11-2010 a las 01:22 -0600, Alexandro Colorado escribió: On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:01:10 -0600, Alex alex.marti...@comunidad.unam.mx wrote: here again the url http://pootle.libreoffice.org appears don't be online, anyway i'm still seeking arround. but, i got the register in this one http://translations.documentfoundation.org/ the .po file in there, has some no translated parts, that file I mean Please let me know your username so I can give you commit rights. -- Alexandro Colorado OOoES A.C - http://oooes.org GPG: 68D072E6 -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Alexandro Colorado -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote (14-11-10 00:32) On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first .. Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55) There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting where we introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper conference would be can you pls show me the letter? Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing meeting recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording. http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011 Thanks for the link. Practical idea to have people working on Spanish LO, OOo and OOo4kids on one list. This will have advantages for localization. For marketing, I am not sure how that works. Also, looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange that your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads OpenOffice.org Español .. A thing that is not clear to me, is how to deal with the situation that there are many Spanish speaking countries, where people must be able to find themselves encouraged and supported. Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, I remember quite some situations where you asked funding to fly from Mexico to wherever to do a presentation. How many countries are already involved and what are their ideas? There are some examples from the past years, mostly in the certification project, where I found your way of communicating not supportive for sharing and growing involvement, to say it brief. To me that is of great concern in every situation and especially our current one, where we start to build connections and processes. So though I can see advantages for l10n and users (as Roman clearly explained) I am not yet convinced that the proposed situation is what we really want for a strong The Document Foundation and LibreOffice. Therefore I write my concerns, so that you may take the opportunity to explain or take additional action. ... SC, but the conversation seem to make sense to avoid duplication of efforts due to breach communications. Also we already present a framework of interaction with third party groups that would also benefit from the efforts we are coordinated. and explain what you mean with this? Can you pls explain this too? Thanks kind regards, Cor -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE : Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
Roman, To put it clearly, OOOES is welcome to contribute, but I don't see why you should be The spanish community. There are a lot more contributors out there who do not work with you. The spanish community is here, and not being 'held' by some organisation who pretends to be representative. Contribute, here avoid barriers and bridgrs, and please don't advertise yourself as THE spanish community. Best, Charles. Le 13 nov. 2010, 11:18 PM, Roman Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar a écrit : El 13/11/10 08:12, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: Yes. My initial reaction is that we do have a spanish list here, why would you want to go elsewh... Hi Charles. I wana talk you about oooES. I'm a coordinator, with Alexandro and Luis Vásquez. The spanish comunity is big, but no as big as all Hispanic users need. In this line of thinking, we decide to use oooES, a civil association formally constituted by our group since february 2009. The name not represent that only support OpenOffice.org. We are an association from users and by users, an association by support and localization. We aren't a fork of OpenOffice. We have 5 principles (http://www.oooes.org/principios.html) 1) oooES is an independent organization products (applications) of. 2) The materials created by oooES community are and allways be free. 3) oooES work with your own tools, for the communities management. For provide support, development, localization and promotion ALL products of. 4) oooES don't have preference by any product, and don't work for discredit of someone. 5) oooES maintain the net of professional partners that offer official services in spanish, in someone of the products. And this partners help intellectual and economically to support the own infrastructure oooES of. How you can see, we are a group that help to TDF, OOo and ooo4Kids in the same way. No preferences. No discredit. Allways in the users side. We need and want this recognition of TDF. Please you effort to understand this manner of resolve our situation. I don't know if is the better way, but is our way. If you are agree, we can be THE Hispanic community for your users. Best regards. -- ~~~ Prof. Román H. Gelbort http://www.piensalib... My english is like a little child, but not my thoghts. ~~~ -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org l10n%2bh...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are a... -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:21:04 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Hi Alexandro, Alexandro Colorado wrote (14-11-10 00:32) On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first .. Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55) There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting where we introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper conference would be can you pls show me the letter? Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing meeting recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording. http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011 Thanks for the link. Practical idea to have people working on Spanish LO, OOo and OOo4kids on one list. This will have advantages for localization. For marketing, I am not sure how that works. Also, looking from LibreOffice perspective, it is rather strange that your Donate button leads to the paypal page which reads OpenOffice.org Español .. Is no difference from the TDF leading (at least a the beginning) to ooodev.org the german group. But we will be changing it to oooES eventually, like many other groups we are building form the infrastructure that we had in OOo and the change is not organized on a big Checklist that we can just modify in one process. However the way it works is similar to many organizations that were formed behind the native-lang originally. A thing that is not clear to me, is how to deal with the situation that there are many Spanish speaking countries, where people must be able to find themselves encouraged and supported. Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, I remember quite some situations where you asked funding to fly from Mexico to wherever to do a presentation. How many countries are already involved and what are their ideas? The group is a regional group, not a country specific group. The members are from different countries and very seldom do they repeat countries. Yes I did flying the most as the lead of the Spanish group. But minor flights were also funded by our budget for other members to do inner traveling in their countries. Some ideas worked better for us than others, we held weekly conf calls and have been able to work together quite well. So we sync our presentations for campaigns like FLISOL which is the latin american installfests, syncronizing the message. There still some countries in the region that has no contributers specially the smaller countries and others that are very active. The idea is to be able to 'push' the efforts to this countries. There are some examples from the past years, mostly in the certification project, where I found your way of communicating not supportive for sharing and growing involvement, to say it brief. To me that is of great concern in every situation and especially our current one, where we start to build connections and processes. I also found my share of lack of communication from the processes that were stablish by the OOo team. There was a lot of unwritten and undocumented process due to discovery came to work out in the end. The process was also slow and sometimes uncertain (we weren't sure if things were done, or we still miss things to do). So though I can see advantages for l10n and users (as Roman clearly explained) I am not yet convinced that the proposed situation is what we really want for a strong The Document Foundation and LibreOffice. Therefore I write my concerns, so that you may take the opportunity to explain or take additional action. Well I will suggest to take this the other way around. Starting from scratch usually takes time to start getting to known what to do. So most of the things still need to be invented, discovered. Lists are usually empty and slowly growing. Bringing a group with experience might already have a set of processes and organization that could speed development. Example, l10n is done in pootle, because many people have experience from OOo and already understand the tool. If the people coming here didn't had that experience, they will probably questioned and compare pootle with other tools. Similar to what is happening on the website@ list comparing Drupal vs Silver???. Comparing those two, we can have localizators working on what they do faster than, content creators on their app. Same thing can be said with using mediawiki and maybe PhpBB or similars. The letter was signed up by a team that already have experience working on the localization of OOo for many versions, there are builders, localizators, editors, content creators and organizers/moderators. Now I am not sure what would 'strong' mean in this sense, because it can be viewed that 'outsourcing' the work to a different brand (@es.libreoffice.org vs @oooes.org) mailing list domain could make it
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
El 13/11/10 08:12, Charles-H. Schulz escribió: Yes. My initial reaction is that we do have a spanish list here, why would you want to go elsewhere? I think the Spanish speaking community of contributors is diverse enough (it encompasses several continents, with several teams) so that we can use our lists: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists There are three mailing lists there in Spanish. On the other hand I'm not sure who took the decision to point ever Spanish volunteer to OOoES. I don' t think OOoES, which by the way has the name OOo in it, represents every spanish contributor out there. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page/es Hi Charles. I wana talk you about oooES. I'm a coordinator, with Alexandro and Luis Vásquez. The spanish comunity is big, but no as big as all Hispanic users need. In this line of thinking, we decide to use oooES, a civil association formally constituted by our group since february 2009. The name not represent that only support OpenOffice.org. We are an association from users and by users, an association by support and localization. We aren't a fork of OpenOffice. We have 5 principles (http://www.oooes.org/principios.html) 1) oooES is an independent organization products (applications) of. 2) The materials created by oooES community are and allways be free. 3) oooES work with your own tools, for the communities management. For provide support, development, localization and promotion ALL products of. 4) oooES don't have preference by any product, and don't work for discredit of someone. 5) oooES maintain the net of professional partners that offer official services in spanish, in someone of the products. And this partners help intellectual and economically to support the own infrastructure oooES of. How you can see, we are a group that help to TDF, OOo and ooo4Kids in the same way. No preferences. No discredit. Allways in the users side. We need and want this recognition of TDF. Please you effort to understand this manner of resolve our situation. I don't know if is the better way, but is our way. If you are agree, we can be THE Hispanic community for your users. Best regards. -- ~~~ Prof. Román H. Gelbort http://www.piensalibre.com.ar My english is like a little child, but not my thoghts. ~~~ -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:21:45 -0600, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Hi Alexandro, I think I have some thoughts on this conversation, but first .. Alexandro Colorado wrote (13-11-10 23:55) There was a conversation about this on the Marketing meeting where we introduce the letter to TDF. Althought a more proper conference would be can you pls show me the letter? Sure althought I recomend to hear the exchange on the marketing meeting recording. I think it was around 1hr in the recording. http://oooes.org/carta-tdf.html http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#11-Nov-2011 SC, but the conversation seem to make sense to avoid duplication of efforts due to breach communications. Also we already present a framework of interaction with third party groups that would also benefit from the efforts we are coordinated. and explain what you mean with this? Thanks, Cor -- Alexandro Colorado -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] spanish contribution - LibreOffice 3.3
hello. where is the spanish admin, here is the translated po file. i don't know what to do. -- E-mail to l10n+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/l10n/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
