Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Karen ZM]

Interesting to follow the discussion on lassen.

What I am still trying to understand, though, is that once the extra piece
of lace is cut away, what is there to keep it looking neat over time (i.e.
not have a frayed edge)?

Karen in Malta

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Bobbi Donnelly]

Good morning Karen and everyone else.
I've been watching this and have finally decided to jump in.
Karen, attached is a photo/diagram. Starting at #1 you make the piece of 
lace.
You finish at #2. (ha ha... can  you tell I do a lot of Tonder? footside on 
the left)
You over lap the two ends to match up exactly. You then basically whip 
stitch
both layers together doing three whip stitches on EVERY pair of the top and 
bottom
layer, moving from the footside to the head side and then back to the foot 
side.
This way you have a good place to hide those ends of your whipping thread.
This is a firm enough connection (not sure how well it holds up to lots of 
washing?)
Then you cut off the loose ends of lace.
If you physically put your hands together in front of you
lay your wrists back to back (palms facing up and down) the wrist area is 
what
you are sewing together. Once it's sewn you cut off the hands.
However, before you start the whole process you must decide where you are 
going to do
that join. Start above that join (this doesn't have to be pretty as you are 
going to cut
it off) and the 'rule' is to do one repeat above and one repeat below the 
join. (see lassen 2)
I have always used the finest thread I can get my hands on because I want 
the
join to be as close to invisible as possible. Doing three wraps around each 
pair
thickens up the area so the finer the better in my mind. Another thing to 
consider
is areas that are easier to do that join in. Avoid half stitch areas like 
the plague.
Linen is not much better. Ground is the best and around or along a gimp line 
is
also good.
I really do like this technique although it is not (as far as I know) 
attached to
a particular type of lace. I would also suggest that you try it with a 
thinner
piece of torchon lace first to get the hang of it. Flanders lends itself to 
this
and I have had much success with it there.
Does this make sense or just muddy the water further?
Good luck!
bobbi
===
What I am still trying to understand, though, is that once the extra piece
of lace is cut away, what is there to keep it looking neat over time (i.e.
not have a frayed edge)?

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen 2.jpg]

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Fw: Re: Re[2]: [lace] Lassen question

[suebabbs385]

Bobbi's diagrams are now posted on the arachne flickr site.  Go to link
at bottom of email to see them

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 
lassen 2.jpg]

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Kathleen Harris]

The stitching is very close and tight, so I think there is no chance of fraying 
 over time, as long as the treatment of the lace is reasonably gentle as it 
always should be.

Kathleen, in a hot and humid Berkshire, UK, expecting thunder any minute!

Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Jun 2019, at 12:32, Karen ZM  wrote:
> 
> Interesting to follow the discussion on lassen.
> 
> What I am still trying to understand, though, is that once the extra piece
> of lace is cut away, what is there to keep it looking neat over time (i.e.
> not have a frayed edge)?
> 
> Karen in Malta
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

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[lace] Lassen question

[Alice Howell]

The overlapped section will not fray.  With every millimeter  of the lace 
threads tightly wrapped, there's no way any of the threads can move.  If a 
thread gets cut, then it would loosen, but that's an extreme case.  Normal use 
will not loosen it.

The first time you do it, it is a bit scary to cut off the two ends. Just do it 
very carefully -- one thread at a time.

As Bobbi said, choosing the pathway to sew across the lace is important.  You 
want to use a solid line, not open work. It's sort of like selecting a place on 
a pattern to start -- along the edge of the design. Whether you are 
overlapping, or tying and sewing in ends, the finishing method is best hidden 
along design edges.

Alice in Oregon

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[lace] Wedding lace

[Adele Shaak]

Good morning! I’ve got a question:

Does anybody know anything about antique wedding lace?

I have a piece of Duchesse lace that is approx. 13 inches (33 cm) square. It is 
filled with flowers and other motifs that have to do with weddings and 
fertility. So, I’m pretty sure it was used as part of the wedding ceremony, BUT 
- gee, it seems awfully big to be a “wedding handkerchief” which is what the 
label said it was. Also, the  motifs are fine Duchesse bobbin lace, but they 
are joined together with a simple needle-lace background of regularly-spaced 
buttonhole stitches, that is made with a thicker thread. So, a comparatively 
heavy openwork net. That doesn’t say “handkerchief” to me.

This piece might actually be a handkerchief, and perhaps the size of wedding 
hankies has changed over the 100+ years since my piece was made. However, I 
have a niggling suspicion that it might not have originally been a hankie at 
all. I have heard of chalice covers and I’m thinking it might be that, or maybe 
even something else. I don’t know much about traditional European religious 
ceremonies, and for all I know it might even have come from a Jewish marriage 
ceremony - I have *no* idea what that ceremony uses.

The symbology is secular: roses and chrysanthemums, etc, so it could be 
anything. Or it could just be a hankie and I’m overthinking this. It is the 
size and the net background that is making me think twice.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Adele

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[lace] Re Honiton? Beds?

[Ann Humphreys]

How do I find this link please
Ann

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RE: [lace] Wedding lace

[Devon Thein]

Maybe the cover of a ring pillow?
Devon

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Re: [lace] Re Honiton? Beds?

[Devon Thein]

http://laceioli.ning.com/groups/group/show?groupUrl=identification-history&xg_source=activity&id=6475898%3AGroup%3A208&page=1#comments


You will have to scroll through two pages of comments to get to the photos.
Devon


>
>

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Re: [lace] Wedding lace

[H M Clarke]

Hi Adele,

That does sound like an oversize lady’s handkerchief, even today. My ‘antique’ 
hankies are far smaller, less than half the dimensions including significant 
amounts of lace. 

As for the wedding part of it, I was not aware of any such tradition until I 
emigrated and found local lacemakers. It is not something that played any part 
of any wedding I went to or heard about. Before anyone contradicts me, I would 
explain that I come from peasant stock almost entirely from East Anglia in 
England so cannot comment about other regions or more posh weddings. Then 
again, I have no recollection of wedding handkerchiefs being mentioned during 
any of the British royal weddings either. As a cynic, I would suggest that the 
wedding tag was to attract extra attention to the piece :-/

I would be interested in reading about the experiences in other parts of the 
world as well as identification of Adele’s treasure. 

Regards, Helen in Adele’s part of the world 

> On Jun 23, 2019, at 10:18, Adele Shaak  wrote:
> 
> 

> Does anybody know anything about antique wedding lace?
> 
> I have a piece of Duchesse lace that is approx. 13 inches (33 cm) square.

> 

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Re[5]: [lace] Lassen question

[suebabbs385]

Bobbi's diagrams are on the photostream of our Flickr site

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/

The link for this is shown at the foot of all Arachne emails.  No
password is needed to see this site

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

-- Original Message --
From: "Lorri Ferguson" 
To: "suebabbs...@gmail.com" 
Sent: 6/23/2019 1:07:32 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re[2]: [lace] Lassen question

>I was unable to see "Bobbi's diagrams", can you give a 'link' to where
>they are & send it privately?
>
>Lorri Ferguson
>  lorri...@msn.com
>
>

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Re[7]: [lace] Lassen question

[suebabbs385]

Are you all looking at the photostream in Arachne's flickr account?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/  On my screen they show up as
the first two photographs.  I did not add them to Bobbi's album

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

--

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Re: Re[7]: [lace] Lassen question

[Bev Walker]

To help: At the top of the first page, beside the tab Albums, see the tab
Photostream.

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 1:54 PM  wrote:

> Are you all looking at the photostream in Arachne's flickr account?
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/  On my screen they show up as
> the first two photographs.  I did not add them to Bobbi's album
>
> Sue
>
> suebabbs...@gmail.com
>
> --
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to
> arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
>
-- 
Sent from my iPod

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Fwd: [lace] Wedding lace

[Adele Shaak]

I have uploaded a photo of the “wedding handkerchief” to the Vancouver
Lace Club website:

https://vanlaceclub.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/weddinglace1.jpg


It’s not up on Flickr; I couldn’t figure out how to do that.

Adele


> On Jun 23, 2019, at 12:57 PM, H M Clarke mailto:hcl...@mac.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Adele,
>
> That does sound like an oversize lady’s handkerchief, even today. My
‘antique’ hankies are far smaller, less than half the dimensions including
significant amounts of lace.
>
> As for the wedding part of it, I was not aware of any such tradition until I
emigrated and found local lacemakers. It is not something that played any part
of any wedding I went to or heard about. Before anyone contradicts me, I would
explain that I come from peasant stock almost entirely from East Anglia in
England so cannot comment about other regions or more posh weddings. Then
again, I have no recollection of wedding handkerchiefs being mentioned during
any of the British royal weddings either. As a cynic, I would suggest that the
wedding tag was to attract extra attention to the piece :-/
>
> I would be interested in reading about the experiences in other parts of the
world as well as identification of Adele’s treasure.
>
> Regards, Helen in Adele’s part of the world

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Karen ZM]

Thanks for the reply.
Karen in Malta


>
>

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Re: [lace] Lassen question

[Karen ZM]

Thanks Bobbi. and I also have the diagrams attached. I will print your
message with the diagrams to keep for future reference.

Karen in Malta


>
>

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[lace] Flanders example from "Het Lassen"

[Bev Walker]

Hello everyone

I have uploaded to Flikr two photos of a Flanders edging I made from "Het
Lassen" . They are in the Photostream section also. Although of a circular
edging, I hope they compliment Bobbi's diagram - the lace beginning and end
were done exactly as she describes.

The hand-sewing part I haven't done yet but would follow the ground outside
the ringed motif, and stitch as shown in Bobbi's second diagram.

If I recall correctly, this pattern and one other round edging are in the
"Het Lassen" publication. After learning how, I decided to pass it along -
if someone can confirm that Het Lassen is the pattern source, that would be
great.
-- 
Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of
Canada

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Re: [lace] Wedding lace

[Alice Howell]

 It's lovely.  Hankies used to be much larger than they are today.  It could
have been a wedding hanky.  It took a lot of work to make, and should be for
a special occasion.  I can believe it to be wedding hanky but I have no proof
of it.
Alice in Oregon

On Sunday, June 23, 2019, 10:22:25 AM PDT, Adele Shaak 
wrote:

 Good morning! I’ve got a question:

Does anybody know anything about antique wedding lace?

I have a piece of Duchesse lace that is approx. 13 inches (33 cm) square. It
is filled with flowers and other motifs that have to do with weddings and
fertility. So, I’m pretty sure it was used as part of the wedding ceremony,
BUT - gee, it seems awfully big to be a “wedding handkerchief” which is
what the label said it was. Also, the  motifs are fine Duchesse bobbin lace,
but they are joined together with a simple needle-lace background of
regularly-spaced buttonhole stitches, that is made with a thicker thread. So,
a comparatively heavy openwork net. That doesn’t say “handkerchief” to
me.

This piece might actually be a handkerchief, and perhaps the size of wedding
hankies has changed over the 100+ years since my piece was made. However, I
have a niggling suspicion that it might not have originally been a hankie at
all. I have heard of chalice covers and I’m thinking it might be that, or
maybe even something else. I don’t know much about traditional European
religious ceremonies, and for all I know it might even have come from a Jewish
marriage ceremony - I have *no* idea what that ceremony uses.

The symbology is secular: roses and chrysanthemums, etc, so it could be
anything. Or it could just be a hankie and I’m overthinking this. It is the
size and the net background that is making me think twice.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Adele

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RE: [lace] Wedding lace

[Annette Meldrum]

The handkerchief as we know it is in fact only around 400 years old. It was
said to be the idea of a Venetian lady to cut a square out of pure flax and
decorate the edges with lace. From Italy, it soon crossed the Alps to France
and the court of Henry II. 
Handkerchiefs of this period were usually adorned with embroidery and were
objects of great luxury and a showy dress item, carried in the hand rather
than tucked into a pocket. Many portraits show handkerchiefs flowing from
the hand.

Antique examples were extremely large,15-20" of fabric. Smaller items are
usually described as chalice covers.
http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/215260?sortBy=Relevance&ft
shows a handkerchief 15inches square.

Annette Meldrum in a rainy, South Coast NSW, Australia
-Original Message-
Alice Howell
 It's lovely.B  Hankies used to be much larger than they are today.B  It
could have been a wedding hanky.B  It took a lot of work to make, and should
be for a special occasion.B  I can believe it to be wedding hanky but I have
no proof of it.
Alice in Oregon

   

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Re: [lace] Wedding lace

[H M Clarke]

I would be the last person to suggest that I have any more knowledge than the 
rest of you. That doesn’t stop me pretending sometimes so here goes ...

I would like to put the idea out there that many of the antique handkerchiefs 
were used by men. Their fashions were more ornate and eye catching than their 
female equivalents. A gentleman would have a larger handkerchief or it could be 
a kerchief. Even when ladies were happily waving their handkerchief in their 
hand, it was fully unfolded and so maybe smaller than we imagine? Also, have I 
missed a reference to wedding handkerchiefs being a real thing in olden times? 
I certainly have not seen Alice’s message on this topic. 

End of my tuppence worth (we got rid of our ‘penny’ years ago but my old 
country still has theirs). 

Helen. 

> Antique examples were extremely large,15-20" of fabric. Smaller items are
> usually described as chalice covers.
> http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/215260?sortBy=Relevance&ft
> shows a handkerchief 15inches square.
> 
> Annette Meldrum in a rainy, South Coast NSW, Australia

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