[lace] Dating spangling (English) Update
You will have seen that there have been a couple of valid pieces of information added to this discussion. The first was that spangling did not always involve drilling a hole or (presumably) inserting a staple. I have seen a lot of bobbin collections in my travels (and would like to see more!) but I have only seen one example of this. They wound the wire around the lower shank and attached the spangle from there. Soon I hope to get a picture of a second example of this. :) My thoughts about this are that I would have expected to see a lot more examples of this in my studies if it were a widespread practice. The second one looks good: I like the suggestion that possibly this was an interim/transitional practice before all bobbins were stapled or drilled. Yes, I have written an article on Historic Methods of Spangling There is not much that I have not written about bobbins I am afraid. :( I will look for a free web page and put them all up on that. I have been promising to that for some time... From Brian and Jean Cooranbong. Australia - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Spangled bobbins
Hi Brian I found your comments on spangles bobbins fascinating and agree with your comments. Bucks point is my speciality and over the last 30++ years I have tried many other types of lace, pillows and bobbins. I have come to the conclusion that the bobbins and pillows evolved together and, if you use bobbins with a type of pillow they did not evolve with, they do not work as easily. Although having said that I prefer using a slightly domed pillow with spangled bobbins (and definitely not a flat pillow). However, Midlands bobbins would have been used with a bolster or square pillow (I assume you know what a square pillow is?) and the part of the pillow that is worked on is a similar shape. I have some very old unspangled Midlands bobbins with bulbous ends, a few have single heads and a couple with thistle heads that are probably of similar age, so they may indicate the time when the heads changed. I also have a couple of this old type with staples, no one has mentioned them so far. Staples were probably easier than making holes, but are inclined to come out after a time or break . I was interested about your comment on the difficulty of making the holes, I have always wondered about it, and now I think about it I can think of one of my bobbins (one of the small old ones, but probably not as old as the ones already mentioned) that has probably had the hole made by burning - I must check when I come across it. I would be most interested in your article about all this as well as the other I have just replied to. I am using these little bobbins at the moment as I am researching the techniques that were used for making the very fine Bucks using 160/2 Egyptian cotton, I may have to go finer. Then my problem will be pins. Does anyone have any comments about the fine pins. Again, these were not easy to make in the past and very expensive. How did they get pins sufficiently fine for the very fine Bucks point, sometimes with 8 pins per cm along the footside? All best wishes Alex - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Spangles
>>>There is some evidence that not all English bobbins were spangled by running the spangle through a hole. Some old bobbins have the spangles attached by a collar wound around the end of the bobbin.<<< Clay - you beat me to it!! I have a bobbin (from Grandma's collection) that has the spangle attached by the wire going around the base of the bobbin, not through a hole. It is a pain to put in the bobbin winder, so does not get used too often! Brian, I will see if I can find it , one day soon, and scan it in for you. Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz. lizl...@bigpond.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Origin of spangles (English)
Clay Blackwell wrote: There is some evidence that not all English bobbins were spangled by running the spangle through a hole. Some old bobbins have the spangles attached by a collar wound around the end of the bobbin. This could be an example of the transition to spangling. Some bobbin makers might still have been making "old fashioned" undrilled bobbins while buyers were adding spangles in whatever way they could. Robin P. Los Angeles, California, USA robinl...@socal.rr.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] machine lace
Michael In doing searches on the internet for bobbin lace and needle lace (I am only interested in the hand made variety) I have found the search results sprinkled with various websites where people are using embroidery machines to imitate hand made lace. I didn't keep records, but they are there. Having said that, you might look for Pat Earnshaw's two books on machine laces LACE MACHINES AND MACHINE LACES, 1986. There was a 2nd one also. She goes into great detail about the physical workings of these machines and therefore what they could produce. What you are describing, using water soluble sheets, would end up producing something like "chemical lace" which was made by cotton stitching on a synethetic fabric that could be dissolved leaving only the cotton thread behind. You may end up producing something which has a layout and resemblance to hand made lace, if seen from a distance. But you are not going to achieve identity at a microscopic level. Every example of these machine imitations that I have seen on the internet, if the website has a detailed photo, I can tell that they are machine made. The thread paths simply cannot be the same as with handmade lace, unless you exactly duplicate the movements that a hand lacemaker uses. You might look at one page of my website which shows comparison photos http://lynxlace.com/compare.html The examples of machine laces on my website were not made with the newest embroidery machines, but the older sorts of machines. The newer computerized embroidery machines can do remarkable things. You may achieve an interesting result. But the world has moved on and no longer loves lace. Competition from machines was not the only reason lace died as a way of earning a living. The values of the civilization had changed drastically. And other better ways of earning a living had become possible. Hand made lace relies on the willingness of working people to live perpetually on the verge of starvation. If you are thinking of commercially viable machine made lace, all these other factors also need to be addressed. Lorelei Halley - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] Lace - hand made vs machine made research question
Does anyone know of existing research or someone doing research on hand made lace vs machine made lace? I have an embroidery/sewing machine and free standing lace is my latest obsession. Someone on one of the SCA lists suggesting making free standing lace to mimic the bobbin/needle lace made pre-1650. It is my understanding that when machine produced lace became available at the start of the industrial revolution, lace making as a profession almost died out because it was no longer financially viable. I started thinking about it and at it's most basic level, a single set of bobbins with a single thread connecting them and manipulated back and forth looks very similar to the results of a sewing machine if you remove the fabric. With the common practice of making free standing lace on a water soluble backing, I think the replication of hand made lace could be accomplished at the microscopic level. I have design software for machine embroidery, so I can program the stitching. If someone had already done the research, I don't want to step on any toes or reinvent the wheel. Thanks in advance for any help, suggestions, or discussions. Michael Edwards - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] wonderful dress
That's a lot of eye candy!!! Some of the dress designers were wonderful, then there's the plum dress with the doily on the hip. I'd love to have been able to see the show. Thank you for sharing. Beth McCasland Seattle, WA where it's a beautiful fall day, clear and bright -Original Message- >From: sof >Sent: Oct 17, 2010 2:48 PM >To: >Cc: lace@arachne.com >Subject: Re: [lace] wonderful dress > >More about : > >http://www.kizoa.fr/diaporama/d900954k2032664o1/dentelles > > >Sof in France > > > > >Le 17/10/2010 21:09, Lorelei Halley a écrit : >> That dress is a good reason to be young and skinny. Ah well. >> >> Lorelei >> >> - >> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: >> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to >> arachne.modera...@gmail.com >> > >- >To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: >unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to >arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] wonderful dress
More about : http://www.kizoa.fr/diaporama/d900954k2032664o1/dentelles Sof in France Le 17/10/2010 21:09, Lorelei Halley a écrit : > That dress is a good reason to be young and skinny. Ah well. > > Lorelei > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachne.modera...@gmail.com > - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] wonderful dress
That dress is a good reason to be young and skinny. Ah well. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] wonderfull dress
Jane, Sof, and Bev, thank you, now I saw it. What a pity it's too cold now for it ;-. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] wonderfull dress
The dress is at the tiny url :) http://tinyurl.com/39uwp33 On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Ilske Thomsen wrote: > Sorry, where is there a dress? It's an ad from amazon about books. > Ilske > > -- Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] wonderfull dress
Sorry, where is there a dress? It's an ad from amazon about books. Ilske Am 17.10.2010 um 17:45 schrieb jvik...@sover.net: > Thanks Sof for sending this picture. The dress is beautiful!! > > Jsnr in Vermont, USA where the trees are red, orange and yellow - lovely! > > > >> *http://tinyurl.com/39uwp33 >> >> >> For information, Meli melo fil who organise this exhibition is Martine >> Piveteau group : >> http://www.amazon.fr/s?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=books-fr&field-author=Martine%20Piveteau >> >> Dentelez bien >> >> Sof from France >> Wheather to stay home and make lace!!! > > - > To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: > unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to > arachne.modera...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Origin of spangles (English)
Had just a quick look into "Spangles and Superstitions " from Christine and David Springett. They don't say anything about the beginning but 0n page 6 they wrote; It is true to say that the large majority of English lace bobbins made during the 19th century were intended to be spangled. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] wonderfull dress
Thanks Sof for sending this picture. The dress is beautiful!! Jsnr in Vermont, USA where the trees are red, orange and yellow - lovely! > *http://tinyurl.com/39uwp33 > > > For information, Meli melo fil who organise this exhibition is Martine > Piveteau group : > http://www.amazon.fr/s?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=books-fr&field-author=Martine%20Piveteau > > Dentelez bien > > Sof from France > Wheather to stay home and make lace!!! - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Origin of spangles (English)
Hello all interested in my beaded bobbins, under http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/91823605klvXEA you could look at those bobbins. Ilske - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
[lace] wonderfull dress
*http://tinyurl.com/39uwp33 For information, Meli melo fil who organise this exhibition is Martine Piveteau group : http://www.amazon.fr/s?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=books-fr&field-author=Martine%20Piveteau Dentelez bien Sof from France Wheather to stay home and make lace!!! * - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
Re: [lace] Origin of spangles (English)
There is some evidence that not all English bobbins were spangled by running the spangle through a hole. Some old bobbins have the spangles attached by a collar wound around the end of the bobbin. Clay On 10/16/2010 9:38 PM, Brian Lemin wrote: The significance of the bobbins being drilled or undrilled is that , whereas today we can drill a hole easily, in those days it was difficult; not everyone had access to an Archimedean drill (the drill in use at that time) or even a small diameter drill. Using a hot needle to burn it through was an alternative. My point is, why buy undrilled bobbins if you intend to spangle them? - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com
