Fw: [lace] Representation of lace (loooong post)
I wonder if beamish museum in the north of england would have any similar shaped old tool for making these mats, they certainly had them in use and being made when we visited in the 1980's. As they also have old dental tools and equipment for all the other dwellings and buildings it might be worth asking. I have enjoyed reading all the different takes on this and have learned a lot in the last half hour:-) thanks to all. Sue T Dorset UK Have not heard the term proddie or clippie rug, in North America we have hooked rugs from colonial times (though how far back, I don't know), sometimes made of wool yarn hooked in to the canvas (and yes, it is from sacking or what we call burlap bags), sometimes of rags torn in strips (this rug-hooking is seeing a hobby revival). The tool in question does resemble a lace bobbin but as others have pointed out , there should be many more of it to confirm this fact. I think it is a one-of and with the hole in the end, looks to me more like a purpose-made device, perhap as a large sewing needle to sew long leather cords where needed. We were resourceful back then - if we needed a tool to do a job we would make one. If the museum has done its research, there will be documentation to back up the claim that it is a bobbin for making lace, or the placard should state 'bobbin-questionmark'. On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Sue Duckles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if it's a bradawl for a proddie or clippie rug... It would need to be strong enough to poke holes in sacking and poke either long or short lengths of fabric through the hole. -- Bev (near Sooke, BC on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Representation of lace (loooong post)
Sue wrote: I wonder if beamish museum in the north of england would have any similar shaped old tool for making these mats, What a good idea. Contact details for all their departments are on: http://www.beamish.org.uk/visitor-contact.html Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fw: [lace] Representation of lace tool
I found this picture on the site in the colliery village but not a clear enough picture of the utensil used. Most of the times they represent at beamish tended to be during the 19th century and forward I think, so maybe that would make a difference. Also I would think that people from around the globe moving to other countries would use and have someone make something more familiar to them than to use the 'same' looking item. We look at all the fantastic shapes of bobbins used around the world so I doubt that proggy tools would all be the same either. I think I might ask if beamish have a photo of theirs:-) Will let you know if they reply. Mark, may I forward the link to your photo please so they can compare? http://freespace.virgin.net/l.carter/bmshtour.html Sue T, Dorset UK Sue wrote: I wonder if beamish museum in the north of england would have any similar shaped old tool for making these mats, What a good idea. Contact details for all their departments are on: http://www.beamish.org.uk/visitor-contact.html Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Oops!
Sorry you got my letter to Aurelia, your addresses are next to each other and I hit the wrong button. Apologies Alex - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] The strange bobbin
Could this be a nalbinding needle, nal bin ding, originated in Scandinavia I think, and is a form of knitting (well sort of), using one sewing needle, usually crafted (whittled) from wood, pointy end and a thread hole in the other. There are quite a few references to be found on the net. Rosemary in Portugal, gently sweltering in the heat. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Re: Representation of lace
Now, I take issue with the claim that tatting is related to macrame. Tatting is a single thread, or two at most, worked in loops. Macrame is many threads, each following its own path and interacting in many ways with its neighbors. Very different! I agree. But there is one similarity which I have noticed which perhaps explains the comparison, inappropriate as it may be. That is that the lark's head knot usually used to begin macrame looks quite similar to the knot worked over the base thread in tatting. Vicki in hot steamy Maryland Bingo! The Tatting stitch, which Tatters call a double stitch, is a pair of half hitches, which are knots. Tatting is a knotted lace. So Tatting is more than faintly related to Macrame, which can also produce lacelike fabrics. Half of a double stitch is also exactly the same as a buttonhole stitch and some Tatting stitch formations use only one half of a double stitch repeated, so there is a kinship with needle laces. Knotting, which preceded Tatting, is different in that Knotting was produced with overhand knots: single, double, multiple overhand wraps; and Tatting instead uses half hitches which have more flexibility in the methods that can induce the thread to behave as desired. The development of Tatting is definitely an 1800s process. While individuals may have conceived of the basics of Tatting at different times and different places, the flowering of Tatting was Victorian. Mlle. Branchardiere, we salute you ( her works are available in the Digital Archive at weaving.net). Since the expression of Tatting is so relatively recent, there is a record of the development process. Patty (sniffling in misery from the smoke contaminated air in California, can't see the hills that form the Silicon Valley!) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] OIDFA Trip - Day 2 Brussels
OIDFA Trip - Day 2 Brussels Since I'm still suffering time zone adjustment, I woke up early, so wrote the next episode in my saga. It had rained, and the sky was icky gray, windy. However, this was Tour Brussels day. It was a day for my warmest clothes, raincoat and umbrella. Breakfast was provided in the hotel. Belgium breakfast was cold cereal, hard roll, cheese, hot drink, orange juice. Since I was on the south edge of town, near the train station, the hotel provided a Metro map for getting around. There was an entrance at the train station and also a block from the hotel. I bought a one day ticket and soon found myself in the center of town. I found out that Metro stations often have several exits, on different streets. It took some time, and a couple questions, to find my location on the city map and get started to the main square, Grand Place, where the tourist bureau was located. There I found out that the money machine was just around the corner. A lace friend who recently returned from Europe had sold me her leftover Euros, so I had funds for the first day but knew I needed more. A cash machine visit was necessary every 2-3 days. The buildings, streets, and squares were very interesting to this western traveler. Slowly I made my way towards the Costume and Lace Museum. Took many wrong turns and accidently found the Manikinpis statue in the process. It did not have any clothes on that day. The Museum collection had very good quality things in it. It was primarily clothing since 1940. The top floor had a room with lace. The collection is not huge but is worth seeing. They close for the lunch hour but said I could come back. The collection was small enough that I saw it all before noon closing time. Bought a long, skinny turkey sandwich 'take away' and ate it on the porch of the Opera House, watching some maintenance men replace a window in the 3rd floor of a building across the street. This glass was at least 5' x 6' in size and took a crane-hoist to raise it in place. The storm seemed to be getting worse so I returned to my hotel and had a nap while it rained hard. When the sun came out, I took a walk and had dinner. Being a lady, and traveling alone, I did not go out at night. Still suffering some jet lag, I went to bed early. Thus ended Day 2. Lace collection two and lots of walking stairs. Alice in Oregon -- where it's hot and sunny - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] The strange bobbin
Nalbinding is sort-of related to needle lace and requires a giant sewing needle with the hole for the thread at the blunt end. Info about and pics of nalbinding needles at http://www.flickr.com/photos/ragnvaeig/2516822688/in/pool- nalbindingnutters However, the bobbin which Mark saw has a hole at the pointed end. http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z43/tatmantats/lace/ antiquebobbin1.jpg IMO it's more like a BL bobbin than a nalbinding needle, though I still think it's a tool used for prodding something or boring a hole. The notches on the other end suggest that one end was used to make a hole in something and then a string/cord pulled through that hole using the notches. Of course we are all thinking it's textile related, but it may have been used for something else: a crude tool for sewing up a turkey after it was stuffed? a mini dibber for planting seedlings? some other use? Brenda Could this be a nalbinding needle, nal bin ding, originated in Scandinavia I think, and is a form of knitting (well sort of), using one sewing needle, usually crafted (whittled) from wood, pointy end and a thread hole in the other. Brenda in Allhallows, Kent http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Representation of lace
On 7/16/08 10:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to the historical folk toys site and they claim tatting goes back to the 16th century. Here's part of the blurb: Tatting may have originated in 16th-century Italy. Tatting resembles macramé, which is considered to be one of the oldest types of lace. Examples of this kind of lace have been found in Egyptian tombs. Egyptian hieroglyphic texts give evidence that the method of manipulating thread with a shuttle (called a makouk) into circles and rings was practiced. This may have been the craft that evolved into tatting. Tatting also resembles knotting, which is also made with a shuttle. Knotting may have spread from China westward after the Middle East was opened by Dutch trade routes. The description they use is an old one out of many old time books before they knew more of the history of tatting. As a friend of mine quoted about my post regarding this issue: Quote... The problems is, just because someone says it on the internet, does not make it true... The Joshua Reynolds portrait is actually lady knotting. Which is a series of knots made on a length of thread (usually precious metal) that is then couched down onto fabric... These knots are not flipped but overhand knots and sometimes buillons... Knotting shuttles are much larger that tatting shuttles and the ends are open. Often made of golds, bejewelled and for the gentry of the perios to display their welth and busy hands... It is like the claim years ago that tatting was found in Egyptian tombs! eek! Wrong... A myth that the more it is repeated the harder it is to correct. :-( This particular piece of lace is Sprang. Made like the Cats Cradle kids do... and it has been accredited to knitting, crochet and whatever has suited the particular author... Unqote.. The blurb from historical folk toys goes on to describe paintings from the mid-1700s of women with their tatting shuttles. My sources say these paintings are of jewel encrusted knotting shuttles. Another myth stated from the old tatting books. Mark, aka Tatman Www.tat-man.net - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] The strange bobbin
Just to stir the brain cells a bit, let me point out that half (more or less) the population of Virginia did not come equipped with an English, or even a European background -- they were slaves, many of them no more than a generation from their African roots. And then there's the Native American culture to take into account as well -- Montpelier is way out there on the fringes in Madison's time -- so the culture in the slave quarter would have been an African/Native American/European mixture. And as I was writing that I remembered a pair of ivory awls connected by a green cord that Jeanie Asplundh bought because they looked like they might be sewing related. It turned out, after much research, that they were used in lawn bowling, to determine which ball was closest to the ... oh darn, the little target one that I forget the name of. Anyway, these bobbin things would work great for that, with string run through the hole in the tips. Thinking along the same lines, they'd be suitable to mark out seed lines in a veggie garden -- with a wire run through the hole to keep them together between plantings ... in other words, to my mind they're much more likely to be just about anything other than a lace bobbin. Now, what I want to hear is why Montpelier calls them lace bobbins. Is there some bit of Dolly mythology to support it? Or is it Martha envy? (You know, her 'tatting' shuttle!) Or could it be something in the post Madison history of the place? I'm intrigued. Su Williamsburg, VA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Update to my website
Hello to those who have been following my lace progress since I started in 2005. I have just updated my website by adding the Kununurra Agricultural Show lace section, what lace I have been working on in July (including the lace lizard I was asking you about linen threads earlier this month) and some freebies for Lace R-XP users - www.brandis.com.au/craft/lace/index.html Now I am off to work again. Not sure I told you but I have moved from the Kununurra Visitor Centre (www.kununurratourism.com) as a Tour Consultant to The Kimberley Grande hotel (www.thekimberleygrande.com.au ) where I am to set up a tour desk. In the meantime as I have not worked in the hotel industry before I have been learning Reception and Reservations! My respect for their calm facade is now much higher J Jenny Brandis Kununurra, Western Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.brandis.com.au - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] OIDFA Trip - Day 3 Brugge
OIDFA Trip - Day 3 Brugge Brugge is an hour by train from Brussels. I made an early start and was in Brugge before things opened. The bus goes from the train station to Centrum -- the Central Square. Kant Centrum didn't open until afternoon so I had the morning to browse. I headed out from Centrum to find some museums. The Groeninge Museum turned out to be an art museum that had a lot of religious art including carved triptychs from old churches. The Gruuthouse Museum had been a mansion and was now a museum. It was attached to a church at one place and that room had windows that opened inside the church, high on the side wall. The family members did not have to leave their home to attend church. This museum had a few pieces of lace in one of the rooms. Evidently the family that had lived in the house had owned it. After a lunch eaten on a stone wall of a church garden, I first took a bus back to Centrum. At the tourist place, I found out which bus went close to the Kant Centrum. The driver was not familiar with it at all. Fortunately, I had the address with me. The driver took me to a certain corner, then told me he couldn't go any closer. The streets were narrow and often one-way. I would find the street just around the corner. Sure it was but the house numbers were 100 numbers off of what I wanted. I'm sure that long narrow street was a half mile long, but I finally reached the Kant Centrum and Museum a few minutes before opening time. The lady at the ticket window said it was open...go on in. There were only two people inside at that time, and didn't speak English. When a person goes in the entry hall, showcases on the walls have handmade lace items for sale. In the classrooms, there are pillows with projects currently being done. The walls in the classroom have student work mounted on them. The museum was next door to Kant Centrum in what had been a series of adjacent one-room homes at the back of a tiny church. These had been either poor homes, or widows homes, or church people's quarters. Some walls had been removed to make larger rooms, and doorways had been put in connecting walls. The museum displays were in this series of rooms, in display cabinets. The laces were of a wide variety and quite nice, but the labeling could have been better. There was little information about any of the items. After looking through the museum, and peeking in the church, I made another visit to the workshop. By now, there were 7-8 ladies making lace, and an increasing crowd of visitors. Still no one who spoke English. I just looked at each project, and at all the laces displayed on the walls, then left. The young lady at the ticket office/gift shop told me where I could catch a bus back to Centrum and on to the train station. It turned out to be another half mile walk, but finally I found the bus stop and a bus came. The morning travel was reversedback to Brussels for dinner and packing. I had made my train reservations for the next day while in Brugge since it was a smaller station and the ticket clerk had more time. Weather had been breezy, cloudy, and chilly most of the day. Sun in the afternoon but clouds gathered again in the evening. Day 3 had lace collections three and four. Alice in Oregon - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
