[lace] Practical Skills

[Angela Eldridge]

Hi
Speaking to Bridget Cook at the weekend she said that Practical Skills was 
going to be reprinted by Batsford but with a different cover.  So look out for 
it at your usual suppliers.
Who said no-one was talking I had 42 e-mails this morning!
Angela (from Autumnal Sussex)

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[lace] Re: reticent list members

[Jennifer Audsley]

Hi Spiders,

Well, I usually have very little to add to the list because I am still fairly 
new to lace, and don't have a lot of time
to make lace (yet). As lace-wise I know next-to-nothing and am capable of not 
much more, I tend to just sit back and
read all the amazing expertise you all have.

Since the traffic is quiet, I have decided to become brave and ask a couple of 
questions from my 'dumb questions that I
have been a bit too embarassed to ask' list of questions.  

Here goes. Why isn't thread manufactured today that is as fine as those 
available in the early lace-making days. I'd
have thought that with the technology available these days (fibre optics, micro 
and nanotechnology etc etc) that small
wouldn't be a problem. If they could do it in the 1700's, why not now? Also, is 
the wire used in wire lacemaking just
plain ordinary wire (such as my dh uses in electronics eg 100 micron copper 
wire) or is it something special?

Please indulge my ignorance!

Thanks,

Jen in Melbourne, Australia (where it is a beautiful, warm and sunny day).

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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[DonLynn]

My question Jen, is where can we buy 100 micron wire for Lenka's lace ideas.
Lynn Scott, Wollongong, Australia
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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[Edith Holmes]

Having spent a great deal of time trying to find fine linen thread, I'll 
pass on the reasons I was given for it no longer being available.

To get fine thread, flax has to be grown very close together, so that it 
competes for light and nutrients, and becomes long and thin rather than a 
'healthier' size (same thing happens to all plants grown without suffucient 
light).  Then this flax, after retting and various other processes has to be 
spun, which requires a skilled spinner to cope with the fineness (and 
therefor delicacy) of the thread.  When lots of this thread was needed for 
lace and I presume other things, it was commercially viable to grow and 
manufacture it.  Sadly now, so little is required that it isn't commercially 
viable.  Add this on to the shift in attitude from 'serving the public' to 
'best bottom line', and perhaps we will understand why, as there are so few 
of us working in the finest threads now, no-one is likely to start making it 
again.

Occasionally old thread is available, but without knowing how it's been 
stored and what state it's in, I'm always wary of paying a huge price for 
it.

Edith
North Nottinghamshire
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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[lace] Swedish woven hearts

[Annette Gill]

>

Thanks so much for this link - the hearts are lovely!  I was getting fed
up about the fact that a shoulder injury means I won't be able to get a
Christmas tree this year (too heavy to maneouvre into place, and I don't
much like artifical ones).  I thought I might be able to make some unusual
Christmas decorations to compensate - and these are perfect!

Straight down to Hobbycraft to get some fancy paper to make them with...

(Sorry for bringing up the H word, but they are useful for some things)

Regards,
Annette, London





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Re: [lace] Practical Skills

[Barb ETx]

Wow and that is for a paperbackThe hard cover must be platinum!! Now,
I *know* I am going to hug my pb.and it is now on my do- not- loan- out
list!!!

BarbE
There's always a lot to be thankful for if you take time to look for it.
For example I am sitting here thinking how nice it is that wrinkles don't
hurt.


  - Original Message -
  From: Maxine D
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 1:24 AM
  Subject: [lace] Practical Skills


  there is a copy of Practical Skills on Amazon at

  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486255611/qid=1100675894/sr=
12
  -1/104-3225690-3309557?v=glance&s=books

  for $89.89   Gold plated pages???  Not for me this Christmas, I'm
afraid.

  Maxine
   in N.Z., where it dried out and warmed up a bit today, so I mowed the
lawns
  and am feeling virtuous, but I would still rather make lace.


  Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as
well
  dance.

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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[Sue Clemenger]

I had also heard that some of the "varieties" (for want of a more 
accurate phrase) of truly fine linen plants went extinct around the time 
of/during WWI.
--sue, another lurking list member who just really doesn't ever have 
much to contribute

Edith Holmes wrote:
Having spent a great deal of time trying to find fine linen thread, I'll 
pass on the reasons I was given for it no longer being available.

To get fine thread, flax has to be grown very close together, so that it 
competes for light and nutrients, and becomes long and thin rather than 
a 'healthier' size (same thing happens to all plants grown without 
suffucient light).  Then this flax, after retting and various other 
processes has to be spun, which requires a skilled spinner to cope with 
the fineness (and therefor delicacy) of the thread.  When lots of this 
thread was needed for lace and I presume other things, it was 
commercially viable to grow and manufacture it.  Sadly now, so little is 
required that it isn't commercially viable.  Add this on to the shift in 
attitude from 'serving the public' to 'best bottom line', and perhaps we 
will understand why, as there are so few of us working in the finest 
threads now, no-one is likely to start making it again.

Occasionally old thread is available, but without knowing how it's been 
stored and what state it's in, I'm always wary of paying a huge price 
for it.

Edith
North Nottinghamshire
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [lace] 13th cent needlelace from China?

[Dmt11home]

In a message dated 11/16/2004 2:48:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I do  think that traders and travellers could have introduced some European 
needle  work in that period.
I was thinking about Marco Polo, et al, too. But it really hadn't occurred  
to me that the technique was traveling to China from Europe but rather the 
other  way around. 
 
One problem is that I tend to associate these diamond patterns in the  work 
more with 17th century lace. 16th century lace is usually pretty solid  
looking. In fact, I just very unscientifically went through the plates in  
Levey and 
the first time I see this diamond phenomenon is in plate 183, dated  second 
half of the 17th century. So, in this case they are doing things in China  in 
the 13th or 14th century, that Europeans are doing in the 17th. 
 
However, the use of the interior diamond patterns may be a natural  
development that happens if the area of detached buttonhole stitch is  large.
 
Devon
 
Devon

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[lace] Re: Busy lists?

[Annette Gill]

<>

Me too.  Last year, while writing a Christmas card to my neighbours, I did
stop to wonder why an atheist was sending a Christmas card to a Muslim
family!

When I was a Catholic, a long, long time ago, I used to think that
non-Christians who celebrated Christmas were trying to have their cake and
eat it.  Then I realised that there's been a mid-winter festival here long
before the Christians co-opted it for Christmas, so I have a perfect right
to celebrate that :)  At least it gives me an excuse to make lace
Christmas decorations.

I was amused last week when some of the big shops along Oxford St in
London said they wouldn't be having a Father Christmas this year, because
it might offend people of other faiths.  And yet they seem happy enough to
profit from and promote the orgy of Christmas present-buying that's going
on now!

I don't have a DH, so I have to write all my Christmas cards myself... 

Regards,
Annette, London




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[lace] > 4000 pinholes

[J. Falkink]

Hello Spiders

This weekend I started a Torchon sampler with the boring task of pricking
more than 4000 pinholes.
I vaguely remember a remark on a Spanish site (must be between
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/linkovz-EN.html but I don't remember
which one) about a device making prickings. Wouldn't a digital-photo like
print service be an idea? e-mail a pattern exported from a program like
listed on http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/SoftKlos-EN.html and get a
ready printed and pricked pattern at the desired size returned by
snail-mail.

Does anybody now more about such a device (I don't understand Spanish),
would there be customers for such a service and (if yes) would there be
someone to exploit such a service?

Jo Faklink
throwing a stone in the quite pond to see wether it cause waves.

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Re: [lace] Re: Busy lists?

[Dmt11home]

Annette wrote:
Then I realised that there's been a mid-winter festival here long
before  the Christians co-opted it for Christmas, so I have a perfect right
to  celebrate that :)  
 
One year we decided to celebrate Roman Saturnalia instead of Christmas. I  
did a lot of research on this but in the end, it was surprising how similar the 
 
Saturnalia was to Christmas. For instance, the giving of fruitcake is from  
Saturnalia and the wearing of peaked hats like Santa hats and the giving of  
presents. When my sister-in-law and her family arrived for just the dessert she 
 
inquired about why we were all wearing Santa hats and we had to tell her we 
were  celebrating Saturnalia. I think appeared to be a non-sequitor to her. 
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[eva schaefer]

Hello Jen and all
 there is no such thing as a dumb question! If you
don't ask, how are you going to learn!

Cannot help with the wire, and not much on the thread
one, but: at an OIDFA meeting in Sweden, we had, let's
call it a lively discussion, with a representative of
a linen thread manufacturer. His point was, they did
not make very fine thread because noone bought it,
and, of course, our position was, we don't buy it if
it is not available.  Chicken and the egg!

Greetings from freezing Spain, Eva





  




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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[Ilske Thomsen]

Hello Jennifer,
Flax is a very difficult plant and to become thread is a very long 
working process so it is very expensive. And the  consumption of such 
fine linnen thread is so few that nobody is interested to do this heavy 
work and it would cost much more than it actually do. And in former 
time nearly everywhere in Europe flax was cultivated and much more 
things were made from linnen than today. There was a time you couldn't 
find any flax-field in Germany. we have a company outside of Hamburg 
who cultivate since a few years again flax but only for technical 
purposes.
Greetings

Ilske
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[lace] Swedish/Danish woven hearts

[Nøkkentved]

Hello to all from Denmark - where we are waiting for the first snow.
Time for lacemaking and Christmas hearts.
The Permo website is one of the websites I give the adress to, if I am asked
how to make the Danish Christ Hearts. In Denmark, many believe that it is a
typical Danish tradition to make the woven hearts.
But there is another adress too:
http://www.haabet.dk/users/julehjerter/english.html where you can learn to
make some other interesting hearts too.
Of course these hearts are made from paper, but indeed I understand from the
many questions I get, that many will like to make these hearts into lace
designs too. And I do think that it really would be interesting to see
examples of this process - from paper to lace So if any of you are making
such designs, I will like very much to see pictures of them, and if it is
possible to be allowed to put the pictures on the homepage of our Danish lace
society "Lacing in Denmark". I have promised to try to find pictures of such
lace-designs... If you have any pictures  you want to share with me - and our
Danish lace society - please send to my private adress: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All good lace-wishes from Denmark
arne

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[lace] First Snowfall

[Pene Piip]

Dear gentle spiders,
Yesterday (Tuesday) we had several snow flurries & a light dusting overnight.
Then mid-morning it started snowing for several hours & now there is a good
couple of centimeters which has accumulated on all the trees & the ground.
So winter is finally here in Tartu. And I've been tatting some snowflakes.
Mary Piper's "Tatting" book has some interesting patterns. I adapted one
four-pointed motif I liked into six points. I found that by using mock rings
& split rings, cutting & tying off after making a round can be eliminated.
I would like to remind everyone about celebrating St Catherine's Day on
the 25th, next Wednesday. I'm hoping to make some Cattern Cookies.
Stay warm & happy,
Pene Piip,
who now lives in the "white" city of Tartu in the Republic of Estonia.  

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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[Lacemania]

Jen,

I do wire bobbin lace and have gotten the gauges (US) from my local surplus 
store or from a source online in NJ.  Yes, you can use the wire from the shop, 
but I make sure it is coated wire with an enamel coating.  Usually the enamel 
is colored, hence, red wire, green wire, copper wire, etc.  The coating is a 
protection from the wire tarnishing.  This is desirable for me, but depends on 
the purpose the wire is being used for.

The gauges I use are from 30 (largish) to 33 which is fine.  When I use a 30 
gauge wire, it is usually a single strand.  When I use a 32 gauge wire, it is 
usually double stranded, depending on the design. I have designed some things 
using the double strands.  Lenka has some patterns which are single in this 
gauge and very wonderfully done.

And 33 gauge is usually tripled.  Since my patterns are using just the two 
elements of plaits and leaves, these suggested gauges and thickness work very 
well.

If you are interested in learning more, I have a page called "a brief study 
in wire bobbin lace" on my web page.  You may find it informative and useful.

Dianna Stevens
Kent Washington, USA
www.domesticarts.com 

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Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members

[Lorri Ferguson]

The wire Lenka uses (and so do several others) is from/the type used in coils
for electric motors.  Old rotary phones have lovely colors.  Try shops that
repair electric motors or co. that make the coils.  This is not an item found
at your typical craft or hardware store -you must 'think outside the box'.

Lorri -who does wire lace also
  - Original Message -
  From: DonLynn
  To: Jennifer Audsley ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 1:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [lace] Re: reticent list members


  My question Jen, is where can we buy 100 micron wire for Lenka's lace
ideas.

  Lynn Scott, Wollongong, Australia

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[lace] Re:Is this true/Practical Skills

[Eileen Lee]

$89??
I got my copy of Practical Skills in Bobbin Lace for $11, new. The original 
price was around $17 (paperback) and there are several new copies available 
at less than that from www.fetchbook.info   They seem to come and go, but 
this morning there are still some there.

Eileen in the San Francisco Bay Area
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[lace] Swedish/Danish woven hearts

[Jean Nathan]

There is a book of Danish lace hearts, which I saw only last week, but
didn't note the name of it or the author. I didn't even take in what
language it was written in, just looked at the pictures and prickings. All I
know is that there's a red and white heart/basket on the cover and they
seemed to be  torchon lace.

Jean in Poole

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Re: [lace] Re:Is this true/Practical Skills

[Weronika Patena]

I looked at Fetchbooks, and there's plenty available, $11-17.  Some of the
Amazon marketplace sellers just have no idea what they're doing.  

Weronika

On Wed, Nov 17, 2004 at 08:30:36AM -0800, Eileen Lee wrote:
> $89??
> 
> I got my copy of Practical Skills in Bobbin Lace for $11, new. The original 
> price was around $17 (paperback) and there are several new copies available 
> at less than that from www.fetchbook.info   They seem to come and go, but 
> this morning there are still some there.
> 
> Eileen in the San Francisco Bay Area
> 
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> 

-- 
Weronika Patena
Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA
http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika

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[lace] Wire for lace

[Jean Nathan]

Lorri wrote:



This is where I must mention that dreaded H word again - Hobbycraft in the
UK. They sell 28 gauge coloured enamelled copper wire in copper, purple,
red, green, blue and black intended for making wire coil beads for
jewellery. I'm surprised that a UK craft shop stocks something that isn't
readily available in US crafts shops because you're usually able to get all
sorts of things that we can't.

http://www.wires.co.uk sell a whole range of different wires - coloured
enamelled copper, woven cloth mesh, knitted - as well as a spiral beadmaker
and wire craft books, including 'Copper wire lace', and will supply by
internet order via credit card anywhere in the world - see their Info page.

Wires.co.uk quote thicknesses in mm, where Hobbycraft quote the gauge of the
wire. Somewhere on the web, there's bound to be a conversion chart.

Jean in Poole

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[lace] Re: Practical Skills

[Madelin Holtkamp]

Dear Arachnes,

If someone is looking for a copy of this book, I have a duplicate that I
got in a lot of lace books I purchased.  I was going to put it on eBay, but
would be happy to see it go to someone who would really use it.  Contact me
off-list.

Regards--Madelin

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[lace] fine threads

[Bev Walker]

Hi everyone, and the reticent lace-list member who asked 

> Here goes. Why isn't thread manufactured today that is as fine as those
> available in the early lace-making days.

Supply and demand ;)
As someone pointed out, growing flax for fineness isn't viable any more
(not sure about the 'extinctness' - I think it is growth tech., rather
than the species that determines the fineness) but also if we, the
market, were clamouring for fine threads, there would be some - and by
clamouring, it would have to be  mega-bucks' worth.

Mettler makes a synthetic fine thread, a 100/2 size, which I've seen in a
needleworks suppy shop, and have been tempted to buy, to try for Honiton -
it comes in colours, but is pricey if I would want a lot of colours - I
should really try it, even though the synthetic aspect put me off. It is
called Metrosene, and designed for strength & sheen, for use in sewing
fine fabrics.
Has anybody tried this thread?

 -- bye for now
Bev in Sooke, BC (on a sunny, calm, November day - between storms, one
supposes - west coast of Canada)
Cdn. floral bobbins
www.woodhavenbobbins.com

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Fw: [lace] > 4000 pinholes

[Antje González]

>> I vaguely remember a remark on a Spanish site (must be between
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/linkovz-EN.html but I don't remember
which one) about a device making prickings.

Well. I have never come across that site you mention. Are you sure it is
a device that makes the prickings? I have seen a site of a person who offers
to make the prickings you want with a computer. The site is
http://www.patronspuntes.com

Greetings from a Spanish lacer

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Re: [lace] Wire for lace

[Weronika Patena]

Michaels in the US has colored 28 gauge wires too, but I thought they were too
thick for lacemaking...  They don't have anything finer than 28. 

Weronika

On Wed, Nov 17, 2004 at 04:49:17PM -, Jean Nathan wrote:
> Lorri wrote:
> 
>  at your typical craft or hardware store -you must 'think outside the box'.>
> 
> This is where I must mention that dreaded H word again - Hobbycraft in the
> UK. They sell 28 gauge coloured enamelled copper wire in copper, purple,
> red, green, blue and black intended for making wire coil beads for
> jewellery. I'm surprised that a UK craft shop stocks something that isn't
> readily available in US crafts shops because you're usually able to get all
> sorts of things that we can't.
> 
> http://www.wires.co.uk sell a whole range of different wires - coloured
> enamelled copper, woven cloth mesh, knitted - as well as a spiral beadmaker
> and wire craft books, including 'Copper wire lace', and will supply by
> internet order via credit card anywhere in the world - see their Info page.
> 
> Wires.co.uk quote thicknesses in mm, where Hobbycraft quote the gauge of the
> wire. Somewhere on the web, there's bound to be a conversion chart.
> 
> Jean in Poole
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
Weronika Patena
Caltech, Pasadena, CA, USA
http://vole.stanford.edu/weronika

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Re: [lace] fine linen thread -- history

[Alice Howell]

At 01:43 AM 11/17/2004, you wrote:
 Why isn't thread manufactured today that is as fine as those available 
in the early lace-making days.

To get fine thread, flax has to be grown very close together, so that it 
competes for light and nutrients, and becomes long and thin rather than a 
'healthier' size.  Then this flax, after retting and various other 
processes has to be spun, which requires a skilled spinner to cope with 
the fineness (and therefor delicacy) of the thread.  When lots of this 
thread was needed for lace and I presume other things, it was commercially 
viable to grow and manufacture it.  Sadly now, so little is required that 
it isn't commercially viable.
Your question has come up with lacemakers before, and will again.
In my reading and study of lace history, the commercial viability of very 
fine linen thread was lost in 1790 when the cotton gin was developed, 
making cotton thread commercially viable and much cheaper to produce than 
the linen.  The linen supplies that were already in the warehouses were 
used up by 1830.  After that, the only extremely fine threads available 
were silk, and later, manmade fibers.

At the same time, in 1790, the lace making machines were making themselves 
felt in the lace industry.  The handmade lace industry was already being 
hurt.  So, the very fine linen threads had a reduced market from two 
sides.  The lace machines could not deal with the very fine threads.  They 
had to be stronger to survive the stresses of machine weaving.  Production 
of the fine threads ceased.

I've also heard that the specially cultivated long thin flax varieties were 
lost when farmers stopped growing them.  So, even a hobbyist can not, 
today, grow a patch of it for self use.

Alice in Oregon  -- another overcast, dreary day.  More rain is coming. 

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Re: [lace] fine linen thread -- history

[Dmt11home]

This is very interesting information. Do you have a book that you got this  
information from that one could cite if one were trying to footnote it.  
(Although I enjoy the challenge of footnoting in the new era, a citation to an  
internet list and Alice in Oregon might draw raised eyebrows in some  circles.)
Devon

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[lace] Re: Wire for Lace

[Susan Lambiris]

Actually I would think 28 gauge copper might be quite good for coarse torchon-
style lace patterns--something one might work in a cordonnet 40 or cordonnet 30 
if using DMC thread. This would be a nice way to get started in wire lace, for 
the same reasons torchon is a good introduction to thread lace. In wire, as in 
everything else, the pattern can always be adjusted to suit the gauge of the 
material at hand

However, if you want colored copper wire at the finer gauges, try the online 
stores at http://www.artisticwire.com/ or 
http://www.landofodds.com/store/find2s.htm 
or http://www.softflexcompany.com/search.html (all of which have good 
selections of 
wires in sizes down to 34 gauge, which is fine enough for me to do medium-fine 
Bucks point very happily). Different wire, including one that is said to be 
sterling 
silver, can be found at http://www.parawire.com/craftstore.html  -- and I have 
no 
connection to any of these companies, except that I have bought from them all 
(well, 
not the Artistic Wire store, but I've bought plenty of their wire from the 
other 
places) and am a very satisfied customer. I'm currently looking for precious 
metal 
wire rather than enameled copper and haven't found any finer than 30 gauge, but 
the best source for that is probably Rio Grande, which doesn't have its 
catalogs 
online. Oh, and copper, enameled copper, and silver wire can also be bought 
from Lenka 
at the Silver Pin Studio.

Sue in Raleigh

At 02:07 PM 11/17/2004 -0500, Weronika wrote:
>Michaels in the US has colored 28 gauge wires too, but I thought they were too
>thick for lacemaking...  They don't have anything finer than 28. 
>
>On Wed, Nov 17, 2004 at 04:49:17PM -, Jean Nathan wrote:
>> Lorri wrote:
>> 
>> > at your typical craft or hardware store -you must 'think outside the box'.>
>> 
>> This is where I must mention that dreaded H word again - Hobbycraft in the
>> UK. They sell 28 gauge coloured enamelled copper wire in copper, purple,
>> red, green, blue and black intended for making wire coil beads for
>> jewellery. I'm surprised that a UK craft shop stocks something that isn't
>> readily available in US crafts shops because you're usually able to get all
>> sorts of things that we can't.
>> 
>> http://www.wires.co.uk sell a whole range of different wires - coloured
>> enamelled copper, woven cloth mesh, knitted - as well as a spiral beadmaker
>> and wire craft books, including 'Copper wire lace', and will supply by
>> internet order via credit card anywhere in the world - see their Info page.
>> Jean in Poole
>
Susan Lambiris
Raleigh, NC
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Re: [lace] First Snowfall and Tatting

[W & N Lafferty]

> Yesterday (Tuesday) we had several snow flurries & a light dusting overnight.
> Then mid-morning it started snowing for several hours & now there is a good
> couple of centimeters which has accumulated on all the trees & the ground.
>So winter is finally here in Tartu. And I've been tatting some snowflakes

Pene's up in Tartu
Where winters come so soon
There's tatting in her pocket
Hope there's light to tat at noon!

There's snowflakes at her window
And piled against the door
She's got tatting in her pocket
And she still wants to make more!

There's a couple more pocket poems surfaced into my poor excuse for
a brain lately - I have put them on Chat, but for those who only
get Lace::

If you love your chocolate
And chocolate cravings you have felt -
Keep tatting in your pocket
'Cause chocolate there would melt.

Trifle's on the menu
Cream and cake in every bite.
I'd like tatting in my pocket
But the fit is now too tight


Noelene in Cooma
Where it is gloriously green after our spring rain - but
it may have been the last good rain for another 12 months
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[lace] The size of wire for lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Spiders,

I love wire and find that finer enamelled copper wire plied is more flexible 
and forgiving than heavier wire worked singly.  As Weronika said, AWG 28 is too 
heavy.  (Personally, I think size 28 is in the "knit a sweater in a weekend" 
class of craft materials.)  When I ply wire, I have used up to 6 plies of AWG 
42.  Also, copper is pretty maleable, as is silver, which is even softer.  The 
AWG 42 wire that I have is a different alloy and a little stiffer.  So, thus 
far we have size and composition as variables.

What do I mean whan I say "finer"?

AWG 32 ~= .200 mm = 200 microns
AWG 38 ~= .100 mm = 100 microns

The following table lists what I consider to be useable wire sizes for lace.

AWG Number  [Inch]   [mm]
30  0.0100   0.255  
31 0.00893  0.227  
32  0.00795  0.202**  These are the sizes I like best
33  0.00708  0.180**  I use them with 2-4 plies
34  0.00631  0.160**
35  0.00562  0.143
36  0.00500  0.127
37  0.00445  0.113
38  0.00397  0.101
39  0.00353  0.0897
40  0.00314  0.0799   **  This wire is hair fine 
  I use it 4-8

All of these sizes are relatively rare in the crafts store marketplace.  And 
deep jewel tone royal blue is the only color that I can't seem to find, sigh . 
. .

I shop in our local electronics surplus stores (which I realize are not common 
everywhere).  As has been mentioned, electric motors are wound with wire in my 
optimum size list, but you will have to guess the size from experience, unless 
you have a micrometer. 

If you just want wire to try wire lace with, you can get size AWG 30-34 (in 
some sort of red color, most likely) in most any hardware store and use 2 plies 
(or 3 plies of AWG 34).

Artistic Wire Company distributes craft enamelled wire up to size 36 in some 
colors, but not all distributors carry the full line and the spools are 
relatively small.

http://www.artisticwire.com/

Jean listed this site in the UK, and for wire lace, I recommend the .200 mm and 
.100 mm sizes.  A few colors have .150 mm also.

http://www.wires.co.uk/

Patty Dowden




  

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Re: [lace] > 4000 pinholes

[Brenda Paternoster]

Antje, Jo,
Itsa Bobbins in Devon England sell pre-pricked grids (on acetate) for 
Honiton and Bucks point fillings.  According to their web site the 
company which manufactures the grids for them is FosterFinch Ltd, who 
have a "purpose built computer controlled punching machine that is 
fully programmable", but the link to FosterFinch gave the dreaded 404 
not available error.

Some years ago, when he was just starting to manufacture the grids I 
had the pleasure of meeting George Downs of Itsa and his colleague Tim 
Finch at Alex Stillwell's home, for discussions about what grids we 
thought lacemakers might purchase.  George was the mechanical one and 
Tim the computer boffin.  I recall them telling me that the positioning 
of the holes was precisely controlled by computer, but they weren't 
punched with a pointed needle as that clogged up the whole thing, 
instead they had to use very fine tubes; more like a hypodermic needle 
I suppose.

This was at the time when Alex and I were both on The Lace Guild Exec 
committee and Tim was still at university and using this project for 
his thesis - he was especially interested in how I was bending and 
stretching lace patterns on my (then new!) first Acorn computer as he 
too was using Acorn, or was it an Archimedes!  Must have been late 
1980s.

Haven't heard from George or Tim for years, so all the usual 
disclaimers.

Brenda
On Nov 17, 2004, at 6:48 pm, Antje González wrote:
I vaguely remember a remark on a Spanish site (must be between
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/linkovz-EN.html but I don't remember
which one) about a device making prickings.
Well. I have never come across that site you mention. Are you sure 
it is
a device that makes the prickings? I have seen a site of a person who 
offers
to make the prickings you want with a computer. The site is
http://www.patronspuntes.com

Greetings from a Spanish lacer
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Brenda
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/
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Re: [lace] fine threads

[Brenda Paternoster]

On Nov 17, 2004, at 6:41 pm, Bev Walker wrote:
Mettler makes a synthetic fine thread, a 100/2 size, which I've seen 
in a
needleworks suppy shop, and have been tempted to buy, to try for 
Honiton -
it comes in colours, but is pricey if I would want a lot of colours - I
should really try it, even though the synthetic aspect put me off. It 
is
called Metrosene, and designed for strength & sheen, for use in sewing
fine fabrics.
Has anybody tried this thread?

No!  but if anyone has a spare yard or two it would be very much 
appreciated!

Brenda
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/
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[lace] Re Busy lists

[Claire Allen]

Annette wrote

Me too.  Last year, while writing a Christmas card to my neighbours, I 
did
stop to wonder why an atheist was sending a Christmas card to a Muslim
family!

When I was a Catholic, a long, long time ago, I used to think that
non-Christians who celebrated Christmas were trying to have their cake 
and
eat it.  Then I realised that there's been a mid-winter festival here 
long
before the Christians co-opted it for Christmas, so I have a perfect 
right
to celebrate that :)  At least it gives me an excuse to make lace
Christmas decorations.

I was amused last week when some of the big shops along Oxford St in
London said they wouldn't be having a Father Christmas this year, 
because
it might offend people of other faiths.  And yet they seem happy enough 
to
profit from and promote the orgy of Christmas present-buying that's 
going
on now!

I don't have a DH, so I have to write all my Christmas cards myself...

Regards,
Annette, London

And I say

I'm not quite sure how Father Christmas can offend people from other 
faiths when he is not exactly a religious symbol himself.

I too am an Atheist and I celebrate Christmas as the winter solstice 
festival that was hijacked when Christianity came to this country. And 
if people are not prepared to respect the main religion of the country 
they are living in maybe they should rethink where they live. (That is 
not intended as racist by the way).

Claire

Kent, UK

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RE: [lace] christening gown pattern (lace)

[Steph Peters]

Margot Walker wrote:
>We saw something similar last summer on the lace tour after the OIDFA 
>Congress.  Lace made by Gabriele Grohmann was displayed in Klatovy and 
>she had made a Christening dress similar to Helene's description, except 
>that there was an inner dress of cloth and an outer one of lace.  It was 
>really marvelous.
  
Gabriele comes from a family of tailors. I bet she had the idea for the lace 
and then made the gown to fit.

Regards Steph 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
In Germany on a lace course learning some Milanese.

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[lace] christening gown pattern (lace)

[Margot Walker]

On Wednesday, November 17, 2004, at 06:56  PM, Steph Peters wrote:
Margot Walker wrote:
   We saw something similar last summer on the lace tour after the 
OIDFA
   Congress.  Lace made by Gabriele Grohmann was displayed in Klatovy 
and
   she had made a Christening dress similar to Helene's description, 
except
   that there was an inner dress of cloth and an outer one of lace.  
It was
   really marvelous.
Gabriele comes from a family of tailors. I bet she had the idea for the 
lace and then made the gown to fit.

Regards Steph
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
In Germany on a lace course learning some Milanese.
I guess I didn't explain it clearly.  The dress was completely separate, 
very plain, and without lace.  The lace was a circle with a opening for 
the head and 2 slits for the arms.


Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada
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[lace] Re: Stumpwork Beetles by Jane Nicholas

[Lynn Carpenter]

"Jean Peach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I have just been sent from The Embroiderers Guild their
>catalogue of the books that they sell.  In the Stumpwork
>section there are two new books
>
>Stumpwork Beetles by Jane Nicholas

Tuesday I got my Edward R. Hamilton book catalog, a big newsprint catalog,
over 90 pages, and this book (the Stumpwork Beetles one) is in it!
Unfortunately, A, only available in the US, and B, hidden somewhere in the
90 pages -- I can't find it to tell you which page, now that I am looking!

Lynn Carpenter in SW Michigan, USA
alwen at i2k dot com

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[lace] wire for lace/fine threads

[Jennifer Audsley]

Thanks for all the replies! I'm not sure if the 100micron wire my dh has is 
enamelled or not - I'll ask him tonight.
Also check where he purchased it, but as it's for electronic engineering I 
would guess it came from an elecrtonics
supplier type place.

What I am really asking in a round about way is  "can you make wire 
needlelace". I had a quick try with the copper wire
that dh had lying around, but the wire kept snapping when I tried to pull the 
buttonhole stitches in firmly enough.
Don't know if that happened because my skills are lacking (most likely) or that 
the wire I used was not suitable.

Jen (now not so reticent) in Melbourne, Australia (where its warm with grey 
skies that are trying to rain)

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RE: [lace] wire for lace/fine threads

[Patricia Dowden]

Ah Jennifer!

Now we come to your true question!  I have tatted with wire, which is quite 
analogous to the button hole stitch, so (in spite of not having tried needle 
lace in wire) my first guess is that you can successfully do so.  

Wire teaches you that tensioning is about removing all the slack and not about 
pulling hard.  Wire will stretch, but you don't want it to.  Any kinks are weak 
spots where the wire can break.  I had to learn (in tatting) to treat the 
working thread as if I were using a laying tool.  The objective is to always 
have a smooth loop of wire that isn't stressed or kinked.  You will need to 
train yourself to use the wire the way it wants to be used.

In tatting, which transfers the knot from one thread to another, I have to make 
sure that the tension is off the correct thread at the correct time.  You may 
have to baby the stitches in more than one stage.  I can see that the upright 
thread of a button hole stitch would need to have the slack removed first and 
then complete the stitch.  If you are accustomed to making a stitch and then 
pulling up the slack, it is just not the optimum technique for wire.

With wire the general rule is to make the stitches where you want them (i.e. 
remove the slack as you go along) because wire just doesn't take pulling the 
slack out past any point where the wire changes direction.  Twisted button hole 
stitch makes this principle even more important.

Another point that just swam to the fore is that wire is much more hands on 
(literally).  In bobbin lace, I have my fingers on the wire to support it and 
smooth it, all the time.  And the amount of wire from the bobbin to the work is 
as short as possible.  (The opposite of thread, which shouldn't be handled any 
more than absolutely necessary.)

While wire is thread-like, making stitches with it is more like placing where 
you want the stitch and bending the wire (once!) to form  the thread path.  
That last phrase is the heart of the matter, with wire, you have to form the 
thread path, not just let physics determine the shape of the stitch.  
Needlework developed methods optimum for threads and in recognition of the 
behavior of threads.

I am thinking through the steps

1.  Working left to right
2.  The wire comes down in front of the work
3.  Take the needle around or through the foundation stitch
4.  Make sure the slack is removed from the vertical bar of the stitch in front 
of the work
5.  Bend the wire to form the change of direction ( was down, now it is up)
6.  Put the needle through the space between the previous work and the downward 
thread
7.  Remove the slack

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Good Luck and let us know how it comes out for you.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll pick up speed.  It won't always be so 
minutely focused.

Patty
  


Thanks for all the replies! I'm not sure if the 100micron wire my dh has is 
enamelled or not - I'll ask him tonight.
Also check where he purchased it, but as it's for electronic engineering I 
would guess it came from an elecrtonics
supplier type place.

What I am really asking in a round about way is  "can you make wire 
needlelace". I had a quick try with the copper wire
that dh had lying around, but the wire kept snapping when I tried to pull the 
buttonhole stitches in firmly enough.
Don't know if that happened because my skills are lacking (most likely) or that 
the wire I used was not suitable.

Jen (now not so reticent) in Melbourne, Australia (where its warm with grey 
skies that are trying to rain)

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Re: [lace] fine linen thread -- history

[Clay Blackwell]

Hello Devon -

In 1999, I attended my first (and, to date, only...) IOLI
Convention, where one of the highlights was a presentation
by "The Lares" - a husband and wife team who presented "The
Story of Flax".  Unfortunately, the program for the
Convention does not provide any more information about them,
and all I can tell you is that they were extremely
well-informed on their subject of the growing, harvesting,
retting, etc., etc., of linen.  They wore clothes which they
had produced from seed - through all stages of production,
and had antique tools with which they demonstrated some of
the steps.   And they were very clear in their explanation
of why the linen we are able to buy today is so much heavier
than that available 150 years ago.

I won't try to recall the details...  but just want to toss
this information out as a possible source for you.  If I
remember correctly, they live in Pennsylvania - but I could
be wrong about that!!  I suggest that you contact someone in
the Chesapeake Region Lace Guild for more information.

Clay

Clay Blackwell
Lynchburg, VA

Devon wrote...

> This is very interesting information. Do you have a book
that you got this
> information from that one could cite if one were trying to
footnote it.
> (Although I enjoy the challenge of footnoting in the new
era, a citation to an
> internet list and Alice in Oregon might draw raised
eyebrows in some  circles.)
> Devon

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[lace] antique prickings

I've just been given four antique prickings of four different types of
lace..lucky, lucky me :)  What I would like to do is make copies of them in
black and white so I can study them.  Right now a couple of them look like
nothing more than a mass of pin holes extremely close together.  At a later
date I'd like to be able to "true them" as well and give'em a go :)  So how
do I go about making a readable copy?  One is on vellum, the others are on
very fragile card.  Do I have to prick through every hole onto carbon or
what?  TYIA  Sharon on dull, cold (for us) Vancouver Island

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[lace] Re: lace bobbins Australian dig site

[Barbara Stokes]

Dear Brian,
My DH is digging up yard at Rose St., Chippendale for building on, he
has found bits of pottery, glass & tiles etc.. shall I get him to dig
deeper to find some bobbins??
Barbara, Parkes, Australia.. where the current dust storms and locust
plague are preventing one uncovering the lace pillows!!

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