Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

Hi Sveinn,

2011/1/21 Sveinn í Felli :
>
> I think for now it would be sufficient to update
> ,
> there are other revisions aswell, but this is the most important.
>
> If there's a way to do it so late in the process, great. If not, so be it.

I'll take care of this.

Best regards,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Sveinn í Felli]

Hi, better late than never:

Þann fim 13.jan 2011 19:14, skrifaði Andras Timar:

2011/1/13 leif:

Will there be another load from Ooo Pootle?

Please see http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/msg01363.html

We have quite a lot of new changes since the last load.


Cheers,
Leif Lodahl



Hi Leif,

I think it's a misunderstanding. There has never been a load from OOo
Pootle. Translation came from OOo source code and from individual
translators via mail or via TDF Pootle.

Please send me a link to your latest translation (or send me in
private mail) and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks,
Andras



Is it too late to have some updates coming over from 
OOo-pootle ?


One term has been quite difficult to adapt to our language 
(is), and of course it lives both in upstream OOo and in the 
LibreOffice add-on. We just found a way to handle this term 
acceptably and have edited respective files accordingly on 
both pootle servers.


I think for now it would be sufficient to update 
, 
there are other revisions aswell, but this is the most 
important.


If there's a way to do it so late in the process, great. If 
not, so be it.


Thanks a lot,
Sveinn í Felli


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

2011.01.17. 17:41 keltezéssel, Martin Srebotnjak írta:
> 2011/1/17 Rimas Kudelis 
> 
>> I believe I suggested another possibility (without much reaction though):
>> make the helppacks available from the installer UI, and download them at
>> install time if needed. I'm not sure if we're using NSIS or not, but at
>> least NSIS supports downloading (see http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Features
>> ).
>>
>>
> And I think I did support your idea (or maybe just in my head, so I am
> voicing my support now).
> 
> AbiWord does this with dictionaries already - it just downloads selected
> dictionaries within the installation process.
> 
> There should, however, be a way to have the helppack already downloaded in
> the same directory as the installation files - or to browse to that file on
> the disk in one of the installation dialogs - if the computer is not
> connected to Internet and/or the installation is a network/admin one.
> 
IMHO it's a good idea, someone (you maybe?) has to implement it. We
could have a "netinstall" and a "full install".

Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Martin Srebotnjak]

2011/1/17 Rimas Kudelis 

> I believe I suggested another possibility (without much reaction though):
> make the helppacks available from the installer UI, and download them at
> install time if needed. I'm not sure if we're using NSIS or not, but at
> least NSIS supports downloading (see http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Features
> ).
>
>
And I think I did support your idea (or maybe just in my head, so I am
voicing my support now).

AbiWord does this with dictionaries already - it just downloads selected
dictionaries within the installation process.

There should, however, be a way to have the helppack already downloaded in
the same directory as the installation files - or to browse to that file on
the disk in one of the installation dialogs - if the computer is not
connected to Internet and/or the installation is a network/admin one.

LP, m.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2011.01.13 23:06, Martin Srebotnjak rašė:

2011/1/13 Andras Timar


I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)


Yes, I run Slovenian regional settings, of course. In that case it should
also work but it did not.


Confirming: on Windows 7 with Lithuanian regional settings and 
Lithuanian UI, the installer runs in English.



  But - are regional settings the right way to go? A
Frenchwoman living in Moscow will have Russian regional settings (because
she lives there and it is more practical for her that way), but she wants
French LO installed...


UI language is part of the regional settings I think. Being a 
frenchwoman in Moscow, I would certainly want that particular part of 
regional settings (UI language) to be French.


However, I agree that not all languages are or will be available for 
user to choose from for their Windows UI, so a language selection page 
does make sense (with a best-guess default preselected).



There are two possibilities:
- the changes for Windows for online help are rolled back and there will be
an English build with international langpacks (or international full
builds);
- the implementation goes forward until it is bug-free: installer allows UI
language selection *and* online help from a localized LO UI is localized,
i.e. Hungarian LO UI with F1 opens Hungarian contextual help in the LO
help-wiki (I cannot test this with my install, RC2 with Slovenian helppack
was reinstalled with RC3, which still uses the RC2 help, although I did not
install localized help for RC3 - how do you uninstall help? This might be a
bug as well - many things are not polished with these helppacks);

And there is even a third possibility:
- LO33 is published as English only and/as a technology preview for other
languages. This way we can test if this online help decision was right or
not and the community can vote.


I believe I suggested another possibility (without much reaction 
though): make the helppacks available from the installer UI, and 
download them at install time if needed. I'm not sure if we're using 
NSIS or not, but at least NSIS supports downloading (see 
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Features).


Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Thorsten Behrens]

Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Do you have any info - will localized online help be enabled in final 3.3 or
> does the foundation want to release such a product with no localized online
> help?
> 
Hi Martin,

sure, the plan is definitely to have localized online help for 3.3.
No worries. :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Hi, Andras,

2011/1/13 Andras Timar 

> I can remove help packs with Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
> Center. IMHO releasing LibreOffice with known bugs is better than
> postpone the release to eternity. It will never be bug-free. After 3.3
> 3.3.1 will come, with the opportunity to fix more bugs. At first sight
> I also did not like multi language installer and help packs. Now I
> feel relaxed about them. :) Let's see how the users will welcome
> LibreOffice.
>

I just tried that and could uninstall RC2 Slovenian helppack. So I ran RC3
with Slovenian GUI and pressed F1/Help button in the dialogs and got -
English wiki-help!

Another, even more serious no-go for the L10N teams, I guess. I and probably
all non-English users of LO expect the wiki-help would open in the language
of the UI.

What is a localized office suite with no localized help? (Many users will
not install the helppack not knowing that it is required, even if it is
clearly stated on the downloadpage.)  Why have localization teams devoted
their time to localizing help? I really do not get this.

Do you have any info - will localized online help be enabled in final 3.3 or
does the foundation want to release such a product with no localized online
help?

Can other L10N confirm this behavior on their language UI's? Is this
acceptable for other L10N teams and language communities?

Forgive me being so stubborn.

Lp, m.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

2011/1/13 Martin Srebotnjak :
> Andras,
>
> 2011/1/13 Andras Timar 
>
>>
>> I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
>> work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
>> to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
>> Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
>> I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)
>>
>
> Yes, I run Slovenian regional settings, of course. In that case it should
> also work but it did not. But - are regional settings the right way to go? A
> Frenchwoman living in Moscow will have Russian regional settings (because
> she lives there and it is more practical for her that way), but she wants
> French LO installed...

It's a rare corner case – of course ideally we should cover it.

>
>
>> Having a language selection window that you suggest is a good idea
>> IMHO (not for 3.3 though). I think you should file a bug and give the
>> specification there.
>>
>
> Well, here we disagree. The l10n teams (more or less knowing the
> habits/culture and representing non-English users) were wondering about the
> changed concept of online help on Windows and this multi-culti installer.
> This was a too big change to introduce with LO33, as I already wrote, it was
> not communicated with L10N teams etc. But my skepticism did not stop it. So
> it happened, but I (and probably other L10N-ers) expected that it will be
> done properly - so that builds can still be fully localized. Now we are
> stuck in the middle and we hear: there is no time to fix this for 3.3. Well,
> there was no time to introduce/design/implement/test this huge change for
> 3.3 in the first place. You can't rush a production of a car and say, we
> cannot fix this new security belt, hey, its not a biggie, don't panic...
>
> There are two possibilities:
> - the changes for Windows for online help are rolled back and there will be
> an English build with international langpacks (or international full
> builds);
> - the implementation goes forward until it is bug-free: installer allows UI
> language selection *and* online help from a localized LO UI is localized,
> i.e. Hungarian LO UI with F1 opens Hungarian contextual help in the LO
> help-wiki (I cannot test this with my install, RC2 with Slovenian helppack
> was reinstalled with RC3, which still uses the RC2 help, although I did not
> install localized help for RC3 - how do you uninstall help? This might be a
> bug as well - many things are not polished with these helppacks);

I can remove help packs with Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Center. IMHO releasing LibreOffice with known bugs is better than
postpone the release to eternity. It will never be bug-free. After 3.3
3.3.1 will come, with the opportunity to fix more bugs. At first sight
I also did not like multi language installer and help packs. Now I
feel relaxed about them. :) Let's see how the users will welcome
LibreOffice.

Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Andras,

2011/1/13 Andras Timar 

>
> I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
> work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
> to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
> Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
> I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)
>

Yes, I run Slovenian regional settings, of course. In that case it should
also work but it did not. But - are regional settings the right way to go? A
Frenchwoman living in Moscow will have Russian regional settings (because
she lives there and it is more practical for her that way), but she wants
French LO installed...


> Having a language selection window that you suggest is a good idea
> IMHO (not for 3.3 though). I think you should file a bug and give the
> specification there.
>

Well, here we disagree. The l10n teams (more or less knowing the
habits/culture and representing non-English users) were wondering about the
changed concept of online help on Windows and this multi-culti installer.
This was a too big change to introduce with LO33, as I already wrote, it was
not communicated with L10N teams etc. But my skepticism did not stop it. So
it happened, but I (and probably other L10N-ers) expected that it will be
done properly - so that builds can still be fully localized. Now we are
stuck in the middle and we hear: there is no time to fix this for 3.3. Well,
there was no time to introduce/design/implement/test this huge change for
3.3 in the first place. You can't rush a production of a car and say, we
cannot fix this new security belt, hey, its not a biggie, don't panic...

There are two possibilities:
- the changes for Windows for online help are rolled back and there will be
an English build with international langpacks (or international full
builds);
- the implementation goes forward until it is bug-free: installer allows UI
language selection *and* online help from a localized LO UI is localized,
i.e. Hungarian LO UI with F1 opens Hungarian contextual help in the LO
help-wiki (I cannot test this with my install, RC2 with Slovenian helppack
was reinstalled with RC3, which still uses the RC2 help, although I did not
install localized help for RC3 - how do you uninstall help? This might be a
bug as well - many things are not polished with these helppacks);

And there is even a third possibility:
- LO33 is published as English only and/as a technology preview for other
languages. This way we can test if this online help decision was right or
not and the community can vote.

Thanks,
m.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

2011/1/13 Martin Srebotnjak :
> Andras,
>
> 2011/1/13 Andras Timar 
>
>
>> As for the Windows installer, I don't know... is it still in English
>> for you, too? I reported it today in devs list and on irc. Tor
>> Lillqvist replied and he is trying to debug it. That's all I could do.
>>
>>
> just to make it clear on my side - what I reported.
>
> I have English Windows, but use all software, if avalilable, in Slovenian. I
> installed LO 3.3RC3 today (having LO3.3RC2 installed with English and
> Slovenian UI + Slovenian Help, with Slovenian as active GUI language) and
> the process of installation ran in English. I guess the installer just asks
> the system language and does not offer the user to use some other language.
> A multi-language installer should do just that. I believe Windows do not
> exist in all the languages that OOo/LO exist or will exist, so that
> selection should be possible as manual in the first stage of installation,
> IMHO.

Hi Martin,

I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)

Having a language selection window that you suggest is a good idea
IMHO (not for 3.3 though). I think you should file a bug and give the
specification there.

For 3.3 I would be happy, if the basic functionality worked, i.e. on
localized Windows installer used the same language.

Best regards,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Andras,

2011/1/13 Andras Timar 


> As for the Windows installer, I don't know... is it still in English
> for you, too? I reported it today in devs list and on irc. Tor
> Lillqvist replied and he is trying to debug it. That's all I could do.
>
>
just to make it clear on my side - what I reported.

I have English Windows, but use all software, if avalilable, in Slovenian. I
installed LO 3.3RC3 today (having LO3.3RC2 installed with English and
Slovenian UI + Slovenian Help, with Slovenian as active GUI language) and
the process of installation ran in English. I guess the installer just asks
the system language and does not offer the user to use some other language.
A multi-language installer should do just that. I believe Windows do not
exist in all the languages that OOo/LO exist or will exist, so that
selection should be possible as manual in the first stage of installation,
IMHO.

Lp, m.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

2011/1/13 leif :
> Will there be another load from Ooo Pootle?
>
> Please see http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/msg01363.html
>
> We have quite a lot of new changes since the last load.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Leif Lodahl
>

Hi Leif,

I think it's a misunderstanding. There has never been a load from OOo
Pootle. Translation came from OOo source code and from individual
translators via mail or via TDF Pootle.

Please send me a link to your latest translation (or send me in
private mail) and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[leif]

Will there be another load from Ooo Pootle?

Please see http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/msg01363.html

We have quite a lot of new changes since the last load.


Cheers,
Leif Lodahl

Den 12-01-2011 16:29, Andras Timar skrev:
> Hi,
>
> libreoffice-3-3-0 branch was cut yesterday. I've just learned on irc
> that it will be tagged for LibreOffice 3.3 release on Monday. Commit
> rules to that branch are very strict. Only very-very safe fixes and
> translation updates are allowed.
>
> You can update your translations in Pootle by Sunday evening. I'll take
> updated translations from there and do a final check-in for LibreOffice
> 3.3 release. These are the lo-build-*.po files.
>
> I'm sorry but I cannot take excessive amounts of fixes for the main
> localize.sdf anymore (1-2 typos are still OK). At least not before the
> release of LibreOffice 3.3. It's too risky and I don't have the time to
> check everything carefully. (FYI, there were 2 errors in hr and te
> translations that broke the build on Windows, causing a big trouble.)
>
> There will be a 3.3.1 soon where corrections will be possible, and for
> the next major release I hope we'll get rid of sdf format (at least in
> the repo) and everyone can use Pootle.
>
> Thanks,
> Andras
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

2011/1/13 Olivier Hallot :
> Em 12-01-2011 13:29, Andras Timar escreveu:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> libreoffice-3-3-0 branch was cut yesterday. I've just learned on irc
>> that it will be tagged for LibreOffice 3.3 release on Monday. Commit
>> rules to that branch are very strict. Only very-very safe fixes and
>> translation updates are allowed.
>>
>
> Hi Andras
> Shall we have another cut from pootle before 3.3? Some of the fixes I sent
> this week are not yet reflected in RC3. Also I think we still need an RC4,
> especially in the installation for Windows (sigh)

Hi Olivier,

I'll take all files from pootle which are newer than the date of last
commit (last Sunday if I remember correctly) - so your fixes will be
in.

As for the Windows installer, I don't know... is it still in English
for you, too? I reported it today in devs list and on irc. Tor
Lillqvist replied and he is trying to debug it. That's all I could do.

Best regards,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Olivier Hallot]

Em 12-01-2011 13:29, Andras Timar escreveu:

Hi,

libreoffice-3-3-0 branch was cut yesterday. I've just learned on irc
that it will be tagged for LibreOffice 3.3 release on Monday. Commit
rules to that branch are very strict. Only very-very safe fixes and
translation updates are allowed.



Hi Andras
Shall we have another cut from pootle before 3.3? Some of the fixes I 
sent this week are not yet reflected in RC3. Also I think we still need 
an RC4, especially in the installation for Windows (sigh)


--
Olivier Hallot
Comitê Executivo
The Document Foundation
Voicing the enterprise needs

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Andras Timar]

2011.01.12. 16:42 keltezéssel, Mikel Pascual írta:
> In order to prevent compile errors, I guess we should review the "review"
> section in pootle (for example:
> http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/eu/libo33/review.html)
> 
> Am I right?

Yes, you right but Pootle gives many false positives, too. If you
carefully check your files, I thank you, because it means less work for
me. I posted error logs in this list a few times. Check for tags, that's
the most common source of errors.

Thanks,
Andras

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi Mikel,
On 12/01/2011 18:42, Mikel Pascual wrote:

In order to prevent compile errors, I guess we should review the "review"
section in pootle (for example:
http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/eu/libo33/review.html)

Am I right?


Yes, even if it gives sometime false positive, the positive will be 
corrected :-) or/and run gsicheck if you can. gsicheck is more exact.


Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

[Mikel Pascual]

In order to prevent compile errors, I guess we should review the "review"
section in pootle (for example:
http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/eu/libo33/review.html)

Am I right?


Regards




2011/1/12 Andras Timar 

> Hi,
>
> libreoffice-3-3-0 branch was cut yesterday. I've just learned on irc
> that it will be tagged for LibreOffice 3.3 release on Monday. Commit
> rules to that branch are very strict. Only very-very safe fixes and
> translation updates are allowed.
>
> You can update your translations in Pootle by Sunday evening. I'll take
> updated translations from there and do a final check-in for LibreOffice
> 3.3 release. These are the lo-build-*.po files.
>
> I'm sorry but I cannot take excessive amounts of fixes for the main
> localize.sdf anymore (1-2 typos are still OK). At least not before the
> release of LibreOffice 3.3. It's too risky and I don't have the time to
> check everything carefully. (FYI, there were 2 errors in hr and te
> translations that broke the build on Windows, causing a big trouble.)
>
> There will be a 3.3.1 soon where corrections will be possible, and for
> the next major release I hope we'll get rid of sdf format (at least in
> the repo) and everyone can use Pootle.
>
> Thanks,
> Andras
>
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